Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[Stuttgart88]

The silence is an extension of the traditional schoolboy ethos of being respectful. A lot of rugby's traditions and practices have their roots in school playing fields and competitions and have been perpetuated even into the 21st century because the sport only recently adopted professionalism. Even the late adoption of professionalism is a reflection on how keen rugby was to maintain its connection to its traditional roots in the schools and as a sport played by well-heeled professional types. These standards are dropping now that professionalism has taken hold, but there is still a large legacy of the amateur ethos - which they should be proud of. Of course the powers that run the game seem intent on over-selling their game as a TV commodity without much in the way of downstream redistribution, despite witnessing how football changed by doing the same thing.

I think Owls Fan was somewhat right too though. The silence is also a way of showing that rugby crowds are different to football / GAA / Rugby League crowds, but it'd be a bit paranoid to say that that is ALL the silence represents, and that football is the only target. However, the implication that there is something wrong with intimidating an opponent doesn't hold for me. As with everything, it's a question of degrees. Passionate fervour and doing everything you can to be the 12th man doesn't have to include foul-mouthed abuse etc. Thankfully Irish football crowds are pretty respectful and often quite witty. That's one thing that I really love about football over rugby. While some chants are clearly disrespectful, you'd never get a rugby crowd chanting something like "we shoot burg-u-lars"* or even the variation of the Steve Gerrard song sung by City fans "...he fell on his effing @rse, he gave it to Djemba Ba...". I also loved "Lasagne, woa oh, Lasagne wow oh oh oh, we laughed ourselves to bits when Tottenham got the sh1ts...". Some disrespect can actually be fun.


* Norwich City fans, after a Norfolk farmer dominated the headlines for shooting an intruder. I loved it.

[punkrocket]

I have to echo what Danny says about rugby up north where there's an extra layer of division between rugby elites and the likes of your average Derry City fan (a healthy social mix). Most rugby playing in the north is done at state grammar schools where the pupils by and large come from middle class and protestant/unionist backgrounds, entry into which is either by academic testing or in some cases by fee paying. Those (protestant) pupils who don't go to grammar schools at post primary level go to what were once called the intermediate colleges, and where football (for boys) would mostly be played. Catholic schools play a mix of football and gaelic sports although in a strange way the snobbishness surrounding football can often be seen as well with a lot of middle class kids/parents sticking to the gah. In some catholic schools efforts are beginning to be made to introduce rugby but this is in it's infancy and hasn't really caught on to any large degree. This move hasn't been reflected by state schools adopting gaelic sports. Some in the integrated sector are beginning belatedly to try camogie etc. but many, like Grosvenor Grammar, are still sticking to what they have always done which kinda undermines their supposed cross community ethos.
The Ulster team's support largely grows out of this mindset which although catholics have been turning up at games in increasing numbers is still largely elitist unionist in outlook. The Ulster banner is still to be seen at ravenhill although the Ulster provincial flag is appearing more so these days (and is always zoomed in on by the on message BBC coverage). Just look at the colours they play in, it ain't red and yellow. I remember when Ulster won the Heineken Cup there were reports of returning Ulster supporters coming under attack by the natives of the markets (a working class republican area beside Central station) and the bewilderment that this caused them. It didn't occur to them that the flags that they were waving in such numbers were usually to be seen hanging from lamposts in loyalist areas and which represented the old Stormont regime and that such a display could easily be miscontrued by the locals. I don't think, for the majority of the fans, that it was an intended provocative action but shows their misplaced sense of entitlement and just how out of touch rugby fans can sometimes be.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/integrated-pioneers-to-field-gaa-teams-1383922

http://www.grosvenorgrammarschool.org.uk/extracurricular/

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/nov/26/northernireland.schools

[Gather round]

I remember when Ulster won the Heineken Cup there were reports of returning Ulster supporters coming under attack by the natives of the markets (a working class republican area beside Central station) and the bewilderment that this caused them

Aye. No often how often it happens, it's still a shock.

Basically, thugs living beside station wanton attack harmless drunk fans leaving train. You do the locals no favors by condoning them.

I endured a similar attack when a shaven-headed Celtic shirt-wearing lout threw a half brick at me by the corner of Oxford Street. He was no more than six or seven years old, luckily for me if not his future chances of avoiding prison. I wasn't carrying or wearing any symbols that might have offended him (or more likely slightly older brothers etc.).

