20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League [Archive] - Page 19

legendz

06/12/2025, 7:12 AM

Mark Scanlon (on last night's episode LOI Central) says that the third tier won't be part of the League of Ireland, but will be run instead by Fran Gavin and the Competitions department within the FAI. Added that there would be an announcement this month. Didn't add much else of note.

"If you want to put it into that context, the Premier League is 1 entity. The EFL is the next entity that runs the next three tiers down below that. And after that you have the National League, but they're all different entities."
"I think this is the start of the creation of a proper football pyramid within Irish football"

It is positive that he was indicating that the Third Tier is the start. The Cork MSL is a Munster Central League. The Dublin commuter belt LSL is a Leinster Central League.
Taking Munster for example - if district leagues will be reluctant to integrate with MSL, possibly a Munster West League and a Munster East League in parallel will be the approach to take. Similarly in Leinster with a Leinster North League and a Leinster South League.
The indication anyway, which isn't surprising, is that different tiers will be run by different entities - be that national, provincial/regional and district level.

CorribsideSteve

06/12/2025, 9:38 AM

Carew Park is just a housing estate in Southill (admittedly a large enough one). Its a bit of s strange one.

Elfman

06/12/2025, 3:34 PM

"Miles off the First Division" is a public park!
Haha true!

Buckett

15/12/2025, 11:05 AM

More lists! Each one bigger and more ridiculous than the last!

pineapple stu

15/12/2025, 11:21 AM

nr637

15/12/2025, 2:33 PM

[QUOTE=Buckett;2237550]More lists! Each one bigger and more ridiculous than the last![/QUOT

Hi Buckett do you have a bucket list, or is complaining natural!

nr637

15/12/2025, 2:36 PM

Maybe we should have a list of all the lists, and arrange them into North/South groupings?

nr637 and legendz can have a B list of course.

(On a serious note, I'm amazed at how little news leakage there is on this topic)

Great to see your following pineapple!

BigEars

15/12/2025, 3:03 PM

Buckett

15/12/2025, 4:07 PM

[QUOTE=Buckett;2237550]More lists! Each one bigger and more ridiculous than the last![/QUOT

Hi Buckett do you have a bucket list, or is complaining natural!

"!" = exclamation mark
"?" = question mark

What does a bucket list have to do with complaining?

legendz

15/12/2025, 11:16 PM

There only seemed to be 4 strong contenders at the start of the process. The 5th, if true, is a bit of a surprise. Getting 20 seemed very optimistic. Thought they'd be doing well to get 10. Be interesting to see how it all shapes up. Pushing on in December for an announcement to be made, if one will be made this month.

EatYerGreens

16/12/2025, 1:46 AM

The lack of leaks is the concerning thing, it makes you think nothing is happening.
As otherwise surely somebody would have something half concrete.

Surely the ones selected will have been told to say nothing until it's all announced formally ? So leaking it wouldn't do them any favours.

nr637

16/12/2025, 8:45 AM

Surely the ones selected will have been told to say nothing until it's all announced formally ? So leaking it wouldn't do them any favours.

Maybe the FAI have issued Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA's) to clubs in case of rumours! :confused:

nr637

16/12/2025, 8:52 AM

[QUOTE=nr637;2237558]

"!" = exclamation mark
"?" = question mark

What does a bucket list have to do with complaining?

That made me laugh, just try reducing your complaining and enjoy the present m8.

kksaints

19/12/2025, 11:18 AM

https://www.fai.ie/latest/15-clubs-confirmed-new-fai-national-league/

15 of the clubs announced. Looks like they still want a few more based on them reopening the applications.

pineapple stu

19/12/2025, 11:52 AM

So 67 clubs applied, but only 15 were considered suitable - and given that's not a full two divisions, they must have been prioritising licensing over numbers. Which is as you want it, but it's still not a great look. Lucan and St Francis the only top-tier LSL sides I think? UCC the only top-tier MSL side. And three sides from Donegal runs the risk of repeating the problems with Salthill/Mervue/Galway a couple of years ago (and Salthill/Mervue are both in too).

