View Full Version : Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!
Murfinator
14/10/2011, 5:02 PM
You realise that South African game was part of the infamous double selling ticket policy? Where if you wanted a ticket to watch Ireland play South Africa, you also had to buy a ticket for the following weekend and watch them play Samoa. Which with the double price and the prospect of traveling for those outside of Dublin two weekends in a row is a fairly reasonable turnoff.
Its not really the best example to use considering its a widely accepted failed policy which they rectified immediately after that series of autumn internationals. In fact outrage and disappointment for this policy wouldn't have been so great had the ticket demand not been so high.
To a man, every rugby head I met in college derided both soccer and the GAA.
That's going back a while and maybe it's changed but in my opinion if I meet someone who is primarily a soccer or GAA fan, there's a pretty good chance they'll like the other main sports too.
If I meet someone who is primarily a rugby fan, the odds of them liking the other main sports too goes way down.
Not very scientific but that's my experience.
pineapple stu
14/10/2011, 5:39 PM
A friendly game. That the best you can do?
So what you're saying is that, except for the times when you're not right, you're always right? I see.
mypost
14/10/2011, 6:22 PM
Chris Lowry: No wonder fans are abandoning soccer for honest rugby
Did he change his name from Chrisov Lowryyan in the past 3 days or something?
Nothing can compare to what happened in Paris. When someone deliberately handles the ball twice that sets up a decisive goal during a playoff, in a move with no less than 5 offences in it, then he can start preaching about how hard done by the opposition are.
peadar1987
14/10/2011, 6:45 PM
Did he change his name from Chrisov Lowryyan in the past 3 days or something?
Nothing can compare to what happened in Paris. When someone deliberately handles the ball twice that sets up a decisive goal during a playoff, in a move with no less than 5 offences in it, then he can start preaching about how hard done by the opposition are.
Exactly. The difference between not getting caught for the slightest of contact that barely changed the path of the ball, and deliberately and cynically stopping the ball from certainly going out of play is huge, and if you can't see that, you're an idiot.
That said, I do feel that the Armenian keeper was very hard done by. It hit his arm, but not until well after the ball had been deflected away from the goal by his chest. A free and a yellow would have been a little harsh. A straight red was crazy, I thought the guidelines were refs had to be 100% sure of themselves before making a call like that. (Réiteoir?)
ArdeeBhoy
15/10/2011, 12:39 AM
60k in The Millennium in a few hours to watch their semi on the big screen is a real rugby nation.
Fair play, Cymru.
No chance of that with our rugger buggers or soccer for that matter. GAA maybe, except we don't exactly play internationals...
BonnieShels
15/10/2011, 1:13 AM
60k in The Millennium in a few hours to watch their semi on the big screen is a real rugby nation.
Fair play, Cymru.
No chance of that with our rugger buggers or soccer for that matter. GAA maybe, except we don't exactly play internationals...
I'm sure something would have happened if there was say an Irish team in the semi.
Allez Les Bleus.
ArdeeBhoy
15/10/2011, 8:13 AM
I doubt it.
And Feck les Bleus.
boovidge
15/10/2011, 11:02 AM
That said, I do feel that the Armenian keeper was very hard done by.
Really? He was unfortunate because it was probably instinct, but if you charge out of the box with your hands in the air, trying to stop the ball going over you, then you're asking for a red imo.
peadar1987
15/10/2011, 3:42 PM
Really? He was unfortunate because it was probably instinct, but if you charge out of the box with your hands in the air, trying to stop the ball going over you, then you're asking for a red imo.
Oh yeah, if the ball had hit his hands above his head, then he could have had no complaints. I don't think his arm was in an unnartural position when the ball his it though, and I don't think the fact that it hit his arm prevented a clear goalscoring chance, which is why I thought a straight red was a little excessive.
MeathDrog
15/10/2011, 4:54 PM
Oh yeah, if the ball had hit his hands above his head, then he could have had no complaints. I don't think his arm was in an unnartural position when the ball his it though, and I don't think the fact that it hit his arm prevented a clear goalscoring chance, which is why I thought a straight red was a little excessive.
