Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[amaccann]

It's a poor article. The implication seems to be that rugby has replaced soccer in the hearts of the general public when it's more complicated than that. The FAI is coming down from the highs of the 90s and early 00s and crowds were always going to decrease, especially as they've dithered over ticket pricing. Rugby is probably over its peak too but that came more recently. It's going to decline in popularity too, especially if the Irish team and provinces aren't competing as much.

I wouldn't count on rugby going away. I don't know if you watched the Munster / Leinster match, but Thomand Park was hopping; the atmosphere was amazing (speaking as an Ulsterman btw) and really puts the soccer crowds further in the shade. For a sport dismissed in this thread as being supported by women & accountants, Thomand was buzzing.

The so-called golden era of Rugby is over, but the crowds are staying put & the IRFU have built solid foundations for the provinces to continue being attractive for investment & competitive on the pitch. Amid the misery of our times, it's good to see homegrown franchises reaching out and becoming world-class. As I said before, the key has been building things up from community level. Local lads done good.

But anyway...

The reason why I posted the Irish Times article because to me it raised an interesting point. When you think of all the articles that have been printed about the Irish soccer team in the last 12 months, they have nearly all been inherently negative. Stephen Ireland, Jermaine Pennant, even the James McCarthy saga have all (in my mind) served to portray the sphere of Irish international soccer with an air of the soap opera. There must be more talk wasted on the latest fecking drama than on the football. Is this some sort of legacy of Saipan - that the Ireland team can't survive as a public entity without a persistent crisis?

I'm not trying to suggest there's one simple reason why fans are staying away, but when you consistently open the newspapers and read of the Ireland team treated as some kind of bloody melodrama, or worse - a budget England team - even a long time fan like myself is slow to care when the team actually gets a chance to run onto the pitch.

[Crosby87]

Good post Amaccan.
One thing that bothers me however is that the McCarthy thing was totally baseless. I mean the media were just blatantly making **** up. So thats going to be a losing battle if it all depends on negativity coming out of lies. You would think it would sway things in the OTHER direction once proven to be malicious BS as was the case when the Red Rover came into the game last week.

Also is there not room for both Rugby and Football? Fecks sake, Ireland is'nt that small.
If I can watch 4 or 5 different sports at the same time on say a Sunday afternoon, believe me anyone can enjoy two at seperate times..... Why the Stigma of liking both sports? Why do people have to choose? Paul whats your opinion about that?
I do not get the whole rivalry thing. Also DeJa vu this conversation almost happened to an exact "T" on here a few months ago. Don't have time to look it up and quote it but it almost seems like the whole Rugby/Football problem is caused by people wanting to say the same things over and over about the Rugby/Football problem.

Lastly OBVIOUSLY when you start to win consistently or in a fun way people watch. Not directed at anyone on here but Duh. Doesn't matter what sport it is...Winning brings people together. my Dad is the type who is more likely to be the next US President (Never) than ever in his 60 odd years watch a Rugby game and he asked me the other day if I knew IRL beat England. It just...when you win people who would not otherwise notice fill the ****ing seats!! In any sport Lads!

[Predator]

Interesting article in the weekend's Irish Times, that brings up the issue of poor crowds at the Ireland soccer matches, as well as rugby's leap in popularity:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0402/1224293646626.html

I don't think it's a fair article, in fact in places I think it's a little bitter, but one thing it does raise & is worth considering, is that the currency of Irish national football is being severely watered down & discredited by the antics of players like Stephen Ireland or Jermaine Pennant. It's a fair point in my view. The FAI should be doing more to fight the negative press that's surely eroding how the national team is viewed both on the inside and out.I don't think the 'currency' of the national team should be dictated by bad press associated with said players. The author makes the point about Charlton and the glory days, but the same kind of granny-ruling was going on then too, but we got to major tournaments, so it was fine...


Can you ever see [Trapattoni] appearing on the Late Late Show and winning the audience in the same way as the gruff and uncomplicated Jack Charlton did?What a ridiculous thing to say. Trapattoni did appear on the Late Late Show and showed dignity. It's unfair to compare him to Charlton in this light, considering that English is not his mother tongue (not that English was necessarily Charlton's either). Trapattoni is an entertaining, animated character. He's well-respected internationally. I don't blame him for Rugby's recent upsurge in popularity. It's too late for me to rant.

[mypost]

I've been paying E50 for all the competitive games so far; that's E150 for the three games (the article linked says competitive tickets are between E45 and E60; don't know how you're paying E34?

You've been had. I haven't paid 50 at all since Lansdowne reopened.


I know many would love a deal where they are guaranteed tickets for big games but don't want to go to friendlies and qualifiers v Andorra etc but it doesn't work like that.

