20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[nr637]

What would UCD be exploring?

We're in the second tier and Rovers are (apparently) the only side to enter a B team. What's left?

Fair enough, it may have been Dublin University so, that I read somewhere were showing interest according to some social media sources.

[pineapple stu]

From my perspective I feel as if you have a negative view for the basis of this input.
He doesn't. He does have a negative view for pure speculation such as "There are also several Universities, such as UCD [...] showing interest". Doubly so when the complete and utter refutation of this is ignored. It's not helpful.

[nr637]

He doesn't. He does have a negative view for pure speculation such as "There are also several Universities, such as UCD [...] showing interest". Doubly so when the complete and utter refutation of this is ignored. It's not helpful.

I am not ignoring that a lot of my post is based on speculation, but it seems to be a bit unfair of you now to be critical. It is just a conversation on where the interest in the new third tier National League could come from!

[pineapple stu]

it seems to be a bit unfair of you now to be critical.
Not really? Criticism is fundamental to conversation and learning I'd have thought.

Otherwise everyone just accepts things at face value, and that's no good to anyone.

[Shearer]

Drogheda Town have made informal enquiries about use of the Lourdes Stadium read in to that what you will, there is enough emnity still with some with their local senior club to spite and think they could do better - bad timing though. There is still a surprise with some more ambitious higher education soccer people, though it could well be a way to annoy the GAA dominated sports department, or kite flying on the development of a scholarship programme within existing academic programmes. Ardee cant get on the same hymn sheet, dont want to miss out dont want to over commit -i dont see any harm in any names submitted and can then pull or stick in due course.
Only photo I can see of Lourdes Stadium is a pitch, track and nothing else? I assume there's a stand.

[EalingGreen]

How many full time professional clubs are realistically attainable?In the short-, even medium-term, not many more than at present (one or two extra, maybe?).

But over the long term, and esp if we can improve and enlarge stadia, then I think there is opportunity to get to maybe 7 or 8, with the rest still operating on a p-t basis, but on a bigger scale than at present.

While on the subject of stadia, it looks like the long-promised £36m Government funding for football stadia in NI will be released soon, which depending on how it's allocated, could help a handful of clubs in a big way, or, a lot of clubs more modestly.

Plus there is quite a bit of outside investment (relatively speaking) coming into certain clubs (Coleraine, Carrick, possibly Cliftonville etc), though I fear this could lead to a new "arms race" in players' wages and transfer fees etc, thereby encouraging clubs to over-reach themselves, rather than develop progressively over the long-term.


You're clearly supportive of the pyramid structure. While there are advantages, can it hinder there being more full time professional clubs with a bigger support base?I really don't see how, on the basis that "A rising tide floats all boats".

While I genunely believe that the absence of a pyramid at best maintains a cartel of the same old clubs, at worst leads to stagnation. I mean, the big four Dublin clubs are undoubtedly bigger/better than their Belfast equivalents, but that should hardly surprise considering the respective populations and economies etc. However, below our four Prem teams, the Championship also has Dundela and H&W Welders, who are managing ok in East Belfast even in the shadow of Glentoran - Welders' stadium is excellent btw. (Belfast also has Newington, though they look like they could be relegated to the third tier after this season.)

And more generally, even if more than half of LOI clubs are f-t, it seems to me to be very disappointing/unrealised that ROI still only supports 17* Senior clubs, versus NI's 24 (outwith Derry City).

Furthermore, in that there are few large towns or regions without Senior representation, I'd say the IL has a wider geographical spread of senior clubs than the LOI. Of course, this new NL is an attempt to address this issue, but I really don't see how suddenly elevating a number of (essentially) self-selected clubs to a level which is still miles short of even the FD (facilities, crowds, finances etc), can remedy that. Instead the solution must surely be to develop from the bottom-up organically, and from the centre outwards, even though that could take years to take root properly.

P.S. I feel compelled to add, before s.o. jumps in, that I certainly don't discount the other advantages the LOI has over the IL (eg 35k at the Aviva, or Shams thumping Larne in Europe etc). But as someone who has a nerdy, even sad, interest in this sort of thing, and especially since the IL is also going through its latest revamp of the pyramid just now, it's good to look outwards as well as inwards, so as to see how others do things. And you did ask! :wink:

* - i.e. excludes DCFC, UCD and Kerry, who cannot yet said to be firmly established, even if it's looking ever more promising.