The rugby-playing school I attended with occasional foot.ie poster Not Brazil* first organised a football team in 2012. Rugby union began in 1868

* Meeting him this weekend for a drink, will pass on regards

[DannyInvincible]

I endured a similar attack when a shaven-headed Celtic shirt-wearing lout threw a half brick at me by the corner of Oxford Street. He was no more than six or seven years old, luckily for me if not his future chances of avoiding prison. I wasn't carrying or wearing any symbols that might have offended him (or more likely slightly older brothers etc.).

Hoods doing what hoods do, isn't it? Derry City fans have gotten similar in places like loyal New Buildings over the years. Police escorts and detours have been necessary for Setanta Cup games. Not that Brandywell hoods don't cause trouble for football visitors either, irrespective of where they're from or what their background might be.

Actually, I was on the number 33 Bus Éireann from Derry to Dublin a few years ago going through New Buildings when a group of youngsters (at least one was wearing a Rangers top) in a field by the road-side (conveniently full of junk) noticed the bus stopped at the traffic lights and proceeded throw small rocks and wooden planks at it. Thankfully, none of their missiles actually reached the windows of the bus, but was still kind of shocking that simply the sight of the word "Éireann" spontaneously provoked such carry-on. Who knows why they were just standing in a field full of junk in the first place... I always felt a bit safer on the Ulsterbus 274. They used to salute that with Union flags in a guard of honour when we passed through! :p


The rugby-playing school I attended with occasional foot.ie poster Not Brazil* first organised a football team in 2012. Rugby union began in 1868

* Meeting him this weekend for a drink, will pass on regards

He hasn't been in here in a while, has he? Pass on my regards and tell him to pop over. :)

[Spudulika]

I will check, but I remember a stat back in the early 2000's about the number of Catholics who had played for Ulster, it was miniscule. David McWilliams father-in-law is a rugby supporter, but gave up going to Ravenhill when he had to listen to torrent of (in his words) "sick, vile, sectarian abuse" of Leinster players. He's Protestant and his kids went to Academy (I think) but he just couldn't understand the hatred.

It was interesting to see the lack of attention given to Frampton and other boxers in the recent past (especially in the professional ranks). It could be that fights are not on Irish terrestrial tv/radio, it could be snobbery, it could be just a disconnect. Given that MMA gets enough coverage (despite being a wee bit dubous) I don't know if it is a class thing.

Tennis is hardly a sport for ruffians, but it doesn't get much mention outside of big wins/results (barely).

Osarusan and a couple of other ex-Maynooth hands can remember when we staged a number of big boxing events out in the Pull Pit, the first ever women's amateur boxing match and an Ireland-Scotland fixture. We got decent media coverage, but the main problem lay in the relationship with the governing body (at the time) with the media. It was remarked on three occasions to me that some of the officers were "a bunch of gurriers/knackers". One of the people who said this to me was a former class mate from UCD. In some ways I wonder is this just the prevailing relationship in the Irish media. And I question this in relation to the Irish media's sketchy relationship with the LOI and Irish soccer in general.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness, we play professional rugby at the very top end of the game, both at "club" level and international level. And let's not get snobby about our provinces not being real clubs. Only two countries in world rugby have "real" clubs because only two countries in the world have a single TV market big enough to support a decent pro league. Maybe also Japan?

Rugby fills a perfect gap for the Irish. It is big time enough to be sexy, it is international enough to yield external recognition. And we're good at it.

But is there a different attitude to coverage of the national rugby team versus our football team football in our media? Absolutely there is.

Even my rugby mates are a bit alarmed at the media attention at the moment and think it's OTT. Let's face it though, if there was a world championships for bandwagons we'd own the trophy in perpetuity.

[DeLorean]

Balls.ie must have had a least seven different pieces, this week, taking issue with comments and selections from the Rugby world analysising the current Irish team. Talk about small c*ck syndrome. It's great that we're doing well, just enjoy it. Who cares if we don't get 100% of the credit we arguably deserve from outside. There are probably plenty teams we haven't given enough credit either because you're never as fussed about other nation's 'golden era'.

