20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[legendz]

So it's a balancing act but I'd recommend looking after what we can control (ie. getting at least one team at every age group nationally as a standard), grow the fan base in the communities and hope this puts more pressure on gov for better funding.
Marc Canham was saying for player development, there are three types of models:

1. A small country - really small - where the association runs that player development. You have a national academy where all the best players come and train every day.

2. A bigger country like Germany, Spain or England. They have a really developed professional game and professional clubs, where their players train and they come to the international programme 40-50 days a year. Clubs take a lead on professional development.

3. Is where the FAI are at the moment – requiring a hybrid between them and the clubs.

Over time, he is saying the FAI want clubs to take more responsibility for that development but at the moment they need to work together.

[EatYerGreens]

Says the poster who iirc didn't even seem to appreciate that The Brandywell is actually owned by D&S Council, rather than DCFC, until it was pointed out to him!

Utter bullsh!t - even by your impressive standards of acting the clown on here. Sure just a couple of days ago you were embarassing yourself with your latest episode of Nordsplaining - lecturing a UCD fan about UCD, fer feck sake! Staggering how someone can be both so habitually wrong and yet so arrogantly self-assured whilst doing it :o

So go find the post where the above allegedly happened. Because everthing posted should still be right here on on this site. And when you can't, I'll be here waiting on your apology thanks.

[EalingGreen]

Utter bullsh!t - even by your impressive standards of acting the clown on here. Sure just a couple of days ago you were embarassing yourself with your latest episode of Nordsplaining - lecturing a UCD fan about UCD, fer feck sake! Staggering how someone can be both so habitually wrong and yet so arrogantly self-assured whilst doing it :o

So go find the post where the above allegedly happened. Because everthing posted should still be right here on on this site. And when you can't, I'll be here waiting on your apology thanks.I've just tried the search engine and unless I'm misusing it, I can't find it (you yourself have nearly 3k posts and the New Stadium thread - if it was in that one - has nealry 10k).

But I do recall that it was to do with funding going to DCFC for the Brandywell, with (I think) another poster having to point out that it's actually Council-owned.

And whether you accept that or not I don't care - but why would I make up a point like that?

[As for UCD/Stu, I merely suggested (not "lectured") that with theirs being a very different model from the usual one, they could struggle to survive as a professional, Senior club without the University's support. And when he declared that they could, I gladly accepted that]

[EatYerGreens]

I've just tried the search engine and unless I'm misusing it, I can't find it (you yourself have nearly 3k posts and the New Stadium thread - if it was in that one - has nealry 10k).

Translation = you can't find it. Because it doesn't exist.


But I do recall that it was to do with funding going to DCFC for the Brandywell, with (I think) another poster having to point out that it's actually Council-owned.

And whether you accept that or not I don't care - but why would I make up a point like that?

Because making stuff up is what you do on here in an attempt to excavate yourself out of self-dug holes. Just like you're doing again here. I know full well who owns the Brandywell. Just like I know who owns the RSC, the Sligo Showgrounds, Tallaght Stadium, Glenmalure Park (RIP) etc etc. I've been following the LOI since the late 1970s, so understand it extremely well, thank you.


[As for UCD/Stu, I merely suggested (not "lectured") that with theirs being a very different model from the usual one, they could struggle to survive as a professional, Senior club without the University's support. And when he declared that they could, I gladly accepted that]

As the old phrase in politics goes "If you're explaining, you're losing". You were just doing there what you always do. Which is dictating 'facts' to people who clearly know more about something than you do.

[Nesta99]

I recently also talked on here fairly knowledgeably about Roscommon and the LOI too. And about Tipperary. I read everything I can about the LOI, across all clubs, so have a pretty good grasp on what's going on right around the country. The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

As for support I've an uncle who was a Leitrim-based Sligo fan who used to take me to games with him sometimes. So i've a soft spot for the Bit O' Red. My family background is also Tipperary, and there hasn't been a club there since 1982. So I don't really support anyone in particular. I'm just interested in Irish football and have been for years.

