World Ranking

[SkStu]

Population doesn't have that significant a bearing on success. India are ranked 143rd with a population of over a billion people. Meanwhile, Uruguay, with a population of under four million, are ranked 16th at present and were ranked as high as second within the last year.

I would respectfully disagree Danny and would subscribe to the theory that Population + GDP + Experience = football success.

(Check out Soccernomics by Simon Kuper for more on this theory).

[DannyInvincible]

Indeed, I should probably have said "population alone". :)

[IsMiseSean]

Yes, that's totally fair but I still feel we'd have struggled against another European side despite having such a good campaign. We had a very good campaign when the last second equaliser in Macedonia cost us outright qualification, but still went out to Turkey.

Turkey were no mugs as they proved in by reaching the QF and then went on to finish 3rd at WC and what if we didn't concede that late penalty....
Looking at some of the other European teams in the playoffs, I would have fancied us against Austria, Slovenia, Romania and even an ageing Belgium side. I do agree though Iran was the best outcome for us.

[geysir]

Turkey were no mugs as they proved in by reaching the QF and then went on to finish 3rd at WC and what if we didn't concede that late penalty....
Looking at some of the other European teams in the playoffs, I would have fancied us against Austria, Slovenia, Romania and even an ageing Belgium side. I do agree though Iran was the best outcome for us.
I see that we got Iran because we were the best placed runner up, so we had earned the right to play the fall guys of the play-offs.

[DannyInvincible]

Ireland have risen one place to 39th in the latest rankings published today: http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/ireland/2013/04/11/3895023/ireland-move-up-one-place-in-fifa-ranking

[geysir]

You mean Venezuela have dropped down one place :)
We have stayed in the same place in the UEFA zone rankings.

[peadar1987]

You mean Venezuela have dropped down one place :)
We have stayed in the same place in the UEFA zone rankings.

And the cynic of the week award goes to... :)

[geysir]

:)
There's more to be revealed.
Stan's Ireland rose to 20th position, some 2 places higher amongst the UEFA teams, in April 2007.
Those were the days when we put together a string of home wins against teams who weren't cannon fodder.

[Closed Account 2]

It was some string wasnt it 5-0 home to San Marino (who are no mugs, we only beat them 2-1 away) and 1-0s against Wales and Slovakia. But we couldnt do it against the Czechs or Cyprus (we nearly avenged the 5-2 defeat in Nicosia with a 1-1 at home).

[geysir]

Nowadays we can only dream of beating teams like Wales and a higher seeded team (Slovakia) at home and be bitterly disappointed at only getting a draw against the top seeds.:)
Cyprus was dead rubber game.
That group was a dead rubber in progress for us, after the Czechs trounced Slovakia in the first away game.

[Closed Account 2]

Wow that's ambition, the group was over for us after we'd only played one game, and on the basis of a match that didn't invlove us. If you're going down that route you could say the group was over when we appointed someone as inept as Stan as manager.

[geysir]

I'm not egging up Stan, far from it. But getting Germany as 2nd seeds was already a tough ask and if you analyse that group, that first result for the Czechs meant we would have to do what had rarely been done before, win away against a higher seed and we haven't managed that since.
The Czechs winning away at the most likely place where they might drop points was majorly significant in getting their campaign off the ground, on the front foot.
If Sweden go and pick up 3 points in Austria, at a 'wild' guess based on the balance of the probabilities, we would have to do the same, just to stay in the hunt.
Based on our performances so far, it would be an exception if we managed that and supposedly Austria are a mediocre team, there to be taken.

[BonnieShels]

Suppose I should post this in here for some consistency.

http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1678679&viewfull=1#post1678679

[geysir]

Suppose I should post this in here for some consistency.

http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligibility-Rules-Okay?p=1678679&viewfull=1#post1678679

That's worse than trying to navigate around Cavan territory, by following the signposts, pre 1990's.

[swinfordfc]

What the story now with this - will these few games make any differences?

Will that draw with England get us into the top 40?

[swinfordfc]

Think we are down to 41st in the rankings out on Thursday ......

