20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[2 Year Contract]

Ck United arent fron either Carlow town or Kilkenny either. The towns arent even close.


On a similar trend, Lucan United's senior side don’t play in Lucan either. They play on the outskirts of Celbridge, a 30 minute walk from Celbridge town itself

[legendz]

Again, not saying you are wrong... Just football is dynamic, and clubs do adapt. If this national league stays rather static, well fine, but if it joins together and becomes a regular LOI division, its not beyond belief that Kerry and Kilarney play against each other in the league eventually, bluring the lines of who is the elite one, and another identity might be needed (event a threat of this scenario might be enough)

Sure, similar to Kerry, look at in Louth, there is one elite team that does win league and pushes standards in Europe, and one part time/ amateur that most of the time just makes up the numbers in LOI, but every so often (and only a very very few times) they swap places. It does happen. (Joking).
Kerry has built up through the academy leagues since 2016. There's no blurring of those lines in Kerry.
Not saying you are wrong either. Killarney could pick up local players with a point to prove and cause problems in an MSC clash at least. Kerry will have to handle communication of being a club for the region while recognising the freedom of clubs to plot their own course. Could be tricky if there is a spiky encounter.
Professionalism seems more attainable for Kerry than Killarney. Again, if the pathway from district leagues to LoI does get integrated - professional and local amateur ambitions should be able to coexist.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

On a similar trend, Lucan United's senior side don’t play in Lucan either. They play on the outskirts of Celbridge, a 30 minute walk from Celbridge town itself

They play most of their games in Westmanstown I thought

[BigEars]

I think what it's showing really is that there's a gap in terms of the USL and the CSL (both defunct) - so in a way it's no surprise there's clubs from those regions looking to find something new for themselves. Though even that invites questions as to the strength of the league - I don't know enough about the teams to really compare them against each other, and finances outside a regional league will likely impact that. But I'd have my doubts as to whether it's comparable in strength to the LSL or MSL, and that in itself may impact which way the league goes in future years.

I wouldn't be too concerned about strength.
Lucan United and St. Francis are strong top division LSL sides straight away and UCC are a top division MSL side (even if not quite as strong as a few years ago).

Then take Newbridge Town, down a few divisions in the LSL, so the immediate thought is they'll be much weaker, but with no Klub Kildare involved at the moment, they'll likely have the choice of any players from there not wanted by Dublin LOI sides.

You'd expect Mayo and CK to be decent with the pick of their underage players coming through, plus local Junior players who want the opportunity to prove themselves in Senior football, and then we've got some very strong Junior clubs in areas that have no Senior football Cockhill Celtic, Salthill Devon, Mervue, Villa & Killarney Celtic (MSL being a Cork only league), Bonagee, Letterkenny. Pretty much all of these would be comfortable at a good level of Intermediate League if they existed for those areas.

No idea how good TUD are but I imagine they'd have a strong pick and rounded out by Home Farm in the 2nd tier of the LSL.

Even in a worst case scenario I imagine we'll get a league at least similar to the top division of the LSL and I envisage most of the talented young players in the underage League of Ireland who don't join League of Ireland clubs would look at playing for clubs involved in this league, rather than LSL or MSL clubs....... well unless significant money was involved to do otherwise.

[Kiki Balboa]

Is it right to say they are expecting the 15 clubs to be expanded on before the season starts by next year? And definitely more for the 1st full season in 2027? 15 is an odd number to have, meaning one division will only 7.

I am also always surprised that St. Kevin Boys is never thrown into the hat in these conversations, considering how they used to be the powerhouse underage and how well known they are. Nearly closer to the main campus in DCU than Home Farm if I remember correctly too. I know some lads hate fantasy games, but St. Kevin Boys playing in Santry's Morton Stadium makes sense to me as a proper potential LOI club, more than Home Farm or St. Francis, but yet total lack of appetite there from anyone.

Also, I did read somewhere as well ATU were trying to enter, playing in Athlone. SETU as well in Carlow. Three Third Level Education linked teams in this National League.

[legendz]

Other details to be revealed are:
• Will the FAI Amateur Cup be for NL clubs only?
• At what round will NL clubs enter the FAI Cup and will they be guaranteed a place, ranking above LSL and MSL?

Looking at clubs who have enjoyed success in the FAI Intermediate and Junior Cups, might the lure of the mooted FAI Amateur Cup and access to the FAI Cup encourage clubs to want to play at a higher level?

All to be revealed in time. Be interesting to see how that dynamic unfolds. The competitive spirit of wanting to compete at a higher level is what will ultimately drive things on.