Not that I need to explain myself to you anyway :rolleyes: So feck away off with your your nonesense.

Well as the old phrase in politics goes "If you're explaining, you're losing".

[Shinkicker]

I recently also talked on here fairly knowledgeably about Roscommon and the LOI too. And about Tipperary. I read everything I can about the LOI, across all clubs, so have a pretty good grasp on what's going on right around the country. The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

As for support I've an uncle who was a Leitrim-based Sligo fan who used to take me to games with him sometimes. So i've a soft spot for the Bit O' Red. My family background is also Tipperary, and there hasn't been a club there since 1982. So I don't really support anyone in particular. I'm just interested in Irish football and have been for years.

Not that I need to explain myself to you anyway :rolleyes: So feck away off with your your nonesense.

Talk about blowing your own trumpet !!

[culloty82]

Home Farm have applied, working with DCU as part of their package.

[Nesta99]

Do Bohs and DCU not have a link up or is that just use of DCU facilities? If I were Bohs looking for exclusive access to scholarship programmes would be a priority. Use of S+C expertise and labs is different as it could be commercialised by DCU but integration of club/university teams and club providing top coaching is the give back i'd have expected so 2 clubs in the mix would be fun to watch.

[bohsmug]

DCU seem a bit polyamorous when it comes to Irish football. Or maybe they only like one at a time, move on quickly and occasionally get back with an ex.
Bohs > Shels > Bohs > Home Farm?

[Nesta99]

I missed the Shels part....now that would be really fun to watch if there was a Bohs v Shels courting DCU on a long term gig!

[2 Year Contract]

Bohs signed an 18 year lease for the use of DCU as their training ground so they’re there until 2039 anyways, regardless of anything happening with Home Farm

[EatYerGreens]

Well as the old phrase in politics goes "If you're explaining, you're losing".

Well you seem to do a good job at never explaining whilst always losing :p

[EatYerGreens]

Talk about blowing your own trumpet !!

Sometimes a loud trumpeting in the ear is all that the hard-of-understanding can hear :)

[EatYerGreens]

Home Farm have applied, working with DCU as part of their package.

News piece on it all here: Home Farm eyes League of Ireland return with DCU partnership in bold new bid | The Irish Sun (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/14827602/home-farm-league-of-ireland-dcu-partnership/)

[EatYerGreens]

DCU seem a bit polyamorous when it comes to Irish football. Or maybe they only like one at a time, move on quickly and occasionally get back with an ex.
Bohs > Shels > Bohs > Home Farm?

Bohs were polyamorous about who they sold Dalymount to, so the Northside does seem to be a bit of a free-for-all swingers paradise ;)

"Been spen-ding most our lives, livin' in a swing-ers par-a-dise"

[legendz]

Surprised that CK United aren't confirmed yet.

https://x.com/BlogIrish/status/1897388975788093700?t=jbSPPe4VayUX02y1UGsWug&s=19

Third Tier Teams Applicants??

Arklow Town
Ballymun
Cockhill Celtic "IFB" +1 More Donegal club?
CK United
DCU "IFB"
Home Farm "IFB"
Klub Kildare "IFB"
Limerick FC
Lucan United
Mayo FC "IFB"
Monaghan United
Montpelier FC "IFB"
Peak Villa FC "IFB"
Rock Celtic
Rockmount,
Salthill Devon,
St Francis "IFB"
St Patrick’s CYFC "IFB"
Shamrock Rovers B "IFB"
Villa FC "IFB"

Those with a "IFB" IFB can either personally verify or they’ve made it clear in the media that they’ve applied.

Rest is officially varying degrees of “speculation”

[nigel-harps1954]

Surprised that CK United aren't confirmed yet.

https://x.com/BlogIrish/status/1897388975788093700?t=jbSPPe4VayUX02y1UGsWug&s=19

Third Tier Teams Applicants??

