Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[eighties mullet]

I hate this thread yet i find myself strangely drawn to it everytime it rears its ugly head near the top of page 1,
"Rugby now more popular than football and gaa".... what a statement!! my brother who was in a band wearing skinny
jeans throughout the nineties and a good proportion of the naughties knew less about sport then my cat 'fluffy'
but now he is (and his likeminded mates) the world authority on rugby!! and that says it all for me really,
Rugby is a sport designed for basically people who are sh$t at sport and/or who have no genuine interest in sport,
the game revolves around how fast you can run into someone while holding a large leather egg...................

gob****es are drawn to it for purely social status reasons and something to scoff about with their boss in the canteen at work.
It's all part of the whole bandwagon get on the property ladder, get on the paul o'connell love bus, sheep attitude that draws the
unwanted and they'll be climbing on board our bandwagon come qualification if estonia do the right thing.

Rugby is played in the elitist schools and it's now high fashion to support the meatheads and why we are having this debate on
a football website sickens me.

Rant Over. Get rid of this thread :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Rugby is a sport designed for basically people who are sh$t at sport and/or who have no genuine interest in sport,

I don't think that's the case anywhere but Ireland really and only then because of the recent surge in popularity. They take their rugby seriously in the strongholds in France, England and Wales (and even in Ulster). The unprecedented success of Munster and Leinster has attracted the Johnny come latelys.

[bennocelt]

Rugby is a sport designed for basically people who are sh$t at sport and/or who have no genuine interest in sport,
the game revolves around how fast you can run into someone while holding a large leather egg...................


I would say thats cricket :D

[Stuttgart88]

Trying to get this thread back towrds sensible debate! I think rugby has a better product to offer the punter right now in Ireland. It has 2 teams that can challenge for the Champs League equivalent and the national team only competes against other good teams.

The quick selling out of the Estonia game proved nearly all our beliefs that once some interesting context is added, the football support is there. Call it bandwagoning or whatever, but it's there.

You also have to look at these things in the context of what marketers call the product life cycle. Releasing a sport's latent popularity is the easy part. Keeping it there and adapting it over time is harder.Professional rugby is still in its relative infancy and has room to further develop. However, the sports needs international rugby to pay the bills and may well find - as Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times believes - that the product gets over exploited after a while. A bit like cricket. I'd say that Ireland is relatively unique in its ability to control the club v country conflict that arises by necessity in other regions.

[Strongbow10]

Trying to get this thread back towrds sensible debate! I think rugby has a better product to offer the punter right now in Ireland. It has 2 teams that can challenge for the Champs League equivalent and the national team only competes against other good teams.

The quick selling out of the Estonia game proved nearly all our beliefs that once some interesting context is added, the football support is there. Call it bandwagoning or whatever, but it's there.

You also have to look at these things in the context of what marketers call the product life cycle. Releasing a sport's latent popularity is the easy part. Keeping it there and adapting it over time is harder.Professional rugby is still in its relative infancy and has room to further develop. However, the sports needs international rugby to pay the bills and may well find - as Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times believes - that the product gets over exploited after a while. A bit like cricket. I'd say that Ireland is relatively unique in its ability to control the club v country conflict that arises by necessity in other regions.

And thats it in a nutshell. The general irish "fan" wishes to be entertained. A small minority are passionate out of love for their team/game, but the majority just want a quick feel good factor that comes with a winning side, and the night out the comes with it. That is Ireland.

Punters is the perfect word.

What drives me mad is the gobs*tes from Galway and the like swanning around in their Leinster/Munster jerseys. I know some folks who have been seen in both in the last 3-4 years.

Now people may counter argue that applies to the galway man wearing a Liverpool or Man Utd jersey. But Rugby is without doubt the fashion right now in Ireland.

Take a look a Kieran Cunningham's piece in the Star today. He tears the RWC to shreds. He says only in Ireland will a 3rd rate provincial prop be feted as a legend.

People bang on about how great an achievement it is to have such success on a European Level, but lets see how successful irish club rugby would be with the likes of Garryowen, Buccaneers and St.Marys representing the country in the "Heino Cup".

[IsMiseSean]

And thats it in a nutshell.
What drives me mad is the gobs*tes from Galway and the like swanning around in their Leinster/Munster jerseys. I know some folks who have been seen in both in the last 3-4 years.