[Charlie Darwin]

Balls.ie must have had a least seven different pieces this week taking issue with comments and selections from the Rugby world analysising the current Irish team. Talk about small c*ck syndrome. It's great that we're doing well, just enjoy it. Who cares if we don't get 100% of the credit we arguably deserve from outside. There are probably plenty teams we haven't given enough credit either because you're never as fussed about other nation's 'golden era'.
We're talking about a site that churns out "how English twitter reacted to" whatever vaguely Irish ****e we've foisted upon the world.

[punkrocket]

You do the locals no favors by condoning them.



And I'm afraid that you do yourself no favours by this silly trolling.
When I was a wee boy I went with my daddy to Seaview and we parked the car on the Shore Rd across the road from the ground a bit closer in towards town and were walking up to the ground, no club scarves or anything just a couple of wee boys walking along holding their daddy's hand excited about the game when a brick came down form the high ground to the left of us. I'm sure you know the place well GR it's maybe 40 or 50ft above the level of Shore Rd, it landed just in front of us on the footpath what would that have done to one of us if it had have been a few feet closer? I assume it was thrown by a local, it was wrong then, it was wrong in 1999 and it's wrong now.
Condone my @rse

[tetsujin1979]

We're talking about a site that churns out "how English twitter reacted to" whatever vaguely Irish ****e we've foisted upon the world.
balls.ie is buzzfeed for sports
and I hate buzzfeed

[Gather round]

And I'm afraid that you do yourself no favours by this silly trolling

You justified a thuggish, unprovoked attack because of the unionist victims' presumed privilege compared to their working class nationalist assailants. I merely pointed out that thuggish unprovoked attacks are wrong. Whether on the Shore Road, the Markets, New Buildings or anywhere else.

And spare us the whataboutery, please.

[punkrocket]

I did nothing of the sort, but it betrays your own biases to take that from what I wrote.

[osarusan]

Only two countries in world rugby have "real" clubs because only two countries in the world have a single TV market big enough to support a decent pro league. Maybe also Japan?


No, the league is filled with teams affiliated with, run by, and sponsored by companies - it is basically a vanity exercise.

Because our children went to the same school, I got to know a Kiwi who was at the time the head strength and consitioning coach of the Suntory SunGoliath (Suntory is a big beer and whiskey company here), and is now the head training coach of the Kintetsu Liners - he detailed the level of sponsorship involved and how the companies make up a pretty massive shortfall in income.

I think that in the Top League, every team is owned by a company, and the team name includes the company name (as above). It is run on much the same system that the football J-League had the foresight to abandon about 15 years ago, when they forbade companies from owning clubs (more than 50% of clubs, I think) to ensure that clubs were not simply the playthings of the company.

[DeLorean]

It's kind of tragic that you'd never really hear of the likes of Cork Con, Shannon, Garryowen and those anymore. Do they even read out the results on the news? I haven't heard anything relating to them in years. Sports Stadium were always good for a live game back in the day. Even the rugby dominated 'Off The Ball' don't really mention the All Ireland league as far as I'm aware.

[Stuttgart88]

I used to love the late afternoon Sports Stadium rugby highlights, even if Fred Cogley's Mary's featured a bit too prominently.

There's a thread on the score.ie / 42.ie now about World Rugby proclaiming some revolutionary action by bringing the LGBT rugby federation under its wing, and by proclaiming that it has taken the lead over other sports. Yet another example of rugby feeling the need to take a pop at other sports while giving itself a pat on the back. Plenty of other sports, including football for what it's worth, have taken big strides in addressing LGBT issues. Gay World Cup in Football, Dublin Devils FC, World Gay Games...

[Gather round]

I did nothing of the sort, but it betrays your own biases to take that from what I wrote

How's that? The only 'bias' I've mentioned in this thread is against unprovoked thuggery.

I don't have a bias against either rugby union (just ignore it) or Irish nationalism (willing to argue it on merits :) )

[Wolfman]

Yawn.

[NeverFeltBetter]

It's kind of tragic that you'd never really hear of the likes of Cork Con, Shannon, Garryowen and those anymore. Do they even read out the results on the news? I haven't heard anything relating to them in years. Sports Stadium were always good for a live game back in the day. Even the rugby dominated 'Off The Ball' don't really mention the All Ireland league as far as I'm aware.

