20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[nr637]

Anyone know of teams interested in the new third tier, I heard several MSL teams are considering their options. UCC have the facilities and sports structure in place. I think that a number of the Third level/Universities are showing an interest. The option of scholarships are a great attraction to players.

[nigel-harps1954]

Can't see why many universities would be interested when it's outside the college year.

[EatYerGreens]

Anyone know of teams interested in the new third tier, I heard several MSL teams are considering their options. UCC have the facilities and sports structure in place. I think that a number of the Third level/Universities are showing an interest. The option of scholarships are a great attraction to players.

Would love UCC to be in the league, if for no other reason than they've had some great-looking sports shirts over the years with the skull and cross-bones on :D

[Nesta99]

Can't see why many universities would be interested when it's outside the college year.

If its a scholarship model then you could have players available outside the academic year. Healthcare courses often run over a 12 month academic year so maybe as part of the course/scholarship you dont have to use the traditional college calender.

[Eminence Grise]

I'd be surprised if any HEI entered it. Too much scrutiny on finances after dodgy property deals in UL, and UCC and TU Dublin running large deficits. The final bill for creating the TU sector hasn't come in yet and I'd be suprised if only TU Dublin was in debt. There'd be war with the unions if half a million was set aside to enter a team while classes of students paying anything up to 15k pa (more in some cases) are being taught by non-tenured (and never likely to be) lecturers paid by the hour.

Out of interest, Nesta, do you have any idea what a scholarship might be worth? My (limited) knowledge of the model would see fee waivers and access to coaching and facilities as the HEI's major financial input, but not necessarily payments to athletes.

[Acornvilla]

I'd be surprised if any HEI entered it. Too much scrutiny on finances after dodgy property deals in UL, and UCC and TU Dublin running large deficits. The final bill for creating the TU sector hasn't come in yet and I'd be suprised if only TU Dublin was in debt. There'd be war with the unions if half a million was set aside to enter a team while classes of students paying anything up to 15k pa (more in some cases) are being taught by non-tenured (and never likely to be) lecturers paid by the hour.

Out of interest, Nesta, do you have any idea what a scholarship might be worth? My (limited) knowledge of the model would see fee waivers and access to coaching and facilities as the HEI's major financial input, but not necessarily payments to athletes.
I'm sure there's many different levels of scholarship per school but for one example, just before Treaty United entered the league, my sister was on a scholarship in LIT (now TUS) to play for their women's team managed by Dominic Foley at the time, for her it was basically no fees for 4 years and access to training/coaching and all that, not sure there was anything on top for accommodation etc.

[nr637]

Can't see why many universities would be interested when it's outside the college year.

Well UCD haven't done so badly outside the college year over the years! :embarrassed:

[Eminence Grise]

I'm sure there's many different levels of scholarship per school but for one example, just before Treaty United entered the league, my sister was on a scholarship in LIT (now TUS) to play for their women's team managed by Dominic Foley at the time, for her it was basically no fees for 4 years and access to training/coaching and all that, not sure there was anything on top for accommodation etc.

Pretty much my own experience with students on scholarships. Fairly minimal stuff for anybody already eligible for a Susi grant - just the coaching and facilities. Campus accommodation would be very desirable, but for a squad of 18 that's the guts of 180k in foregone revenue. Say half that amount again in waived fees - you're looking at a 270k commitment before a ball is kicked. More if the fee waivers include postgrads or international students.


Well UCD haven't done so badly outside the college year over the years! :embarrassed:

True, but they were already in the system so unless they withdrew the choice was made for them. Also taught and research postgrads are year-round students so they'd be available. (Not that I can think of anyone doing a four-year PhD while playing for UCD.)

[pineapple stu]

(Not that I can think of anyone doing a four-year PhD while playing for UCD.)
Sami Belhout played in the Europa League while doing one.

Only example I can think of offhand though.

[2 Year Contract]

Sami Belhout played in the Europa League while doing one.

Only example I can think of offhand though.
Evan Osam or Josh Collins maybe? I know football wise they played for UCD for 6 and 5 seasons respectively

[pineapple stu]

Don't think so. Osam just has a physiotherapy degree I think (per his clinic's site anyway). Collins has a Master's per LinkedIn.

