Stephen Hunt

[ForzaForth]

Stephen Hunt's pub in Rosslare is opening this weekend according to his Twitter account.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www1.skysports.com/transfer/news/11707/9366439/transfer-news-stephen-hunt-agrees-new-one-year-deal-with-ipswich

Contract extensions for Stephen Hunt and Mick McCarthy at Ipswich.

[Stuttgart88]

In what thread was the Stephen Hunt v Joe Brolly spat discussed?

Anyway, I think Hunt had no case to answer and Brolly made a fool of himself, but in any event Hunt wins the row hands down in this article. Only criticism is that maybe he got too riled by Brolly.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/stephen-hunt-joe-brolly-might-not-like-it-but-professional-footballers-deserve-respect-30805040.html

The excellent GAA and Sligo Rovers loving Eamonn Sweeney has a good response too

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-describing-gaa-players-as-elite-or-world-class-is-just-waffle-30805047.html

[tetsujin1979]

Brolly's been digging a hole for himself ever since his remarks about Kerry not having any players coming through earlier this year. Hunt made himself a target with his original article about GAA players and the commitment shown by footballers to their careers.
Whatever respect I had for Brolly has gone in the last few weeks, after his comments on NewsTalk about Roy Keane, and now engaging with Hunt in a battle of words - and losing. Hunt's acquitted himself well, gave his arguments, explained them, and stood by them. Brolly's swore a lot and shouted remarks from the parapets. The comment about Brian Cody mopping the changing rooms after training was ludicrous
It just shows you the difference. Do you think Louis van Gaal is going to mop the Old Trafford changing room floors? You gotta be kidding me – unless he’s being paid a huge amount by a mop-making company.
Of course Van Gaal isn't going to mop the floor, he's too busy managing the club! If I walked into a changing room and saw the manager mopping the floor, I'd think the place was out of money!

[Olé Olé]

I agree with Tets. Not exactly what one expects when a softly-spoken solicitor from Derry collides with an often incomprehensible Waterford footballer.

[geysir]

I didn't read what Brolly wrote and Hunt's article was in reaction to Brolly, fair enough, but what Sweeney neglects to explain is the context for GAA players whining about Hunt's comments. From what i read the GAA players were mainly doing a version of the Four Yorkshiremen", in reaction to Hunt,saying 'after training i just rest' .. 'rest all the time'. 'have a total rest'. 'I rest between rests and then follow up with another rest'.
The reaction was mainly around the 'rest' bit, 'rest would be luxury, I would love to have a rest now and again but after training I have to go out and work and after work I have to go and train'.

[DeLorean]

Hunt's first article was a bit all over the place though and left himself (and his fellow soccer players) open to criticism/jokes. It was suicide really because he had the winning of this little battle hands down, if he just put as much care into the first article as he did the more recent one. He got there in the end I suppose.

This was his first article for anybody who missed it. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/stephen-hunt-gaa-players-would-find-life-tough-in-premier-league-30785091.html)

And Brolly's reply. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-stephen-hunt-wouldnt-last-five-minutes-in-an-ulster-club-final-30798756.html)

[paul_oshea]

The general consensus was that Hunt is a flute and is hardly in a position to be making the comment especially when he was out of contract and is "only" with Ipswich.

Eamonn Sweeneys piece was very good I thought and fair play to him, really enjoy his articles, ye'd know he is from the west. He has a lot of cop on.

I listened to hunts radio interview and i understood clearly what he was getting at, he wasnt as coherent or succint in the original article but it was pretty clear what he was trying to say. Anyone with an agenda though would have ignored that, but for the general public they all thought it was an out of touch Footballer who doesnt know what he is talking about.

[DeLorean]

In fairness, I love Gaelic Games but some of the pretentious notions amongst it's followers is squirmingly cringing. Same goes for those who don't like it referring to Gaelic Football as bogball, etc. I really don't understand the logic behind sport-wars.