Same. I remember, in my pre-teen years, seeing that level of rugby on the TV all the time, and the final was always a big deal (of course, growing up in Limerick might have been a factor). It used to be a league/knock-out system right? I definitely remember suffering through one of the finals, probably involving Shannon, that finished something like 6-3 or 9-6, but can't find records anywhere online. But that league seems to get less attention than the LOI now.

[CraftyToePoke]

It's kind of tragic that you'd never really hear of the likes of Cork Con, Shannon, Garryowen and those anymore. Do they even read out the results on the news? I haven't heard anything relating to them in years. Sports Stadium were always good for a live game back in the day. Even the rugby dominated 'Off The Ball' don't really mention the All Ireland league as far as I'm aware.

Remember that too, great memories and the club names stick in the mind too. You have to scan the small print for the AIL results now.

[punkrocket]

Cabinteely relegate rugby to the inside sports pages in this weekends IT, the worm has turned.

[shakermaker1982]

I live in England which as you all know is a football mad country.

When the 6 Nations comes around it's pretty much front page on any newspaper sports pull out whether that is the Times, Guardian, Telegraph etc. The Sun and Mirror will do big articles if England are going well.....doesn't mean the whole of the British public are talking about the 6 Nations but most people will watch it on to even if they haven't got a clue what is going on.

Once the tournament is over then normality resumes and football will take over until the World Cup in September.

The Irish rugby team are successful and we have quality players so why shouldn't the press make a big deal out of it? Articles on Munster, Leinster, O'Connell, Schmidt are probably going to get more clicks online than articles on Glenn Whelan, O'Shea and co. They can just buy in the stuff from the British writers to cover United, Liverpool and Mourinho

We aren't producing top class players, until we do the press aren't going to be that interested in banging the football drum I'm afraid. If Roy Keane does something crazy then no doubt they'll do a 14 page spread but I'm sure we'll get a decent bit of exposure when the Polish game comes around.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree Shaker, but still I think the press goes overboard both directions sometimes and judge the performance of each team by different criteria. The 2000s was a golden era for Irish rugby yet they totally underperformed in terms of Slams snd 6N success (look at what Wales achieved...) but a few facile wins over a cyclically weak England team had everyone happy. The football team was there or thereabouts, bar Stan, during the same era but were tagged as losers, or cowards (Indo).*

Trap's tactics bored people to death and had the press up in arms, yet Schmidt's current tactics bore me to death yet are heralded as genius. Make no mistake, there was more justification for pragmatic tactics given Trap's resources compared to what Joe currently has at his disposal.

* if you look at where we finished in any qualification group over the 2000s and compared it to the rugby team's 6N finishing position, the results were pretty similar.

[Gather round]

if you look at where we finished in any qualification group over the 2000s and compared it to the rugby team's 6N finishing position, the results were pretty similar

Hardly comparing like with like. You don't face Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Spain in every football qualifying group, or Kazakhstan and Gibraltar in the 6N.

Over here, the Daily Telegraph gives RU extensive coverage all year round and regardless of where we are in their World Cup cycle. Their core readership has always been disproportionately interested in the game. It's a price to pay for their generally good coverage of other sports.

[Stuttgart88]

Hardly comparing like with like. You don't face Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Spain in every football qualifying group, or Kazakhstan and Gibraltar in the 6N.
I think it's close enough of a comparison. The likes of Gib don't affect the outcome of any group, but the likes of Cyprus can do what Italy do by getting a win or two every campaign. If anything a rugby group is easier for Ireland as there isn't that big a gap - if anything there's a negative gap if you know what I mean - between the best teams and us. In football that gap us usually huge. 2nd is the best we can ever aspire to in football.

[DeLorean]

Is it just me or has the build up to the Wales game been pretty tame, given what's at stake?! It's the day after tomorrow and I had practically forgotten about it, only that I saw the team announcement there.

[BonnieShels]

Joe has infiltrated the nation to sampler expectations.

[tetsujin1979]

Good article from Ken Early today about the differences in popularity of rugby and football, and the treatment of players by fans and the media: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/soccer-feeling-like-unloved-child-in-tale-of-two-sports-1.2156535
He touched on some of the points raised here on the second captains podcast on Thursday

[DannyInvincible]

Good read, that, and something much needed in the mainstream Irish media.