And there is plenty of them... But now that Connacht have made it into the HCup those jerseys are slowly being replaced.
I expect the Munster jerseys to be back out in force come April when Connacht fail to win a game in the pool stages

[Stuttgart88]

Anyone see the Sky Sports News reaction to Man United's drubbing by the Sovereign Wealth Fund? They interviewed a bunch of United fans, in separate groups, to get their reactions. All the fans, except for one, were Irish (including NI)!

I've said all along that Man United are more popular in Ireland than any rugby province. This proved nothing of course, but I couldn't help note it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

More popular perhaps. Better supported I doubt. On the basis of what I saw today Rochdale are better supported. I doubt they could've cleared OT that fast for a fire drill.

[elroy]

Anyone see the Sky Sports News reaction to Man United's drubbing by the Sovereign Wealth Fund? They interviewed a bunch of United fans, in separate groups, to get their reactions. All the fans, except for one, were Irish (including NI)!

I've said all along that Man United are more popular in Ireland than any rugby province. This proved nothing of course, but I couldn't help note it.

Its such a shame when you consider the amounts Irish people spend supporting uk clubs, if that money was instead spent supporting Irish clubs, you can just imagine how stronger our own league would be.

[Stuttgart88]

Neil Francis' take on the RWC from The Indo last week (http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/neil-francis-why-are-we-kicking-our-game-to-death-2914403.html)

[paul_oshea]

I feel like a King and you are tasting(vetting) the food for me Stutts.

I came across this article last week and never bothered to read it, but given the fact that you have posted it here, it must be well vetted and worth reading so I shall endeavour to do so now.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/cynicism-is-now-normal-as-game-heads-down-the-toilet-2921118.html

Neil Francis more or less confirming my view that there are many who can only see the worst side of football but who can only see the best side of rugby. Good to see an informed rugby insider confirming what anyone with an open mind can already see, though I wouldn't want to be a tattooed defendant in a trial with Franno on jury service!

[the bear]

i'd say francis takes half an hour to enjoy his own scent after every time he uses the toilet, what an ignorant w***er

[tetsujin1979]

Can't help but feel that there's a subtext of "we have lost the game to the underclass" running through that article, which would be more or less in character with Francis.
I had the extreme displeasure of his company at one of the Guinness Area 22 events last year, and left thinking that he was the kind of fan that would turn you off watching rugby if he was your introduction to the game.

[amaccann]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to Neil Francis, and certainly wouldn't use him as an excuse to knock the game or supporters of rugby; most genuine rugby fans don't really pay attention to him, and see him as simply a stirrer & shock-journo, when he's not bemoaning the professional era that is. He has various chips on his shoulder & this tends to come out in his articles. Think of Dunphy only without the charm.

Considering his amateur era is that of the 99 call (google it), I don't really buy this suggestion rugby has lost its way.

[the bear]

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnPVfbG3rVM)its really gone to the dogs alright


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnPVfbG3rVM

[gastric]

Francis has always had an attitude problem. When he played for Blackrock he was a whinger and arrogant. It seems from Tets' comments that nothing has changed. Listening and accepting his judgments is the same as accepting Dunphy's opinions as being valid. In terms of this debate, I love it when we do well at all sports. Being Aussie based, it has been great that we have beaten them in rugby and International Rules. They are the worst losers in the world and will use any excuse except admit that the better team won. When they win their arrogance is sickening.

[paul_oshea]

ah that 99 call was alright though cos there wasn't any underhanded stuff.

[tetsujin1979]

sort of off topic, but next time a rugby fan points out that all footballers care about is their haircuts, remind him that the Ospreys have had to ban their players from getting fake tans: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1104/1224307038369.html

[Murfinator]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to Neil Francis

This, such a deplorable pundit/journalist.

Interestingly Leinster got 48,000 in the Aviva for an unimportant league match which is a glorified warmup for the bigger H-cup games next week. Both sides even resting some players.

Meanwhile the crunch Armenian fixture had 3,000 less.

[pineapple stu]

How many more away fans did Munster bring than Armenia?

Leinster v Munster is the ultimate bandwagon game anyway.

[Murfinator]

Don't know but they're all Irish fans so I don't think theres any significance what the Leinster/Munster split was. The point is more Irish people turned out to watch a club rugby game than a do or die euro 2012 soccer qualifier.