[Serb]

Yeah, despite drawing with England and beating Georgia, we end up with 3 less world ranking points due (I think) to points from 2010 expiring.

[geysir]

The ranking points gained against Paraguay and Algeria disappear.
All our FIFA ranking points earned (4 years worth) are 100% genuine Trap ranking points..

[SkStu]

The ranking points gained against Paraguay and Algeria disappear.
All our FIFA ranking points earned (4 years worth) are 100% genuine Trap ranking points..

so do we know where are we under Trap compared to where we were after the previous 4 years before he came? Much improvement?

[BonnieShels]

We were 42nd in June 2008; the Province were 32.

[DannyInvincible]

We're down three places to 44th in the latest rankings update: http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/ireland/2013/07/04/4093332/ireland-fall-three-places-fifa-world-ranking


Ireland's World Cup qualification rivals Austria have also risen by 22 places to 54 in the table, but Sweden have fallen four places to 31.

[DannyInvincible]

Just having a closer look and I see Wales are just two spots behind us in 46th. That surprised me. I'd casually assumed they were destined to remain ranked around the 80-mark forever.

[BonnieShels]

Ever get the feeling that the rankings are stacked against us.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A certain senile Italian doesn't help...
Too many draws!

Anyway, besides the unfortunate (major) effect of qualifying draws, don't care where we're ranked. It's how we perform. We need to win a few games.

Long-term our target should be to get back into Pot 2 for the next World Cup or two (albeit they are likely to be two of the ones more worth missing for various reasons if they remain in their present venues)...

[DannyInvincible]

Heavyweights Panama and the Cape Verde Islands have frog-leaped us as we remain in 44th position in the rankings as of today's update: http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

[peadar1987]

Heavyweights Panama and the Cape Verde Islands have frog-leaped us as we remain in 44th position in the rankings as of today's update: http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

Aye, but it helps your ranking when your games are against Martinique, Sierra Leone and Equatorial Guinea, instead of Spain, England and Sweden. (Although Panama deserve credit for some great results such as beating Mexico at the Azteca, Cape Verde's recent opposition have been absolute pish!)

[Grafter]

Was taken aback today when I heard Wales are now 2 behind us in 46th place..... regardless of Bale they have something like 6 points in qualifying......

You could see a manager like Coleman using the world ranking as a bargaining chip when looking for a contract..... frankly I think Wales have under performed under Coleman for the most part...

[Darklordsbane]

Anyone know what ranking we had before pass it back to the keeper coach took over

[DannyInvincible]

Anyone know what ranking we had before pass it back to the keeper coach took over

See our ranking evolution on the top-right there: http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=irl/ranking/gender=m/index.html

I think we were 41st when Trap took over but we've both risen and fallen significantly since.

[BonnieShels]

I honestly think that we could win the world cup and Someone like Honduras would go on a good run and end up in the top-10.

[peadar1987]

Anyone know what ranking we had before pass it back to the keeper coach took over

41st. Incidentally, the current ranking of 44th is the worst we've been ranked under Trap. Our average ranking under him is 34th, and we've been as high as 18th.

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtools/compareteams.html#g=m&t1=IRL&t2=NIR&t3=SCO&t4=WAL&dRange=5&fm=5&fy=2008&tm=8&ty=2013



By way of comparison, Stan began his reign ranked 26th, finished ranked 32nd, and had an average ranking of 38th, with the highest position being the 26th he inherited from Kerr, and the lowest 51st.

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtools/compareteams.html#g=m&t1=IRL&t2=NIR&t3=SCO&t4=WAL&dRange=5&fm=1&fy=2006&tm=10&ty=2007



Kerr took over with Ireland ranked 14th, finished with us ranked 21st, our lowest ranking under him, and had us as high as 12th with an average ranking of 14th.