Nor should it. Any Ireland fan should want to go to any home game, be it Andorra or Argentina. Winning the game is the point of going, not based on who is trying to beat us.


Lets be honest here, if you took the average wage of a rugby, soccer or GAA crowd the rugby fans would be a good bit higher.
I know plenty of guys that go to rugby games that have never played the sport and have no desire to do so.
They are not involved or affiliated with any club.
Going to a game of rugby is a social event for them.
It's almost like networking in a way.
A lot of them would work in banks and there is a strong rugby school culture in our financial institutions.
This is why the Aviva will always be full for 6 nations rugby games regardless of how the team is performing.
I know a good few women that go to the games that know nothing about rugby.
And I mean NOTHING.
They wouldn't be caught dead at a soccer, hurling or football game though.
So it's not just performance that affects attendances.

Women in this country enjoy rugby more imo, as it's much more people-friendly. Few women have the desire or the patience to go to every game and have them and their possessions searched, have their drink bottles confiscated, or the bottle tops removed if bought in the stadium, forced to sit in a segregated area, put up with the choice language from those around them, and/or herded in like cattle after the game. They want to mingle with strangers and fans of the opposition, sit where they like whenever they want, come and go from the stadium when it suits them. Now foreign girls will put up with it in countries where rugby doesn't exist and football is the No. 1 sport, but not as many will here. Rugby gives them greater freedom to do as they please.

As regards rugger's "popularity", it's a temporary thing. Only a few weeks ago, the Irish egg-chasers were playing badly, losing games, getting a lashing in the press, and struggling to get big crowds for friendlies. Then they beat England, and are apparantly world cup "contenders" again. A poor WC for them, and a qualification for Poland and Ukraine for us, will see the proper order restored again.

As regards our crowds, even in the current climate, there is a market for entertainment in this country, and people are prepared to pay for it if the price is right, be it football, other sports, theatres, concerts, cinemas, nightclubs etc. Yes, the style of football isn't going to make your eyes water, but it's not supposed to. Everything our team does on the pitch now, is geared towards qualifying for Euro 2012. As long as we do that, nobody will care how entertaining it was.

[Jinxy]

Another reason why it's so important to qualify for the euros is the concentrated exposure the public gets to the team in a tournament setting.
We haven't had that in ages.

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't count on rugby going away. I don't know if you watched the Munster / Leinster match, but Thomand Park was hopping; the atmosphere was amazing (speaking as an Ulsterman btw) and really puts the soccer crowds further in the shade. For a sport dismissed in this thread as being supported by women & accountants, Thomand was buzzing.

The so-called golden era of Rugby is over, but the crowds are staying put & the IRFU have built solid foundations for the provinces to continue being attractive for investment & competitive on the pitch. Amid the misery of our times, it's good to see homegrown franchises reaching out and becoming world-class. As I said before, the key has been building things up from community level. Local lads done good.

But anyway...

The reason why I posted the Irish Times article because to me it raised an interesting point. When you think of all the articles that have been printed about the Irish soccer team in the last 12 months, they have nearly all been inherently negative. Stephen Ireland, Jermaine Pennant, even the James McCarthy saga have all (in my mind) served to portray the sphere of Irish international soccer with an air of the soap opera. There must be more talk wasted on the latest fecking drama than on the football. Is this some sort of legacy of Saipan - that the Ireland team can't survive as a public entity without a persistent crisis?

I'm not trying to suggest there's one simple reason why fans are staying away, but when you consistently open the newspapers and read of the Ireland team treated as some kind of bloody melodrama, or worse - a budget England team - even a long time fan like myself is slow to care when the team actually gets a chance to run onto the pitch.

I'm actually not that concerned by rugby's rise and the likelihood that it will stay up there, to varying degrees. There's room for the 3 big sports in Ireland to co-exist.

Charlie D is bsolutely right when he says the situation is more complicated. It's a very nuanced situation.

The media coverage is certainly a factor. The consistent focus on Stephen Ireland when most regular Irish football team observers had put the whole issue to bed was representative of the press not really focusing on the right things. Most of us here had identified that central midfield was too soft, and that a ball winner rather than a wispish attacking midfielder was what was required. The James McCarthy hysteria was a further example. In The Indo's case I actually think there is a very real attempt to undermine the FAI & the national team.

One big factor that rugby has in its favour is that Irish journalists write about the main team's games because they're played in Ireland. Our international footballers play in England, so the Irish papers buy syndicated English press articles covering the EPL games. You could pick up an Irish paper on Monday and not have a rashers that Shane Long is in the form of his life. There's a feel-good among many of us at the moment because of Long, Walters, Duff, Wilson, Duffy etc.. It'd be nice to think that there's be a quarter page article in the main papers on Monday along these lines, but I'm not holding my breath. Rooney & Giggs will get far more coverage I expect.