Heineken cup games coming up against foreign teams so will be interesting to see if those kind of numbers hold. Particularly to compare with Estonia at home.

[Jinxy]

I think this notion will be firmly put to bed in 2012!

[OwlsFan]

Anyone see the RTE 9 O'clock news and the rugby supporter being interviewed at the airport stating that just as well it wasn't a soccer match otherwise there might have been trouble. Arrogant ****.

[Stuttgart88]

That's the way these guys are. Arrogant ****s that get a nosebleed if they stray further west than the DART line.

Mickey Mouse organisation yesterday. It was well known that the temperataures were going to be well below zero.

The 6N is sport's equivalent of Groundhog Day. Same teams, same players, same outcomes over and over again. This year's tournament has so little consequence it's unreal. It's too soon after a WC - where we lost to Wales again - to carry any great significance.

A win in Paris would be great but the simple minded Irish sporting public will tolerate poor performances as long as we beat a woeful England team that only won yesterday because Italy were more woeful. An AIL team would have put that match to bed. I can place kick better than the Italian guy yesterday.

An increasing number of people (OK, about 4!) among my peer group are beginning to agree with me.

The Rabo league is a procession and is about as predictable as the SPL.

[French Toasht]

Ok I didn't see the piece because I don't have access to the Irish news but I have to admit that in rugby you wouldn't see the scenes that you see at Bohs and Rovers matches or the trouble that is routinely seen up and down the country at GAA matches. I presume it was a toff stating that fact in a really condescending manner, but at the same time I would have to agree that trouble is less likely to occur at rugby matches.

Stutts as regards the 6N being repetitive, maybe it is but every match is essentially an intense local derby, which is what makes it great. Same outcomes? In the past 4 years, there have been four different winners of the competition, I'm failing to see your logic there.

[amaccann]

Ahh give over now - don't start dragging out the tired clichés because of one flippant voxpop. West Brits blah blah blah - reverse snobbery how are you. The man a toff? Funny he looked like a typical Irishman to me - but then I guess people see what they want to see :)

Man was just mouthing off out of spur-of-the-moment frustration and rightly so. Rugby or soccer, last night's trip to Paris wouldn't have been cheap for any of those people and 70K+ were told to go home 5 minutes before the match was meant to start. While sitting in a stadium at the fag-end of Paris - St. Denis is in the middle of nowhere. I'd be more interested to have seen the voxpops considering un-broadcastable 'cos there would have been a lot of people far angrier than our apparent West-Brit-toff. Not to mention the thousands of angry French people

As for the 6 Nations as a repetitive tournament - every 12 months you get passionate derby games with knockout matchups. Great stuff altogether, there's a lot to be said for that format.

[Stuttgart88]

Great stuff altogether? Italy v England was dross. Scotland v England was dross. The standard was awful, intense local derby or not. Even Ireland v Wales was painful to watch sometimes, especially Ireland's constant ineffective kicking from hand tactic.

I've never in my life seen Irish or French football fans in any trouble. I never said anything about Rovers or Bohs, nor would I attempt to bury my head in the sand on that front. Had that been the FRA v IRL play-off in November 2009 that was called off at the last minute I'd be pretty confident there'd have been no trouble.

As for the format / status of the competition? The H-Cup has become more important and the RWC is far more important. They might be local derbies but as far as I can see most of the fans are there for the booze up and not much else. It's a (mainly) lads' trip away with a sporting contest attched. Nothing wrong with that in itself but just don't tell me that the context of the 6N is supposed to get me excited this season, because it doesn't.

To this (all) sports enthusiast the 6N just rings hollow so soon after the RWC.

Football has many ills, I fully get that. I just wish the rugby heads would have the decency to accept that their sport is also riddled wth rule anomalies, refereeing inconsistencies, and as the sport's professional era becomes more advanced, bad sportsmanship, bad off pitch behaviour and all of that. I don't see much evidence that they do.