It does look like this is more of the same rather than a new pathway unfortunately.

2 Year Contract

19/12/2025, 11:59 AM

Nearly all of the 15 have league of Ireland clubs in their general vicinity who they will never get close to matching support wise you’d imagine, even if any of them were to gain promotion(s)

outspoken

19/12/2025, 12:01 PM

My fear here would be this never really takes off and dies away like the A champ and we lose the likes of Mayo FC and CK United to LOI forever. Mayo FC would have been a great addition to the first division (no idea on facilities)

nr637

19/12/2025, 12:08 PM

https://www.fai.ie/latest/15-clubs-confirmed-new-fai-national-league/

15 of the clubs announced. Looks like they still want a few more based on them reopening the applications.

Also sources are hopeful that clubs based in the Offaly, Meath, Tipperary and Wicklow areas while Limerick may stilll be an option.

culloty82

19/12/2025, 12:14 PM

pineapple stu

19/12/2025, 12:19 PM

Also sources are hopeful that clubs based in the Offaly, Meath, Tipperary and Wicklow areas while Limerick may stilll be an option.
What sources?

My fear here would be this never really takes off and dies away like the A champ and we lose the likes of Mayo FC and CK United to LOI forever.
Very much so. This all feels very underwhelming given the time and effort it's taken to get to this point.

EatYerGreens

19/12/2025, 12:41 PM

Very much so. This all feels very underwhelming given the time and effort it's taken to get to this point.

It does. Though on the flip-side, it's good to see that the FAI is actually being strict about who should get in - and not just panicking and letting any 'aul applicants in for random reasons. We've come on a lot from how they used to do new entrants into the LOI FD.

Zico

19/12/2025, 1:26 PM

Interesting that Killarney Celtic have applied - fully capable of stepping up to the level based on their domestic record, but a number of their coaches and players have been involved with Kerry over the three First Division seasons, so could have another Galway/Mervue scenario if they get promoted.

A good domestic record has not translated into a good record at provincial or national level to date though. Really hard to get my head around this one and how sustainable it will be in the long run. Other than UCC, nearly every away trip will be over 3-4 hours. Same for all the other provincial teams I guess. As for impact on Kerry FC, it can only be a positive in terms of raising standards, providing a feeder club etc.

Roones26

19/12/2025, 1:28 PM

Must say I’m very surprised at the tone of some of the commentary here and the almost universal glass half empty approach that seems to be taken to the news.

People often profess on this forum that they want a pyramid in Ireland all the way down to the grassroots and ultimately this is what it looks like. It will mean there are clubs in areas where there are other clubs but local nature means people who are likely to go to letterkenny rovers etc are not likely to have been going to Finn Harps anyway or may do both.

From existing clubs that have joined the league they all seem to be strong intermediate standard clubs which goes to the strength of the licensing criteria I presume. These are the clubs with the ambition again presumably to be playing in the LOI First Division and in my opinion it’s up to the existing clubs within that catchment area to up their game and compete in “elite sport” in Ireland.

On the financial side of it; the clubs here obviously believe that they can make it work especially within the framework of an amateur league at least in the beginning and it would be my expectation that the financial governance on the regulator side has improved significantly through painful experience since almost 15 years ago.

What it boils down to is that these are the first clubs through the door as a proof of concept for every ambition that is to follow. They have a right to give it a go, the expectation is that based on th status of the clubs and the framework of the league it’s not likely to be ruinous so im positive

redobit

19/12/2025, 1:57 PM

Putting aside the specific teams, geography, etc. I think this a good day for Irish football.

A football pyramid has always been talked about and it's here now. It will find it's way and settle down, which could see a lot of change but just need to be given a chance bow.

pineapple stu

19/12/2025, 2:19 PM

Putting aside the specific teams, geography, etc. I think this a good day for Irish football.

A football pyramid has always been talked about and it's here now.

Must say I’m very surprised at the tone of some of the commentary here and the almost universal glass half empty approach that seems to be taken to the news.

