World Ranking

[BonnieShels]

Good job the FAI had the foresight to instruct UEFA to sort the fixtures centrally.

That's why John earns the big bucks that he does.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Does anyone here feel the FAI are aware of these permutations - or would they even care?

Think they would probably lean towards the latter...

[davidatrb]

So, should O'Neill and the FAI not have sought out easier friendlies? It's all well and good picking hard opposition to assess and improve your team but really we should have chosen teams we can beat, or even not play some games at all?

If we bring on an extra few subs (I think that 6 is the magic number) then the friendly becomes unofficial and it won't count towards ranking. It seems a bit devious but our friend Eduard often recommends this. He seems to run the football-ranking.info website and is now apparently being paid by some national team to consult on improving their FIFA ranking.

For Ireland I'm not too pushed. There is nobody that is likely to be in Pot 3, 4 or 5 that scares me - so I don't think O'Neil will be overly concerned which Pot we are in. It would be nice to climb into Pot 2 though but its not going to happen. I think that there will be a couple of teams that will be in Pot 2 that will be very important to avoid (Netherlands, Portugal maybe).

[davidatrb]

Also is this the first time we have been ranked below England, Wales, the IFA team and Scotland at the same time?

N. Ireland seem to have been bottom ranked British Isles team since Oct 2011 Release. Before that it was Wales. And switched between Wales and N. Ireland quite a bit. Ireland have never been worst ranked. We were top ranked, even ahead of England more often than not between 1993 and 1995 but FIFA used a different system back then. Since 1995 England have always been ranked top from our corner of the globe.

From what I can see.

[Gather round]

N. Ireland seem to have been bottom ranked British Isles team since Oct 2011 Release. Before that it was Wales. And switched between Wales and N. Ireland quite a bit

We outpointed Wales in actual qualifying for 2006, 2008 and 2010.

Here are some recent actual and future possible ranking points (to be) gained.

Chile bt Spain- 2400 (100%)

NI bt Greece- 58% (maximum for qualifier = 62%)

NI bt Hungary- 51%

IE bt Georgia- 32%

IE dr Germany- 21%

NI bt Faroes- 15%

NI dr Cyprus- 3% (minimum for drawn friendly = 2%)

IE bt Gibraltar 0% (Gib aren't a FIFA member thus no ranking)


...


IE to bt Scotland 50%

NI to dr Romania 18%

[Kingdom]

Gather round, what is the 50% of actually, were ROI to beat Scotland. It's hardly a 50% increase of our current points is it?

[osarusan]

50% of 2400 points?

[Kingdom]

I took a quick glance at the UEFA Nations Cup. Now obviously it isn't remotely near, but if it was being run now, we could be in a group Norway, Lithuania and Moldova, to make the last 4 for a spot in Euro 2020, provided we hadn't qualified conventionally. Not bad.

[Gather round]

Gather round, what is the 50% of actually, were ROI to beat Scotland. It's hardly a 50% increase of our current points is it?

It's 50% of the best possible result for a single game (ie the 2,400* Chile or Netherlands got for beating then World Ranked #1 Spain during the World Cup). Qualifiers are weighted at 62.5% of WC finals games, friendlies at 25% and Euro finals games at 75%. Games more than a year ago depreciate by 50%, two years 70% and three years 80%. Any older than that isn't counted in the rolling average.

* 3 (points for a win) x 4 (in the World Cup Finals) x 200 (against the highest ranked team) = 2,400

By beating the Scots, you'd get

3 x 2.5 x 163 x 0.99 (as Europe overall is now ranked slightly worse than South America) = 1,210 (ie about 50% of 2,400)

[bennocelt]

N. Ireland seem to have been bottom ranked British Isles team since Oct 2011 Release. Before that it was Wales. And switched between Wales and N. Ireland quite a bit. Ireland have never been worst ranked. We were top ranked, even ahead of England more often than not between 1993 and 1995 but FIFA used a different system back then. Since 1995 England have always been ranked top from our corner of the globe.

From what I can see.

You mean Ireland and Britain;)

[Kingdom]

Many thanks Gather Round. I know it's far from simple, but it would be far to say that if we were to beat Scotland away and Poland at home and remain unbeaten in the two friendlies then Ireland would take a huge leap.