[Nesta99]

I'd be surprised if any HEI entered it. Too much scrutiny on finances after dodgy property deals in UL, and UCC and TU Dublin running large deficits. The final bill for creating the TU sector hasn't come in yet and I'd be suprised if only TU Dublin was in debt. There'd be war with the unions if half a million was set aside to enter a team while classes of students paying anything up to 15k pa (more in some cases) are being taught by non-tenured (and never likely to be) lecturers paid by the hour.

Out of interest, Nesta, do you have any idea what a scholarship might be worth? My (limited) knowledge of the model would see fee waivers and access to coaching and facilities as the HEI's major financial input, but not necessarily payments to athletes.

Im not sure if any use EG as I'm well out of the loop but maybe still is something of a guide. Diferent local authorities and (private) scholarship all differed. It differs for sports and institutions too but ball park in olden days (mid noughties) when councils paid educational grants and scholarships needed to be declared - GAA scholarships were graded up to €8k, county level players getting most (top players had fringe academic benefits ie passed even with non submissions/attendance so could be on a scholarship but lose fees grant - was messy), finances allocated for the womens game were often partly allocated so mens funding could be added to so wasnt always a straight forward answer or formally done/declared. Funding tended to be from institutes' own budget and provided by Croke Park + wealthy county boards, so a county player from Louth in the DCU Sigerson Cup team could be on less than a Meath player or Dub if on anything at all.

Soccer was €3k average, much less schoarships available and would differ with the highly coveted elite places at UCD. Local funding generally, Cooperation Ireland for border regions, I dont recall much FAI input. Rugby was expenses level stuff but they provided the most proper coachees/dprovinical development officers. Fees were not generally waived or paid out of or by scholarship when that money could still be transferred from one govt entity to another eg Carlow IT wouldnt have waived fees for a chap that would get a grant from LouthCoCo. If the student wasnt getting a grant then fees would be part of the scholarship or waived. There was some free accomadation involved but rent wasnt the issue it is now.

Current figures are probably much higher but as are costs. Id say they are run better, no rigging passing moudles having not spent a day in class, budgets properly accounted for and allocated as intended. SUSI is better set up to deal with fee waivers v fees grants etc. Im not sure thaere are any soccer scholarships bar UCD, maybe some local schemes. Rugby has made most impact imo, expenses + providing coaches seemed to hit the balance where significant scholarships from GAA well lads were banjaxing themselves with drink and not keeping up the academics but this is properly tracked now.

Not sure its that ramble is any use bar an idea of what it was like and that its been tidied up. Id love to see Rovers setup for their academy, curriculum, academic/training balance, them knowing the scholarship options inside out or keeping players away from scholarships, on theor own books but lettig the kids get to uni too. Only way forward to full talent development imo and need replicating by clubs in conjunctions with schools and colleges/TUs.

Interestingly DkIT hasNT merged with other ITs to form a TU, they have a memorandum of understanding with NUI Maynooth and that seems to be the route taken to get University status - whether as a campus of Maynooth or whether a new name will be put un the merged institution - NUI Dundalk....

[EatYerGreens]

True, but they were already in the system so unless they withdrew the choice was made for them.

Either they could field a team in Summer football after the change was made, or they couldn't. The fact that they continued in the league both then and ever since suggests that it wasn't really an issue for them.

[EatYerGreens]

Interestingly DkIT hasNT merged with other ITs to form a TU, they have a memorandum of understanding with NUI Maynooth and that seems to be the route taken to get University status - whether as a campus of Maynooth or whether a new name will be put un the merged institution - NUI Dundalk....

Isn't that because DkIT was the odd one out - with no obvious potential partner?

[Eminence Grise]

More complicated than that, EYG, and too much to go into without dragging this off-topic. The early running was for a BMW TU (https://www.donegallive.ie/news/donegal-news/45409/BMW-Regional-Assembly-Backs-Major-University.html) but it didn't get traction for a host of reasons.

It was hard enough to merge ITs into TUs, but merging a 'traditional' university with an IT will be an achievement up there with splitting the atom! Different staff contracts, pay scales and titles; TUI in DKIT, IFUT in MU; the percentage of PhD qualified staff in DkIT below the requirement for merger with another IT, never mind a university where a lecturer without a PhD is a rarity. The new DkIT president is a savvy operator, but any merger will be a take-over by MU - there certainly won't be a Maynooth Technological University!