Once you give the foul in such a case the referee has no choice but to give a red card.
iTalkSport on Setanta was interesting this weekend.
Paul Kimmage seemed to be doing his best to start a row with Brian Kerr over the rugby vs. soccer thing.
Eoin McDevitt pointed out some recent examples of rugby cheating but Eddie O'Sullivan and Kimmage were having none of it.
By the way, WTF is up with Eddies front teeth?
Noelys Guitar
16/10/2011, 10:30 PM
How many Irish football players past or present are in top level finance or banking jobs? I would guess few to zero. How many Irish Rugby players both former and current are in finance or banking jobs? Loads. Says it all. Martin Cahill would be considered an amateur. Morgan Kelly had it right when he called this rugby grouping who somehow end up running banks and financial institutions "slightly dim".
Jinxy
16/10/2011, 11:53 PM
I was thinking of that very point when they were having the debate about private schools on The Frontline last week.
Only one chap in the audience seemed to get why people send their kids to private schools.
It's not about education, it's about social networking.
Remember they published a list in one of the papers of a hundred or so people that directly contributed to our economic downfall?
I'd love to know what schools they went to.
ArdeeBhoy
17/10/2011, 12:52 AM
Who cares about rugby fans or even the players. Sure some of them are even nice people.
:rolleyes:
Just be grateful most of them don't actively care about soccer or it would be even harder to get tickets for the really big games.
IMO, we should try to play the likes of Estonia or the Germany game in Croke anyway. Just to show them a real crowd...
Stuttgart88
17/10/2011, 9:53 AM
Paul Kimmage seemed to be doing his best to start a row with Brian Kerr over the rugby vs. soccer thing.
Eoin McDevitt pointed out some recent examples of rugby cheating but Eddie O'Sullivan and Kimmage were having none of it.
They're scared!
I listed above several cases of clear cheating in rugby, a few involving Irish players. I could have added Alan Quinlan gouging Leo Cullen's eye at Croker.
I should have added the totally discgraceful BO'D spear-tackle incident in NZ, and the even worse reaction by NZ.
As it happens, I think rugby is played in a better spirit than football, although it never gets mentioned when, for example, James McCarthy makes no fuss about being elbowed in the face by Rooney. However, denying cheating in rugby is disingenuous. As the professional era evolves it will only get worse too.
I don't think there's less cheating in Rugby, more that there's less trying to get another player done for nothing than in football. It does happen though, (such as O'Callaghan holding BOD down whilst the ref was the wrong, to get him pinged for playing off his feet, a year or so ago comes to mind). It's probably becoming more into the GAA in recent seasons (the whole going down holding the face). Some of those you mentioned Stutt's did result in long bans after the fact at least - Richards got 3 years, Quinlan a 12 week ban - which is rare enough in football.
To me, the biggest difference is respect for the referee (on the pitch at least). For all their whinging about the decision afterwards, the welsh players just got on with what they viewed an unjust sending off. Players usually refer to the ref as "sir" on the pitch rather than an expletive in football. Worst thing is that FIFA and country FA's could address if they really wanted too.
Stuttgart88
17/10/2011, 10:49 AM
Yes, I agree with the respect for referee business and I think the English Premier League in particular has shamefully only ever paid lip service to this aspect of the game. I loved Contepomi asking Nigel Owens last week "can I ask a question?".
Football managers are allowed far too much whinging time to the press too. As I see it the "there's so much money at stake now" defence doesn't hold much water. If so much depends on avoiding simple human error, then so much money shouldn't be "invested" in football.
However, it's easy to ingrain referee respect culture into good schools, which is typically where rugby players are moulded. Try doing the same to street kids in some slum town in Bolivia. Football's global roots make it harder to develop the same culture.
I think if rugby players could gain advantage by pretending to be knocked over, they would. They can't so they don't.