[BonnieShels]

N. Ireland seem to have been bottom ranked British Isles team since Oct 2011 Release. Before that it was Wales. And switched between Wales and N. Ireland quite a bit. Ireland have never been worst ranked. We were top ranked, even ahead of England more often than not between 1993 and 1995 but FIFA used a different system back then. Since 1995 England have always been ranked top from our corner of the globe.

From what I can see.

So this is the first time we are ranked lowest ever!

Eugh. O'Neill out.

[geysir]

Many thanks Gather Round. I know it's far from simple, but it would be far to say that if we were to beat Scotland away and Poland at home and remain unbeaten in the two friendlies then Ireland would take a huge leap.
And we only have to beat them 1 nil, with a lucky goal or an unrepeatable bit of skill from an unlikely suspect, in order to garner maximum available ranking points and jump up to the lower regions of the 2nd pot level.

[osarusan]

* 3 (points for a win) x 4 (in the World Cup Finals) x 200 (against the highest ranked team) = 2,400

By beating the Scots, you'd get

3 x 2.5 x 163 x 0.99 (as Europe overall is now ranked slightly worse than South America) = 1,210 (ie about 50% of 2,400)

How is the 163 calculated? Is it a countdown from 200, which is for a win against the #1 ranked team in the world?

Is it 163 points for any team that beats them?

Or does it depend on the seedings - 163 if Ireland beat them, but fewer points if Germany beat them, because Germany are the top seeds?

[paul_oshea]

And we only have to beat them 1 nil, with a lucky goal or an unrepeatable bit of skill from an unlikely suspect, in order to garner maximum available ranking points and jump up to the lower regions of the 2nd pot level.

We will need a bit of luck for that to happen ; )

[Gather round]

How is the 163 calculated? Is it a countdown from 200, which is for a win against the #1 ranked team in the world?

Is it 163 points for any team that beats them?

Or does it depend on the seedings - 163 if Ireland beat them, but fewer points if Germany beat them, because Germany are the top seeds?

Yes, it's a countdown from 200 (World Ranking #1) to 50 (WR #150 or below). Anyone playing Scotland next month gets a multiplier of 163, anyone playing you about 140 (assuming your ranking is #60). Seedings are irrelevant to the calculations.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Isn't that relatively obvious? I mean if GR can grasp it...
Plus he normally has a fixation elsewhere on slating the UEFA/FIFA rankings as being too obscure. He has a point but they're hardly likely to take notice...

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/845205-say-what-you-like-about-the-fifa-rankings#975110

[BonnieShels]

It's official. We're the worst team in the islands.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Isle Of Man? Scilly Isles?

[Gather round]

Isn't that relatively obvious? I mean if GR can grasp it...
Plus he normally has a fixation elsewhere on slating the UEFA/FIFA rankings as being too obscure. He has a point but they're hardly likely to take notice...

A fixation shared to an even greater extent by many others on this thread/ forum. Including yourself, unsurprisingly...

Meanwhile, as excitement grows before the big game at Parkhead. Last week, an old friend of mine from Naas was at her son's wedding to a local girl in Aberdeen. Most of the Irish male friends and relatives worse kilts.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Really? Other than WC draws, this doesn't really mean anything anymore. Eng.been 'top ten' for decades and they're still extremely mediocre, in the main.

And no idea about the kilts thing, beyond it being on a par with a certain N.American poster.

[DannyInvincible]

Meanwhile, as excitement grows before the big game at Parkhead. Last week, an old friend of mine from Naas was at her son's wedding to a local girl in Aberdeen. Most of the Irish male friends and relatives worse kilts.

There are Irish kilts and tartans too. Being symbols of Gaelic-Celtic identity, they were adopted by nationalists in the late 19th and early 20th century as part of the wider Gaelic cultural revival in Ireland.

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilt#Kilts_in_Ireland), here's a photo of an Irish Defence Forces pipe-band wearing saffron kilts:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Irish_Army_Pipe_Band.jpg

[strangeirish]

It's official. We're the worst team in the islands.
To be fair, Northern Ireland has always been above us...

[DannyInvincible]

To be fair, Northern Ireland has always been above us...

Depends on your perspective...

http://moyakarta.ucoz.ru/rastr/anti-world-map.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

The inhabitants of Malin Head might also beg to differ. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Or most of Donegal too?


To be fair, Northern Ireland has always been above us...