[paul_oshea]

Well a lot of people I spoke did mention that the Dublin footballers, Mayo and to a lesser extent Donegal would be well up there in terms of the training they do. But that's the whole point, he wasn't on about the training and he never said that, he got sidetracked with that a bit on the radio interview as well.

I definitely feel there is more of the anti brigade from GAA circles, its the majority inner city dubs or working class areas and a few in cork that refer to GAA as bogball, but there are a far less number.

There is definitely a trait of inverted snobbery in GAA, but as I have pointed out to many in the past, when the time comes even the most die hard(almost always CD or Tets no doubt will pull out a few exceptions to the rule - or maybe not cos they are coming with a soccer agenda) will follow the money a la hunty, doyle, long and coleman. 2 of the that group would definitely have been involved at some stage at inter county level.

[DeLorean]

There is definitely a trait of inverted snobbery in GAA

Yeah and we can't forget that there's an internal snobbery civil war going on as well, mostly comprised of 'hurling people' who hate Gaelic Football.

[geysir]

If the amount of training had little or nothing to do with Hunt's point then he shouldn't have made an expansive meal of the training/rest descriptions in the article
What Sweeney blithely ignored to mention was that most of the GAA players he referred to were mocking Hunt over the training/ rest /training /rest description,
a lifestyle that a serious county player could only dream about for 7 months of the year. And that's where perceptions of Hunt's credibility, fell árseways in that article.

[DeLorean]

Brolly's been digging a hole for himself ever since his remarks about Kerry not having any players coming through earlier this year.

And strangely enough, that seemed a reasonable point of view at the time.

[eitoof]

Quite possibly the most tedious "argument" I've ever come across.

My oranges are much better that your apples.

[BonnieShels]

But have you seen his banana? Woof.

[Stuttgart88]

Hunt's first article was a bit all over the place though and left himself (and his fellow soccer players) open to criticism/jokes. It was suicide really because he had the winning of this little battle hands down, if he just put as much care into the first article as he did the more recent one. He got there in the end I suppose.

This was his first article for anybody who missed it. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/stephen-hunt-gaa-players-would-find-life-tough-in-premier-league-30785091.html)

And Brolly's reply. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joe-brolly-stephen-hunt-wouldnt-last-five-minutes-in-an-ulster-club-final-30798756.html)
I'm struggling to see much wrong in Hunt' first article. The headline probably wasn't attributable to Hunt.

The article goes:
Brolly thinks footballers aren't role models
They can be role models though.
Most have clean living, even totally boring lifestyles because they are so focused around training and recovery
Hunt is from GAA country and loves it, so there is no natural disrespect
But full time pro football is very demanding and many fall by the wayside, even if they have the talent, because it is such a tough environment to succeed in
GAA players probably think they could do it too, but knowing both sports Hunt says footy is way tougher than these guys think

I suspect Hunt is fed up with the footballers have it easy jibes. The only mistake I found in Hunt article is the "wouldn't know what hit them" bit which comes across as antagonistic, but I suspect was prompted by Brolly's' digs.

I think Brolly has made a tool of himself here. Hunt comes across as much smarter in his writing (based on his other articles) than as a spoken interviewee. He has gone up in my estimation.

I reckon there are similarities between footballers, actors, singers etc. A tiny proportion get all the big gigs. For the rest it's tough.

[Stuttgart88]

The general consensus was that Hunt is a flute and is hardly in a position to be making the comment especially when he was out of contract and is "only" with Ipswich.

Eamonn Sweeneys piece was very good I thought and fair play to him, really enjoy his articles, ye'd know he is from the west. He has a lot of cop on.

I listened to hunts radio interview and i understood clearly what he was getting at, he wasnt as coherent or succint in the original article but it was pretty clear what he was trying to say. Anyone with an agenda though would have ignored that, but for the general public they all thought it was an out of touch Footballer who doesnt know what he is talking about.
The whole thing has got nearly ten thousand views on thescore.ie and the opinion there is quite strongly in favour of Hunt.

[geysir]

I'm struggling to see much wrong in Hunt' first article. The headline probably wasn't attributable to Hunt.