[Nesta99]

I prefer a takeover and become part of a traditional university rather than a TU. Cant really see NUI Maynnooth Dundalk Campus title, just sounds fussy. NUIMD? It will take serious time to meet academic staffing minimums, + number of research progrmmes never mind the admin kind of alignment of payscales, job titles. In time! and could be the move of the old ITs in to the University sector rather than TU, as little like St Pats in to DCU.

[Eminence Grise]

Done right, the TU sector has an awful lot to offer and does a lot of stuff better than the traditional universities. MU-DkIT is an intersting space to watch, and I don't want to be too mischievious by suggesting that all three TU Dublin campuses are closer to DkIT than MU is!

Anyway, back on topic. Would any team from Maynooth have ambitions to enter a national league - a town club or the university? I know it's not everything but the population base is there. Maybe the pontifical university is holding out for the priests' over 75 league!

[EatYerGreens]

I prefer a takeover and become part of a traditional university rather than a TU. Cant really see NUI Maynnooth Dundalk Campus title, just sounds fussy. NUIMD? It will take serious time to meet academic staffing minimums, + number of research progrmmes never mind the admin kind of alignment of payscales, job titles. In time! and could be the move of the old ITs in to the University sector rather than TU, as little like St Pats in to DCU.

Dunooth Uni? University of Maydalk?

I'll get my coat...

[Nesta99]

In a widly speculative way, a propper football scholarship at DkIT (preferably with Maynooth), and a sde that playes in a senior regional league system is something that Dundalk FC should not miss out on with a direct of affiliate role that can be used as a B team and senior player development between U19 and 1st team. Conflict of interests could be ironed out with some creative thinking.



Its is off topic but still interesting, is another TU needed in whatever form in Dundalk, duplication of courses with Dublin counterparts. A university campus of NUIM can take pressure off rent issues for students and reduce commute impact in the North East/Dublin, as much due to people heading north during the peak commute south to Dublin and visa versa, some of the benfits of the TU sector could be kept for students that need that pathway. A University campus would also attract more interest from N.I. opening up H.E. partnership opportunities cross border that can access significant funding. Major potential in a competative sector that can be unique rather than regional duplication. Additional access to funding could lead to campus development like dusting off the DkIT plans for a stadium, all ancilliary infrastructure exists including TV studios, parking, catering, off M1 etc and Oriel Park + environs are fine for womens and underage pitch capacity. Joined up thinking rather than piecemeal duplication. Even LouthCoCo might want a piece of the action with a heavy hitter of the university sector. One can dream but it does tick an awful lot of boxes, from community development, Higher Ed, climate action and sporting infrastructure, for reasonable financial outlay not all out of the public purse!

[nr637]

The new proposed 3rd Tier has really created plenty of conversation within clubs across the country. Now with the move to Summer soccer being implemented, many progressive clubs will really have to consider their future in regards to their development plans. I am really excited to see how the structure of this new National League advances and what clubs apply!
It's a really exciting time for domestic football and fans not only for the Airtricity League in 2025!

[Buckett]

I think the sensible thing to do, while supporting the LOI, is not to get your hopes up or get too excited about anything the FAI says

[Nesta99]

In this regard I dont think a major fail will be due to the FAI and more with resistance from the junior game to come to heel. If it does happen and that powerbase has it's will broken then we could see almost an expotential progress of change across the game.

[Buckett]

But if there's no prizemoney worth the risk for the junior clubs to move then it's the FAI's fault

[Nesta99]

Is there any prizemoney of significance now?

[Buckett]

No, so if it's less than the 1st Division, what chance is there?

[yurt]

I think the sensible thing to do, while supporting the LOI, is not to get your hopes up or get too excited about anything the FAI says

Sensible advice. I would just say from my point of view anyway that managing to get the summer football proposal passed with a majority vote was a major achievement by the FAI. I would say my belief in the FAI has gone from none to some in the past couple months.

I expect this additional tier to take at least an additional year from the current proposed start date but if we have an aligned calendar and some semblance of an actual pyramid by 2030 I would say that it is a job OK done.

[Nesta99]

No, so if it's less than the 1st Division, what chance is there?

