Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[geysir]

Going back to 1987/88 Ireland lucked out and went to Germany
We were the best team in the qualifying group, plain and simple.

[shaneker]

Was just chatting to a friend on facebook, discussing the match. Here's what he posted...

There really isn't anything in life that gets me as worked up as Ireland internationals. Any given game could be something monumental in a good or bad way. 0-0 draws with Liechtenstein, last second equalisers against Macedonia and Israel, disgraceful defeats to Cyprus, Thierry Henry, Patrick Kluivert, that night of misery in Lisbon, losing playoff after playoff... or Ray Houghton putting the ball in the English net, Kevin Sheedy shutting the English up again, Packie saving Timofte's penno, Alan McLoughlin's equaliser against the north, Glory in the Giant's stadium with Macca at his finest, Matty Holland's stunner in Lisbon, Keano's one man show against Portugal in Landsdowne, Jason McAteer's winner against the Dutch, Robbie's equaliser against Germany, Glen Whelan against the Italians, the entire performance in Paris, 6 points from 6 so far. COME...ON...YOU...BOYS IN GREEN!!!!

At least some of us aren't abandoning the team!

Your friend should be a motivational speaker! I'm buzzing about this game, and that has added to it!

[SUB of the day]

Was just chatting to a friend on facebook, discussing the match. Here's what he posted...



At least some of us aren't abandoning the team!..........fantastic post, one every genuine fan can relate to.I know a big match is looming because that old familiar dodgy feeling in the stomach is back, only known cure, several pints of Uncle Arthur!

[SwanVsDalton]

Getting me flight to Dublin in twelve hours - don't know about the media, or Irish general in public, but I can't freaking wait. These matches are what it's all about and this game is the first big test of a developing squad since Paris. The next week or could be epic (and knowing Ireland, probably will be).

[The Fly]

Why have the Irish people abandoned this team?

You should have posted the thread in the League section.

[osarusan]

You should have posted the thread in the League section. :tremble:

Why? I don't follow you.

[The Fly]

Why? I don't follow you.

To get a better response of course. :rolleyes:

[Closed Account 2]

I've been to matches all over the world, even if there is football being played by a load of cloggers in a park I'll probably watch it... But nothing compares to the emotions of watching my team, those eleven, playing a night game.

The pulse races, the stomach aches, all the questions like, "Would I take a 0-0?", "Will Keano drop back too much trying to pick up the ball", "Is Kilbane going to be up to it?", "Will Dzagoev be countered?" ... It's really almost torture when you analyse it medically, nothing is ever simple for us. However, this time especially, we really have a massive chance to make it out of the group, but knowing what happend a year ago who knows... But then what can you do ? You follow the team, you don't choose to be an Ireland fan it's who you are, it's generations of history, is the blood in our veins.

The one world you cannot use is apathy.

[DannyInvincible]

why? its a fair question. our biggest home group game not selling out, not the same hype in the media about a qualifier that there once was etc etc

I suspect people are disillusioned not with the team, but rather with the FAI's ticket pricing and sales policy. Can't judge the media interest as I'm living in Manchester now, but I know that anyone I've spoken to here is buzzing for it and can't wait for kick-off.

[DannyInvincible]

Irish fans, that is. ;) Although even my English friend is coming along with us to watch.

[paul_oshea]

Was just chatting to a friend on facebook, discussing the match. Here's what he posted...



At least some of us aren't abandoning the team!


I just copied that and put it as my bookface profile. I know bookface updates are gay, i dont ever do them but i had to do that.

UP at daft oclock today to work up the hours to be able leave..It adds to the excitement for me flying in, going back to the motherland, the first pint on Irish soil, the first Irish jersey you spot - not near the ground somewhere obscure- and get that feeling of "he knows what im thinking/how im feeling" acknowledging eachother, meeting up with the mates, chatting, catching up, singing songs, getting nervous, asking the randomer in the toiler "how will we do tonight?!", more pints, and then singing my heart out for 90+ mins. It cant be beaten, im even getting a cold tingly feeling writing this. Caledonia is playing in my ear. Pity that wasn't an irish song.......Funny it being pitch black in work, and only starting work....I was thinking of running around naked in the building for abit of craic, luckily i didnt there was some other nutjob in as early :D

[an_ceannaire]

lads. you have to admit, despite how passionate people on foot.ie are. that even this morning, on match day, there is a noticeable lack of buzz anticipation and hype about this game. Its like ya we know its on, but do many people really care..??
in work this morning there is more talk about the Henieken Cup this weekend and the GAA draw last night.
There are a few heads who are die hard soccer lads and we cant wait, but in general there is massive apathy compared to a few years back.
I honestly believe the public are just finding it hard to get behind the likes of Green, McShane, Whelan etc etc.....i actually do believe that if we had a MF of Duff, Reid, Ireland, McGeady that there would be much more interest. As it is, watchign Ireland is like watching paint dry and people have switched off in their hundreds of thousands. Remember when we all gave out and said the stadium capacity was too small, well, Tonight is the big home game of the group, and its not sold out.....nuff said.