[tetsujin1979]

Anyone see the RTE 9 O'clock news and the rugby supporter being interviewed at the airport stating that just as well it wasn't a soccer match otherwise there might have been trouble. Arrogant ****.It was on the nine o'clock news on RTE, you should be able to watch it here: http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1135585 same goes for anyone watching outside Ireland, AFAIK the news programs are not geo-locked
The report starts around the ten minute mark, the guy says "If it was a soccer match, it would have been a lot worse reaction, if you like"
who the fcuk asked him to compare it to soccer? There hasn't been problems at an Ireland soccer game since the England match in Lansdowne in 1995, and that was clearly not the home fans at fault. Meanwhile, there's been near riot conditions at GAA games as recently as two weeks ago


Great stuff altogether? Italy v England was dross. Scotland v England was dross. The standard was awful, intense local derby or not.England getting praise yesterday on BBC for winning two consecutive away games for the first time in years. Conveniently ignoring those games were against the worst two teams in the tournament, and I'd put money on them not winning another game for the rest of the six nations.


I've never in my life seen Irish or French football fans in any trouble. I never said anything about Rovers or Bohs, nor would I attempt to bury my head in the sand on that front. Had that been the FRA v IRL play-off in November 2009 that was called off at the last minute I'd be pretty confident there'd have been no trouble.considering what did happen in the play off game, the response of the fans should have been praised. Both sides actually, some French fans apologised to me when I got back to Paris.


As for the format / status of the competition? The H-Cup has become more important and the RWC is far more important. They might be local derbies but as far as I can see most of the fans are there for the booze up and not much else. It's a (mainly) lads' trip away with a sporting contest attched. Nothing wrong with that in itself but just don't tell me that the context of the 6N is supposed to get me excited this season, because it doesn't.I've been told that the IRFU are prepared to write off this, and possibly the next two six nations, in order to bring through younger players to have them ready for the world cup in 2013. Hence persisting with Sexton when something is clearly wrong with him at international level. France did the same after Ireland won the grand slam. The following season was all about beating Ireland, and becoming the de facto northern hemisphere champions, winning the grand slam was incidental.


Football has many ills, I fully get that. I just wish the rugby heads would have the decency to accept that their sport is also riddled wth rule anomalies, refereeing inconsistencies, and as the sport's professional era becomes more advanced, bad sportsmanship, bad off pitch behaviour and all of that. I don't see much evidence that they do.Read an article late last year comparing the way soccer and rugby are reported, and wondering why rugby players seem to get a much easier ride. The conclusion was that, while soccer fans wish the rugby players were subject to the same scrutiny, maybe the ideal situation was soccer players (human beings, lets not forget, and thus as fallible as any other) should be subject to the same "hands off" approach that their opposite numbers in rugby get.

My own opinion for a long time was that there was a level of jealousy from the journalists, who (in most cases) went to college, were educated, and in their own opinions earned their pay. In their eyes, why should someone earn far more than them for doing less? As for why rugby players got an easier ride, traditionally they came from similar backgrounds, in many cases went to the same schools (I know this has changed in the last few years) and were on better terms. In every soccer club, there's at least one players who was stitched up by the press, so why would any other player want to talk to them? The only rugby player I can remember having to suffer anything like that was O'Gara around the time of the world cup in France, when the allegations about his gambling and extra marital affairs came out and disappeared soon after.

With the introduction of professionalism, and the extra scrutiny that comes with it, it will be interesting to see how the relationship between players and media develops over the next few years.


Ok I didn't see the piece because I don't have access to the Irish news but I have to admit that in rugby you wouldn't see the scenes that you see at Bohs and Rovers matches or the trouble that is routinely seen up and down the country at GAA matches. I presume it was a toff stating that fact in a really condescending manner, but at the same time I would have to agree that trouble is less likely to occur at rugby matches.

Stutts as regards the 6N being repetitive, maybe it is but every match is essentially an intense local derby, which is what makes it great. Same outcomes? In the past 4 years, there have been four different winners of the competition, I'm failing to see your logic there.
And in the previous eight years, there was only three winners, with France winning it four times, England three times, and Wales just once
Realistically, there's only ever going to be four winners of the tournament, Italy or Scotland will never win it. It usually comes down to who has the better home fixtures, we're never going to win it with away games against England and France.

Scotland and Italy are also rans, although Italy are improving
Ireland and Wales are more or less the same. We can beat them, they can beat us.
France rarely lose at home, but can struggle on the road against Ireland, Wales and England
England go from the sublime to the ridiculous. Currently, they're pretty much ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, I do love the tournament, but when it becomes a soap box for people to proclaim superiority over any other sport, it detracts greatly from it.