Crowds have been up and down before in football, even since the game's profile increased massively under Jack. You have to earn the right to a meaningful game against a big team in the football. The rugby calendar and small number of teams means that there are big rugby games all the time, though hacks like Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times is of the belief that international rugby's stock is diminishing because of the frequency of games between the same teams.

The wealth generated by the big football leagues has pushed the profile and status of international football down. FIFA is quite keen to take on the clubs and they have my full support.

Sport in Europe exhibits a "pyramidal" structure. I think it's fair to say that the top of the pyramid in Irish rugby is in a far healthier state than that of Irish football, but that the bottom of the Irish football pyramid is far healthier than in rugby, and probably even the middle. 6,000 clubs in 96 leagues. Highest number of volunteers. Highest number of participants. Even the point about the pyramid is evidence of the "more complicated" nature of the argument.

[Jinxy]

Bob Casey had an article in the IT not so long ago talking about the drop in adult playing numbers in rugby.
You have to bear in mind that in general the media coverage of rugby in this country is a massive love-in which feeds the view that rugby is this juggernaut that is constantly gathering momentum.
In reality, I can't remember the last time I saw a kid walking around with a rugby ball under his arm.
I see plenty of kids carrying hurleys and footballs (soccer and gaelic) though around Dublin.
Even the massively hyped schools rugby scene paints a misleading picture.
Huge numbers of those kids stop playing altogether once they leave school.

[tetsujin1979]

Did any of the articles on the Munster - Leinster game mention that Leinster returned almost 4,000 tickets from their allocation?

[Stuttgart88]

Much more balanced view from Eamon Sweeney (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ticket-policy-no-bundle-of-laughs-for-fickle-fans-2607437.html)

[shakermaker1982]

If we qualify for Euro 2012 football will blow rugby out of the news for at least 6 months.

As long as young fellas (& girls) are still playing football and trying to be the next Duffer, Keano or Seamus Coleman then we'll be ok.

The lack of numbers at games is easily fixed if prices are reduced further. The FAI have made a start and I'm pleased that they've stopped bundling tickets. It shows that they are listening to the paying public.

[jbyrne]

Did any of the articles on the Munster - Leinster game mention that Leinster returned almost 4,000 tickets from their allocation?

but snapped up in minutes by munster fans. think the returns were due to the 6N just being over, a big match next sat in the aviva and the probable need to stay overnight (and the expense involved) given the ko time

i was interested to hear the €40 ticket cost to the munster v leinster match being described as "very reasonable" on setanta last week yet the FAI get abused for charging the same amount to an international

[Jinxy]

It's very reasonable for the average rugby fan.

[jbyrne]

It's very reasonable for the average rugby fan.

the D4 rugby fan maybe but most munster fans are similar in means to the normal Irish football supporter

[mypost]

Did any of the articles on the Munster - Leinster game mention that Leinster returned almost 4,000 tickets from their allocation?

What do they need an "allocation" for? It's rugger, and no segregation. They just need to buy a ticket and turn up.

[Jinxy]

the D4 rugby fan maybe but most munster fans are similar in means to the normal Irish football supporter

Haha! :D
They are yeah.
Sure they're all dockers and bin men.
Gimme a break.

[Charlie Darwin]

The average fan of either sport in any part of the country is reasonably well off. The idea that rugby is the "common man's" sport in Munster is one of the more bizarre and successful aspects of the club's mythology.

[jbyrne]

Haha! :D
They are yeah.
Sure they're all dockers and bin men.
Gimme a break.

do you regularly attend munster matches?
if not, you are not positioned to comment


The idea that rugby is the "common man's" sport in Munster is one of the more bizarre and successful aspects of the club's mythology.

based on what evidence exactly?

[Charlie Darwin]

Based on an absence of evidence. Rugby does have more of a spread of support across class boundaries in Limerick (not in Cork) than it traditionally has in Dublin, but with a few exceptions the people who play it are just as middle class as their Leinster counterparts. Rugby is not as democratic a sport as soccer - it requires an expensive diet and access to the right equipment and like all sports its support base reflects the make-up of its participants.