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtools/compareteams.html#g=m&t1=IRL&t2=NIR&t3=SCO&t4=WAL&dRange=5&fm=1&fy=2003&tm=10&ty=2005




Mick Mac took over with us ranked 37th, had us as high as 13th and as low as 57th, with an average of 35th, and left us ranked 14th:

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtools/compareteams.html#g=m&t1=IRL&t2=NIR&t3=SCO&t4=WAL&dRange=5&fm=3&fy=1996&tm=11&ty=2002



Which all proves pretty much nothing. World ranking is very subjective, and depends an awful lot on whether Liberia have played a string of friendlies against Burkina Faso and Lesotho, or Iran have put 19 goals past the Maldives. Overall competitive record is a far better measure of the success of a manager, especially when you look at it taking into account the quality of opposition played (due to qualifying for major finals etc.)

Our ranking would probably be better now if we hadn't qualified for the Euros, and played three friendlies against Liechtenstein, Andorra and San Marino. Would people really have preferred that?

[Cymro]

Was taken aback today when I heard Wales are now 2 behind us in 46th place..... regardless of Bale they have something like 6 points in qualifying......

You could see a manager like Coleman using the world ranking as a bargaining chip when looking for a contract..... frankly I think Wales have under performed under Coleman for the most part...

We've done OK under Coleman. We have 6 points but are in with a decent chance of finishing 3rd in our group which would be progress. Also bear in mind it's a really tough group with no whipping boys so 6 points from as many games is not great but OK. The two wins against Scotland were good results and we've also beaten Austria in a friendly. We were also very unlucky not to get something at home to Croatia having led for most of the game. On the other hand Coleman has it all to prove, he's lost more than he's won and we've had some embarrassing performances (Bosnia 0-2 friendly home & Serbia 1-5 defeat away). We have Macedonia home and away and Serbia at home yet to play in this group, we would be looking at at least 5 points from those games.

The ranking is irrelevant. Most of the points have come from wins under Gary Speed, like the 4-1 win at home to Norway who were ranked in the top 10 at the time. Frankly the rankings are ridiculous now, that Cape Verde Islands can be near the top 30 is ludicrous when they haven't qualified for a World Cup ever. If I werwe FIFA I'd review the weighting system for certain confederations and consider going back to an 8-year or 6-year system.

[Serb]

Which all proves pretty much nothing. World ranking is very subjective, and depends an awful lot on whether Liberia have played a string of friendlies against Burkina Faso and Lesotho, or Iran have put 19 goals past the Maldives.

I totally agree with the message behind your post — I just wanted to mention one thing that's often misunderstood, and that's the number of goals scored in a game. The only thing that matters is the result when it comes to ranking points. A 10-0 win vs Spain counts for the same as a 1-0 win.

It's laughable that a team like The Cape Verde islands is ranked ahead of us. They got one decent result against South Africa in a competitive game and they jump 13 places. But that's just the way the system works. African and South American teams tend to peak around now as they play all their qualifying games in quick succession, so any result is worth a lot more than a friendly result (e.g. Cape Verde have played 7 competitive internationals in the past 6 months).

[DannyInvincible]

As of today's update, we've fallen to 59th position in the FIFA rankings; our lowest position ever.

[Irwin3]

If we beat Germany and Kazakhstan next month we will rise to around 47th!

A more realistic prediction follows. Viewer discretion is advised.
Forecast is if we beat Kazakhstan and lose to Germany we will drop to around 66th.

Well that worked nicely. Grin and bear it.

[DannyInvincible]

Fuggin' 'ell. Can you delete that post, Irwin? I can't bear reading it.

[NeverFeltBetter]

At least we only field eligible players.

[Grafter]

Work this one out, Wales are 52nd 7 places higher than us... what a load of baloney!

[ArdeeBhoy]

We know.

WR are a an even bigger waste of space than the Trap book of Flexible Tactics...

[DeLorean]

No point in getting too worked up about rankings and seedings I don't think at this point. We finished ahead of the second seeds in the previous two campaigns... I reckon there's a good chance that would have still happened if we were seeded 4th instead of 3rd. It's probably a more important factor to get some way lucky with the draw. Just looking at this qualifying campaign for example...