People often profess on this forum that they want a pyramid in Ireland all the way down to the grassroots and ultimately this is what it looks like.
This isn't what a pyramid looks like though - that's the problem. This is just another level added onto an already failed system - the same as the A Championship. I think there's a big vote of "no interest" from the LSL and the MSL, which would be the strongest non-league areas and that's the biggest concern I think. We still have the problem Tralee faced in the A Championship days, that if they can't hack it or if the division folds, then they have no choice but to return to the bottom of their local pyramid. And we still have myriad separate local leagues which don't really help anyone other than those teams who like being big fishes in small ponds.

A pyramid solution would have seen the LSL come in as a Div 2 East, absorbing some of the other local leagues. What we have is very far from that (albeit a proper pyramid was never expected of course). It's much closer to franchise football.

Roones26

19/12/2025, 2:30 PM

This isn't what a pyramid looks like though - that's the problem. This is just another level added onto an already failed system - the same as the A Championship. I think there's a big vote of "no interest" from the LSL and the MSL, which would be the strongest non-league areas and that's the biggest concern I think. We still have the problem Tralee faced in the A Championship days, that if they can't hack it or if the division folds, then they have no choice but to return to the bottom of their local pyramid. And we still have myriad separate local leagues which don't really help anyone other than those teams who like being big fishes in small ponds.

A pyramid solution would have seen the LSL come in as a Div 2 East, absorbing some of the other local leagues. What we have is very far from that (albeit a proper pyramid was never expected of course). It's much closer to franchise football.

I think in fairness, some of this is a matter of perspective and some of this is a matter of process.

The way that the organisation is set up is in such a way that merging, absorbing or challenging the local league structures is so impossible that ultimately building down from above is the only politically palatable way to do it.

Fully accept that if the division folds it does nobody any good but the reverse is also true that if it is competitive and raises standards it makes this division and future ones more appealing.

67 clubs applied and 15 were chosen, who was rejected and who opted out and the process was so opaque I think speaking definitive about rejection or appeal of the division is unwise

pineapple stu

19/12/2025, 2:59 PM

The way that the organisation is set up is in such a way that merging, absorbing or challenging the local league structures is so impossible that ultimately building down from above is the only politically palatable way to do it.
That's fair - but that's where the lack of interest from LSL/MSL clubs is a concern. (I would be surprised if any of the 52 rejected clubs were top LSL/MSL sides, almost by definition)

You would have wanted to see some sort of move from LSL/MSL to LoI, but instead what we have is close to a repeat of the failed A Championship.

I don't mind new clubs joining and 15 is a lot in one way (more than has ever joined the LoI at one time before), but I think there's a deal to be cautious/skeptical about all the same.

culloty82

19/12/2025, 3:13 PM

Indeed, one would have thought Rockmount and Midleton would have been among the first to put their applications in here.

nr637

19/12/2025, 3:36 PM

What sources?

Very much so. This all feels very underwhelming given the time and effort it's taken to get to this point.

I prefer to read the positive threads not some of the doom and gloom posys.

Good day for football and well done to the FAI!

Roones26

19/12/2025, 3:41 PM

Perhaps there is something to be said about the teams coming from areas not currently served by high standard intermediate football. Connacht Ulster Rest of Leinster Rest of Munster where there is more of a premium on getting higher standard game time

nr637

19/12/2025, 3:41 PM

Indeed, one would have thought Rockmount and Midleton would have been among the first to put their applications in here.

Maybe some clubs just want to successful where they are and don't want to gamble with their current situation.

I also reckon some clubs will regret not taking this opportunity, as it is the best way to access the league profile format and over time the licence system application for clubs will only get harder as the structure develops.

legendz

19/12/2025, 3:52 PM

Was only idly musing if Killarney Celtic would apply. Kerry FC is representative of all of Kerry. A club operating out of the KDL wouldn't change that. Currently there is obviously no pathway for clubs beyond the KDL. The National League does throw open the question - are there clubs who want to play at a higher level if a pathway allows?