Am i wrong? you might not like it, but, am I wrong?

[drummerboy]

lads. you have to admit, despite how passionate people on foot.ie are. that even this morning, on match day, there is a noticeable lack of buzz anticipation and hype about this game. Its like ya we know its on, but do many people really care..??
in work this morning there is more talk about the Henieken Cup this weekend and the GAA draw last night.
There are a few heads who are die hard soccer lads and we cant wait, but in general there is massive apathy compared to a few years back.
I honestly believe the public are just finding it hard to get behind the likes of Green, McShane, Whelan etc etc.....i actually do believe that if we had a MF of Duff, Reid, Ireland, McGeady that there would be much more interest. As it is, watchign Ireland is like watching paint dry and people have switched off in their hundreds of thousands. Remember when we all gave out and said the stadium capacity was too small, well, Tonight is the big home game of the group, and its not sold out.....nuff said.

Am i wrong? you might not like it, but, am I wrong?

Jaysus, there isn't a tackle in that midfield, they wouldn't be long losing faith in them after a couple of 5-2 defeats.

I think the price of the tickets and the current economic climate have a huge bearing on the match not being sold out.

As someone who has been involved in football all my life at grassroots level, I have to say that the FAI are losing out to other sports. The way the game is run at schoolboy level is based is seriously flawed. Its absolutely cut-throat from u11 up. In my area of Dublin lots of kids are drifting to the GAA. Lots of these kids have played in the top dvision of the DDSL.

[Lionel Ritchie]

you might not like it, You're right



but, am I wrong? You're wrong

[AlaskaFox]

You are wrong. If you think watching Ireland is like watching paint dry, then what's the point in even following the matches? Ireland doesn't need bandwagon supporters who only follow us when we get to tournaments, it needs real fans who'll scream their lungs out during a well-fought 1-0 away victory in Macedonia.

[paul_oshea]

No...

[tetsujin1979]

Tonight is the big home game of the group, and its not sold out.....nuff said.
according to all sources, apart from the returned Russian tickets, which went on sale yesterday, it is sold out

[paul_oshea]

Ya but they also exaggerated the last few games too tets....

anyway i know where im from soccer is not as well supported in terms of GAA, thats from a team who had won the county last 2 years in row bar this year where they lost in the semi final, and a soccer team who are always in the top 2 or 3 of the top division in the league. But its still as well supported by those who always supported no waining in favour of Rugby, though we are not a rugby county. But i know from over here, where the expat thing used to be all about meeting up for ireland games etc etc, its just not there anymore for soccer and has been overtaken by rugby, especially from the GAA heads.

From my mates at home I can only see what an_ceannaire saying to be correct. It doesn't bother me, it will just annoy me more when htey come asking me for tickets and jumping on the bandwagon. I am an IT contractor, i take days off and dont get paid when i dont work, so watching ireland is more of an expense for me than most and i can say this, if any of the c u next tuesdays get a ticket for the Euros should we get there I will find it very difficult to actually go to games again. Not supporting Ireland but going to games.

[elroy]

All the general admission tickets are sold out, thats for sure. Premiums i dont think so, but then the prices for those tickets are very expensive. It was ridiculous putting in so many premium seats in the place but anyways thats for another day.

I think recession is a huge factor. Football supporters by and large do not have the same level of disposable income as the rugby crowd so obvioulsly will be hit harder by the recession.

I also think the Friday night game, although good for us based in dublin isnt ideally suited to everyone, ie travelling from abroad or down the country so that is also likely to affect numbers.

LR capacity for competitive games was about 17k short of what we have now. So ignoring the croke park years, based on traditional LR figures, I think 50k in for an international game is very good going.