There's Kyle again:


Our soccer players are rubbish, gutless miserable , whinging jackdaws. They shouldn't be allowed near Lansdowne Rd until they start winning matches or at least turning up for them. There's a good pitch out in Donabate they can use. As for the FAI the article nicely sums up the failures of that Mafiosi type cartel. Thank you.

Finbar completely misses the argument:


So this piece is from a member of the media criticising bias from the media?! Apart from the fairly crass naval-gazing, what a nonsense of an article! The technical difficulty and physical risk in being a professional rugby player is in a different league to being a professional footballer. This guy always sounds like he's desperate to appear "real" and smacks of a middle-class boy pretending he's working-class in orderto gain credibility. Think inverted snobbery is what they call it. Maybe if our football team won something they'd deserve more support.

Of course, Early made clear why winning something is that little bit more difficult for our football team; they play in a global sport. Not that our support should ever be dependent on winning anyway. We support Ireland because we're Irish; not when the next bandwagon comes along. And, as Early points out, attitudes to rugby losses differ very much to reactions to football losses anyway.

Is it true that rugby is more technically difficult? I've never played the game properly, bar us once having a stab at it during a PE session back in St. Columb's, but I never got the impression it would be that difficult to master; catch egg, hold egg tight, run forward, throw egg back... And repeat ad infinitum! :p

[Stuttgart88]

No, rugby is not more technically difficult. Sure John Hayes never played the game before 18 and went on to become a legend. The IRFU is scouting successful athletes from other sports, throwers, sprinters etc. If rugby was as technically difficult there is no way you could take up the sport late and succeed. There is a young lad on the fringes of the first XV at Connacht who didn't make the grade as a footballer in England. He has relatively little rugby experience.

Rogers and Wenger both say that in soccer if you haven't got the skill by 11 it's too late. But in rugby you can take it up late and as long as you're coordinated, strong and quick you can still succeed.

The spatial awareness to succeed in football is on a different plane to what is needed by 12 or more rugby playets on a team. Only at 10 and centre, in my opinion, is superior spatial awareness a real asset. In rugby you rarely need to "watch your house" because the game is mainly played in front of you and if you get stuck for an option in possession you can just kick it upfield (like our soccer players do!) or take the hit.

I was in school with rugby internationals. I always feel that tells a story. If all it takes is to be the best in a school like mine to have a chance, the playing universe can't be that big!

This isn't a dig at rugby, just a riposte to the nonsense quoted above.

And Early is absolutely right. It's incredibly difficult to even become a mediocre footballer in the overall scheme of things.

[paul_oshea]

Great post stutts. put that up on the comments section good detail in it.sure even think how competitive rugby union was/is in Australia and they've always been a top 3-5 team. that lock who started playing at 18 and made his debut at 22.can you imagine a Spanish soccer player or Germany or Brazilian taking up soccer at 18 they wouldn't get near their top division never mind anything else.

In rugby when they say technical they don't relate it directly to skill in the same as American football. But what I find funny in gaelic and rugby is the stick they use to beat soccer with turned the other way is why soccer is a far better sport because it's oriented towards skill not size and/or strength. If any sport that you can play against any size individual and still be better at it than any of them then that's surely the best, most skillful, most technical sport.

[bennocelt]

Well put Stutts, agree 100%
Tried rugby twice before. In college where no one would pass to me, perhaps I had the wrong accent. Unlike the football guys who were great craic.
And later on got into it for a few months. Was tough, and was full of bruises, but found the game itself terrible boring to play, and feck all running about. (edit: perhaps that was just me!)

[Fixer82]

No, rugby is not more technically difficult. Sure John Hayes never played the game before 18 and went on to become a legend. The IRFU is scouting successful athletes from other sports, throwers, sprinters etc. If rugby was as technically difficult there is no way you could take up the sport late and succeed. There is a young lad on the fringes of the first XV at Connacht who didn't make the grade as a footballer in England. He has relatively little rugby experience.

Rogers and Wenger both say that in soccer if you haven't got the skill by 11 it's too late. But in rugby you can take it up late and as long as you're coordinated, strong and quick you can still succeed.

