20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[EatYerGreens]

No offence, but all this talk of choosing new NL members according to where they come from (county, population, rivals etc) is putting the cart before the horse.


Who was talking about choosing clubs?

Surely we're allowed to talk about the merits of potential contenders for future league teams? That doesn't mean we're picking them, like the teams in a school playground.

Are you the self-appointed pyramid police now? :D

[EatYerGreens]

Oh that gave me a laugh, especially the annoyance of the club secretary just oozing out of the piece. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall listening in to some of those conversations with the photographer and committee. You might think pull up and throw the endangered plant away but saying to a journalist? Rare biodiversity in Ballymun indeed! Its the luckiest find ever....

The club's crest still features the notorious 7 towers of the old estate, which are long gone now. They should consider updating it to add in their new found rare plant, instead of clinging to a part of the area's history that everyone was very happy to see erased :cool:

[EalingGreen]

Who was talking about choosing clubs?The FAI.


Surely we're allowed to talk about the merits of potential contenders for future league teams? That doesn't mean we're picking them, like the teams in a school playground.You're allowed to talk about whatever you like. Just as others should be permitted to express the opinion that such talk may be misplaced - in this case by concentrating on the location of candidate clubs, rather than their inherent strengths - support, finances, facilities, infrastructure and playing standard.


Are you the self-appointed pyramid police now? :D"Police"? I prefer Pharaoh myself.

[legendz]

A MOTION calling for the creation of a League of Ireland team in Clare has been passed by Clare County Council. I don't think the Clare County Council will be helping with any funding. Seems more at facilitating discussion!
Their best bet anyway is probably to take the youth league approach.

[Nesta99]

Or do their own local audit and decde on which club is best suited to represent the region. That local superclub can sign all the best locals and build and in time if they have some success they will be established as a senior club for all. A Thurles or Nenagh side in the mix will add another aspect.

[Elfman]

Not sure where to put stuff related to summer season/summer calendar changes but the Cork Business have announced a shortened 2025 season to prepare for a switch to a summer league in 2026:
https://corkbusinessleague.ie/2025/07/16/cork-business-league-divisions-confirmed-for-2025-short-season/

[Buckett]

It's these types of leagues that we need to get rid of

[EatYerGreens]

It's these types of leagues that we need to get rid of

What harm do they do? At least they're on board with the switch to Summer football.

A business league by its nature is not going to be ambitious about joining the LOI and being a core part of the pyramid, and is unliekly to be having young kids etc. So just let them do their own thing by themselves. The more people playing football the better.

[Buckett]

Absolutely agree, the more people that play, the better.

Three different league systems in a relatively small area however seems like nonsense to me. If they were somehow tiered I would understand but they're completely separate. All the FA's in the country could be whittled down to a dozen or so. Such waste, when you think of all the admistration roles and expenses with each district association.

[EatYerGreens]

Absolutely agree, the more people that play, the better.

Three different league systems in a relatively small area however seems like nonsense to me. If they were somehow tiered I would understand but they're completely separate. All the FA's in the country could be whittled down to a dozen or so. Such waste, when you think of all the admistration roles and expenses with each district association.

But business leagues are usually completely separate, stand alone entities. So they don't complicate anything, and the teams involved would be extremely unlikely to join a normal competitive league structure as that's just not what business football is all about. Let them play FFS.

[Buckett]

I mistakenly assumed they were affiliated with the FAI. If they're completely separate from the rest then fair enough. As I said I'm all for participation, from kick abouts to astro leagues and beyond

[Burnsie]

the Cork Business League is absolutely affiliated with the FAI

agreed that it's a nonsense to have so many different league systems in a country as small as ours

[EatYerGreens]

I mistakenly assumed they were affiliated with the FAI. If they're completely separate from the rest then fair enough. As I said I'm all for participation, from kick abouts to astro leagues and beyond

Affiiiation with the FAI is irrelevant thoguh. I'm not sure if you understand what a business league is, but it's usually a bunch of solicitors or accountants running around after a ball against other solicitors, accountants, factories etc. These are not clubs who will have any interest in joining the LOI pyramid, having academies, developing youth, selling players etc. That's just not what it's all about.

I played in a business league in England. I'd never have played for a 'proper' team, as I just wasn't good enough. And I'd no interest in playing against teams of angry 18yr olds taking it all far too seriously either. So if there hadn't been that Business League then I wouldn't have played football at all.

You may as well say it's ridiculous having Social Hurling teams alongside regular hurling leagues. They're very different animals. If you try to scrap it then the teams will just go off and run the leagues anyway unaffiliated to the FAI. So just let them play ball and stop being a killjoy FFS. Sport is for all.