Finally, no one should be going supporting Ireland (Football, rugby or otherwise) for the 'entertainment' value. We are a small country, we dont have the playing pool of a Brazil, we're not going to produce 11 gifted players. Following Ireland is about pride in your country, pride in the jersey, something you cant explain, its what you belong to, its your team and it really really really matters to you if we win lose or draw. Its living every kick of the ball, every tackle, every bad decision. You cant buy this sort of passion, I for one treasure the fact that I have this passion for the Irish team, those that dont, well they dont realise what they are missing.

A short story, a die hard gaa hurling fan came with me to paris this year. His first Ireland away game, may have been his first Ireland game. He was blown away by the experience and that was before the game even started.

[shakermaker1982]

To be honest it doesn't bother me one bit that this team hasn't captured the nations imagination. Bar stoolers, Dunphy and his disciples and my dad (thinks I'm mad spending all my £ on Ireland games!!!) will be all wanting to go to Ukraine/Poland if we qualify. That is the nature of the beast.

We'll never play like Barcelona but so what? The team gives its all and sometimes that is good enough. Ireland are my 'club' team. I watch crappy Championship games if there is a young Irish lad starting just in case he is the next Roy Keane/Robbie Keane/Paul McGrath. Plenty of die hards on foot.ie. If you want a buzz before the game then just come on here or ybig.

I know it would be nice if we didn't lump it long to Doyle every two minutes but it's what we do because a nation of 4 million cannot keep producing top class footballers. If it works, is effective and gets to Euro 2012 then I'll take it.

[an_ceannaire]

lads, can i just say, this thread was NOT meant as a wind up or to stir the sh*t
its just a reflection of what I and many more see as a decrease in support for the national football team.
Please dont take it as an insult.
I am sorry if anyone misunderstood.

Anyways, feck the begrudgers. 1-0 tonight. It wont be pretty but i fancy a doyler header from a corner. Cant see us scoring from open play.

[Straightstory]

Alot of people are losing interest in International football, unless we're taking part in WC & EC. The majority of football fans in this country are more bothered about MU/Liverpool/Celtic/Arsenal winning than Ireland. Alot of my friends were looking forward to the Chelsea/Arsenal game at the weekend than they are to the game Friday night. Its nothing to do the Traps style of play or anything like that. We have to qualify for something to raise the profile of the team and then all the glory hunters will get on board....

Totally agree with first point about the Premiership obsession. Can never understand all the 'Ireland have the best fans in the world stuff.' I've always thought they were/are some of the worst; Fickle, unknowledgeable about the game, and not supporting - or even being actively hostile to - club football in their own country.
It's still very early in the group, and if Ireland get near qualifying, people will be excited again. However, apart from Keane and Doyle up front, Ireland have the most boring bunch of players I can ever remember playing for the national side. This, and Trap's extremely dull, conservative and predictable way of playing football must be a factor.
If we qualify, though, all will be forgiven.

[Straightstory]

Well, actually, I do like Duffer as well. Nearly always Ireland's best player when he plays...

[Scooby Doo]

In all honesty, who gives a fiddlers about the type of football we play if we end up winning the match!!! Long balls all night will suit me fine if the desired result is achieved and I will consider the price of my ticket as money very well spent. We all knew from day one when Trap took over that this was the brand of football we'd play. Look back to the 2008 threads and I'm sure there were many posts predicting as much. It is working so far and has given Irish fans something to get very excited about on matchdays - the fact that we are competing well with stronger teams! If anyone on here had suggested, back in the dark days of Stan's reign, that we might just beat this Russia side, they'd probably have been laughed at.
I'm sitting in work and I can't concentrate on anything except the clock as it moves closer to 7.45. As a previous poster suggested, f*ck the begrudgers and get behind the BIG!

2-1 Ireland

[holidaysong]

You follow the team, you don't choose to be an Ireland fan it's who you are, it's generations of history, is the blood in our veins.

The one world you cannot use is apathy.

Replace Ireland in that quote with Dundalk FC, Athletic Bilbao or Boca Juniors and that's how nearly all football fans all over the world feel about their team. Apathy happens with the general public, not with them. Amongst the general public in Ireland I can definitely feel a disinterest in the national team in the last months and years. Indeed I'd guess this downturn in interest has a strong relationship with the upturn in fortunes of rugby in this country.

[an_ceannaire]

Replace Ireland in that quote with Dundalk FC, Athletic Bilbao or Boca Juniors and that's how nearly all football fans all over the world feel about their team. Apathy happens with the general public, not with them. Amongst the general public in Ireland I can definitely feel a disinterest in the national team in the last months and years. Indeed I'd guess this downturn in interest has a strong relationship with the upturn in fortunes of rugby in this country.