The spatial awareness to succeed in football is on a different plane to what is needed by 12 or more rugby playets on a team. Only at 10 and centre, in my opinion, is superior spatial awareness a real asset. In rugby you rarely need to "watch your house" because the game is mainly played in front of you and if you get stuck for an option in possession you can just kick it upfield (like our soccer players do!) or take the hit.

I was in school with rugby internationals. I always feel that tells a story. If all it takes is to be the best in a school like mine to have a chance, the playing universe can't be that big!

This isn't a dig at rugby, just a riposte to the nonsense quoted above.

And Early is absolutely right. It's incredibly difficult to even become a mediocre footballer in the overall scheme of things.

Have to agree. I think of the 4 main sports on this island, rugby is probably the easiest for athletes to find a role in and adapt to. ie he's fast, stick him on the wing. Couldn't get away with that in soccer, football or hurling.

[DannyInvincible]

Tried rugby twice before. In college where no one would pass to me, perhaps I had the wrong accent. Unlike the football guys who were great craic.

Where did you go to college, if you don't mind me asking? And what accent do you have? I've always thought you were from Belfast, but maybe mistaken?

[bennocelt]

Maynooth, apparently the same time as Spud! Mullingar bog accent and proud!!

[Stuttgart88]

There's more of it on the42.ie. Usual overpaid prima donna cliches. There's a lot both to admire and dislike in pretty much every sport.

[DeLorean]

This reminds me of the counter productive, Government generated civil war between public and private sector workers. It's just so pointless. I almost find myself thinking 'yeah, take that ye rugby b@stards!' when somebody makes a good point favouring soccer. Then I remember I feel nothing but pride and happiness when the rugby team have days like last Saturday and will hopefully have again next October. It really is a senseless battle and one that should be left to the mentally unstable, like Mr. Minogue. The more successful (or striving to be successful) teams and individuals we have to get behind and support on the international stage the better. I don't think anybody felt the need to say "but soccer is way bigger" when Katie Taylor was picking up her Olympic gold or countless other medals. People are entitled to have whatever opinion or preferences they like and if they don't feel an emotional attachment to certain sports or teams, fair enough, but I don't understand how they feel the need to passionately express their disdain.

[paul_oshea]

Munster v connacht on the news before Ireland European qualifiers. 3rd item on sports news.

crucial match tomorrow. thats ridiculous

[abcd]

I love seeing all Irish teams doing well and I follow a variety of sports but there are a few points I think are relevant. Its an interesting article but there is a much wider backdrop to this than just the national team.

First point that I think is relevant is that any time I heard Ken Early on the radio he did little to hide his disdain for League of Ireland football. When I listened to the show on Newstalk there would be a football show for an hour every evening on top of any other soccer discussions during the first two hours of the show. There would be a League of Ireland segment shoved into 10 or 15 minutes on a Wednesday night which always ended up being a rushed job. Now obviously that is reflective of people's interests but any time LOI was even mentioned it would be glossed over by Ken Early. I'd imagine he'd struggle to name more than a couple of players in the league. So to see him making some of these points is a bit ironic.

Soccer is bigger than rugby in terms of people's interest and playing numbers but in terms of a basis for support its almost completely premier league focused. If you ask a lot of people who follow soccer they'll say I hate the international breaks, can't wait for the league and champions league to restart. Multiples of the gate receipts for League of Ireland matches or Ireland friendly matches are spent going over to England every week. People are interested in soccer but don't want to waste their evening/weekend and money watching the poor quality fare being served by the Irish team.

If you are completely honest when was the last time you enjoyed rather than endured an Ireland game.

Ireland is a bandwagon country in general and that has helped rugby but the provincial teams being setup and competing in the league and europe gives people access to good standard games in their local area and creates the kind of tiered approach that helps generate a good core support for the sport.

Also an international used to genuinely be an occasion and something to look forward to. A decade or so ago you wouldn't have got into even a friendly at Landsdowne Road and it was a big event but the decline in our fortunes couple with the rise of other sports and lets be honest the overall decline in interest in international football haven't helped. For years attendances at Ireland's games compared very favourably to other countries. The decline in interest has hit here as well. Let's be honest we are in the 30s now probably in terms of teams in Europe. There is no-one really with whom fans can relate. We haven't beaten any serious team in a competitive match in years and we haven't beaten any proper team away from home (you could argue France) in almost 30 years.