That always looked like a sign of weakness, if you truly are greater, there's no need to state it.

[elroy]

I would suggest that there were a far deeper anger and frustration amongst the Irish fans the night of the 2010 play off than there was last Saturday night. yet there was no trouble. In fact, I recall massive queues outside the stadium in a small area/bridge leading up to the train station, where many Irish and French were mixed together. If ever there was a major receipe for trouble that it. Yet there was none.

As a follower of all sports I never like to see this putting one down over the other attitude, each sport has plenty of its ills. The 6Ns is far from perfect but I always find it very entertaining and while you will get many a poor game, you will also get fantastic contests.

[Murfinator]

Anyone see the RTE 9 O'clock news and the rugby supporter being interviewed at the airport stating that just as well it wasn't a soccer match otherwise there might have been trouble. Arrogant ****.


That's the way these guys are. Arrogant ****s that get a nosebleed if they stray further west than the DART line.


You call the guy interviewed arrogant for using a generalisation about soccer supporters and then insult him using a generalisation of rugby supporters? That makes you look incredibly petty.

[amaccann]

Great stuff altogether? Italy v England was dross. Scotland v England was dross. The standard was awful, intense local derby or not. Even Ireland v Wales was painful to watch sometimes, especially Ireland's constant ineffective kicking from hand tactic.

[...]

Football has many ills, I fully get that. I just wish the rugby heads would have the decency to accept that their sport is also riddled wth rule anomalies, refereeing inconsistencies, and as the sport's professional era becomes more advanced, bad sportsmanship, bad off pitch behaviour and all of that. I don't see much evidence that they do.

Not every year is a classic, but as a tournament, I like the idea of it. And for neutrals it doesn't outstay its welcome. But that wasn't really the point I was making.

I don't see how one idiotic comment made during a voxpop - from one random punter (probably said in the heat of the moment) - should be followed up by another set of idiotic comments, talking about arrogant rugby toffs. I mean ffs, are we still really in that realm of thinking? It's petty & insecure to say the least. Newsflash, most rugby heads don't really care that much about what the soccer heads think - they're too busy enjoying the sport they love and they expect their fellow sportsnuts to do the same.


[...]

Don't get me wrong, I do love the tournament, but when it becomes a soap box for people to proclaim superiority over any other sport, it detracts greatly from it.

That always looked like a sign of weakness, if you truly are greater, there's no need to state it.

On person on a voxpop doesn't make a soapbox, this is what's ticking me off here. And yet here we are throwing out generalisations left right and centre about the egg-chasers. As someone passionate about both sports - followed rugby long before it was fashionable too so I know all about the supposed toffs - it's tiring that the same comments get trotted out that have just the smallest stench of reverse-snobbery.

[Stuttgart88]

Point taken about the comments of one man and generalisations, but I actually knock around with a bunch of rugby fans so my views are determined by their attitudes, plus years of experience. I don't actually think they're toffs by the way - though the DART line story is based on a former colleague from St. Michaels and Dalkey who at age 25 didn't know where Rathfarnham was!

I'm from a white collar rugby playing background myself. I was in a rugby playing school and have been going to internationals since the early 80s and all through the 90s, inter pros since the same time (not as regularly) and even several years of going to my AIL club every second Saturday.

It's not reverse snobbery at all - just a reaction to some of the rubbish I hear from people who should know better. It's actually worse now than in the 80s / 90s - admittedly as far as I can tell from the UK. Now there's a nasty Celtic Tiger-era smugness that has crept in, the type of attitude I never felt was befitting of the Irish, or certainly that I never liked when I saw it in the Irish. I'm a member of an Irish business grouping here in London and am not going to renew next year because of this.

I think we all know that during football's successful years we had a lot of fair weather fans only interested because the team was winning. I think there's a fair bit of that in the current rugby support.

I also loathe the double standards. My mate is an under age coach at Richmond who was thrilled when one of his charges got sent off for punching an arrogant opposition fly half because it showed great character. Another mate, who went drinking with me and Paul O'Shea before Spurs v Rovers, was rabbiting on in the pub that rugby is the only sport that can bond team mates together properly. Football, rowing crews, any other sport can't do that?