+1000000000000

[Wolfie]

lads, can i just say, this thread was NOT meant as a wind up or to stir the sh*t
its just a reflection of what I and many more see as a decrease in support for the national football team.
Please dont take it as an insult.
I am sorry if anyone misunderstood.

Anyways, feck the begrudgers. 1-0 tonight. It wont be pretty but i fancy a doyler header from a corner. Cant see us scoring from open play.

I'm attending games 25 years and I've seen the teams popularity ebb and flow over that period - I wouldn't let it concern you.

Some of the best matches I've been at had much less media exposure and were played out in front of roughly 23,000 fans. Ireland versus Bulgaria in 1987 springs to mind.

A smaller but committed bunch of fans will always generate a more vocal and passionate atmosphere anyway.

Some of the populist media interest that the team has acquired over the years has been a counter productive nuisance anyway.

I think the core support will always be around as its been with us since childhood.

You just can't beat the build up to these matches. Meet the mates,discuss the game over a few pints, stroll to the ground, anticipation of kick off..........................can't wait.

Come on Ireland.

[Paulie]

Unless we're playing absolute minnows, when watching Ireland I usually find myself thinking after about 5 minutes of play, that if I could just fall asleep, wake up after the game and be told the result without having to go through the torment of the game itself, it would be much better for my health and general well being. I couldn't support a club, I couldn't do this on a weekly basis. I wouldn't want to!

[thischarmingman]

Indo led with Man United story today: http://www.independent.ie/sport/

[tetsujin1979]

Indo led with Man United story today: http://www.independent.ie/sport/
I was on the site this morning, and the lead story then was the "Trap focuses on same old little details"
Looks like the United story was added in since then, the figures were only announced this morning so it's unlikely to be in the paper itself.

[an_ceannaire]

I was on the site this morning, and the lead story then was the "Trap focuses on same old little details"
Looks like the United story was added in since then, the figures were only announced this morning so it's unlikely to be in the paper itself.


Wood.........trees..........

[The Fly]

Wood.........trees..........

Could you use a larger font please?

[Fizzer]

I think there is general apathy towards the team which isn't helped by the rugby-obsessed media. I'm just not sure whether perhaps its always been that way and the public have always only been interested when we were qualifying for world cups. I hate the way I'm the only person in work interested in the team, loads of people don't even know the game's on tonight. On the 'best supporters in the world' issue yeah I think thats probably overstated but I do think there's a really special relationship between the players and the real fans. I'll never forget Duffer in tears in Paris saluting the fans in the corner of the stadium as they cheered the team off the pitch. It's that kind of stuff that makes our team and our fans special.

[amaccann]

Hand on heart? I'm just not feeling as passionate about the Ireland team as I used to (30 years old, supporting Ireland since I was a wee fella). I have lost interest. As an add-on, I have also followed rugby for that same length of time, so it's not like I've been jumping ship or anything, I have followed both sports passionately and see them as both very different and very similar (as an aside, I fecking hate some of the blow-ins rugby has attracted - mostly the muppet Leinster supporters; even rugby's losing it's innocence)

But soccer? Errrrgh, I dunno it's just so hard to get the passions stoked for the sport anymore. Generally that is, rather than specific teams or tournaments.

Maybe it's the bland stadia that have no uniqueness about them; maybe it's the overpaid, overprotected players, acting like brainless metrosexuals; maybe it's the horrible, horrible cynicism & gamesmanship that cripples every game; maybe it's the constant hyping by Sky or EA that demand I be terribly excited about Stoke vs. Wigan; maybe it's the corruption across the board in every regional association; maybe it's this country's obsession with the Premiership that flies in the face of any notion of patriotism or local pride; maybe it's the style of play Ireland adopt these days; maybe it's how we're reduced to dredging the English Championship for England's sloppy seconds; maybe I've just grown out of the sport.

And yet. G'wan the Ireland, give those Ruskies a clobbering. I may refuse to go to the Aviva (spit) for any sport until the prices come down, but I'll still be glued to the TV cheering the lads on. I just wish that I was cheering on a sport that means something to me these days. As William Shatner says, I can't get behind that.

[Jinxy]

All the general admission tickets are sold out, thats for sure. Premiums i dont think so, but then the prices for those tickets are very expensive. It was ridiculous putting in so many premium seats in the place but anyways thats for another day.