Arklow Town
Ballymun
Cockhill Celtic ? +1 More Donegal club?
CK United
DCU ?
Home Farm ?
Klub Kildare ?
Limerick FC
Lucan United
Mayo FC?
Monaghan United
Montpelier FC?
Peak Villa FC?
Rock Celtic
Rockmount,
Salthill Devon,
St Francis?
St Patrick’s CYFC?
Shamrock Rovers B?
Villa FC?

Those with a ? IFB can either personally verify or they’ve made it clear in the media that they’ve applied.

Rest is officially varying degrees of “speculation”

Two more Donegal clubs. Letterkenny Rovers and Bonagee United have both expressed interest.

[EatYerGreens]

Would it be easier to start keeping a list of clubs that didn't apply?

[legendz]

CK United are supposed to have confirmed that they have applied as well. Mayo FC, CK United and Klub Kildare should be certainties with academy sides already in place.

Current confirmed interest by IFB:
Cockhill Celtic
CK United
DCU
Home Farm

Klub Kildare
Mayo FC
Montpelier FC
Peak Villa FC

St Francis
St Patrick’s CYFC
Shamrock Rovers B
Villa FC

[kksaints]

Ballymun United issued a statement on Twitter/X declaring interest also today.

[kksaints]

CK United confirm interest in the 3rd tier, interestingly they also confirm in the article below that they applied for a Senior Women's team this season but Waterford got the spot instead which makes sense when you note that CK United don't have a stadium.

https://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/sport/soccer/ck-utd-confirm-application-for-third-tier_arid-50553.html

[Martinho II]

Bohs signed an 18 year lease for the use of DCU as their training ground so they’re there until 2039 anyways, regardless of anything happening with Home Farm

Some facility at DCU !I was at Helix last Saturday for night with Henrik Larsson. Where on campus is Bohs training ground?

[Martinho II]

Never heard of Montpelier FC where are they based?

[Nesta99]

Not sure about the Irish football club but I really hope their nickname is the Hell Fire Club!

[Elfman]

Haha unfortunately they don't seem to make any reference to Montpelier Hill on their Twitter!

They seem to have only been established in 2015 and play out of Grangegorman. They won the LSL Senior 1B (4th division) last year I believe. A potential derby with this new Home Farm/DCU entity perhaps?

[cláirseach]

Haha unfortunately they don't seem to make any reference to Montpelier Hill on their Twitter!

They seem to have only been established in 2015 and play out of Grangegorman. They won the LSL Senior 1B (4th division) last year I believe. A potential derby with this new Home Farm/DCU entity perhaps?

Think there might have been a few versions over the years then as they were definitely fielding teams in the 90s. 2015 would make some sense thoughm with the gap left by O'Devaney. The Montpelier area in question is between Arbour Hill and Infirmary Rd, near the special criminal court, behind Parkgate Street.

[legendz]

Current confirmed interest by IFB:
Cockhill Celtic
CK United
DCU/Home Farm

Klub Kildare
Mayo FC
Peak Villa FC

St Francis
St Patrick’s CYFC
Shamrock Rovers B
Villa FC

Ballymun Utd
Limerick FC
Monaghan United

TUS Midlands (Athlone IT)
UCC
SETU Carlow (IT Carlow)

Bonagee United
Letterkenny Rovers
St Michaels AFC
Buncrana Hearts

[nigel-harps1954]

Buncrana Hearts the fourth club from Donegal to have confirmed their interest.

[joey B]

Buncrana Hearts the fourth club from Donegal to have confirmed their interest.

2 Buncrana teams would probably be kind of silly…..

[nigel-harps1954]

2 Buncrana teams would probably be kind of silly…..

Can't see all of them getting in, but no harm in teams looking for a bit more information at least.

[EatYerGreens]

2 Buncrana teams would probably be kind of silly…..

In fairness, no less silly than a 10-team Northern division including 4 Donegal teams all located within about 40kms of each other would be. May as well make it a Donegal League so.