Oh, my rugby die hard mates are losing interest in Ireland. Leinster is more important to them now :)

[Jinxy]

You call the guy interviewed arrogant for using a generalisation about soccer supporters and then insult him using a generalisation of rugby supporters? That makes you look incredibly petty.

He started it!

[Jinxy]

Not every year is a classic, but as a tournament, I like the idea of it. And for neutrals it doesn't outstay its welcome. But that wasn't really the point I was making.

I don't see how one idiotic comment made during a voxpop - from one random punter (probably said in the heat of the moment) - should be followed up by another set of idiotic comments, talking about arrogant rugby toffs. I mean ffs, are we still really in that realm of thinking? It's petty & insecure to say the least. Newsflash, most rugby heads don't really care that much about what the soccer heads think - they're too busy enjoying the sport they love and they expect their fellow sportsnuts to do the same.



On person on a voxpop doesn't make a soapbox, this is what's ticking me off here. And yet here we are throwing out generalisations left right and centre about the egg-chasers. As someone passionate about both sports - followed rugby long before it was fashionable too so I know all about the supposed toffs - it's tiring that the same comments get trotted out that have just the smallest stench of reverse-snobbery.

'Knackerball', 'wendyball', 'chavball' etc.
Edit: Shane Horgan on Off the Ball has just reiterated the exact same point the guy in the airport made i.e. if this had been soccer fans there could have been trouble.

[amaccann]

'Knackerball', 'wendyball', 'chavball' etc.
Edit: Shane Horgan on Off the Ball has just reiterated the exact same point the guy in the airport made i.e. if this had been soccer fans there could have been trouble.

Never heard those used before myself, but thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to use them in future! See, this is why I used the term 'most' because just like in soccer, you get idiots. I just figured the rest of us could move past it rather than use it as an excuse for name calling

[amaccann]

Point taken about the comments of one man and generalisations, but I actually knock around with a bunch of rugby fans so my views are determined by their attitudes, plus years of experience. I don't actually think they're toffs by the way - though the DART line story is based on a former colleague from St. Michaels and Dalkey who at age 25 didn't know where Rathfarnham was!

Fair enough, we all have our perspectives of the game & its support, and don't get me wrong - there's a definite clique in certain corners of the rugby fraternity that, well, the rest of us wouldn't mind if they were pushed off the end of a pier one sunny afternoon. But generally, as flooded as the game has become with fair-weather fans, the offshoot of this popularity has been a general disappearance of the traditional stereotype of the rugby fan.




It's not reverse snobbery at all - just a reaction to some of the rubbish I hear from people who should know better. It's actually worse now than in the 80s / 90s - admittedly as far as I can tell from the UK. Now there's a nasty Celtic Tiger-era smugness that has crept in, the type of attitude I never felt was befitting of the Irish, or certainly that I never liked when I saw it in the Irish. I'm a member of an Irish business grouping here in London and am not going to renew next year because of this.

Again fair enough, though I think you're sort of right; I don't think it's entirely about the Celtic Tiger. Munster & Leinster have rocketed to the top of the rugby food chain in Europe and with it has come a heightened sense of arrogance and rivalry in the support. More than one person has remarked to me that their personal idea of hell would be a Munster / Leinster H-Cup final because it would just be unbearably obnoxious to put up with.


I also loathe the double standards. My mate is an under age coach at Richmond who was thrilled when one of his charges got sent off for punching an arrogant opposition fly half because it showed great character. Another mate, who went drinking with me and Paul O'Shea before Spurs v Rovers, was rabbiting on in the pub that rugby is the only sport that can bond team mates together properly. Football, rowing crews, any other sport can't do that?

Oh, my rugby die hard mates are losing interest in Ireland. Leinster is more important to them now :)

Ha! Ah well to me that's a problem across the board in all schools field-sports, not just rugby. Ok, maybe not with the punching, but there's too much emphasis on the physical and the getting-stuck-in not enough on creativity. But that's for another thread I think.

[Stuttgart88]

'Knackerball', 'wendyball', 'chavball' etc.
Edit: Shane Horgan on Off the Ball has just reiterated the exact same point the guy in the airport made i.e. if this had been soccer fans there could have been trouble.And did anybody challenge him on it?

If Horgan had qualified his remark by saying had it been an Old Firm game or Ajax v Feyenoord, Rovers v Bohs or whatever, he might be right. But France v ROI in Paris - no way.