I think recession is a huge factor. Football supporters by and large do not have the same level of disposable income as the rugby crowd so obvioulsly will be hit harder by the recession.

I also think the Friday night game, although good for us based in dublin isnt ideally suited to everyone, ie travelling from abroad or down the country so that is also likely to affect numbers.

LR capacity for competitive games was about 17k short of what we have now. So ignoring the croke park years, based on traditional LR figures, I think 50k in for an international game is very good going.

Finally, no one should be going supporting Ireland (Football, rugby or otherwise) for the 'entertainment' value. We are a small country, we dont have the playing pool of a Brazil, we're not going to produce 11 gifted players. Following Ireland is about pride in your country, pride in the jersey, something you cant explain, its what you belong to, its your team and it really really really matters to you if we win lose or draw. Its living every kick of the ball, every tackle, every bad decision. You cant buy this sort of passion, I for one treasure the fact that I have this passion for the Irish team, those that dont, well they dont realise what they are missing.

A short story, a die hard gaa hurling fan came with me to paris this year. His first Ireland away game, may have been his first Ireland game. He was blown away by the experience and that was before the game even started.

Did you cure him?

[bennocelt]

I gave up on the team a while ago, just dont get the buzz from it, too much rubbish surrounding the national team, get much more fun and enjoyment from following the LOI
I hate Delaney and the whole shenanigans with the FAi, but in one sense i would love to shake his hand and say thanks for opening the LOi world to me. I love the LOI now and dont think I would ever give two sh its about the national team, unless I see some LOi representation.
And I have no other sport to follow either, no rugby or gah, 100% football watching, playing coaching, whatever

[Charlie Darwin]

I think there is general apathy towards the team which isn't helped by the rugby-obsessed media.
It depends what papers you read. Excluding GAA from the conversation, the Times and Indo are probably 50/50 rugby and soccer, while the Tribune and Business Post are more rugby-focused, but I think all the rest are soccer-oriented. There's a pretty obvious class division there.

With TV, you could make the argument, but I think it's probably more to do with money. There is far, far less money in rugby, which is why RTE can afford Magners League and Six Nations action while all the good football is left to Sky and Sellotanta.

[Qwerty]

Hand on heart? I'm just not feeling as passionate about the Ireland team as I used to (30 years old, supporting Ireland since I was a wee fella). I have lost interest. As an add-on, I have also followed rugby for that same length of time, so it's not like I've been jumping ship or anything, I have followed both sports passionately and see them as both very different and very similar (as an aside, I fecking hate some of the blow-ins rugby has attracted - mostly the muppet Leinster supporters; even rugby's losing it's innocence)

But soccer? Errrrgh, I dunno it's just so hard to get the passions stoked for the sport anymore. Generally that is, rather than specific teams or tournaments.

Maybe it's the bland stadia that have no uniqueness about them; maybe it's the overpaid, overprotected players, acting like brainless metrosexuals; maybe it's the horrible, horrible cynicism & gamesmanship that cripples every game; maybe it's the constant hyping by Sky or EA that demand I be terribly excited about Stoke vs. Wigan; maybe it's the corruption across the board in every regional association; maybe it's this country's obsession with the Premiership that flies in the face of any notion of patriotism or local pride; maybe it's the style of play Ireland adopt these days; maybe it's how we're reduced to dredging the English Championship for England's sloppy seconds; maybe I've just grown out of the sport.

And yet. G'wan the Ireland, give those Ruskies a clobbering. I may refuse to go to the Aviva (spit) for any sport until the prices come down, but I'll still be glued to the TV cheering the lads on. I just wish that I was cheering on a sport that means something to me these days. As William Shatner says, I can't get behind that.

I think a lot of folks feel the same way, rugby has improved no end over the years. When I was a kid the only rugby on TV was the 5 Nations which was great but now you get the Tri-Nations, Super 14, ITM Cup and the Northern hemisphere club & provincial comps as well. The quality and excitement and pure skill, power and physicality is immense and they're not over paid prima-donnas!

I've gone right off the EPL, of course being a Liverpool supported hasn't helped...I have more interest in the domestic game.

I still maintain an interest in the best Irish players and in the national teams at all age levels but frankly after watching the WC this summer, it was so dire that I don't care whether we qualify of not, each competitive game should be treated as an occasion and enjoyed as that and no more. Friendlies should be sh1t-canned.