Group A
1. Croatia
2. Serbia
3. Belgium
4. Scotland
5. Macedonia
6. Wales

Group E
1. Norway
2. Slovenia
3. Switzerland
4. Albania
5. Cyprus
6. Iceland

I would prefer to have been the 6th seeds and got Group E than 4th (maybe even 3rd) seeds and have got Group A.

I know the higher you're ranked/seeded the better chance you're giving yourself, but it's not the be-all and end-all.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aren't Switzerland running away with their group & Iceland are 2nd?

[DeLorean]

Group E
Team
MP
W
D
L
GF
GA
Pts


(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43971/index.html)Switzerland (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43971/index.html)
8
5
3
0
14
5
18


(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43951/index.html)Iceland (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43951/index.html)
8
4
1
3
14
14
13


(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43968/index.html)Slovenia (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43968/index.html)
8
4
0
4
11
10
12


(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43961/index.html)Norway (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43961/index.html)
8
3
2
3
9
9
11


(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43932/index.html)Albania (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43932/index.html)
8
3
1
4
8
9
10


(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43939/index.html)Cyprus (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43939/index.html)
8
1
1
6
4
13
4





Fixtures
Date
Venue




Matches






11/10/13
TBA
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43968/index.html)

Slovenia (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43968/index.html)
-
Norway (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43961/index.html)
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43961/index.html)



11/10/13
TBA
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43932/index.html)

Albania (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43932/index.html)
-
Switzerland (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43971/index.html)
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43971/index.html)



11/10/13
TBA
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43951/index.html)

Iceland (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43951/index.html)
-
Cyprus (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43939/index.html)
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43939/index.html)



15/10/13
TBA
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43961/index.html)

Norway (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43961/index.html)
-
Iceland (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43951/index.html)
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43951/index.html)



15/10/13
TBA
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43971/index.html)

Switzerland (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43971/index.html)
-
Slovenia (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43968/index.html)
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43968/index.html)



15/10/13
TBA
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43939/index.html)

Cyprus (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43939/index.html)
-
Albania (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43932/index.html)
(http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43932/index.html)

[sadloserkid]

If it makes people feel any better in my current Football Manager game it's January 2017 and Ireland (under Sean O'Driscoll) are ranked 88th. :)

[tetsujin1979]

If it makes people feel any better in my current Football Manager game it's January 2017 and Ireland (under Sean O'Driscoll) are ranked 88th. :)SOD out! (SOD off??) SLK in!

[DeLorean]

Oh Sweet Lord... "SOD off"... he can never manage us for that reason alone.

[geysir]

Fifa rankings would only have been relevant (in the immediate future) if we had got to the playoff.
Seeing as that's not on the menu. it's the Uefa rankings which matter now for the Euro 2016 qual draw.
If Fifa rankings were used for that, we would surely be in pot 4.
But we're probably in Uefa's pot 3 these days.
Fortunately for us, a win against the Faroes carries the same full quota of coefficient points as a win against Germany, in the Uefa rankings.

edit: I see there's already a thread on Euro 2016 ;) I suppose that means the grieving process is over.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And you think we have problems...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24549624

[swinfordfc]

God we need to get this up a good bit - 60th is our worst ranking ever!

[DannyInvincible]

It's predicted we'll fall ever so slightly further in the next update: http://www.football-rankings.info/2013/10/fifa-ranking-november-2013-probable_25.html

[thischarmingman]

While it doesn't relate directly to Ireland, this article does a nice job of summarising the ranking situation:


So it's official, England will not be seeded in the World Cup draw. Fifa's latest world rankings, in which the world's top seven will join Brazil as seeds, puts them only 10th. But the frustration is that they might have made it, had they only tried. The difference between success and failure in this race lies not only in results on the pitch, though they obviously help, but in a bit of thought being put in off it. Sure, had England held on to their half-time lead in Montenegro in March, or beaten Ukraine last month, a place in pot one would have been theirs, but the easiest way for the Football Association to have made sure their team got seeded wasn't by getting them to actually play well – which is an awfully complicated business – but by occasionally making sure they didn't play at all.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/17/england-seeded-switzerland-world-cup-draw-friendlies