However, it's easy to ingrain referee respect culture into good schools, which is typically where rugby players are moulded. Try doing the same to street kids in some slum town in Bolivia. Football's global roots make it harder to develop the same culture.
Whatever about south america, the rugby clubs I played with and against in England didn't exactly conform to the stereotype of rugby, and had no problem with the respect of the ref. Start giving 10 metres for backchat, up to and including to giving peno's, and it'd soon stop in football.
Fixer82
17/10/2011, 11:33 AM
To me, the biggest difference is respect for the referee (on the pitch at least). For all their whinging about the decision afterwards, the welsh players just got on with what they viewed an unjust sending off. Players usually refer to the ref as "sir" on the pitch rather than an expletive in football. Worst thing is that FIFA and country FA's could address if they really wanted too.
There will always be cheating in all sports to gain an advantage but re your point above I have to say, as someone who has played Soccer, GAA and Rugby I have never seen as much whinging and moaning at a ref than on the soccer pitch. It is really annoying and I honestly don't know why refs put themselves through it. It is 90 minutes of constant moaning.
GAA is not as bad but does have some element of it, whereas the Rugby is almost non-existent. Totally different culture in the Rugby.
If someone moans too much in GAA or Rugby their own players turn on them...have never seen this in soccer
geysir
17/10/2011, 12:03 PM
Unfortunately soccer is riddled with moaning, starting at schoolboy level, as soon as kids start playing soccer they're moaning, moaning at the ref, in contrast to other sports.
In the professional sport, soccer managers moan, whine and act ungentlemanly after a game. Players moan, supporters moan, journalists moan, everybody moans, sarcasm and cynicism reigns. Moaning is in fact the auto response, entrenched in the game of soccer.
pineapple stu
17/10/2011, 1:11 PM
Unfortunately soccer is riddled with moaning, starting at schoolboy level, as soon as kids start playing soccer they're moaning, moaning at the ref, in contrast to other sports.
Don't forget the parents too, teaching the kids to disrespect the ref.
tetsujin1979
18/10/2011, 9:08 AM
Wales considered faking injuries in semi-final against France, says Warren Gatland: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/other-news/wales-considered-faking-injuries-in-semifinal-against-france-says-warren-gatland-2908568.html
But obviously they never would actually go through with it.
jbyrne
18/10/2011, 9:31 AM
Wales considered faking injuries in semi-final against France, says Warren Gatland: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/other-news/wales-considered-faking-injuries-in-semifinal-against-france-says-warren-gatland-2908568.html
But obviously they never would actually go through with it.
wales have always been known as rugby cheats. there were spear tackles on ferris and rog in our 1/4 final that went unpunished and i lost count of the times a welsh player (maybe we were at it also!) pushed one of our players head into the ground during a ruck, held them on the ground after the ball had gone etc etc
tetsujin1979
18/10/2011, 1:11 PM
Heaslip left his hand in the ruck a few times against the States that was missed by the ref as well, not exactly cheating but definitely an unpunished infringement.
Stuttgart88
18/10/2011, 2:32 PM
What, like Simon Cox? Shame!
It's a better class of cheating though.
paul_oshea
18/10/2011, 6:32 PM
There is a difference, i think the moaning is almost a release, roaring at a ref. If you get told off in rugby you can channel that aggression by going in with a big hit straight away on the opposition.
You don't have that outlet for any pent up frustration in soccer really. So the "moaning" is more than just moaning.
Spudulika
18/10/2011, 6:39 PM
From personal experience I've heard more bitching and moaning on the football pitch than rugby and GAA combined. Not to say it's not there in other codes, just that it's part and parcel of the sport. Rugby is better policed (often policed from within sides) while GAA has it's moments but is generally more at ease with itself. One of the worst sports I've ever known for non-stop bitchfesting is ice hockey. Constant stream of abuse from benches, mouthing on the ice and it's not just in N America, it's around Europe too. Yet it seems to escape the same punishment as, say, football gets.
I'd love to see refs give out straight reds for players who swear at officials in football. A stream of red cards would quickly happen, followed by a general copping on and clampdown by sponsors and tv people.