[jbyrne]

Rugby is not as democratic a sport as soccer - it requires an expensive diet and access to the right equipment and like all sports its support base reflects the make-up of its participants.

all to support a team???

there is a far more working class support for munster than there is for leinster. its a much more comparible crowd to that that follows the international football team

[Jinxy]

Based on an absence of evidence. Rugby does have more of a spread of support across class boundaries in Limerick (not in Cork) than it traditionally has in Dublin, but with a few exceptions the people who play it are just as middle class as their Leinster counterparts. Rugby is not as democratic a sport as soccer - it requires an expensive diet and access to the right equipment and like all sports its support base reflects the make-up of its participants.

And schools.

[Charlie Darwin]

You missed the end of the sentence. Most people don't randomly pick a sport to watch on TV. It's generally one they are involved in or were at a younger age. Contrary to popular opinion, the youth of Limerick tend to play soccer or GAA like the rest of the country. The image of working class kids kicking grubbers under burnt out cars is not reflected in real life.


And schools.
Exactly. Rugby in Munster is based just as much around schools as it is in Leinster. It just happens that there are more non-fee-paying rugby schools in Limerick than there are in Dublin, Cork or Belfast.

[Stuttgart88]

Contrary to popular opinion, the youth of Limerick tend to play soccer or GAA like the rest of the country. A fact endorsed by my mate who lives there. I think I mentioned it in an earlier post on this thread.

My nephew is growing up across the road from Terenure College and very near Bushy Park. He plays GAA, soccer and rugby, and still finds time for tennis. I think his mates are the same. It's not as if kids play one or the other exclusively these days. Kids have great opportunity because of the work of clubs and volunteers.

[Kingdom]

A fact endorsed by my mate who lives there. I think I mentioned it in an earlier post on this thread.

My nephew is growing up across the road from Terenure College and very near Bushy Park. He plays GAA, soccer and rugby, and still finds time for tennis. I think his mates are the same. It's not as if kids play one or the other exclusively these days. Kids have great opportunity because of the work of clubs and volunteers.

Hope he's playing for Rangers? Haven't played there in years.

[paul_oshea]

One of the stutts plays bogball why i never....ive seen it all now!

[jbyrne]

Exactly. Rugby in Munster is based just as much around schools as it is in Leinster. It just happens that there are more non-fee-paying rugby schools in Limerick than there are in Dublin, Cork or Belfast.

and your point is?

[pineapple stu]

Quite clearly described in his posts.

[paul_oshea]

I think the whole cluxton incident brings home the point i made on the first incarnation of this type thread. GAA is the biggest sport in Ireland hands down. GAA heads don't like what they see as the "pussy" element in soccer, the feighning injury, the rolling around, the soft frees for fair shoulders(that used to be let go) etc etc. Its the neantherdal element of GAA/Aussie Rules/NFL/etc, the basic male huga huga instinct. The crossover from GAA to rugby has ten folded over the last decade as soccer was never seen as their "other" sport really, but rugby is as they can identify more with it. Hence why you see counties like tipperary for example gaining huge interest in the rugby over the last few years, or laois/offaly support and player population increasing also, they would have always had a small element of support but now it has increased dramatically. As long as GAA remains the biggest sport in the country, which it will, soccer has a real and present "threat" from rugby - from a playing point view but also attendance, for example at a certain age young players will have to crossover probably about the time when they would get noticed i.e. around 14/15.

[gspain]

I think the whole cluxton incident brings home the point i made on the first incarnation of this type thread. GAA is the biggest sport in Ireland hands down. GAA heads don't like what they see as the "pussy" element in soccer, the feighning injury, the rolling around, the soft frees for fair shoulders(that used to be let go) etc etc. Its the neantherdal element of GAA/Aussie Rules/NFL/etc, the basic male huga huga instinct. The crossover from GAA to rugby has ten folded over the last decade as soccer was never seen as their "other" sport really, but rugby is as they can identify more with it. Hence why you see counties like tipperary for example gaining huge interest in the rugby over the last few years, or laois/offaly support and player population increasing also, they would have always had a small element of support but now it has increased dramatically. As long as GAA remains the biggest sport in the country, which it will, soccer has a real and present "threat" from rugby - from a playing point view but also attendance, for example at a certain age young players will have to crossover probably about the time when they would get noticed i.e. around 14/15.


The biggest sport i nthe country for over a quarter of a century has been football. repeated surveys have proved that as has tv viewing figures albeit for the national team and not the league of Ireland. GAA is the biggest spectator sport in the country because most Irish people prefer to support Man Utd and Liverpool rather than Cork City or Shamrock Rovers.

Rugby is perceived as cool and marketed well for the "event junkie" but it is nowehere near the playing numbers of football or indeed GAA.

[Jinxy]

Which surveys and which viewing figures would those be Gspain?