My earliest memory of the WC was Mexico 86, the Brazil v France QF is deeply imprinted on my mind as one of the best games I ever saw but I'm wondering if I saw the same now for the first time how good would it really be? I think rugby has taken 'football' to a whole new level and soccer just can't compete - for me at least.

[DannyInvincible]

too much rubbish surrounding the national team

What in particular is "too much rubbish"?

[Jinxy]

I think a lot of folks feel the same way, rugby has improved no end over the years. When I was a kid the only rugby on TV was the 5 Nations which was great but now you get the Tri-Nations, Super 14, ITM Cup and the Northern hemisphere club & provincial comps as well. The quality and excitement and pure skill, power and physicality is immense and they're not over paid prima-donnas!

I've gone right off the EPL, of course being a Liverpool supported hasn't helped...I have more interest in the domestic game.

I still maintain an interest in the best Irish players and in the national teams at all age levels but frankly after watching the WC this summer, it was so dire that I don't care whether we qualify of not, each competitive game should be treated as an occasion and enjoyed as that and no more. Friendlies should be sh1t-canned.

My earliest memory of the WC was Mexico 86, the Brazil v France QF is deeply imprinted on my mind as one of the best games I ever saw but I'm wondering if I saw the same now for the first time how good would it really be? I think rugby has taken 'football' to a whole new level and soccer just can't compete - for me at least.

I don't quite understand this.

[SUB of the day]

I'm still gutted, still hungover.ROI will always be no1 for me.Rugby grand, Gaa fine, but nothing actually hurts like the ball hitting the back of the Irish net.The viewing figures of Roi V Russia, as opposed to Leinster V Munster will be interesting.
.

[Stuttgart88]

One of the things Dunphy got right in his WC 2010 synopsis is that football is afcing a crisis of authority, both on and off the pitch. This is definitely hurting its profile and rugby is generally played in a more honest manner - though I expect if there was any advantage in rugby players diving, they would. You can't exactly complain to the ref about being taken down!

The EPL being hyped beyond rational bounds & its saturation TV coverage doesn't help either.

Still gutted too. Got back to London this afternoon looking for some consolation from shamrock rovers on the RTE latest scores page. I couldn't believe it when I hit the "refresh" button at 4.50pm. At 4.45pm it was all grand.

Experience tells me that good and bad results come in clusters. I'm hoping this bad cluster (Ireland, Arsenal, Rovers...) finished this afternoon.

[Qwerty]

I don't quite understand this.

In terms of spectacle and excitement and honesty! Rugby Football has gone up to a higher level, Association Football has IMO gone down a level.

[bennocelt]

What in particular is "too much rubbish"?

Everything

[Stuttgart88]

I really like my rugby but in almost every top flight game in every country there's a proliferation of atrificial atmosphere injected by Queen or other naff soundbites. The crowd culture just isn't there as much as it is in football- at its best anyway. I thought the support last night was superb (certainly considering the hiding we were getting), much better than the team deserved.

The YBIG boys in the south lower were a credit. The spectacle wasn't lacking last night, only our ability.

[Charlie Darwin]

One of the things Dunphy got right in his WC 2010 synopsis is that football is afcing a crisis of authority, both on and off the pitch. This is definitely hurting its profile and rugby is generally played in a more honest manner - though I expect if there was any advantage in rugby players diving, they would. You can't exactly complain to the ref about being taken down!
It happens in rugby the odd time. Contepomi was guilty of it when he played for Leinsters (all Argentinians are divers, regardless of profession) and ironically was on the receiving end of one against Harlequins a couple of years back.

Rugby is a bit different in general though since a large part of the game is actually predicated on cheating more effectively than the opposition.

[jbyrne]

much better than the team deserved.


maybe change "team" to "performance" to be fair. i dont think the team lacked effort or passion, just ability

[Stuttgart88]

Fair enough - that's what I meant

[Stuttgart88]

Rugby is a bit different in general though since a large part of the game is actually predicated on cheating more effectively than the opposition.I love the fact that the referee's authority is respected so much in rugby. But equally, I used to hate seeing blatant cheating - like Jerry Collins "accidentally" obstructing a full back chasing his up and under and offering a hands up "I couldn't get out of the way ref" shrug - going totally unpunished.

[tetsujin1979]

getting back to the original question, the attendance was given as 50,411. I thought the figure was closer to about 48,000, but either way the official capacity of the stadium is 51,700 so should the question be Have the Irish people abandoned this team, instead of why have they?