[Elfman]

Think there might have been a few versions over the years then as they were definitely fielding teams in the 90s. 2015 would make some sense thoughm with the gap left by O'Devaney. The Montpelier area in question is between Arbour Hill and Infirmary Rd, near the special criminal court, behind Parkgate Street.
Great info, thanks for the insight cláirseach. I know the area but never made the connection. Makes much more sense now!

According to Irish Football Blog, it looks like they've now confirmed they haven't expressed interest.

Edit: tried to edit my post, seems like it was deleted instead.

[Buckett]

What is the Irish Football Blog? Are they reliable?

[legendz]

It'll be interesting to see how the tiered academy structures takes off, whenever it does. Potentially up to 8 or 9 based on population size could/should target the top tier academy status. Possibly all LoI clubs should be looking to attain an agreeable medium tier academy. A basic academy might just be a case of having academy teams?
Any National League clubs should possibly be looking at having academy teams. Where those academy teams would fit in the national picture would have to be worked out. Should academies teams operate within leagues that reflect the academy grading e.g. top tier grade academies and possibly mid tier grade academies in one league, and all the basic academies within a separate academy league?


Buncrana Hearts the fourth club from Donegal to have confirmed their interest.

So there is potentially more interest in Donegal in supporting 4 or 5 clubs than one overall club where professional football might be attainable?

If that is the case it is a reflection of how different regions can be eh.. different! Seems Kerry and Mayo can get behind one club but again there is no one size that fits all and that's perfectly fine. Carlow and Kilkenny seem to think a joint approach suits them, and that's perfectly fine also.

[2 Year Contract]

What is the Irish Football Blog? Are they reliable?
Think their credibility took several hits in the off season after coming out with outright 100% incorrect transfer rumours which were deleted after they were swiftly proved wrong

[Shearer]

Think their credibility took several hits in the off season after coming out with outright 100% incorrect transfer rumours which were deleted after they were swiftly proved wrong
The best one ever was a year ago when they linked Sam Warde to Treaty.

Sam may be from Limerick, but he was residing in Australia at the time.

[culloty82]

Mayo officially confirmed:

https://www.westernpeople.ie/sport/mayo-fc-express-interest-in-joining-league-of-ireland-third-tier_arid-50569.html

[Elfman]

So there is potentially more interest in Donegal in supporting 4 or 5 clubs than one overall club where professional football might be attainable?

If that is the case it is a reflection of how different regions can be eh.. different! Seems Kerry and Mayo can get behind one club but again there is no one size that fits all and that's perfectly fine. Carlow and Kilkenny seem to think a joint approach suits them, and that's perfectly fine also.
This is an interesting point and one that could probably branch off into a separate thread. I reckon you need the population to sustain a professional team at a national level but also the interest, which is generated in the main by the club's success both on and off the field.

I've seen it discussed elsewhere that the county team model is used to overcome parochial issues so everyone gets behind one team but I never thought this was a good solution as the team has to have a training pitch and playing pitch based somewhere so you can, at most, only cover two areas.

We've yet to see if Kerry, Mayo and CK United will go the same way as Kildare County, Kilkenny and Dublin City (and I really hope they don't) but should they establish themselves I think the difference will be that they came through the underage leagues. We're talking parents driving kids to training since they were 12, watching older cousins playing in the U19s, the cousins reffing the U14s, aunts and uncles organising club events, building the attachment, etc. That's why people stick with clubs when on-field success is not forthcoming and what separates a club from a team imho.

[Elfman]

What is the Irish Football Blog? Are they reliable?
Probably about as reliable as anyone on Twitter these days but just wanted to point out that he had retracted his claim that Montpelier FC had applied.

I hadn't heard any rumours about them before his post and was quite surprised as they wouldn't be a traditional heavyweight.

[Nesta99]

It'll be interesting to see how the tiered academy structures takes off, whenever it does. Potentially up to 8 or 9 based on population size could/should target the top tier academy status. Possibly all LoI clubs should be looking to attain an agreeable medium tier academy. A basic academy might just be a case of having academy teams?
Any National League clubs should possibly be looking at having academy teams. Where those academy teams would fit in the national picture would have to be worked out. Should academies teams operate within leagues that reflect the academy grading e.g. top tier grade academies and possibly mid tier grade academies in one league, and all the basic academies within a separate academy league?