[Neish]

All for expanding the league but this is only spreading national level football to 3 new counties Mayo, Kildare & Kilkenny (two of which previously had team at nation level and it couldn't be maintained). Still 12 counties (if I'm counting right) with no club at national level(almost half of counties in the country)

So we now have:
8 Dublin Clubs
4 Donegal Clubs
3 each from Cork and Galway
2 each from Louth, Waterford & Kerry

[yurt]

It is disappointing that there wasn't more clubs from unrepresented counties who've put themselves forward. But the fact that there's 15 clubs with the window still open for some more to join them is a hugely positive step when it seemed like progress on the third tier had stalled.

I don't think any comparisons of this competition to the A championship are fair. Anything organised under that *****'s reign can be written off as dog****. I have much more hope that this tier of football has a future, particularly without any B teams.

The fact that each LOI club has an academy means there's 1000s of teenagers taking football really seriously. Having at least an extra 15 clubs playing at a national level will give a lot of these a better foundation to grow their game.

It is vital that these teams become clearly stronger in level and resources than the intermediate leagues. If all of the talent filters to these teams, playing summer football it might give the others something to think about if/when they start to fall behind.

[legendz]

Still 12 counties (if I'm counting right) with no club at national level(almost half of counties in the country)
Seems more a matter of those regions getting their own houses in order. Is it necessary for every county to be represented at national level?
Leitrim and Roscommon seem like regions that will gravitate towards neighbouring national clubs. If Trim see themselves as the club to bring National League football to Meath, building through the youth leagues should be on their radar.
The FAI should possibly work with Clare, Tipperary, Cavan-Monaghan, Meath and Laois-Offaly from a strategic point of view to be part of the youth leagues at least. They'd have to be self sufficient and stand on their own feet.

[BigEars]

All for expanding the league but this is only spreading national level football to 3 new counties Mayo, Kildare & Kilkenny (two of which previously had team at nation level and it couldn't be maintained). Still 12 counties (if I'm counting right) with no club at national level(almost half of counties in the country)

So we now have:
8 Dublin Clubs
4 Donegal Clubs
3 each from Cork and Galway
2 each from Louth, Waterford & Kerry

Well firstly CK was very much formed as a Carlow-Kilkenny venture, and does represent both those counties not just Killenny. Currently they're playing out of Killeshin in Laois, and perhaps the changing of the name from Carlow-Kilkenny to CK was to make it more palatable for people from bordering counties to support them.

There was noise in Clare a few months ago about starting a LOI club, but obviously that takes time and best with them starting at underage. Perhaps it's better that a Junior club in Clare didn't manage to get in so far if that is the case.

Tipperary has some very strong Junior clubs, with good facilities as well, but anything that isn't a Gaa style county model here will struggle to get support across the county, and likely never be viable as a 1st Division (or above) club, so again maybe it's a good thing that the likes of St. Michael's, Peake Villa, Clonmel Town or Nenagh have made it into this league so far.

Cavan-Monaghan to enter but didn't meet the criteria at least so far, but imagine they'll continue efforts and be playing in a 3rd/4th tier in the next few years.

I think people are expecting too much too soon and expecting this to be a panacea for all things wrong with Irish football in one swoop.
It will bridge clubs transitioning into the 1st Division in future and give them somewhere to fall to if things go wrong.
It'll also help us fix our football pyramid from below up and have something to link onto, rather than having to meet the extremely high level of 1st division of LOI for sides potentially coming out of Junior football.

[Kiki Balboa]

Really what you are seeing is proof LOI is the development hub (Top-Down Knowledge sharing / player development) for soccer in the country, instead of soccer developing and growing from the bottom up, ending up in LOI. Things like ETP and inter-league squads and other FAI schemes, while still beneficial, are nowhere near as effective in developing regions as being involved with LOI at any level. Football in Ireland is going to develop differently than other countries, and I dont think we should be scared of building 'down' approach. In a way, unlike nearly all other countries, we are still starting from scratch.

Also, CK United is a stupid name. But Kilkenny used to have a LOI side, and have two of the strongest Junior clubs in the country (Evergreen and Freebooters). Carlow is desperate to have had one with FC Carlow and SETU. Tullamore was in the A Championship and Portlaoise AFC does sometimes have a strong enough Leinster Senior League side. So there is definitely an appetite in the South West Leinster for a LOI team. There is no county identity to tie it all together, so it is interesting to see how it develops there.