MeathDrog
18/10/2011, 8:23 PM
There is a difference, i think the moaning is almost a release, roaring at a ref. If you get told off in rugby you can channel that aggression by going in with a big hit straight away on the opposition.
You don't have that outlet for any pent up frustration in soccer really. So the "moaning" is more than just moaning.
You do, it's called self control.
Charlie Darwin
18/10/2011, 9:02 PM
There is a difference, i think the moaning is almost a release, roaring at a ref. If you get told off in rugby you can channel that aggression by going in with a big hit straight away on the opposition.
You don't have that outlet for any pent up frustration in soccer really. So the "moaning" is more than just moaning.
I never thought about it like that but it's a good point. I wouldn't overstate it though - intimidating/putting doubt in the mind of the referee as a tactic is rife in soccer but doesn't really exist in rugby.
old git
18/10/2011, 9:10 PM
From personal experience I've heard more bitching and moaning on the football pitch than rugby and GAA combined. Not to say it's not there in other codes, just that it's part and parcel of the sport. Rugby is better policed (often policed from within sides) while GAA has it's moments but is generally more at ease with itself. One of the worst sports I've ever known for non-stop bitchfesting is ice hockey. Constant stream of abuse from benches, mouthing on the ice and it's not just in N America, it's around Europe too. Yet it seems to escape the same punishment as, say, football gets.
I'd love to see refs give out straight reds for players who swear at officials in football. A stream of red cards would quickly happen, followed by a general copping on and clampdown by sponsors and tv people.
agree with you on bitching & moaning on a soccer pitch, but on the plus side soccer does not have the upper class eye goughing ,players punching one n other / and wrestling & dragging as game goes on during rugby clashes and the good old gaa mass brawl everybody in 30 players / subs hurleys the lot and referee stands and watches and throws in ball in after they all calm down... lets be honest every sport has its fair amount of swearing at referees these days .
peadar1987
19/10/2011, 8:22 AM
I heard and interview with Sir Clive Woodward where he was asked why rugby players were so much more respectful towards match officials than footballers. He said that the only reason was because they wouldn't get away with it. If players were penalised in football like they were in rugby for abusing the ref, we wouldn't have the problems we do today.
I'd bring in a league rule at the beginning of the season, and publicise it so everyone is clear that if they abuse the ref, it's a straight red card, and a week's wages to charity. Then we'd see how quickly Wayne Rooney would open his mouth to protest that throw-in.
I'd bring in a league rule at the beginning of the season, and publicise it so everyone is clear that if they abuse the ref, it's a straight red card, and a week's wages to charity. Then we'd see how quickly Wayne Rooney would open his mouth to protest that throw-in.
Wouldn't need to be as extreme - keep moving the ball forward 10 metres, as per rugby. If it turns into a penalty, so what. The Blazers have no interest in it, they'd rather ponce about with "Respect" campaigns....
pineapple stu
19/10/2011, 9:16 AM
There is a difference, i think the moaning is almost a release, roaring at a ref. If you get told off in rugby you can channel that aggression by going in with a big hit straight away on the opposition.
You don't have that outlet for any pent up frustration in soccer really. So the "moaning" is more than just moaning.
When I reffed in the UCD Superleague many moons ago, someone told me that alright. Ignore any mild abuse ("F@*# off ref!!") for that reason. Obviously if people are getting right in your face, then that's different. Seemed to work for me.
OwlsFan
19/10/2011, 9:35 AM
Despite the moaning, opinionated pundits talking through their anal passages, diving, cheating, 0-0 draws, defensive formations, people who think Ireland are world beaters, overpaid players, violence from supporters, hang ups about the EPL, hang ups about the LoI, monotonous chants, spectators rather than supporters, barstoolers who criticise, boos for poor performances, the impossibility of getting many offside decisions correct, poor refereeing decisions, FIFA, Sepp Blatter, Davey Keogh as a celebrity, myopic managers, myopic supporters, millionaire owners of clubs, "Champions" league for 4th place teams, weakened sides in cup competitions, Wednesday in the 1st division etc etc - it is still the best sport by a country mile because it is truly the people's sport played in every country on earth. No other sport compares.