The article goes:
Brolly thinks footballers aren't role models
They can be role models though.
Most have clean living, even totally boring lifestyles because they are so focused around training and recovery
Hunt is from GAA country and loves it, so there is no natural disrespect
But full time pro football is very demanding and many fall by the wayside, even if they have the talent, because it is such a tough environment to succeed in
GAA players probably think they could do it too, but knowing both sports Hunt says footy is way tougher than these guys think

I suspect Hunt is fed up with the footballers have it easy jibes. The only mistake I found in Hunt article is the "wouldn't know what hit them" bit which comes across as antagonistic, but I suspect was prompted by Brolly's' digs.

I think Brolly has made a tool of himself here. Hunt comes across as much smarter in his writing (based on his other articles) than as a spoken interviewee. He has gone up in my estimation.

I reckon there are similarities between footballers, actors, singers etc. A tiny proportion get all the big gigs. For the rest it's tough.
Hardly anybody in the GAA world takes Brolly seriously. For most viewers of the Sunday game, Brolly grates on the nerves, he is disrespectful to footballers, to teams, to managers and to his fellow pundits, he has a rare capacity to wind up everyone. Brolly is a barrister and reenacts that provocative style of argument in the real world, when he should just leave it behind in his workplace.

[paul_oshea]

I have to say he is one of the worst speakers in the gaa world I've heard especially considering he is a barrister. I've seen many and most of the well known figures. I'd even put dara o'se ahead of him there was something more human about him and you could relate to, I got nothing from brolly in that respect and a lot of waffle.

His poor wife if the tea is cold or the spuds undercooked.

[BonnieShels]

I actually don'r mind Brolly as a pundit. I hate these public provocations. They should be kept for winding up Spillane and only Spillane.

[geysir]

I agree, provocations are best kept private and intimate.

[DeLorean]

I'm struggling to see much wrong in Hunt' first article. The headline probably wasn't attributable to Hunt.

Did you read the first Hunt article at the time or with the hindsight of the follow up? I'm not saying that you wouldn't have understood what he was getting at, but I do think it reads a lot more clearly having read his second piece. I knew reading the first article that he was inviting a hammering. He was basically saying that the GAA players wouldn't be able to cope, having to rest all of the time instead of going to work. That was never going to go down too well or elicit much sympathy. He never even referenced that while he's busy resting, the typical GAA player was probably laying blocks or cutting silage.

It doesn't really matter if the actual headline was attributable to Hunt or not, as this line implied the same thing (in fact, the wording was a lot stronger):


As somebody who grew up in the GAA, I can tell you that, as much as I love the games, if GAA players tried to live with the level of commitment shown by a professional footballer, they wouldn't know what hit them.

[Olé Olé]

Hardly anybody in the GAA world takes Brolly seriously. For most viewers of the Sunday game, Brolly grates on the nerves, he is disrespectful to footballers, to teams, to managers and to his fellow pundits, he has a rare capacity to wind up everyone. Brolly is a barrister and reenacts that provocative style of argument in the real world, when he should just leave it behind in his workplace.

I'm from Kerry and when Kieran Donaghy gave it the whole 'well Joe Brolly, what dya make of that?' I cringed. The reaction was exactly what Brolly sought and he got it on the biggest stage in gaelic football- the pitch on Croke Park on All Ireland final day.

He's a wind-up merchant and is provocative, but he can some very valid points when he shies away from that tone. Either way, I don't disdain him but I wouldn't take his bait. Hunt has done this but has maintained a degree of poise so marks to him. Shouting down a microphone on-pitch doesn't exactly demonstrate poise.

[Stuttgart88]

Did you read the first Hunt article at the time or with the hindsight of the follow up? I'm not saying that you wouldn't have understood what he was getting at, but I do think it reads a lot more clearly having read his second piece. I knew reading the first article that he was inviting a hammering. He was basically saying that the GAA players wouldn't be able to cope, having to rest all of the time instead of going to work. That was never going to go down too well or elicit much sympathy. He never even referenced that while he's busy resting, the typical GAA player was probably laying blocks or cutting silage.