I was curious if Killarney would apply. I think they had friendlies against two LoI clubs last year. Killarney don't seem to see the Cork Munster Senior League as having been a route to take. If there are clubs in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary that think the same - Killarney's inclusion might be one for them to ponder.
So Klub Kildare aren't in and Newbridge are. Will be interested to see what happens there at youth level.
Are Galway and Donegal clubs a reflection of no Senior League route?
Was pessimistic about 10 clubs joining. Impressed by 15 on that basis, especially those without the Senior League option. Didn't see any mention of B teams. Might some join before the National League starts after all first teams are confirmed?
The Third Tier is a first step from the Pathways Plan. Whether it's the start of an integrated pyramid, time will tell.

holidaysong

19/12/2025, 5:54 PM

Does anyone have an idea if Lucan or St Francis are likely to also keep a LSL side in addition to this team?

Martinho II

19/12/2025, 6:48 PM

Rather disappointing that there was no applications from Cavan/ monaghan areas or Mullingar which is a much bigger town than Sligo!

Kiki Balboa

19/12/2025, 6:50 PM

Ck United arent fron either Carlow town or Kilkenny either. The towns arent even close.

Wonder if Kerry FC will merge with Tralee Dynamos in the future and rebrand.

Roones26

19/12/2025, 6:50 PM

Rather disappointing that there was no applications from Cavan/ monaghan areas or Mullingar which is a much bigger town than Sligo!

Monaghan United per the local paper did apply and were rejected

Buckett

19/12/2025, 6:56 PM

Ck United arent fron either Carlow town or Kilkenny either. The towns arent even close.

Wonder if Kerry FC will merge with Tralee Dynamos in the future and rebrand.

Do they still play their games in Laois?

culloty82

19/12/2025, 7:00 PM

Does anyone have an idea if Lucan or St Francis are likely to also keep a LSL side in addition to this team?

Killarney Celtic have "B" and "C" teams in the KDL already, so all depends on whether either already have reserve sides in the lower divisions, presumably.

da bishop

19/12/2025, 7:33 PM

Zico

19/12/2025, 7:47 PM

Wonder if Kerry FC will merge with Tralee Dynamos in the future and rebrand.[/QUOTE]

This would never happen nor is there any logical reason for it. Kerry FC was formed as a county team - franchise type model, whether people agree or disagree with this. The model has worked very well so far. Any club that goes alone in the county would struggle to unite a fan base, Killarney Celtic are definitely going to struggle here too. Killarney is a lot smaller than Tralee and soccer is a lot more popular in the north of the county. I wish them well and do believe it is good for the game in the county (all boats go up in a rising tide etc.).

Kiki Balboa

19/12/2025, 8:31 PM

This would never happen nor is there any logical reason for it. Kerry FC was formed as a county team - franchise type model, whether people agree or disagree with this. The model has worked very well so far. Any club that goes alone in the county would struggle to unite a fan base, Killarney Celtic are definitely going to struggle here too. Killarney is a lot smaller than Tralee and soccer is a lot more popular in the north of the county. I wish them well and do believe it is good for the game in the county (all boats go up in a rising tide etc.).

I am definitely not saying the model doesnt work, Kerry have been a huge success and fair play to them, but there is a possibility of the 'County' team system would break down if Killarney is a success, and maybe Kerry FC would need to evolve, (maybe for example into a Tralee / North Kerry team (full of what ifs...)).

I think we are used to the British system, which has been relatively static for team identities , but across world football, teams develop in dynamic ways, merging and splitting, changing crests, colours and names. Even here, Wexford has changed into a 'county' team (ie, name of the county and using GAA colours). So I dont think its unimaginable for another LOI team, especially one still in its infancy compared to others, to undergo these changes.

Considering the amount of 'County Teams' that were introduced into LOI underage at different points (Meath, CK, Klub Kildare, Mayo, Cavan/Monaghan), there are lessons to be learned from the biggest success story, ie. Kerry, and important to watch how it evolves.