Fixer82
19/10/2011, 1:28 PM
There is a difference, i think the moaning is almost a release, roaring at a ref. If you get told off in rugby you can channel that aggression by going in with a big hit straight away on the opposition.
You don't have that outlet for any pent up frustration in soccer really. So the "moaning" is more than just moaning.
not buying any of that for a second. It is to do with ill-discipline and lack of respect. This lack of respect is evident because it goes unpunished. In GAA a ball can be moved another 10 yards up the pitch for moaning or in Rugby it can lead to a yellow card.
In soccer it is part of the culture and ignored for the most part
Acornvilla
19/10/2011, 3:14 PM
not buying any of that for a second. It is to do with ill-discipline and lack of respect. This lack of respect is evident because it goes unpunished. In GAA a ball can be moved another 10 yards up the pitch for moaning or in Rugby it can lead to a yellow card.
In soccer it is part of the culture and ignored for the most part
at least twice I've seen lads sent off for descent this season for longford so Moaning does get punished!
BonnieShels
19/10/2011, 6:21 PM
at least twice I've seen lads sent off for descent this season for longford so Moaning does get punished!
Obviously an away game. Ne'er a mountain near the Flansiro.
pineapple stu
20/10/2011, 8:02 AM
I'm just disappointed he left in the "s". That would have been a hilarious typo.
French Toasht
20/10/2011, 10:22 AM
I heard and interview with Sir Clive Woodward where he was asked why rugby players were so much more respectful towards match officials than footballers. He said that the only reason was because they wouldn't get away with it. If players were penalised in football like they were in rugby for abusing the ref, we wouldn't have the problems we do today.
I'd bring in a league rule at the beginning of the season, and publicise it so everyone is clear that if they abuse the ref, it's a straight red card, and a week's wages to charity. Then we'd see how quickly Wayne Rooney would open his mouth to protest that throw-in.
I'd say a big part of the respect for refs issue in rugby has got to do with the fact that refs have microphones, so every protestation by a player can be heard on tv.
Murfinator
20/10/2011, 12:07 PM
Its not hard to belief theres just a stronger culture of respect amongst Rugby players than soccer players. Its apparent in all facets, fans are less abrasive with less booing of national anthems (some exceptions such as Quade Cooper), virtually zero riots among crowds or missiles thrown on pitches. Players respect each other more, generally the losing team will form a line saluting the victorious team and its commonplace in the six nations for teams to have a meal with one another post-game too. Very little bad blood from a game is carried off the pitch. With refs theres very little questioning their authority allowed on the pitch, theres the odd Luke Fitzgerald moment that alludes to soccer practice but generally players don't crowd out a ref, don't demand things with the ref and manager typically won't criticise a ref after a game. That last part has happened more than usual in this Wold Cup with all of Samoa, South Africa and Wales having complaints but that is relatively unusual for the sport. 3 out of 52 games supposedly impacted by refereeing would be a remarkably low number in a soccer world cup. I remember we had two on the same "day" last time with Germany/England and Argentina/Mexico.
bennocelt
20/10/2011, 1:39 PM
You do realise there is a class thing with this as well?
Charlie Darwin
20/10/2011, 3:33 PM
theres the odd Luke Fitzgerald moment that alludes to soccer practice
How on earth does sticking your fingers in somebody's eye socket "allude to soccer practice"?
Strongbow10
20/10/2011, 3:53 PM
Rugby is far more civilised in terms of support but the passion is also alot less intense from a supporter in my opinion. Especially in this country. Theres a good core of soccer fans, probably alot of people in here would be just that. The type who follows come rain or shine. Unfortunately in ireland we have alot of fans who flit between things that attract attention and perceived success. I know so many folks who were soccer through and through (albeit they don't even know the LOI exists) but when our star fades they turn straight to rugby and almost instantaneously they are experts in all things rugby.