[paul_oshea]

The biggest sport i nthe country for over a quarter of a century has been football. repeated surveys have proved that as has tv viewing figures albeit for the national team and not the league of Ireland. GAA is the biggest spectator sport in the country because most Irish people prefer to support Man Utd and Liverpool rather than Cork City or Shamrock Rovers.

Rugby is perceived as cool and marketed well for the "event junkie" but it is nowehere near the playing numbers of football or indeed GAA.

You mean players registered is that right? Viewing figures being for big events like ireland losing out to france or beating holland? Apart from these over the course of 10 or so years, GAA averages far better figures than Soccer. Its a fact gspain no matter how many stats you come up with that the interest in GAA is far bigger than soccer. I prefer soccer btw, but I'm telling it as it is.

[Stuttgart88]

I had to do some research into all this last year.

The Irish Sports Monitor published by the Irish Sports Council and ESRI are the best we can get for participation, volunteering, attendance etc. You can find them online - just google it.

I had to ask for TV viewing figures directly from the agency that provides the research for RTE. It only covers 2008 and 2009. I posted the results earlier in this thread, but unfortunately it was sent to me in s'sheet format so I just posted the summaries. It's all much of a muchness really. Big GAA, soccer & rugby events all get good figures, less big events don't. The soccer numbers stacked up well versus rugby in 2009. Peak soccer was higher, average soccer was lower but I think it's fair to say Grand Slam expectations from the start would haver bolstered rugby's figures whereas games against Georgia, Cyrprus & Montenegro didn't do the soccer averages any good. That said, Italy v Ireland in the rugby wasn't great.

Figures given to me directly from the FAI:

450,000 regular participants
3,000 clubs
96 leagues
Strong growth in female participation, but this still has a good way to go.

[Jinxy]

Stuttgart do you know how they defined 'participation'?
I'm involved in research myself so I'm always keen to read the fine print in these things.

[paul_oshea]

I had to do some research into all this last year.

The Irish Sports Monitor published by the Irish Sports Council and ESRI backs up GS's participation claims. Unfortunately 2007 & 2008 I think are the most up-to-date. You can find them online.

I had to ask for TV viewing figures directly from the agency that provides the research for RTE. Again, it only goes back 2 years. I posted the results earlier in this thread, but unfortunately it was sent in s'sheet format so I just posted the summaries.

Figures given to me directly from the FAI:

450,000 regular participants
3,000 clubs
96 leagues
Strong growth in female participation, but this still has a good way to go.

Including men and women there are definitely more participants in Gaelic(camogie/hurling/gaelic football/wootball) than soccer.

[gspain]

The eSRI study mentioned by Stutts is the most recent and most referenced.

The first study I recall was in 1986 announced as Jack Charlton was becoming Irish manager. In fairness then it was greatly skewed by Dublin (i.e. GAA was stronger in the rest of the country) however since then the gap has got wider - off the top of my head it was 13% for football and 8% for gaelic.

Note these are figures for the Republic of Ireland. The GAA claim to be the biggest sporting organisation as they combine their 2 sports and take the whole island.

Even without researching the studys just take a look at the number of leagues and clubs throughout the country. The star or the Herald have excellent supplements.

Re the tv viewing figures I use www.medialive2.com or you can search here on foot.ie for the figures which have been produced before. Rememebr also that the football matches are also on Sky (in HD) or the British channels whereas the GAA matches are typically only on RTE. Furthermore there is far more of a culture of going to the pub to watch a big football match than there is in the GAA.

The GAA is miles behind football in terms of participation and interest although the interest is in Liverpool and Man Utd and the national team. That is a fact and the studies bear that out no matter what you think.

[gspain]

Stuttgart do you know how they defined 'participation'?
I'm involved in research myself so I'm always keen to read the fine print in these things.


registered players eg playing for a club whether it be St. Kevins Boys, Ballyboden St Endas or Blackrock.

it doesn't cover things like astro parks, work leagues etc

[Stuttgart88]

I think GAA wins on most counts. Volunteering, attendance, participation. It helps that 2 very different sports are counted as GAA though! :) Soccer stacks up very well and beats rugby by a mile. Soccer & GAA participation & attendance fell. ESRI says this is definitely recession-linked. Overall soccer attendance was second only to gaelic football and was higher than hurling. Rugby participation grew, but still to a relatively small leve vs. GAA and soccer.

I'm too lazy to go throgh it with a fine-toothed comb but

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20091216163532/BKMNEXT155.pdf

p29 & 30 are probably most of interest.

[Jinxy]

The eSRI study mentioned by Stutts is the most recent and most referenced.

The first study I recall was in 1986 announced as Jack Charlton was becoming Irish manager. In fairness then it was greatly skewed by Dublin (i.e. GAA was stronger in the rest of the country) however since then the gap has got wider - off the top of my head it was 13% for football and 8% for gaelic.