So there is potentially more interest in Donegal in supporting 4 or 5 clubs than one overall club where professional football might be attainable?

If that is the case it is a reflection of how different regions can be eh.. different! Seems Kerry and Mayo can get behind one club but again there is no one size that fits all and that's perfectly fine. Carlow and Kilkenny seem to think a joint approach suits them, and that's perfectly fine also.

How is the non-league situation in Kerry? Is there a significant number of clubs and more importantly a real local rivalry betweeen them? If it is pretty amicable between clubs then its possible that they could support a club under one umbrella like Kerry FC. But couties like Meath, Louth even, Im sure plenty others and Id say Donegal is amongst these have a ...lively non-league scene. Rivalries can have more animosity than between senior clubs. This would be a major obstacle to a county model which is ok occasionally but both too GAA for me and has as many fails as successes when a new entity tries to appeal to too many. Wexford worked based on its original purpose which was to provide a pathway for Wexford youth players. Kildare failed because they were rebranded Newbridge. Kerry looks a success so far but Galway 'United' fell apart when more than one club tried to combine for senior ball. You are correct that its horses for courses but if ye see reports in local papers of fighting, lots of red cards, games abandoned (due to risk to ref or cause of ref decisions) then you can bet that clubs dont get on and there wont be thinking that there are too many clubs applying from the one region - they wont care as long as they are keeping up with the neighbours and will never come together for the greater good!

[Buckett]

Again, Galway Utd's demise was nothing to do with Mervue and Salthill.

[legendz]

How is the non-league situation in Kerry? Is there a significant number of clubs and more importantly a real local rivalry betweeen them? If it is pretty amicable between clubs then its possible that they could support a club under one umbrella like Kerry FC. But couties like Meath, Louth even, Im sure plenty others and Id say Donegal is amongst these have a ...lively non-league scene. Rivalries can have more animosity than between senior clubs. This would be a major obstacle to a county model which is ok occasionally but both too GAA for me and has as many fails as successes when a new entity tries to appeal to too many. Wexford worked based on its original purpose which was to provide a pathway for Wexford youth players. Kildare failed because they were rebranded Newbridge. Kerry looks a success so far but Galway 'United' fell apart when more than one club tried to combine for senior ball. You are correct that its horses for courses but if ye see reports in local papers of fighting, lots of red cards, games abandoned (due to risk to ref or cause of ref decisions) then you can bet that clubs dont get on and there wont be thinking that there are too many clubs applying from the one region - they wont care as long as they are keeping up with the neighbours and will never come together for the greater good!
Leaving "county model" aside, the Kerry District League competed in the Eircom U21 League many many years ago. The Kerry League then competed in the League Cup for many years, knocking out Waterford United in 2008! I think it was 2016 then that Kerry League joined the Academy Leagues which eventually resulted in the formation of Kerry FC in late 2022.
Between all this and the Oscar Traynor Cup, Kerry League has had a good history of representative football. The formation of Kerry FC was a natural step.
I think Mayo League are similar enough though they have not been as prominent as Kerry League. The formation of Mayo FC has been a similar natural step for them.
I don't think any other district leagues have that history of representative football of joining the league cup when the opportunity was there and then the academy leagues.
If Donegal and Meath have struggled to come together for representative football, the foundations are not there really for the formation of one club for those regions.

On whether any Kerry District League club have aspirations to join the National League, I honestly don't know. After Killarney Celtic took on both Kerry FC and Cobh Ramblers in preseason I was asking the question might they be tempted. Haven't heard anything to suggest they are.

LoI clubs are understandably casting a wide net to bring the best players within budget and means. It does open the door however for a local rival club who might want to offer the best local talent an opportunity to play at the highest level. Is there any LoI club based solely on the best local talent?