So something will be better than the current status quo! Id expect prizemoney to be announced but it wont be massive considering its sh1t for Premier winners. These things will only happen in stages. As a starting point, a regionalised tier III, will have more prestige with winning potentially giving access to the highest level of the game. Bring regioalised is unlikely to add to travel costs and any additiona costs a club takes on eg signing players on any more than expenses or what they do now will be of their own doing and not a necessity. Absolutely the fiancial carrot will ease the way, improve interest but there is more to it than just money.

[Buckett]

So something will be better than the current status quo! Id expect prizemoney to be announced but it wont be massive considering its sh1t for Premier winners. These things will only happen in stages. As a starting point, a regionalised tier III, will have more prestige with winning potentially giving access to the highest level of the game. Bring regioalised is unlikely to add to travel costs and any additiona costs a club takes on eg signing players on any more than expenses or what they do now will be of their own doing and not a necessity. Absolutely the fiancial carrot will ease the way, improve interest but there is more to it than just money.

Doing it in stages? The prizemoney is terrible and there's only two divisions. Took them 60 years to add the second tier. How people defend the association is beyond me.

Being regionalised won't reduce costs too much. You won't have Donegal teams playing Cork teams but a Mayo team playing in Louth would still be paying close to €1k for a bus.

[EalingGreen]

But if there's no prizemoney worth the risk for the junior clubs to move then it's the FAI's faultWhen it comes to "fault", it shouldn't be an either/or. Rather it should be for both the FAI to create the right environment and the clubs then to seize the opportunity.

Re the former, I don't see how this proposal is fit for purpose, since it is both too big a step-up for the average Intermediate club to envisage; while for those clubs who do get admitted, the step-up from there to the First Division is likely to great as well. In that sense, it can hardly be called a pyramid, esp if half the teams (more?) may need to be LOI Reserve teams.

And as for the latter, if clubs have to rely on prize money to sustain a place at this level, then that won't work, either. For such money could only come from sponsorship (can't see that ever amounting to anything at that level) or from the FAI. And with the FAI struggling to provide decent prize money for the top two tiers, itself insufficient, how are they going to find extra for up to 20 new teams?

Besides, as a matter of principle, clubs shouldn't have to rely on prize money (i.e. a handout) to exist, even if it was available. For in the end, if a club is to be sustainable beyond purely amateur level, it has to be able to raise revenue from its own resources. Obviously the basic should be gate money, which means it must be grounded in its community/catchment area in order to generate support at an appropriate level. Following on from this it means having a stadium fit to be able to charge a reasonable amount (as well as offering a higher standard of football, obviously).

So that from that basis, the club can then hope to raise matchday revenue from bars and restaurants etc, plus maybe even non-matchday revenues from lotteries, social club, commercial and events etc. This in turn can lead to further revenue from sponsorship and local businesses as they wish to be associated with a thriving local club etc.

Of course, all of this takes enormous time and effort over years, even decades, from volunteers and community members, with the point being that you start this process incrementally from the ground up, rather than seeking to build from the top down (i.e. a 3rd tier).

Which is where the FAI comes back in, by offering a long term vision and format, with suitable support and resources, to encourage the most ambitious clubs with the most potential to set out on the long journey.

EDIT: One further element I ommitted to mention is that ambitious local clubs can also often hope to attract a wealthy benefactor, keen to suppport his/her local club. But that can only happen if they can see genuine potential for the club to progress, rather than it being a mere money pit. Which again comes back to vision, format and process from the FAI.

[Nesta99]

Doing it in stages? The prizemoney is terrible and there's only two divisions. Took them 60 years to add the second tier. How people defend the association is beyond me.

Being regionalised won't reduce costs too much. You won't have Donegal teams playing Cork teams but a Mayo team playing in Louth would still be paying close to €1k for a bus.

Defend the association? Where pray tell? My point on regionalising, will there be additional costs to particpate eg travel. Are you an old junior blazer that is reluctanly realising their new place in the football system?

[brendy_éire]

Being regionalised won't reduce costs too much. You won't have Donegal teams playing Cork teams but a Mayo team playing in Louth would still be paying close to €1k for a bus.

Agree with this point. You could save money by having the players travel in cars, but it's not great.
In an ideal world, I'd have travel costs covered centrally (reduce prize money, if needs be). A centralised contract with BÉ, for example, would surely be cheaper overall.