Football in Monaghan has gone way backwards in my opinion. Monaghan Town were beating Monaghan United for a while too. Both pulled out of the Cavan League and are now in the NEFL, playing in division 3 (Carrick Rovers are in the Premier). I would say interest and club development in Meath is surpassing Monaghan right now.

Most surprising to me was there being no re-iteration of 'Sporting Fingal' (ie. team somewhere in Fingal). Glebe North, Malahide United and Swords Celtic are all huge clubs, I would have thought one of them would have been big enough to enter.

[ger121]

Shame no Wicklow or Wexford side made the cut. Thought a club like Gorey Rangers might be included.

[legendz]

Tipperary has some very strong Junior clubs, with good facilities as well, but anything that isn't a Gaa style county model here will struggle to get support across the county, and likely never be viable as a 1st Division (or above) club, so again maybe it's a good thing that the likes of St. Michael's, Peake Villa, Clonmel Town or Nenagh have made it into this league so far. Too soon to talk about the next tier but getting 20 or so for active promotion and relegation should be a high enough priority. 15 clubs announced have got a jump on everyone else. Clare, Limerick and Tipperary clubs mentioned looking at Killarney and Villa FC might want to give a fourth tier serious consideration, if the FAI invite expressions of interest for that as the next phase.
The top 5 in First Division qualify for playoffs as a "lifeline". National League of 8 to 10 in each regional division with winners only going to a playoff is very narrow. A conundrum for FAI to solve.
Can Division winners be exactly that, division winners. The end of year playoff to crown National League champions being something like a 6 team playoff, with division winners direct to semi finals. Just musing. One for the FAI and NL clubs to tease out. FD clubs have got the playoffs they want.

[culloty82]

Shame no Wicklow or Wexford side made the cut. Thought a club like Gorey Rangers might be included.

Or North End FC, who seem to doing well in Junior Cups of late. Still not beyond the bounds of possiblity that Newmarket or one of the Tipp clubs could be one of the five late entrants, depending on where you place the Dublin clubs, you've seven Northern, and four Southern teams otherwise.

[Roones26]

For a lot of these clubs mentioned from a sporting perspective, I'd wonder in the short term what the upside is? If you're ambitious, there is a future as a competitive First Division Club, but based on the FAI Cup ( is Maynooth in 2021 the last non-league win ? A Covid year on top of everything else), I would think even for a reasonably competitive intermediate club thats a medium term asperation.

So, perhaps the barrier ultimately for many of the bigger intermediate clubs listed here, if they did in fact opt out, is that they are too far away, sporting-wise?

[Buckett]

Just on the topic of people worrying about having three teams in Galway again. Firstly, Mervue Utd and Salthill Devon being in the A Championship had nothing to do with Galways exit from the League in 2012 and 2013, the club was a basket case run by a convicted fraud and would have collapsed regardless of the other two clubs.

I think Mervue will thrive in this. They represent a big area, Wellpark, Mervue, Ballybane and Castlepark which would have a population similar to Cobh or Longford Town. They will get a few hundred into their games easily.

Salthill Devon are quite a wealthy club but their ground is very isolated. They couldn't get anybody to go and watch their games even while they were using Terryland.

Comparisons with the A Championship are a bit unfair I think because there'll be no B teams. I'm a big critic of the FAI but this could potentially be the most positive thing to happen Irish football in the 30 years or so that I've been following the LOI.

My hope is that this is a success, obviously, and that LSL and MSL clubs recognise that it's a success and that that will lead to an expansion or an integration to a proper pyramid structure within the next 10 years.

[legendz]

For a lot of these clubs mentioned from a sporting perspective, I'd wonder in the short term what the upside is? If you're ambitious, there is a future as a competitive First Division Club, but based on the FAI Cup ( is Maynooth in 2021 the last non-league win ? Are any of the 15 NL clubs LoI contenders? The NL is a natural step for Mayo and CK to field a senior side for players progressing through their academy sides.
Bonagee United (Donegal), Cockhill Celtic (Donegal), Killarney Celtic (Kerry), Letterkenny Rovers (Donegal), Mervue United (Galway), Salthill Devon (Galway) and Villa FC (Waterford) obviously have ambitions to compete at a higher level than where they are currently. The upside should be gaining a jump ahead of clubs who'll join lower tiers if FAI are fully committed to the Football Pathways Plan.
The sound bites seem to indicate the NL will be low cost without the costs of LoI football licencing. Some clubs might be content to be at the top tier of amateur level. A club can win the NL. If they haven't a First Division licence, they are where they are and where they are they will remain by their own choices.