Its a cycle really, if we qualify for the euros you will see the same mugs (who barely watched us in the qualifying campaign) lapping up the occasion and playing the armchair pundit to perfection once again.
I love to see the rugby lads do well, but as one previous poster said there is a class thing aswell. Rugby in Ireland is more accessible to the average person but its still followed by the elite more so. It also has noticeable ties with business, a bit like golf in the states. I've seen countless people who know nothing about the game swat up on it so they can brown nose their boss (who also has no idea about the game really but likes to sound knowledgable). Its attracted alot of folk who are not particularly passionate about sport, but its now popular enough to make them believe that they are in the social loop that comes with it. Thats not to say there isn't a hardcore following in place aswell, just like us in the football. But in Ireland as the old cliche goes, we have alot of bandwagon jumpers who just want to be entertained. Punters. Who will move onto the next fad when the thrill of being associated with a winner fades.
The funny thing that struck me about rugby was the amount of women I heard having an opinion on it. Now im not being sexist, women can love their sport too. But ye know the type of women i'm talking about. The women who would usually watch paint dry before they watch sport. Alot of them watch it because they fancy one of the players or else its something they want to get involved in when all the gang are down the pub talking about it over their bacardi's and coke.
Its fashionable right now whereas the football is not. In ireland anyways.
jbyrne
20/10/2011, 4:16 PM
Rugby is far more civilised in terms of support but the passion is also alot less intense from a supporter in my opinion. Especially in this country.
you've obviously never been to Thomond park for a heneken cup or leinster match. The passion, support and colour puts any football occasion in this country to shame
pineapple stu
20/10/2011, 4:24 PM
Leinster does none of that - there's a chant of "Leinster, Leinster" every now and again, and people wave branded flags they just bought in the shop. Fair dues to them for doing it and all, but the notion it puts any football occasion to shame is nonsense. The FAI Cup Final last year, for example - way more passion, support and colour. Ditto Rovers' European ties (ok, the Spurs game wasn't in this country, but I still think it's relevant) or even the singing section in Lansdowne Road for competitive games.
Strongbow10
20/10/2011, 4:29 PM
you've obviously never been to Thomond park for a heneken cup or leinster match. The passion, support and colour puts any football occasion in this country to shame
i'm talking in an international sense.
Out of interest, what were crowds like for Leinster matches say maybe 7-8 years ago? Not hectic i'd imagine.
Club rugby in ireland is on its arse. My own hometown side play top flight AIL rugby and they dont get 100 fans.
I hate to sound cynical, I just know of so many "passionate on the surface" rugby fans who see their following as a way of suburban life and status. A relative of mine recently got married and she was an avid Man Utd fan. The last 2 years its been thrown to the wayside in favour of going to all the Leinster games with her colleagues and hubby (who has absolutely zero interest in sport) and they are all proud members of "the leinster faithful" as they call it. And there are hundreds if not thousands just like this.
Its a mere passing interest. Its a good representation of us irish as sports fans. Looking for the next fix.
Charlie Darwin
20/10/2011, 4:37 PM
7 or 8 years ago Leinster would more or less fill Donnybrook. Now they more or less fill the RDS, which is maybe 5 times the size?
jbyrne
21/10/2011, 11:58 AM
Leinster does none of that - there's a chant of "Leinster, Leinster" every now and again, and people wave branded flags they just bought in the shop. Fair dues to them for doing it and all, but the notion it puts any football occasion to shame is nonsense. The FAI Cup Final last year, for example - way more passion, support and colour. Ditto Rovers' European ties (ok, the Spurs game wasn't in this country, but I still think it's relevant) or even the singing section in Lansdowne Road for competitive games.
it was weak before but has much improved. was at the 1/4 final of hein cup this year and it was the loudest the new stadium has been to date by far. you can only compare like for like and that 1/4 final was a sell out, a sea of blue and noise deafening. if the FAI cup final (only saw on tv) was better than that then id be delighted.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.