[Nesta99]

That's not a bad idea at all, if they could be convinced to be sponsors and somehow factor (some of) the costs in.

[Buckett]

Are you an old junior blazer that is reluctanly realising their new place in the football system?

Absolutely not! I'm just struggling to see how the system will be changed. I think a proper pyramid is needed. I think it can be changed both from the bottom up and the top down simultaneously. But a lot of money is required

[Nesta99]

Or in the absence of a lot of money, rather than do nothing, that a phased approach is taken. It would be nice to see an endgame target of €x per club partifipation fee by 202y.

[EalingGreen]

Or in the absence of a lot of money, rather than do nothing, that a phased approach is taken. It would be nice to see an endgame target of €x per club partifipation fee by 202y.One man's "participation fee" is another man's "bribe".

And why pay a select 20 clubs to participate, but leave out all the clubs below this tier? (I say "20", but should LOI Reserve teams also be paid?)

While FD sides would demand something similar to "level up", esp since PD sides also get UEFA money.

And how much are we talking about? (Up to) Twenty NL teams would eat up a fair amount, season after season, and who's going to pay it?

Could only be the FAI who, as we know, are skint. Meaning that any such budget would be at the expense of either the wider game in the country (grassroots, women, youth, community etc) and/or the NT, who generate the majority of FAI funds in the first place.

And those are just the practical considerations - as a matter of principle, surely clubs should be required to operate according to their own resources at whatever level they achieve, if they (and the competition) are to be sustainable over the long term?

[Nesta99]

My commesnt is in relation to prizemoney spoken about by Buckett and how it will be the fault of the FAI for clubs not getting involved without money being on offer. Clubs at that level should be happy with silverware and/or prestige really. But there should be some way at looking to address any increase in costs (not player budgets) when joining the new system. Over time there could be participaton payments if say we got a TV deal.

[Elfman]

Absolutely not! I'm just struggling to see how the system will be changed. I think a proper pyramid is needed. I think it can be changed both from the bottom up and the top down simultaneously. But a lot of money is required
I agree wholeheartedly with you on this and am just curious to hear your take on where the bottom would start - county level? (e.g. Mayo), regional districts? (e.g. Tipp's North and South leagues, West & East leagues in Cork), or go even smaller? (I don't know if there's leagues at this level... But I'd love to find out. Maybe this would have to be by parish or townland if there's enough teams?)

[Buckett]

Regarding the bottom, it just needs tidying up a small bit.
Take Cork for example, there's junior leagues there but there's also junior divisions of the Munster Senior League. Same with the LSL.
I think there are too many leagues. I don't think they have to be based on counties either.

[culloty82]

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this and am just curious to hear your take on where the bottom would start - county level? (e.g. Mayo), regional districts? (e.g. Tipp's North and South leagues, West & East leagues in Cork), or go even smaller? (I don't know if there's leagues at this level... But I'd love to find out. Maybe this would have to be by parish or townland if there's enough teams?)

Re the bottom, in Kerry at least, the county leagues range from the purely recreational clubs that form and re-fold in the bottom divisions on an annual basis, the more structured clubs whose fortunes rise and fall depending on the fortunes of the local GAA team (Fenit, Rattoo, Castlegregory, etc) and then the top sides who would be capable of progressing in a restructured regional intermediate tier (the two Killarneys, Dynamos, Listowel Celtic, Brendan's Park). As such, I would have:

Premier Division > First Division > National League > Provincial (Intermediate) Leagues > County (Junior) Leagues

[BigEars]

Re the bottom, in Kerry at least, the county leagues range from the purely recreational clubs that form and re-fold in the bottom divisions on an annual basis, the more structured clubs whose fortunes rise and fall depending on the fortunes of the local GAA team (Fenit, Rattoo, Castlegregory, etc) and then the top sides who would be capable of progressing in a restructured regional intermediate tier (the two Killarneys, Dynamos, Listowel Celtic, Brendan's Park). As such, I would have:

Premier Division > First Division > National League > Provincial (Intermediate) Leagues > County (Junior) Leagues

Imo only division that covers the entire province would be necessary in most regions (perhaps Leinster is an exception).