It doesn't really matter if the actual headline was attributable to Hunt or not, as this line implied the same thing (in fact, the wording was a lot stronger):
Yes, it was that passage you quoted that I felt was the bit that let Hunt's first article down. I thought at the time of the first article there was little really to get worked up about, except that line did invite a reaction.

[DeLorean]

Yeah but wasn't that line the essence of the whole piece? The rest of the article was an explanation of why he felt that way, i.e. he has so much resting to do. I thought the whole article was poor to be honest, complaining about having to collect his kids from school or some guy from the airport. Surely those basic chores are common across the footballing world and won't put him at too much of a disadvantage. They certainly don't justify claiming that somebody who has a far more hectic and stressful schedule mightn't be able to hack it. I had enjoyed his articles previously, and his most recent one is far better constructed, but I can see why he came off as a bit of a spoiled prima donna to a lot of people, without further elaboration.

[Stuttgart88]

I honestly didn't see it that way.

[geysir]

I'm from Kerry and when Kieran Donaghy gave it the whole 'well Joe Brolly, what dya make of that?' I cringed. The reaction was exactly what Brolly sought and he got it on the biggest stage in gaelic football- the pitch on Croke Park on All Ireland final day.

He's a wind-up merchant and is provocative, but he can some very valid points when he shies away from that tone. Either way, I don't disdain him but I wouldn't take his bait. Hunt has done this but has maintained a degree of poise so marks to him. Shouting down a microphone on-pitch doesn't exactly demonstrate poise.I don't see the relevance of comparing the poise of Hunt as he takes yet another rest to compose a poorly expressed piece about how much he has to rest, with the wild emotions of a footballer just after he has won the biggest game of his career and playing a big part in it.

Whether Brolly can make a valid point now and again hardly justifies his existence as a crazed. rude. out of control pundit on rte. You may not be aware but Brolly has written quite some nonsence in columns for the Irish News, because he might write a good piece now and again doesn't add any sense to his many poor pieces.
I don't have an issue at all with Hunt replying, I'd encourage anybody to take issue with Brolly. It's just what Hunt wrote was so corny and poorly constructed and that was exactly why most GAA players (who were referred to by Sweeney) parodied Hunt and his rest routine and having to drive his range rover for 800 metres.

[Stuttgart88]

According to Brolly it was a Ferrari. :)

[eitoof]

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/off-the-ball/gaelic-games-and-soccer-just-cant-be-fairly-compared-30815376.html

Diarmuid Lyng, brother of ex Preston and Ireland underage international, Ciaran wrote this. I think he nailed the "argument" with his closing line.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well a lot of people I spoke did mention that the Dublin footballers, Mayo and to a lesser extent Donegal would be well up there in terms of the training they do.
Well in the case of the Dublin footballers, at least, there wouldn't be an awful lot of them with any sort of meaningful job. They train to a pretty good level of professionalism and they live the lifestyle too.

I thought Hunt's original article was very good, but I can see DeLorean's point that it doesn't really read as well if you don't already see where he's coming from, and the rest anecdote was low-lying fruit for a professional troll like Brolly.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/stephen-hunt-euro-2012-trapattoni-boredom-1854217-Dec2014/

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/stephen-hunt-italy-in-euro-2012-was-the-lowest-point-of-my-career-all-i-wanted-was-five-minutes-all-i-wanted-was-a-bit-of-loyalty-30865637.html

Hunt on the farcical preparations for Euro 2012.

"One Sunday morning, I went on Setanta with Paul Kimmage. Things were going well, I thought, and then with one sentence, he finished me. "My son wants James McClean to be in the Ireland squad." I stumbled and tried to think of a riposte. "Well, my daughter wants me to be in it," I said, but this wasn't much of an answer. Hell, it might not have been true. She was two years old at the time."

lol

I was still obsessively resting so when my wife would suggest joining her for a walk I would always say I couldn't. Sheasy was the same but David Forde was making us look bad.