Note these are figures for the Republic of Ireland. The GAA claim to be the biggest sporting organisation as they combine their 2 sports and take the whole island.

Even without researching the studys just take a look at the number of leagues and clubs throughout the country. The star or the Herald have excellent supplements.

Re the tv viewing figures I use www.medialive2.com or you can search here on foot.ie for the figures which have been produced before. Rememebr also that the football matches are also on Sky (in HD) or the British channels whereas the GAA matches are typically only on RTE. Furthermore there is far more of a culture of going to the pub to watch a big football match than there is in the GAA.

The GAA is miles behind football in terms of participation and interest although the interest is in Liverpool and Man Utd and the national team. That is a fact and the studies bear that out no matter what you think.

You see it's hard to take you seriously when you throw out a comment like that because it's not based on facts, just a personal desire for this to be the case.

[Stuttgart88]

Ballpark Figures (http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Research/Ballpark_Figures/Ballpark_Figures.pdf) from 2007, ISC & ESRI. I think it's fair to say that this is a bit out of date.

The attendance figures are not consistent with the figures in the ISM linked above, unless GAA has fallen, soccer risen.

[Stuttgart88]

Jinxy, I think GS has a point to some extent: I'd love to see a poll: who is more popular in Ireland, Man United or Leinster? Man United and Leinster / Munster combined?

Whatever about the FAI and LOI's self-inflicted wounds it is simply not possible to have the standard of football played regularly in Ireland that would attracts tens of thousands of spectators regularly. The wage bills required would be unaffordable.

As I mentioned before, the bottom of the football pyramid is very strong, but international pressures outside of our control mean that the middle and top of the pyramid are in poorer shape. I'm sure more can be done to make the underage-to-senior / junior-intermediate-senior progression more seemless, but even if rectified the wage level required by domestic football to have a spectacle that can compete with Magners League rugby is impossible.

The only "free market" solution would be if we had a large franchise team competing in a European-wide super league, like the G-14 used to threaten a decade ago. Let's see how well that'd go down, if it wasn't a pipe dream in the first place!

I neither know nor care whether soccer is higher or lower than GAA. I do know that at "grass roots" it is a mile more popular than rugby, but even that isn't a great concern.

My biggest concern is that soccer doesn't get a fair crack of the whip in the press. Comparing IRL v ENG in rugby to IRL v Macedonia in soccer is ridiculous. Ignoring Shane Long, Seamus Coleman & Jon Walters at the expense of creating hysteria over Stephen Ireland, James McCarthy and Robbie "I'm going to walk out on Ireland of not picked" Keane is what gets my goat. It gives ill-informed punters a stick to beat soccer with. That "stick" has been taken up by the many rugby fans I know.

Sure, some footy players are scumbags, but an Irish rugby guy gouging another Irish guy's eye in a European semi-final is pretty scummy too.

Eamon Sweeney's view linked above is much more accurate and balanced.

Ireland needs all 3 big team codes to be thriving in my opinion. I want it to happen and there's room for it to happen.

[Jinxy]

I suppose we could argue the toss endlessly over what defines 'popularity'.
Look at the most popular programmes on TV.
Soap operas and reality song contests.
Rugby has a profile completely disproportionate to it's profile nationwide in my opinion.
The media have taken the only group of professional sportsmen we have in this country and turned them into celebrities.
You can't open a paper without seeing some rugby lad and his model girlfriend out on the town.
In my opinion this aspirational lifestyle is what feeds much of rugbys popularity.
It's a sport for movers and shakers.
The guys that come over from England, France, Italy and Scotland are largely from the same social strata as the rugby fans here.
The captains of industry in this country, be it the media, banking, law or whatever are generally ex-rugby school types.
Look at the price of corporate hospitality tickets in rugby.
People spend crazy money for a bit of grub and some hackneyed anecdotes from some washed-up international.
Wales is different as it can lay claim to being the only country (in Europe anyway) where rugby is the sport of the working classes.
Advertisers love these folks that are attracted to the rugby scene as they are the ones who buy stuff.
Hence sponsorship/advertising money pours in and we're bombarded with 'This is rugby country' ads on TV and billboards.
It inflates the perception that this is truly the sport of the people in Ireland.
Throw in some lad with a vaguely culchie-ish accent (although it's always more gentleman farmer than rural publican) talking about 'pride', 'passion' etc. and people start to go "Yeah, I can really relate to these guys that went to fee-paying schools and have model girlfriends and lucrative endorsement deals. They're just like me. Not like those sullen, petulant millionaires that play for the soccer team'.
But it's one thing for somebody to think that, it's another thing altogether for them to go out and join a rugby club.
Most of them wouldn't know where the nearest one was.
Rugbys relative success is down to its packaging more than its product.
I can only speak for myself but on the ground in reality I just don't see this massive upsurge in rugby popularity.
I think it can only ever get so far in terms of participation and like I said before, adult playing numbers are actually falling.
That's the downside to glamourising the lifestyle of professional rugby players.
When kids leave school and realise they're never going to hit that level, they just jack it in altogether.
And for all the animosity towards the GAA you often see here, I've never heard any GAA man I know coming out with the level of anti-soccer bile I regularly here from my rugby pals.
Don't believe the hype.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/102547.html