[davidatrb]

Did some work on this today. We don't really need to be in Pot 2, its possible that N. Ireland, Scotland, Greece, Denmark will be all in Pot 2 and I don't think we should be overall scared of those. But ya on the other hand France, England, Netherlands, Spain might be in Pot 2 - so that would be a top team from among these as well as the top group seeds (maybe Germany?) to overcome - which would be a problem.

If we did want to make Pot 2:
We hope Russia raise in the ranking, as automatic qualifiers if they are in top two pot positions then it will open up another spot.
Don't arrange any more friendlies. (Maybe cancel the one's we have!)
Win every game between now and July (all at home which is nice - USA, Poland, England and Scotland).
Hope that the top 10 teams start to pummel the rest of the nations (except us) and hope the overall points target lowers. Upsets like (Poland beating Germany, everyone beating Netherlands etc) are hurting us by giving our competitors for a berth in Pot 2 high ranking points.

http://fog2014.blogspot.ie/2014/11/looking-forward-to-wc-2018.html

Also good for us would be for Scotland, England and Poland to go up in the rankings (and they all probably are moving up) so that when we beat them we get more points!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Pretty sure scotch (whiskey), bagpipes & kilts were all introduced to the Scottish by the Irish and ended up becoming symbols of "their" culture. Open to correction on that one though.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's no evidence kilts have Irish origin, bagpipes were first recorded in Scotland, but I think whiskey is probably Irish.

[Crosby87]

Axl Rose is the only man that ever looked sexy in a kilt, claim some on here.

[Cymro]

Depends on your perspective...

http://moyakarta.ucoz.ru/rastr/anti-world-map.jpg

Italy scoring a brilliant overhead kick there.

[DannyInvincible]

Where will the last two results leave us? The US are ranked pretty highly (23rd), although friendly victories aren't as lucrative as competitive games.

[Closed Account]

Where will the last two results leave us? The US are ranked pretty highly (23rd), although friendly victories aren't as lucrative as competitive games.

Leaves us 519 points:
http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-tools/prognosis.html

Probably drop 3 places to 64th based on this but will know tomorrow.
http://www.football-rankings.info/2014/10/fifa-ranking-november-2014-probable_31.html

[Charlie Darwin]

Is it sad that the first thing I thought of when the win was secured was how it would affect our ranking?

[Stuttgart88]

No, I thought the same.

[DannyInvincible]

I thought the same. I came straight for this thread. :(

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except it's how international football works now. People seem to blindly accept FIFA/UEFA when they are both clearly flawed organisations...

[Stuttgart88]

Uefa has nothing to do with the rankings. Without uefa the clubs would **** all over international football.

Despite fifa corruption they do a reasonably good job actually running the game. That's the strange message that gets lost.

[geysir]

No, I thought the same.
Still sad.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Uefa has nothing to do with the rankings. Without uefa the clubs would **** all over international football.

Despite fifa corruption they do a reasonably good job actually running the game. That's the strange message that gets lost.
Sorry, meant they make use of those rankings, but you can almost understand the clubs, given UEFA's double standards and general stupidity.

[DannyInvincible]

Except it's how international football works now. People seem to blindly accept FIFA/UEFA when they are both clearly flawed organisations...

Flawed certainly, but what's the alternative if one wants to see organised and competitive professional football?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Start a new body. Something the Eng.FA were suggesting the other day by boycotting FIFA. Probably the only sensible thing they've ever said.

[Charlie Darwin]

The English FA said no such thing.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sorry, only their former chairman...
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/former-fa-chairman-david-bernstein-calls-for-england-to-walk-the-talk-and-boycott-2018-world-cup-unless-fifa-reform-and-sepp-blatter-goes-9864536.html

[Charlie Darwin]

You don't consider that to be an important distinction?

[BonnieShels]

Is it sad that the first thing I thought of when the win was secured was how it would affect our ranking?


No, I thought the same.


I thought the same. I came straight for this thread. :(

Same.

We'll crack 50 yet.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You don't consider that to be an important distinction?
Not especially.

[Charlie Darwin]

Not especially.
Fair enough. I think most of us who live in the real world know it's the easiest thing in the world for somebody with no power and no skin in the game to propose something completely implausible than even he knows can't and won't happen.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except Bernstein is no mug, still active in the game and the Eng.FA undoubtedly sanctioned this. A bit of politics after their latest WC bid fiasco, but most things that currently undermine FIFA/UEFA are undoubtedly a good thing.
For once, as I said, they deserve credit.

And as FA's go, they are more influential than most.