Everywhere the wives went, they'd meet Fordey. "He's a real gentleman," my wife would say. "He's always holding doors open for us."

Fordey, or Clark Kent as we started calling him, was out being gallant while we stayed in the hotel, resting. "David Forde's over here having coffee, why can't you have a coffee?" my wife asked.

"He's third-choice 'keeper," I told her. "He's allowed go out. Me and Sheasy have to rest."

lmao

[dong]

Great piece. I hadn't read much of his previous stuff but that reads well.

[Fixer82]

Love reading his articles.
Piece like this gives us real insight. Sounds like they were bored off their heads. 'Stale' is a word that comes to mind.
Delighted he told Tardelli to f@€k off too

[SwanVsDalton]

Cracking read that. Alternately hilarious and tragic.

[tricky_colour]

I don't really see why you can't go for a walk when resting, it is hardly a strenuous activity, they can do their resting
when they are on the pitch like the rest of the squad :D

Serioulsy though if you are that bad you can't go for a walk you should not be there.

[DannyInvincible]

Enjoyable read, the above piece. However, just one thing; Hunt bigs up his supposed professionalism (and criticises another player's supposed unprofessionalism for playing a golf simulator with his son on the morning of the Spain game when he should have been resting), but since when did sentimentality have a place in professional sport? Does he think he should have played at the Euros simply in return for his dedication and loyalty?


I don't really see why you can't go for a walk when resting, it is hardly a strenuous activity, they can do their resting
when they are on the pitch like the rest of the squad :D

Serioulsy though if you are that bad you can't go for a walk you should not be there.

Muscles need inactivity to repair and recuperate. I'd be surprised if Hunt's opinion on this isn't influenced very strongly by a consensus within sports medicine.

[tricky_colour]

Enjoyable read, the above piece. However, just one thing; Hunt bigs up his supposed professionalism (and criticises another player's supposed unprofessionalism for playing a golf simulator with his son on the morning of the Spain game when he should have been resting), but since when did sentimentality have a place in professional sport? Does he think he should have played at the Euros simply in return for his dedication and loyalty?

Muscles need inactivity to repair and recuperate. I'd be surprised if Hunt's opinion on this isn't influenced very strongly by a consensus within sports medicine.

I don't think mild activity would do any harm, might even be beneficial. I mean in general exercise is good for you and inactivity is bad.
When muscles are in active they tend to lose strength, If you feel fit enough to walk you should be OK IMO, the experts are often not as expect as
they would have you believe.

[DannyInvincible]

That's not true. Muscles repair themselves when inactive. Prior exertion will result in strengthening through such repair (combined with the necessary nutrition, of course). Sure, exercise is good for you, but no muscle will be able to develop or regenerate through constant exercise. Rest is absolutely essential to muscle growth.

Are you suggesting that you would have a better understanding of this than a qualified doctor or medical practitioner? Their expertise is not self-professed. They have training and qualifications to back it up.

[geysir]

It's different strokes for different folks. Hunt might already have sucked out much of his his energy reserves, he might have taken repeated doses of steroids, his adrenals may already be exhausted. And considering his owl like alertness and hyper type personality, maybe he should relax and give his adrenals a rest.
It's not rest where a person recuperates, it's when they sleep, that's where the body does the repair work needed, therefore the professional's discipline is to ensure a good nights sleep and that there's enough nutrition for the repair. A person who goes out and has a few pints in the evening will not have the required deep sleep needed for the repair.

[OwlsFan]

I wonder who he was having a go at here:

"I remember one player spent what seemed like five minutes picking his family out and waving to them during the warm-up. I wondered about that. Was this a lap of honour or were we here for business? Pick out" your family and give them a wave but don't start blowing them kisses for a few minutes like it's a curtain call at a Broadway show. I thought it was unprofessional.