[Buckett]

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't be allowed play football. I've said this in my two previous posts.
If they're affiliated to the FAI, then they have voting rights which determines the direction that football goes

[BigEars]

To be honest once a 3rd tier is established it'll make it much easier to fix up our football ladder, and a business league still has a place in that (but very much towards the bottom).

Until recently, Junior football in Cork had the Munster Junior League, Cork AUL, West Cork League, East Cork-West Waterford (now defunct) and Cork Business League.

If and when a 3rd tier is established, hopefully we can have leagues below that branch off of it.
So something like Munster Senior League-> North & South Munster Leagues-> Cork County League-> after that some regionalisation within Cork to reduce costs and maintain rivalries.

So perhaps City, North, East and West Cork leagues, with the business league sitting along a similar level (although likely being weaker) and their Champions having the option to compete in playoffs to be promoted to the County league.
Now there's a good chance they wouldn't be bothered, but I don't see any issues with connecting them to the ladder and giving the option, they'd still have to prove their ability on the field.

[Elfman]

It's these types of leagues that we need to get rid of
Au contraire, the league is so well organised and progressive, it's of the kind we need to replicate.

But I take your point on face value, and that of others, that it should moved to an appropriate level on the pyramid and not on the same level as County Leagues for Galway, Meath, Waterford and Kildare. Keeping it in the pyramid might mean it produces the next PSV or Bayer Leverkusen? :p

[Elfman]

If and when a 3rd tier is established, hopefully we can have leagues below that branch off of it.
So something like Munster Senior League-> North & South Munster Leagues-> Cork County League-> after that some regionalisation within Cork to reduce costs and maintain rivalries.


I think this is a great suggestion and one I'd like to see implemented myself. Given the Munster Senior League is just a three division Cork league, I'd personally limit it to one division and call the next two the Cork County League. Then have play-offs between all county winners to get promoted (or invites based on infra, fans, academies if you can guarantee impartiality).

My only concern is the reason why the non-Cork counties left in the first place. Was it travel costs, perceived bias, too high a standard... Anyone remember why?

[brendy_éire]

Not exactly where to put this, up worrying rumours about the FAI not going through with the calendar year.

https://www.the42.ie/fai-aligned-calendar-6773848-Jul2025/

Not sure what the mechanism for enforcing it would be. Withdraw funding, accreditation, insurance? For the FAI to hold a vote, then ignore it, would be ridiculous. So maybe not a surprise.
We're such a backwards country when it comes to football.

[Nesta99]

Well f the tail keeps wagging the dog then its time for the league to embrace the closed shop and for the FAI to direct all capital funding toward the senior game. May not happen but the FAI can make it policy to focus on infrastructure. Its less about dictating when leagues play as much as when transfer windows are for those who want to remain outside of the pyramid. Its a power play thats taking us backwards to when senior clubs had a tiny say in things. Maybe time to seriously consider going it alone with a major focus on youth under a LoI umbrella.

[nr637]

Not exactly where to put this, up worrying rumours about the FAI not going through with the calendar year.

https://www.the42.ie/fai-aligned-calendar-6773848-Jul2025/

Not sure what the mechanism for enforcing it would be. Withdraw funding, accreditation, insurance? For the FAI to hold a vote, then ignore it, would be ridiculous. So maybe not a surprise.
We're such a backwards country when it comes to football.


Any free link or attachment for the above!

[brendy_éire]

Any free link or attachment for the above!

I read it initially for free. Must have been paywalled later.

Basically says there are 40 leagues who won't accept the change, so the FAI might capitulate to them.

[nr637]

https://www.the42.ie/fai-aligned-calendar-6773848-Jul2025/?fbclid=IwY2xjawL1dLhleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETBpMHJR aTkySWUyS1FLM2xtAR5B8jjE2Pv3Zj1JHL5EYkXqS74g1i0l94 rLpxFIhq5N5BPwXwA-71PNa8NIIQ_aem_m1HR0OjZ9U_2EaRtjkNM-w

[Elfman]

The most galling thing for me reading that was the line about the FAI making an incredible offer to the SFAI to postpone the change to a calendar season for THREE YEARS and the SFAI still rejected it as they don't want any change at all.

The only option left seems to be the suspension of funding, insurance, accreditation etc. to force the SFAI to get in line. Which would obviously be a terrible and pretty nuclear option that I don't see happening, especially considering the SFAI have 30 votes on the FAI's General Assembly (and therefore have a big say in the election of the FAI's President).

If Cooke et al walk back on this change, do we think they should resign as they publicly pushed it so much?

[Roones26]

There is just a political reality here that the FAI Executive cannot force the leagues to make the change. There isnt the political capital for the nuclear options here and the external political actors have shown a willingness to back the leagues on this one.

Like what do you do here ?