Even the fact that Killarney are now in the 3rd tier might show what will happen if these county clubs become established in the LOI. Would success for Mayo mean that we will soon have a Westport United? Meath FC push Trim Celtic? Newbridge Town is absorbing Klub Kildare, will something happen to CK United eventually? Its a dynamic process which is a little unique in world football at the moment.

legendz

19/12/2025, 9:05 PM

I am definitely not saying the model doesnt work, Kerry have been a huge success and fair play to them, but there is a possibility of the 'County' team system would break down if Killarney is a success, and maybe Kerry FC would need to evolve, (maybe for example into a Tralee / North Kerry team (full of what ifs...)).

I think we are used to the British system, which has been relatively static for team identities , but across world football, teams develop in dynamic ways, merging and splitting, changing crests, colours and names. Even here, Wexford has changed into a 'county' team (ie, name of the county and using GAA colours). So I dont think its unimaginable for another LOI team, especially one still in its infancy compared to others, to undergo these changes.

Considering the amount of 'County Teams' that were introduced into LOI underage at different points (Meath, CK, Klub Kildare, Mayo, Cavan/Monaghan), there are lessons to be learned from the biggest success story, ie. Kerry, and important to watch how it evolves.

Even the fact that Killarney are now in the 3rd tier might show what will happen if these county clubs become established in the LOI. Would success for Mayo mean that we will soon have a Westport United? Meath FC push Trim Celtic? Newbridge Town is absorbing Klub Kildare, will something happen to CK United eventually? Its a dynamic process which is a little unique in world football at the moment.
The Kerry sporting landscape is familiar with a club representing a region and a club from that region going alone. Both can coexist. If a fully integrated tiered structure is on the cards from district league to LoI, it will become a bit more common place.
People can support their local "amateur" club and their local "elite" LoI club. Are there places where it would be one or the other?

"If the champions have been approved for a First Division licence, they will play against the team that finishes bottom of the First Division in a promotion-relegation play-off for a place in the second tier."
Agree with the winners having to have been approved for a First Division licence. Waste of time going through the formality of a playoff without it. It'll be interesting to see what First Division licence criteria are required. The usual standout for me is - will having academy sides be part of the licencing?
LoI clubs have invested in academy sides. If academy sides are required for a First Division licence, outside of CK and Mayo - are many of the other NL sides likely to invest in academy sides?

pineapple stu

19/12/2025, 9:18 PM

Delighted to see a pathway plan in place.but disappointed with the make up of the 15 selected so far albeit they passed the process for entry.Outside of the feeder club syndrome that will accompany some of the clubs the viability of having 3 clubs from Donegal with Harps in the first div doesnt stack up.2 clubs from Galway city with Galway Utd must also raise long term questions and then theres the prospects for two Kerry teams.Finance and results will determine many of these clubs futures.pity about Monaghan.
I think what it's showing really is that there's a gap in terms of the USL and the CSL (both defunct) - so in a way it's no surprise there's clubs from those regions looking to find something new for themselves. Though even that invites questions as to the strength of the league - I don't know enough about the teams to really compare them against each other, and finances outside a regional league will likely impact that. But I'd have my doubts as to whether it's comparable in strength to the LSL or MSL, and that in itself may impact which way the league goes in future years.

Kiki Balboa

19/12/2025, 9:28 PM

The Kerry sporting landscape is familiar with a club representing a region and a club from that region going alone. Both can coexist. If a fully integrated tiered structure is on the cards from district league to LoI, it will become a bit more common place.
People can support their local "amateur" club and their local "elite" LoI club. Are there places where it would be one or the other?

Again, not saying you are wrong... Just football is dynamic, and clubs do adapt. If this national league stays rather static, well fine, but if it joins together and becomes a regular LOI division, its not beyond belief that Kerry and Kilarney play against each other in the league eventually, bluring the lines of who is the elite one, and another identity might be needed (event a threat of this scenario might be enough)

Sure, similar to Kerry, look at in Louth, there is one elite team that does win league and pushes standards in Europe, and one part time/ amateur that most of the time just makes up the numbers in LOI, but every so often (and only a very very few times) they swap places. It does happen. (Joking).