[tetsujin1979]

could have been any one of them.
I was in the stadium early before the Spain game and the Italy V Croatia game was still on the big screens when the players came onto the pitch. I was there with a friend of mine and he pointed out the difference between the Ireland players who walked around the stadium, taking photos, taking in the occasion, waving to the fans who were already in their seats, and the Spanish players who just came out, sat in the dugout and went back to the changing rooms. For them, with a European Championship win and a World Cup win, plus numerous European finals behind them, as well as domestic titles, a group game in the European Championships was just another game. For the majority of the Irish players, it was the highpoint of their international careers and the difference in their attitudes to it before the match was striking

[tricky_colour]

That's not true. Muscles repair themselves when inactive. Prior exertion will result in strengthening through such repair (combined with the necessary nutrition, of course). Sure, exercise is good for you, but no muscle will be able to develop or regenerate through constant exercise. Rest is absolutely essential to muscle growth.

Are you suggesting that you would have a better understanding of this than a qualified doctor or medical practitioner? Their expertise is not self-professed. They have training and qualifications to back it up.


"Are you suggesting that you would have a better understanding of this than a qualified doctor or medical practitioner?"

Well yes, sort of anyway.

You say their expertise is not self-professed, but you will probable find a lot of it is.

Let's take another commonly used remedy for injury, ie ice packs?
Is there any evidence they do any good? Well not a lot really.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/why-ice-may-be-bad-for-sore-muscles/?_r=0


But there has been surprisingly little science to support the practice. A 2004 review of icing-related studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15496998) published to that point concluded that while cold packs did seem to reduce pain in injured tissues, icing’s overall effects on sore muscles had “not been fully elucidated” and far more study was needed.

Last year, a small-scale randomized trial found no discernible benefits (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21059665) from icing leg muscle tears. The cooled muscles did not heal faster or feel less painful than the untreated tissues.



So there is no clear evidence ice packs help but they are still used pretty religiously.

I think it is a question of degree though.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2006/oct/19/healthandwellbeing.health1



After that, however, a gradual return to exercise is the best route to recovery. "A lot of people make the mistake of resting completely for four weeks if they get a sports injury, only to launch back into their fitness programme once they feel no more pain," says Ben Ashworth, a physiotherapist at the Olympic Medical Institute in Northwick Park Hospital. "Because the body's tissues harden themselves to activity over time, a sudden return can predispose someone to getting injured again." Instead, says Ashworth, they should consult a physiotherapist who will gently increase their exercise load. Pool-based sessions are often included because the water acts as a giant cushion for the joint and muscles.



I think the problem with these things is there is not a lot of proper scientific evidence, it is kind of hard thing to test anyway, you would need two people with identical injuries, one who rested one who exercised a bit and see who fairs best.

One of the things about ice packs is they are going to reduce the blood flow, and I think blood needs to get to the injured area to repair it.


Anther one here
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/blog/?p=935


Lead researcher Dr Jo Corbett believes that whilst ice immersion appears to have no benefit, it may also be detrimental to performance and have serious health risks:


“Ice baths are frequently used by sportsmen and women to help them recover after exercise but our results show they don’t work. They also pose a number of potentially serious health risks.”


So there is a lot for sport recovery practise done for which there is little no, or conflicting evidence. I expect resting
falls into a similar category.

Personally I think if you feel able to get up and go for a walk or a game of golf I will probaly not do you any harm.


So some of the professionals may have qualifications, but there is not a lot of evidence their qualification have much
worth. Most just unquestioningly follow what has been done in the past.

I would say your own body is the best judge, if you feel able to do something and it is not too painful it probably
won't do you any harm, obviouly if you feel yourself it is not doing you any good then it might be time to rest more.

[DannyInvincible]

"Are you suggesting that you would have a better understanding of this than a qualified doctor or medical practitioner?"

Well yes, sort of anyway.

You say their expertise is not self-professed, but you will probable find a lot of it is.

Despite professional qualifications? Mick Byrne-types and their magic sponges are a thing of the past.


Let's take another commonly used remedy for injury, ie ice packs?
Is there any evidence they do any good? Well not a lot really.

But we're discussing the benefits of rest; not physio-medical consensus on the value of ice-packs.