[Nesta99]

Isnt it a bit coincidental that other parts of the national game are asserting themselves at a time that the senior game is experiencing growth and a real sense of confidence and identity - back in the box then! Maybe there is a way forward with county tyled teams simply as it can include more of these egos in the senior game, give them a vested interest. The capacity for division and infighting in this country never fails to amaze me, how on earth did we manage to cobble together any kind of country???

[Elfman]

There is just a political reality here that the FAI Executive cannot force the leagues to make the change. There isnt the political capital for the nuclear options here and the external political actors have shown a willingness to back the leagues on this one.

Like what do you do here ?

Agreed, it's just a non-runner politically. But since Cooke and a few others are up for election at the end of the year they could have tried to play hard ball, knowing they would be gone by Dec.

This feels like they're going out with a whimper instead of going down fighting.

[Elfman]

Isnt it a bit coincidental that other parts of the national game are asserting themselves at a time that the senior game is experiencing growth and a real sense of confidence and identity - back in the box then! Maybe there is a way forward with county tyled teams simply as it can include more of these egos in the senior game, give them a vested interest. The capacity for division and infighting in this country never fails to amaze me, how on earth did we manage to cobble together any kind of country???
By giving people a common enemy - in our case, it was the Brits! :p Then it was anyone who we perceived to side with the Brits... And now, it's anyone who doesn't agree with the status quo!! :D

[BigEars]

A cop out/pragmatic approach for rural clubs anyway may be to allow them to run both Winter & Summer seasons.

With the aligned summer season being recognised as the priority (longer) and what we're trying to funnel higher levels of the game into.

The Winter season would be shorter, but allow kids from Gaa centred backgrounds to still get involved in the game, and develop their abilities and interests in it and potentially move towards the elite level and summer season should their ability allow.

This is based off my belief that a lot of leagues are worried about what would happen to playing numbers if the seasons completely clashed with each over and playing both was impossible.

[Roones26]

Ultimately I think this is the right thread because i think the solution here is to push leagues into the gaps and kind of make summer football inevitable.

like the third tier is going to do a fair bit of lifting if it get going properly pulling more regional powerhouse clubs into summer football and filling out the gaps between it and the country or regional leagues with a structure that puts summer football in place creates a more organic pressure to gravitate towards summer football than merely imposed from above.

I'm a touch more charitable, I think the people here are mostly resistant because its the conventional wisdom that it will be hard for them to sustain going up against the other summer sports. I think that they are wrong but equally theyll say they run a league and I don't.

The FAI has to be taken as the organisation that it is not the one we wish it to be and the political reality was that even though the vote was won, it was not won by enough to prevent this happening

I also have a sneaking suspicion that there are too many weak clubs in Ireland and that in a more Darwinian world there would be mergers and clubs folding but equally thats a really hard thing to ask the people running those clubs to accept

[Nesta99]

Ultimately I think this is the right thread because i think the solution here is to push leagues into the gaps and kind of make summer football inevitable.

like the third tier is going to do a fair bit of lifting if it get going properly pulling more regional powerhouse clubs into summer football and filling out the gaps between it and the country or regional leagues with a structure that puts summer football in place creates a more organic pressure to gravitate towards summer football than merely imposed from above.

I'm a touch more charitable, I think the people here are mostly resistant because its the conventional wisdom that it will be hard for them to sustain going up against the other summer sports. I think that they are wrong but equally theyll say they run a league and I don't.

The FAI has to be taken as the organisation that it is not the one we wish it to be and the political reality was that even though the vote was won, it was not won by enough to prevent this happening

I also have a sneaking suspicion that there are too many weak clubs in Ireland and that in a more Darwinian world there would be mergers and clubs folding but equally thats a really hard thing to ask the people running those clubs to accept

You are right but if such thinking was widely supported we would have Louth United v North Dublin v South Dublin, Greater Dublin v Munster etc. Passively though non-senior clubs should probably be just allowed to....evolve even if it means extinction. As an extesion of that maybe we should just plough on with plans for the senior game, confidently, and as is mentioned the minnowists may just have to fall in to line. It takes the FAI to uphold a democratic decision though. I do think funding is key, you need affiliation to get grants so set certain criteria for affiliation. In the past the issue was needing to integrate underage for UEFA/FIFA regulations but we have national leagues now if threatened by thi group.

[nr637]

According to certain social media outlets the FAI have reduced the number of clubs interested in the new third tier league structure from 67 down to 37 after the initial grading process.

[Roones26]

According to certain social media outlets the FAI have reduced the number of clubs interested in the new third tier league structure from 67 down to 37 after the initial grading process.

Source ?

[EatYerGreens]

According to certain social media outlets the FAI have reduced the number of clubs interested in the new third tier league structure from 67 down to 37 after the initial grading process.