[Nesta99]

I would say Wexford held to local talent for longest. Over the years Dundalk tried it but ultimately it rarely worked out. There are sides that did have good local representation like the 2002 cup winners (that were also relegated). There are/were no shortage of people and clubs that believed that they were better than LoI sides when the stats show otherwise. Perception is powerful though but thankfully people now tend more to see the obvious. There were undoubtedly players locally that wre good enough for Dundalk and eve byond but their effort didnt meet talent so never met potential. I could name 4 or 5 definites in Dundalk alone (over my years).

[culloty82]

One critique that can be made is that while a number of players who didn't make the breakthrough at Kerry (Matt Keane, Cian Cooney, Victor Udeze, Steven O'Mahoney) are playing with clubs in the KDL, conversely there has been no real movement in the other direction, even though on paper players within the league might have merited trials in the close/preseason (Luke Doolan of Killarney Athletic being the most promising prospect at present, though the Lowth brothers at Dynamos, and the evergreen Paudie Quinn of Listowel Celtic are all capable.)

[Nesta99]

Again, Galway Utd's demise was nothing to do with Mervue and Salthill.

Details details, Galway FA was difficult, GUST tried to go alone and then took some convincing to do the United thing but it wasnt an easy relationship and shows that it is hard to have multiple reluctant football organisations involved in one artificially formed club. I doubt that there wasnt some Salhill v Devon issues. If Comer money hadnt arisen would Galway FC still be tipping along happily?

[Buckett]

All of that happened afterwards. The damage and debt was built up during a period before all that overseen by a certain rogue trader.
There is certainly room in Galway for a National League team or two.

[Nesta99]

I doubt there is a LoI fan that missed the irony of GUFCs original woes under Leeson after the DVD and independent committee's decision. After that GUST tried to put in a side but didnt get a licence but kept the lights on with an U19 side still existing. The FAI pushed Salthill, Mervue, GFA and GUST to unite as Galway FC and it was an uneasy alliance, GUST werent at all enthralled at the prospect and I would say that was becase of having to work with the self important Galway FA who as you know own ED Park. Wasnt there an issue with the bar and the GFA not allowing GUST to use it or demanding removal of furniture or something? Sooooo in relation to the point above it was not easy to get up and running Galway FC with different clubs and organisations involved, AFTER Galway United under Leeson got in to financial difficulty and ceased trading. As soon as the Comers were willing to get involved the alliance was quick to disolve but did at least rename as Galway United again and are in a good shout of getting in to Europe subsequently this season. Galway FC is an example of where individual (ie GFA) suits would get in the way of formig a club trying to appeal to a wider group rather than focusing on the existing fanbase of GUFC. Im sure there were issues between the 2 clubs involved. Maybe they were relieved at getting out of senior football directly as the financial challanges bit?! Whatever about non-league but 3 senior sides was too many for Galway City. If they all end up in senior football on merit then so be it, it wont be a case of keeping up with the jones's as it was when Salthill and Mervue both wanted in to LoI potentially to compete with GUFC. It all demonstrates fractious relationshipS at the time and not a togetherness to do a Kerry FC.

[legendz]

Kerry District League and Mayo District League have been unique in being able to come together for representative football outside of the Oscar Traynor Cup, despite local rivalries. Tralee Dynamos and Castlebar Celtic didn't gain too much traction in the A Championship. It will be difficult for other regions to establish a club similar to the journey Kerry League and Mayo League took, without that strong ethos of representative football down through the years.

[nr637]

Even if 4 clubs have expressed interest in the new third tier from the Donegal area, I doubt the FAI will allow another Galwaygate scenario to happen! :confused:

When you consider there is no Ulster Senior League or a Connaught Senior League for some of these clubs to consider over the years, I suppose this new proposal looks like a great opportunity for some progressive clubs!

[Roones26]

How many times do people here in the know have to explain that while 3 galway clubs was not ideal, it was not the reason Galway collapsed before it stops being repeated as fact