So there is a lot for sport recovery practise done for which there is little no, or conflicting evidence. I expect resting
falls into a similar category.

But aren't the recovery benefits of rest undisputed? Rest is simply essential. Have you got conflicting evidence or theories which suggest that rest might not be beneficial?


Personally I think if you feel able to get up and go for a walk or a game of golf I will probaly not do you any harm.

But what are you basing this on?


So some of the professionals may have qualifications, but there is not a lot of evidence their qualification have much
worth. Most just unquestioningly follow what has been done in the past.

Why would they be trusted then within the sports world? Are you suggesting a club should take advice from someone like yourself instead because you profess to have as much, if not a greater level of, expertise than the qualified professionals from whom they presently take advice? And do these professionals follow unquestioningly? Science is about trying, testing and observing. If something is proven to be detrimental, you can be sure those on top of their field will not pursue it.


I would say your own body is the best judge, if you feel able to do something and it is not too painful it probably
won't do you any harm, obviouly if you feel yourself it is not doing you any good then it might be time to rest more.

That's just reckless. Just because you don't feel immediate pain doesn't mean you aren't doing yourself potential damage or doing something detrimental to your overall fitness goals.

[tricky_colour]

Despite professional qualifications? Mick Byrne-types and their magic sponges are a thing of the past.



But we're discussing the benefits of rest; not physio-medical consensus on the value of ice-packs.



But it is an analogous situation, ie a long established practise based on no evidence.




But aren't the recovery benefits of rest undisputed? Rest is simply essential. Have you got conflicting evidence or theories which suggest that rest might not be beneficial?



Undisputed does not mean proven.

I might not dispute Paul McShane is the best Irish player ever, however than does not make it a proven fact.




But what are you basing this on?




Logic. If we had evolved to do stuff when we felt unable/unfit to do it we would all be cripples by now.

On the otherside of the coin we have many players who have persistent injuries despite getting the advice
of the best profession medics/trainer.

Look at Jame McCarthy for example, he is no dount getting the best advice from the professionals, but it does
not seem to be doing him much good, especially when it comes to Ireland matches ;)




Why would they be trusted then within the sports world? Are you suggesting a club should take advice from someone like yourself instead because you profess to have as much, if not a greater level of, expertise than the qualified professionals from whom they presently take advice? And do these professionals follow unquestioningly? Science is about trying, testing and observing. If something is proven to be detrimental, you can be sure those on top of their field will not pursue it.




In a nutshell yes, they would probably fair a lot better with injuries and results if they followed
my advice. The is not much in injury management which is actually proven and tested, it is more
tradition, someone else did it so others copy what he did.

Basically you have some third party telling you he knows more about your body and whether you are
able to do something than yourself, that seems unlikely because you are connected to you body by million
of nerve connections, the third party has essentially no connection to your injury other than a cursory
glance and at best a MRI scan or whatever.




That's just reckless. Just because you don't feel immediate pain doesn't mean you aren't doing yourself potential damage or doing something detrimental to your overall fitness goals.

It is not reckless, what is reckless is to listen to some third party who has a certificate from attending some
course and now thinks he knows more about how you feel and how capable you are of doing X Y and Z.

As I say, your body has had millions of years of evolution of trial and error to enable it to determine
when you are capable of doing a particular task, hence it is extremely unlikely it has got it wrong, if
it has we would al be cripples with unhealed injuries.

Conversely the medic has some certificate for going on some course for which he has probably
paid several thousand pounds for.

And of course he is going to get that certificate however useless he is because if he does not get it
he is unlikely to pay you several thousands more pounds to go on the next course.

We all instinctively know when we are fit enough to do something and we are the best judge of that.

I expect a lot of players have done themselves long term damage because some physio has told them
they have rested enough by now when their injury is unhealed and they go on to train based on the
physio's "expert" knowledge rather than trusting their own instincts.

[DannyInvincible]

You're going off on speculative tangents and, sure, scientific theories can be wrong, but the ice-pack example is not analogous insofar as there is overwhelming and undisputed evidence that rest and inactivity are essential to recovery. Are you denying that this is a proven fact?