[Zico]

It might be low cost to begin with but to drive standards ultimately some minimum level of licensing needs to be included and also a level that gradually closes the gap with first division licensing standards where teams not getting promoted due to licensing becomes the exception. It still won’t be cheap to run given the travel required, and will definitely need to avoid the embarrassment of meaningless end of season fixtures not getting fulfilled etc.

If we are to look at the top 20 non league sides (subjective I know) currently you would probably say maybe 5 or 6 have come on board in the initial 15. The only way to entice the best is financial and structural benefits for further improvement. Given premier division clubs circa €300k - €400k a year in prize money is becoming pointless in this age with clubs pocketing nearly €15m a year in European prize money and solidarity payments. Surely that is the reward for premier clubs and more incentives flow down to 1st division and national league to incentivize what inevitably will improve overall standards. €400k would go a lot further in those 2 divisions and help with overall sustainability.

[Roones26]

It might be low cost to begin with but to drive standards ultimately some minimum level of licensing needs to be included and also a level that gradually closes the gap with first division licensing standards where teams not getting promoted due to licensing becomes the exception. It still won’t be cheap to run given the travel required, and will definitely need to avoid the embarrassment of meaningless end of season fixtures not getting fulfilled etc.

If we are to look at the top 20 non league sides (subjective I know) currently you would probably say maybe 5 or 6 have come on board in the initial 15. The only way to entice the best is financial and structural benefits for further improvement. Given premier division clubs circa €300k - €400k a year in prize money is becoming pointless in this age with clubs pocketing nearly €15m a year in European prize money and solidarity payments. Surely that is the reward for premier clubs and more incentives flow down to 1st division and national league to incentivize what inevitably will improve overall standards. €400k would go a lot further in those 2 divisions and help with overall sustainability.

I think this is ultimately it. I don’t think any of the sides here are going into this with the idea that they would decline promotion to the First Division if so what’s the point really ? The big open question for me is how do you close the gap between amateur and a semiprofessional

[culloty82]

Interesting that Kerry were quick to send out their congrats to Killarney Celtic today, so evidently they feel that if players thrive in the new division, then they can offer them First Division football in the two seasons before promotion becomes a factor, and/or it gives them an outlet for players who have outgrown the Academy system, but are on the fringes of the senior squad.

[Martinho II]

Is Villa FC are they a Waterford City based side? Also when I looked up Klub Kildares site I was under the impression they are based in Naas?

[culloty82]

Yes, and they've won the Junior Cup in recent seasons, so we'll learn how steep the difference to intermediate soccer is.

[trevy]

Villa are totally dominant in Waterford for the last few years so I'd say the rest of the clubs will be glad to have a chance to win local trophies again. Their ground is close to city centre in Poleberry area.

[legendz]

Kerry will have to toe something of a diplomatic parenting line if a local club becomes a noisy neighbour or problem child. The child can throw tantrums but the parent will have to be understanding.
FAI are hailing that the "historic" new third tier of Irish football will be the top tier of grassroots football. To be truly that, they'll have to deliver on the Pathways Plan to link district leagues all the way up to National League. Should be the priority. Closing the gap between amateur and semiprofessional can follow after the amateur tiers are integrated.

[Dermobohs]

Question, will clubs like Lucan Utd with ties to a Loi side have to sever those ties and go back to being a stand alone club?

[Martinho II]

Question, will clubs like Lucan Utd with ties to a Loi side have to sever those ties and go back to being a stand alone club?

Why what club have ties to Lucan Utd?

[Roones26]

What do those ties mean formally though? Some of these LOI clubs have links with half of Dublin but what does that acutally practically mean ?

[Dermobohs]

Why what club have ties to Lucan Utd?
Linked to rovers, coaching , advice, pathway for young players etc., they also play a friendly with rovers first team every season, just wondered if they or indeed any other clubs would have to sever ties.

[WeAreRovers]

What do those ties mean formally though? Some of these LOI clubs have links with half of Dublin but what does that acutally practically mean ?

Lucan United are one of four main partner clubs. Hopefully they can provide a pathway for our lads not yet playing ‘men’s’ football.

https://www.shamrockrovers.ie/rovers-in-clubs/?

[legendz]

Lucan United are one of four main partner clubs. Hopefully they can provide a pathway for our lads not yet playing ‘men’s’ football.

https://www.shamrockrovers.ie/rovers-in-clubs/?

No need for Shamrock Rovers II so? Lucan taking up the role.
Villa FC are only a stone's throw away from the RSC in Waterford. The perfect location for Waterford II.