[Stuttgart88]

Stuttgart do you know how they defined 'participation'?
I'm involved in research myself so I'm always keen to read the fine print in these things.I think it's "someone aged 16 or over who has played sport (other than walking) for 20 minutes or more in the last 7 days".

Defined in here (http://www.instituteofsport.ie/About_Us/Strategy/ISC_Strategy_2009-2011.pdf) somewhere.

[elroy]

And for all the animosity towards the GAA you often see here, I've never heard any GAA man I know coming out with the level of anti-soccer bile I regularly here from my rugby pals.
Don't believe the hype.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/102547.html

Jinxy I think you are been a bit sensitive if you think there is much animosity here towards the gaa, the references to it on this site and relatively few and far between. However you go to sites like anfearrua or premierview and I guarantee on an almost daily basis there is soccer threads and each threads will have a certain numbers of posts from people with a strong anti/dislike of soccer.

Figures have been produced here on numerous occasions, the Irish soccer team has pulled in the highest viewership figures on annual basis for a long time with a few exceptions. I think out of the last ten years, it has been no 1 sporting event 7 times. And even so in the grand slam winning year for rugby.

On a general level I think interest in soccer in Ireland is more widespread and less cyclical. Unfortunately the majority of this interest is focused on football elsewhere as opposed to Irish based. GAA hits its peak in the summer, no doubt and usually is the no 1 sport during these months. But there are areas of the country where hurling in particular barely registers. I recall been in Sligo/Leitrim area the day of an All Ireland hurling final not that long ago and to find a pub with the match on was quite difficult.

On a participation level, I think more people play soccer generally. But in actual registered numbers, well then I would fancy the gaa wins out. Football leagues are very strong in rural areas but far less organised and developed in rural areas. This is where the gaa are super strong, in the rural areas, strong underage structures, strong clubs in the commmunity etc. On a general level, football does not have this (there are exceptions obviously).

Rugby is strange one. Participation levels, as in registered players are low compared to the other main sports. However it does attract quite a following these days. The IRFU are the leading light in advertising and marketing and developing the game in recent years. However, the nature of their game assists them in comparison to football.....significantly less global competition and a much lower cost/wage base are two major differences.

All in all there is certainly room for all sports in this country, as most of us have a strong interest/participation in one sport but will follow/attend the others as well.

[paul_oshea]

Jinxy, I think GS has a point to some extent: I'd love to see a poll: who is more popular in Ireland, Man United or Leinster? Man United and Leinster / Munster combined?

Whatever about the FAI and LOI's self-inflicted wounds it is simply not possible to have the standard of football played regularly in Ireland that would attracts tens of thousands of spectators regularly. The wage bills required would be unaffordable.

As I mentioned before, the bottom of the football pyramid is very strong, but international pressures outside of our control mean that the middle and top of the pyramid are in poorer shape. I'm sure more can be done to make the underage-to-senior / junior-intermediate-senior progression more seemless, but even if rectified the wage level required by domestic football to have a spectacle that can compete with Magners League rugby is impossible.

The only "free market" solution would be if we had a large franchise team competing in a European-wide super league, like the G-14 used to threaten a decade ago. Let's see how well that'd go down, if it wasn't a pipe dream in the first place!

I neither know nor care whether soccer is higher or lower than GAA. I do know that at "grass roots" it is a mile more popular than rugby, but even that isn't a great concern.

My biggest concern is that soccer doesn't get a fair crack of the whip in the press. Comparing IRL v ENG in rugby to IRL v Macedonia in soccer is ridiculous. Ignoring Shane Long, Seamus Coleman & Jon Walters at the expense of creating hysteria over Stephen Ireland, James McCarthy and Robbie "I'm going to walk out on Ireland of not picked" Keane is what gets my goat. It gives ill-informed punters a stick to beat soccer with. That "stick" has been taken up by the many rugby fans I know.

Sure, some footy players are scumbags, but an Irish rugby guy gouging another Irish guy's eye in a European semi-final is pretty scummy too.