I'd split provinces regionally below that level, so for example after the Munster Senior League, you'd have something like North/South Munster Premier Division and North/South Munster First Division, and then either a split into County basis or your current Junior leagues.

At the moment there's two leagues in Limerick, two leagues in Tipperary etc, you could argue for these to feed into one County wide league, before flowing up into North Munster (or East/West if you preferred instead of North/South).

Any time the steps seem too big it may put more clubs off from wanting to be involved in the process.
So Premier Division> First Division> National League> Provincial League> Region of Provincial League, County League> Junior/region of county (eg. North Tipp) may be the best way to go.

[EalingGreen]

Imo only division that covers the entire province would be necessary in most regions (perhaps Leinster is an exception).

I'd split provinces regionally below that level, so for example after the Munster Senior League, you'd have something like North/South Munster Premier Division and North/South Munster First Division, and then either a split into County basis or your current Junior leagues.

At the moment there's two leagues in Limerick, two leagues in Tipperary etc, you could argue for these to feed into one County wide league, before flowing up into North Munster (or East/West if you preferred instead of North/South).

Any time the steps seem too big it may put more clubs off from wanting to be involved in the process.
So Premier Division> First Division> National League> Provincial League> Region of Provincial League, County League> Junior/region of county (eg. North Tipp) may be the best way to go.
So if you do organise your structure around basically geographical or traditional ideas of Province/Region/County etc, how do you cope with the fact that some of these delineated areas will have lots of clubs which are competitive, strong and sustainable both on and off the field; whereas other areas will struggle for numbers?

I mean, it's been glaringly obvious for years with eg the deterioration or demise of the Connacht and Ulster Leagues, versus the growing strength of the Dublin clubs. And I know you must all be sick of me referring to NI/IL, but our set-up accepts that two of our regional associations (Co.Antrim and Mid Ulster) are always going to be much stronger than the other two (Fermanagh & Western, North West), and so looks to strengthen and expand by encouraging and rewarding the most progressive clubs via a pyramid, irrespective of where they are located.

[BigEars]

So if you do organise your structure around basically geographical or traditional ideas of Province/Region/County etc, how do you cope with the fact that some of these delineated areas will have lots of clubs which are competitive, strong and sustainable both on and off the field; whereas other areas will struggle for numbers?

I mean, it's been glaringly obvious for years with eg the deterioration or demise of the Connacht and Ulster Leagues, versus the growing strength of the Dublin clubs. And I know you must all be sick of me referring to NI/IL, but our set-up accepts that two of our regional associations (Co.Antrim and Mid Ulster) are always going to be much stronger than the other two (Fermanagh & Western, North West), and so looks to strengthen and expand by encouraging and rewarding the most progressive clubs via a pyramid, irrespective of where they are located.

If the Dublin clubs are stronger, then they'll likely take the majority of places in the Leinster Premier Division and be the ones most likely to get promoted to the National League (and potentially above).

Their increased strength will be reflected in having more teams in tiers 4 & 5 than other places.
Btw there are some very strong Junior clubs in Munster (outside Cork) and Connacht who'll probably be more than capable of challenging to get into the National League but don't currently have a reasonable opportunity to play at Provincial level.

What's your alternative proposal btw ?

[Elfman]

Thanks for the suggestions folks! Some great ideas here and I'd be keen to hear more from you Buckett about the benefits of not limiting the leagues to county borders.

My own view was similar to culloty82 and BigEars in terms of the county leagues, with allowances made for natural divisions like West Cork and South Tipp. However, that view was personally based more on Irish tradition & GAA mindset so if there's a better way I'm definitely interested.

The point about weaker provinces from EG is a good one: how to ensure teams in less traditional strongholds don't get left behind if we move to a meritocracy? I guess the hope is better league regulations (stadiums, youth, training facilities) and proper enforcement of them would help the cream rise to the top, meaning the CSL and USL would return one day, even if it was as a merger of the two.

Grants might help level the playing field but I honestly think the biggest boost to development of weaker areas has been the introduction of the national underage leagues. A flawed system, no doubt, but there's a huge difference between kids attitudes to LOI now and when I was playing underage which I would attribute to seeing their friends and family play for LOI teams at youth level.

I certainly wouldn't be against hearing what's worked well in Northern Ireland so fire away EG!