[Stuttgart88]

I mentioned my mate being thrilled that one of his 11 year-olds decked his opposite number because he’s one of the same guys who bangs on about rugby’s superior values!

The L vs M thing is interesting. I heard on good authority that SKY really doesn’t want an all-Irish final.

There was an interview with the CEO of Premier League Rugby recently (Paul Ackford’s Sunday Telegraph column) complaining about the easy passage that Rabo league teams have into the competition. L and M, and some crappy Scottish and Italian franchises walk into the tournament automatically while English clubs have to fight tooth and nail to qualify. An Italian team has only once not come fourth in the pool stage apparently. L and M can rest players in advance and after H Cup weekends. Furthermore, this will never change because the H Cup committee in ERC (or who ever) is made up of 75% Celtic members.

I suspect this is at least partly true. The Celtic Tiger-era smugness I was referring to would be blind to any of this if the H Cup was an all Irish affair.

I’ve just finished a MSc in Sport Business. If I had one more paper to prepare it would be to challenge the conventional wisdom of Ireland’s superiority at club level and to ask whether there is a downside to the growth of the provincial franchises.

[amaccann]

There was an interview with the CEO of Premier League Rugby recently (Paul Ackford’s Sunday Telegraph column) complaining about the easy passage that Rabo league teams have into the competition. L and M, and some crappy Scottish and Italian franchises walk into the tournament automatically while English clubs have to fight tooth and nail to qualify. An Italian team has only once not come fourth in the pool stage apparently. L and M can rest players in advance and after H Cup weekends. Furthermore, this will never change because the H Cup committee in ERC (or who ever) is made up of 75% Celtic members.

Yup, I read the same interview and it was a lot of sourgrapes on his part & deflection imo. English rugby is in a poor state at the moment, there's very little quality & technical work is being done in the academies and youth system; the net result is that the English teams are simply outplayed by the French & Celtic sides. The RFU don't like being the paupers, so lash out at the Rabo's perceived 'easiness'. But the Scots have a team in quarters, and are there on merit, and Italian side Treviso nearly knocked out the only remaining English team in the tourney (inexperience let them down, they can't close out games they're winning). Both those sides have tiny squads, even compared to the impoverished English, and really only 3 of the 12 in the Rabo have the depth to rotate in the fashion he was claiming exists. The rest have to fight tooth and nail too!

If you think the English FA & press are arrogant, you should read more about the RFU. They make their footie brethren look like humble saints.

[tetsujin1979]

NotOn person on a voxpop doesn't make a soapbox, this is what's ticking me off here. And yet here we are throwing out generalisations left right and centre about the egg-chasers. As someone passionate about both sports - followed rugby long before it was fashionable too so I know all about the supposed toffs - it's tiring that the same comments get trotted out that have just the smallest stench of reverse-snobbery.I'm from Limerick, I played the game in secondary school (I was terrible, but that's a whole other story) and since moving to Dublin I've met more than my fair share of Leinster fans who look down on soccer fans as a lower class. One fan in particular spent time and energy decrying the professional game because of the new breed of supporters that have taken up residence in the RDS, and (in his exact words) "if that's how they want to act, they can f**k off and watch football".

[Jinxy]

And did anybody challenge him on it?

If Horgan had qualified his remark by saying had it been an Old Firm game or Ajax v Feyenoord, Rovers v Bohs or whatever, he might be right. But France v ROI in Paris - no way.

Nope.
They did read out a text later on that said it was unfair to say that but at the time of the comment no remarks were passed.
In general I think soccer and the GAA are considered fair game on Off the Ball while rugby is a protected species.

[Spudulika]

Yup, I read the same interview and it was a lot of sourgrapes on his part & deflection imo. English rugby is in a poor state at the moment, there's very little quality & technical work is being done in the academies and youth system; the net result is that the English teams are simply outplayed by the French & Celtic sides. The RFU don't like being the paupers, so lash out at the Rabo's perceived 'easiness'. But the Scots have a team in quarters, and are there on merit, and Italian side Treviso nearly knocked out the only remaining English team in the tourney (inexperience let them down, they can't close out games they're winning). Both those sides have tiny squads, even compared to the impoverished English, and really only 3 of the 12 in the Rabo have the depth to rotate in the fashion he was claiming exists. The rest have to fight tooth and nail too!