Eamon Sweeney's view linked above is much more accurate and balanced.

Ireland needs all 3 big team codes to be thriving in my opinion. I want it to happen and there's room for it to happen.

great post.

[Jinxy]

I absolutely agree that there is room for all the big sports, I just think that the real popularity of rugby is wildly overstated.

[paul_oshea]

I suppose we could argue the toss endlessly over what defines 'popularity'.
Look at the most popular programmes on TV.
Soap operas and reality song contests.
Rugby has a profile completely disproportionate to it's profile nationwide in my opinion.
The media have taken the only group of professional sportsmen we have in this country and turned them into celebrities.
You can't open a paper without seeing some rugby lad and his model girlfriend out on the town.
In my opinion this aspirational lifestyle is what feeds much of rugbys popularity.
It's a sport for movers and shakers.
The guys that come over from England, France, Italy and Scotland are largely from the same social strata as the rugby fans here.
The captains of industry in this country, be it the media, banking, law or whatever are generally ex-rugby school types.
Look at the price of corporate hospitality tickets in rugby.
People spend crazy money for a bit of grub and some hackneyed anecdotes from some washed-up international.
Wales is different as it can lay claim to being the only country (in Europe anyway) where rugby is the sport of the working classes.
Advertisers love these folks that are attracted to the rugby scene as they are the ones who buy stuff.
Hence sponsorship/advertising money pours in and we're bombarded with 'This is rugby country' ads on TV and billboards.
It inflates the perception that this is truly the sport of the people in Ireland.
Throw in some lad with a vaguely culchie-ish accent (although it's always more gentleman farmer than rural publican) talking about 'pride', 'passion' etc. and people start to go "Yeah, I can really relate to these guys that went to fee-paying schools and have model girlfriends and lucrative endorsement deals. They're just like me. Not like those sullen, petulant millionaires that play for the soccer team'.
But it's one thing for somebody to think that, it's another thing altogether for them to go out and join a rugby club.
Most of them wouldn't know where the nearest one was.
Rugbys relative success is down to its packaging more than its product.
I can only speak for myself but on the ground in reality I just don't see this massive upsurge in rugby popularity.
I think it can only ever get so far in terms of participation and like I said before, adult playing numbers are actually falling.
That's the downside to glamourising the lifestyle of professional rugby players.
When kids leave school and realise they're never going to hit that level, they just jack it in altogether.
And for all the animosity towards the GAA you often see here, I've never heard any GAA man I know coming out with the level of anti-soccer bile I regularly here from my rugby pals.
Don't believe the hype.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/102547.html

Thats got a date of septeber 15th 2009, yet he mentions the world cup play off in a few weeks? It was 2 months away. What was he on about? that aside even :)

[Jinxy]

This is what I'm saying.
The rugby media and an awful lot of rugby people totally look down their nose at soccer yet they're never pulled up on it.

[peadar1987]

This is what I'm saying.
The rugby media and an awful lot of rugby people totally look down their nose at soccer yet they're never pulled up on it.

I brought a rugby-watching friend to the FAI Cup final last year at Lansdowne. She wasn't really interested in the game, just wanted to see the stadium cheaply. She asked me if the music they were playing before kick-off was to calm down the "animals" in the crowd, so they didn't cause trouble. Fair enough, she realised it was a stupid question immediately after saying it, but jeebus!

[jbyrne]

Quite clearly described in his posts.

not really. just the usual il-informed party line about the Irish rugby fans means, background etc

[paul_oshea]

I brought a rugby-watching friend to the FAI Cup final last year at Lansdowne. She wasn't really interested in the game, just wanted to see the stadium cheaply. She asked me if the music they were playing before kick-off was to calm down the "animals" in the crowd, so they didn't cause trouble. Fair enough, she realised it was a stupid question immediately after saying it, but jeebus!

I hope you got laid.

[gspain]

You see it's hard to take you seriously when you throw out a comment like that because it's not based on facts, just a personal desire for this to be the case.

It is a fact based on participation numbers and viewing figures. also based on personal experience (albeit living and working in Dublin which would have a much lower interest in GAA than say Kilkenny).

Beleive me I wish they weren't interested in Man Utd and Liverpool and followed Irish football teams but unfortunately they don't.

There is an average of 4,000 people from this country and every Man Utd home game.

Regarding rugby, growing up in Limerick there was never any anti football stuff from the rugby crowd (plenty from certain GAA elements). Thomond Park
was always available if required and many rugby fans came to our big games. In Dublin I do see a difference although it is more of a class thing and pretty much the same way certain Limerick clubs were treated in the past.