The audio-visual production industry must have been working at full pelt nationwide this Summer to produce 37 National-League quality promotional DVDs :D

[nr637]

Source ?

It was a LOI Group chat I scanned over the weekend. There was a piece that mentioned Skerries FC not being accepted but were continuing with their plans to enter the league in the future.

[nr637]

The audio-visual production industry must have been working at full pelt nationwide this Summer to produce 37 National-League quality promotional DVDs :D

I think mobile phones are all the rage now, Tik-Tok & Instagram are quiet popular social media platforms that enable users to create, share, and interact with content.

[Kingdom]

The club's crest still features the notorious 7 towers of the old estate, which are long gone now. They should consider updating it to add in their new found rare plant, instead of clinging to a part of the area's history that everyone was very happy to see erased :cool:

I read this post (on the subject) first and then went back to the origin - I assumed it was all a euphemism for weed or such substances rather than an actual biodiversity find...especially given it's Ballymun :-)

[John83]

Which greens do you think he's proposing to eat?

[Nesta99]

I think mobile phones are all the rage now, Tik-Tok & Instagram are quiet popular social media platforms that enable users to create, share, and interact with content.

DVDs are of course ancient, scarily for some of us now becoming collectables and the platforms you mention are the current cutting edge; But usually on here mention of DVDs is a not so subtle nod to Galway Uniteds appliction to join a new invitational Premier Division at the expense of Dundalk almost 20 years ago. Dundalk since have 5 titles, 3 FAI Cups, 3 Leagues Cups, a few others and EL groups. Galway United on the other hand.....ceased to exist (never miss a chance to comment on this, I'll forgive and forget one day....maybe).

Just in case you are lucky enough to be young enough not to remember the whole "farce" its in here https://www.balls.ie/football/fai-new-league-of-ireland-2006-promotion-dundalk-protest-164544

[Buckett]

DVDs are of course ancient, scarily for some of us now becoming collectables and the platforms you mention are the current cutting edge; But usually on here mention of DVDs is a not so subtle nod to Galway Uniteds appliction to join a new invitational Premier Division at the expense of Dundalk almost 20 years ago. Dundalk since have 5 titles, 3 FAI Cups, 3 Leagues Cups, a few others and EL groups. Galway United on the other hand.....ceased to exist (never miss a chance to comment on this, I'll forgive and forget one day....maybe).

Just in case you are lucky enough to be young enough not to remember the whole "farce" its in here https://www.balls.ie/football/fai-new-league-of-ireland-2006-promotion-dundalk-protest-164544
OK, that's it. I'm going to spend the rest of my life focusing on bringing down Dundalk, not just the club, the whole town.

[sbgawa]

OK, that's it. I'm going to spend the rest of my life focusing on bringing down Dundalk, not just the club, the whole town.

Talk about kicking a fella when he's down ;)

[Nesta99]

We'd just get Nick Lesson on board and you'd run from the trigger of PTSD!

[EatYerGreens]

I think mobile phones are all the rage now, Tik-Tok & Instagram are quiet popular social media platforms that enable users to create, share, and interact with content.

You are, of course, wrong. Mobile phones are just a fad. Tickety-Tock and Instaspam will be tomorrow's chip paper in just a short period of time.

The DVD is the mass media tool of the future. You heard it here first.

[Buckett]

We'd just get Nick Lesson on board and you'd run from the trigger of PTSD!

My plan for yer demise was going to be to try get Nick a job with the club and just let him do his thing!

[nr637]

You are, of course, wrong. Mobile phones are just a fad. Tickety-Tock and Instaspam will be tomorrow's chip paper in just a short period of time.

The DVD is the mass media tool of the future. You heard it here first.


I suppose like a lot of fans that used them, DVD's created a high quality and some came with special features, and you could skip from one scene to another and you never had to rewind.

[EatYerGreens]

I suppose like a lot of fans that used them, DVD's created a high quality and some came with special features, and you could skip from one scene to another and you never had to rewind.

Now you're coming round to the correct way of thinking ! Once you see the future, it can't be un-seen (much like walking in on your parents having sex)

[nr637]

Now you're coming round to the correct way of thinking ! Once you see the future, it can't be un-seen (much like walking in on your parents having sex)

Okay, not sure where you are going with that, so I will end this as you should!

[Nesta99]

My plan for yer demise was going to be to try get Nick a job with the club and just let him do his thing!

Cardboard cutouts at every entrance would do the job!

[legendz]

For the 20 National League clubs that will emerge, having academy sides should be part of the licencing for the League of Ireland eligibility.
If a Second Division is going to be formed eventually, currently only Mayo, CK, Kildare and possibly Shamrock Rovers B still jump out as likely contenders.
The academy leagues have had a good national spread. It'll be interesting to see the influence academy plans has on the criteria for 20 clubs joining the National League. It should be central.