If you think the English FA & press are arrogant, you should read more about the RFU. They make their footie brethren look like humble saints.

I'm a sports supporter, I enjoy all sports, I can even find merit in biathlon (despite the drug abuse) and sports are an excellent vehicle for people to channel energy, to assist children growing into productive adults and to promote health issues. However there are two types of idiot species that surround sports. a) "I don't like sports" w@nkers and b) "My sport is better than all others" fupwits. Between them they make others ashamed of their passion or uncomfortable to enjoy their pursuits. Bogball (seen often on foot.ie), eggchasing etc, this is neverending nonsense used by those who feel inferior about their own sport and want to be different. The next step is to put on a leather thong, get your nipples pierced and prance around Grafton Street calling yourself an artist. We're lucky to have a proper sports culture in Ireland, knocking other sports show just how poorly you think of your own.

Amacann, you don't know the half of the RFU stupidity. Sitting at numerous conferences and training days with reps from the RFU (I shudder thinking of FIRA) and listening to them pontificate about how rugby should be played and organised, it killed me. Like soccer academies, the rugby counterparts are failing and english rugby is losing players year on year. As a result of their shortsighted policies, the RFU have effectively killed rugby development in Europe (my old firm worked with FIRA on this) using their veto to block any progress possible. In 2006 and 2007 (I think in 2010 in Malta also) they blocked initiatives proposed by nations to have a proper European league with the 6 nations B teams playing in it. The top flight of 10 teams would play each other once, there'd be 3 division of 10 below it. 37 of 38 countries voted for it in 2006 and 2007, the RFU vetoed it.

[tetsujin1979]

just one other thing, I have my own set of problems with the stadium announcer at Ireland games, but they pale in comparison with what the Leinster stadium announcer has been doing for the last two Munster games in the Aviva stadium.
He decided to stir things up for the 2010 game by trying to get the home fans to "show the Munster fans who the real rugby fans are in Ireland" (seriously, that's a direct quote over the tannoy) and in the game last November he didn't announce any of the Munster scorers in the first half, and announced each Leinster scorer with "*loud excited voice*Johnny Sexton (or whoever) penalty! Leinster 13 *mumbles into his chest* Munster 9"
Someone must have had a word with him at half time because he started announcing the scorers in the second half.

To be fair, some Leinster-following friends of mine did apologise to me for his behaviour

[bennocelt]

b) "My sport is better than all others" fupwits. Between them they make others ashamed of their passion or uncomfortable to enjoy their pursuits. Bogball (seen often on foot.ie), eggchasing etc, this is neverending nonsense used by those who feel inferior about their own sport and want to be different.
We're lucky to have a proper sports culture in Ireland, knocking other sports show just how poorly you think of your own.
.

eh football is and always will be number one!!!!
(followed by boxing, athletics and cricket!!!)
"proper sports country" ? Really, pity we dont like to invest in it then. I would argue we are the best event junkies in the world (which is fine)

[Spudulika]

eh football is and always will be number one!!!!
(followed by boxing, athletics and cricket!!!)
"proper sports country" ? Really, pity we dont like to invest in it then. I would argue we are the best event junkies in the world (which is fine)

:-) I'd disagree, women's beach volleyball.

That's the problem BC, we're a proper sports country, with proper grassroots support (without which there'd be nothing) and a government who do nothing but pay lip service. Here in Russia you've a government who construct the places but no grassroots support. The oligarchs have been forced to invest in sports here (pick a club and you'll find the backer in seconds) or they'll lose their state gifted assets, in Ireland we can't do that. Or won't. Every country has sports junkies, the Irish just enjoy it more than others.

[bennocelt]

Yet bogball is the most popular sport in the country? Doesnt that prove we haven't a clue about sport

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm fairly sure soccer is the most popular. The GAA sports combined might be more popular but they are two different sports.

[Jinxy]

Eh, rugby is the most popular sport.
Did ye not read the first post?

[ArdeeBhoy]

But shouldn't we be glad if soccer's less popular than GAA(football) , rugby & hurling in that order.
With golf/racing very close.

It takes off less pressure in terms of getting tickets and the like.
And if their fans happen to be D4 snobs or the worst sort of gombeen man, so what?