I'm hopeful we can get a result tomorrow. It would be great to get everyone behind the team again.

[Stuttgart88]

We were talking about this in the pub earlier. Had the Murray / Zebo "double tag" incident been two of our footballers would the media / public reaction been the same? My ar$e. Moral decay / overpaid prima donnas blah blah blah more like. Essentially: knackers are judged differently.

I'm told that the natural response to this is to be labelled a reverse snob. I'd be happy to debate that.

And in the interest of fairness, what Murray and Zebo did is well and truly up to them and I'm not passing judgment.

[Charlie Darwin]

What people do in privacy is their own business but there were elements of that situation that I'm honestly shocked weren't investigated more. IRFU shut that one down very effectively.

[paul_oshea]

http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/victory-would-capture-hearts-of-the-public-31102342.html

more of the same from fanning today.

[Paddy Garcia]

Munster v connacht on the news before Ireland European qualifiers. 3rd item on sports news.

crucial match tomorrow. thats ridiculous

I heard it was a great game alright, & very entertaining.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/liam-brady-i-was-threatened-with-expulsion-for-playing-soccer-for-ireland-instead-of-gaa-in-school-31113319.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/liam-brady-i-was-threatened-with-expulsion-for-playing-soccer-for-ireland-instead-of-gaa-in-school-31113319.html)

Liam Brady was threatened with expulsion for playing soccer for Ireland instead of GAA in school.

[Charlie Darwin]

And rightly so.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hHGQk8itk9I/Rei-J70phfI/AAAAAAAAAFE/IrH4dIMG5jw/s320/foreign%2Bgames.bmp

[tetsujin1979]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/liam-brady-i-was-threatened-with-expulsion-for-playing-soccer-for-ireland-instead-of-gaa-in-school-31113319.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/liam-brady-i-was-threatened-with-expulsion-for-playing-soccer-for-ireland-instead-of-gaa-in-school-31113319.html)

Liam Brady was threatened with expulsion for playing soccer for Ireland instead of GAA in school.Independent somewhat behind the times with this one, it was discussed in the second episode of "Green is the Colour" before Euro 2012
The second episode is here: https://vimeo.com/42763927
and the discussion of Brady's treatment is at the 36 minute mark

[DannyInvincible]

https://vimeo.com/42763927

I think he might have personal issues with viewing that link. :p

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

“I think the biggest thing, and people won’t be happy, are rugby and Gaelic Games. The rugby men are doing so well, got success, picking up trophies and boys might be saying: ‘I’ll have some of that.’ And when you see the scenes in Donegal when a team comes back with the Sam Maguire, you can understand.

“I played Gaelic and soccer when I was growing up, no hurling. I trained with Donegal one evening up in Convoy last summer, and they train three or four nights a week. The intensity, the physical input in the session was phenomenal, there’s no way the next night they could have trained for a soccer team because their legs would have been wrecked.
“Their fitness levels have gone up. They’re machines, so it’s more difficult than it was to go 50/50. You’ve to focus on one sport and they’re going Gaelic. The rugby’s taking a few as well. Not so much in Donegal, but down the country.

“In Convoy they were building a new training centre, in the old days you’d have trained in a car park. It’s moved on and Jim’s got a lot to do with that in Donegal.

“Lifford Celtic, my first club – I don’t think they’ve changed that much. But the Roughan Gaelic pitch always used to be flooded. Now it’s fixed, new drainage, changing rooms, the GAA have put money in. That must have an impact.

Shay Given

[Stuttgart88]

Does anyone have a UK times subscription? Can you copy and paste Steohen Jones' rugby column today please?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It was either this or start a thread for Kevin Moran.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/paul-kimmage-kevin-moran-the-code-breaker-who-excelled-with-both-dublin-and-man-united-31283091.html

Kevin Moran contrasts his GAA career with his soccer career for Paul Kimmage.

[Stuttgart88]

He was right, it was a blatant penalty on Waddle. It was right in front of me. We sang "Cheat, cheat..." at Waddle for the rest of the game!

We got so much luck in that tournament at times it was unreal!