[Neish]

Being regionalised won't reduce costs too much. You won't have Donegal teams playing Cork teams but a Mayo team playing in Louth would still be paying close to €1k for a bus.

Of course (proper) regionalisation will save costs. If a Mayo team travelling to Louth will cost 1k a mayo team travelling to cork,kilkenny , carlow etc will cost €1.5-2k.

[Roones26]

Any idea of how many 3 weeks out from closing date ?

[yurt]

I personally have no idea. I was initially bullish on how many clubs would be aiming to make the step up to compete at a higher level but we have only heard a handful of rumors from different parts of the country.

The FAI put out another statement in the past couple weeks appealing again for submissions to be made before the Feb deadline. I'm not sure if we should be smelling a whiff of desperation to try and stir more interest or if it should just be considered common practice to keep the concept in the headlines.

[nr637]

I remember seeing a post on Facebook thread where the following clubs that have regularly been named as showing credible interest, but were looking for further details obviously.


Monaghan United - Coming off the back of the Monaghan-Cavan Partnership. Have previous league experience.

CK United - which comprises of Carlow/Kilkenny. FC Carlow were in the old A Championship and Kilkenny were in the League of Ireland.

Klub Kildare - Kildare has had league representation with Kildare County before.

Castlebar Celtic

Tullamore Town

Fanad United

Mervue United

Salthill Devon

Maynooth University Town

University College Cork


And it would be nice to see interest in other unrepresented populated provinical areas like Mullingar, Portlaoise, Ennis, Navan

:confused:

[EalingGreen]

I remember seeing a post on Facebook thread where the following clubs that have regularly been named as showing credible interest, but were looking for further details obviously.

Monaghan United - Coming off the back of the Monaghan-Cavan Partnership. Have previous league experience.
What's the score with Monaghan United these days?

According to their Wiki page (yes, I know):
"In 2019 the club entered a senior men's team into the Monaghan Cavan League, and in 2021, the club joined the Ulster Senior League, playing one season before re-entering the Monaghan Cavan League."

Yet if you look at the Monagan Cavan League website, though United finished fourth in a seven team league in Season 2023/24, they're not included in the (six team) League for 2024/25:
https://monaghancavanleague.leaguerepublic.com/standingsForDate/933268198/2/-1/-1.html

Their website is no longer active it seems, while their Facebook page gives the impression that it's all boys and girls stuff i.e. no adult team, men or women?
https://www.facebook.com/monaghanutd/?locale=en_GB

Curiously, the Monagan Cavan League also has a Monaghan Town FC participating both this season and last. Founded in 2005, they also seem to be very active in youth football and also play at least some (all?) games at the Gortakeegan complex:
https://www.facebook.com/monaghantownfc/?locale=en_GB
Though MTFC also seem to be linked with Belgium Park in the town?


And it would be nice to see interest in other unrepresented populated provinical areas like Mullingar, Portlaoise, Ennis, NavanMight not there be a reason(s) why those places don't have, or never had, Senior football representation?

And does it make sense to try to conjure up some sort of Senior participation from those places solely on the basis they're under-represented? At least if at the expense of existing ambitious, go-ahead clubs who are already proving their potential in their own area even in the face of competition from existing Senior clubs nearby?

[EatYerGreens]

I mean, it's been glaringly obvious for years with eg the deterioration or demise of the Connacht and Ulster Leagues, versus the growing strength of the Dublin clubs.

Where's the evidence to support the assertion that Dublin non-league clubs have growing strength?

The few occasions that non-league clubs right across the country get to compete against each other suggest otherwise - e.g. Intemediate and Junior Cup results. Glebe North are the current Intermediate Cup winners (based in very north Co. Dublin), and they beat a Cork team in the final. Co Cork has provided more winners of that trophy over the last 5 years than Dublin has btw. Meanwhile the current Junior Cup holders are Cockhill Celtic from Donegal, who beat Wexford club Gorey in the last final. A Dublin team hasn't made the Junior Cup final since Usher in 2019-20. Dublin clubs fared much better in these competitions a decade or so ago.

So where is the evidence of growing strength from Dublin non-league clubs?

[EatYerGreens]

Might not there be a reason(s) why those places don't have, or never had, Senior football representation?

Such as?