There are lots of things we can potentially do that would leave us crippled. Just because we have evolved from a previous state (and whatever about my username!), it doesn't mean we are invincible beings; what we might personally think of as being intuitive can often be wrong. Plenty of humans have suffered unhealable disabilities as a result of doing things they might have thought they were capable of doing but couldn't. I could jump off my apartment's balcony tomorrow because I have the physical capacity to do so, but it's not something I will be doing because, not only will it do me no good, it probably will close to cripple me. I need not use such an extreme example to demonstrate that doing something just because we think we might be capable of doing it is not necessarily beneficial to our physical well-being. It's pretty obvious. When we don't know what the effects of a certain activity might be on a previous injury, a doctor is there to provide us with some idea as to what the likely consequences might be.

In all likelihood, James McCarthy is in need of more rest in order to eradicate his recurring problem. I would suggest that the reason he has seemingly not been given adequate enough time to recover is because of the immediate and pressing interests of his club; they need him (and are paying him a considerable amount of money) to help them win matches in the here and now and probably don't err on the side of caution as much as the medics would prefer if it were an ideal world.

Why do you think clubs are employing qualified medics and physios instead of laymen like yourself if their players would do better following your advice? Out of stupidity and a willingness to waste money?

To say a doctor, medic or physio gives just a cursory glance is grossly unfair to those practicing in those fields. Their job is to offer advice based on the evidence and symptoms; not to tell you that they know better than you. It's not a battle of wits. And the scans and technologies they have available to assist them are invaluable to diagnosing and treating injuries. Dismissing their value is simply ludicrous. You sound suspicious of modern medicine, the practice of stern examination and the awarding professional qualifications. I'd nearly go as far as saying you're being anti-intellectual.

As for your final paragraph, that's something entirely different. That'd be an example of a player being advised by a doctor, medic or physio to rest less and to play through pain he is sensing. Part of the medics role is discerning if the patient is OK; included in that is asking the patient themselves how they feel as well as analysing the objective evidence available. I'm not sure a responsible medic would ever advise a player to play against his own instincts if he makes the medic aware he's still uncomfortable or in pain. It would be a dereliction of duty. Have you any real-life examples of this actually having happened?

[Stuttgart88]

Just in response to tricky, as a runner I'd never consider a game of golf in the days before a race. It's deceptively tiring, enough to drain important energy reserves that you need to draw upon.

But would I walk or jog to training? Damned right I would.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/2015/1/13/7540163/stephen-hunt-opens-up-on-petr-cech-incident

Stephen Hunt opens up on Petr Cech incident.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/if-less-is-more-think-about-how-much-more-more-is-30916302.html

Found this part interesting.

"At that level, things move quickly and mistakes are punished. I tried to win the ball 40 yards from goal after a bad touch from one of their midfielders. If I had, it would have been a good chance to break on them, but I didn’t intercept it. Instead I was out of position by three yards, no more. Five seconds later, they’d scored, or more precisely Shane Long scored.

Shane got a lot of praise for his finish and he deserved it but something else stood out for me about his performance over the two games. His movement has gone up another level and it was top class on Wednesday night. Southampton have demonstrated that they are a club which knows how to improve players and while he hasn’t had many opportunities to play centrally, I think he has become a better player since his move.

I knew the manager would pick up on my mistake and there’s no point in saying it’s only three yards because even though it’s a movement that many people won’t notice, for a manager like Mick McCarthy it might as well be a hundred yards".

[Grafter]

Hope Hunt gets back in Ireland squad in 2015.. think his attitude and pluckiness are valuable attributes... give me an ageing Hunt over some more heralded, younger show ponies anyday... should always be a place in a squad for a crafty veteran looking for one last shot at glory e.g. Houghton in France '98 campaign.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I do worry about the lack of personality and lack of leadership in the current Ireland squads. If for nothing else, it would be good to have Hunt around for those reasons. Although I think the wing positions is one area where we are actually relatively well stocked.