[EalingGreen]

Only photo I can see of Lourdes Stadium is a pitch, track and nothing else? I assume there's a stand.If Google Earth is anything to go by (I told you I was nerdy! :cool:), it doesn't appear to have any spectator facilities, or even a fence round it (athletics track doesn't allow). No car parking either, though there looks to be a massive hospital car park next door. Meanwhile, the facility is completely hemmed in by housing and other development, so no room for expansion - stands, terraces etc.

It's appears basically just to be a playing area inside an 8 lane athlettics track. Oh, and there's also a bowling green it seems. And a GAA club across the way.

[pineapple stu]

* - i.e. excludes DCFC, UCD and Kerry, who cannot yet said to be firmly established, even if it's looking ever more promising.
Eh, what?

[legendz]

While I genunely believe that the absence of a pyramid at best maintains a cartel of the same old clubs, at worst leads to stagnation.

Some form of pyramid is needed. An Amateur pathway and an Elite pathway can coexist. Going from Amateur to Elite pathway should require more licencing criteria etc.. It just seems otherwise that potential support bases for full time professional clubs is being divided.

[EalingGreen]

Eh, what?I was talking about ROI (state) supporting Senior football clubs.

DCFC aren't ROI (obv); UCD may play in the LOI, but they aren't a conventional professional club in the sense of being sustained by the usual means (crowds, sponsors, advertising, media etc); while Kerry may well become established - and fair play if/when they do - but it's still not (quite) confirmed.

[pineapple stu]

Eh, what?

You know nothing about UCD based on that post anyway

[Nesta99]

Only photo I can see of Lourdes Stadium is a pitch, track and nothing else? I assume there's a stand.
Yup but Drog Town have a tidy ground in a housing estate, size of a pitch and clubroom. There'd be little space for spectators unless standing on the sideline. Probably not a problem initially but get any sort of decent crowd and it's a squeeze. Lourdes Stadium has all the space needed. These are all preliminary expressions of interest, plenty will be filtered out but should be canvassed for wider structure development. Its gas seeing Salthill, Mervue in again but this time not able to lord it over GUFC - I'd love to see them in Europe the same season the other two are humbly entering a 3rd tier of LoI after returning to their little fiefdom.

[legendz]

Newmarket Celtic won the FAI Junior Cup in recent years. A club like that could be pragmatic that LoI football or full time professionalism isn't attainable.
In a dual pyramid structure, a Newmarket Celtic could strive to be the top of the Junior/District to Intermediate/Regional pathway.
The Elite pathway then could have more stringent criteria in coaching qualifications, infrastructure, academies etc.. For strategic reasons having clubs from certain regions could be a preferred necessity for the Elite pathway. The intention of the Elite pathway should be the attainability of full time professionalism.
The suggested National League could well be a good start towards building a pathway from the district & regional leagues to the National League eventually.
A pragmatic approach might be required on the National League to LoI. Whether there is direct promotion or else in time licencing to be achieved for clubs who want to be within an Elite pathway.

[nr637]

Not really? Criticism is fundamental to conversation and learning I'd have thought.

Otherwise everyone just accepts things at face value, and that's no good to anyone.

Thanks again for your post, but criticism has always been considered as a negative word as it can be associated with the sender who wants to show their disapproval on comments!

[Buckett]

I am not ignoring that a lot of my post is based on speculation, but it seems to be a bit unfair of you now to be critical. It is just a conversation on where the interest in the new third tier National League could come from!

No, it started as a response to my post that I didn't believe there 67 clubs interested because very few publicly said they were interested and then you started using social media "sources"(ffs!) as fact.

[pineapple stu]

Thanks again for your post, but criticism has always been considered as a negative word as it can be associated with the sender who want to show his disapproval on comments!

Criticism certainly hasn't always been considered a negative word.

It's the cornerstone of debate. Points should stand up to scrutiny. If they don't (for example, the criticism of your suggestion that UCD would be interested in the third tier) then they need adjusting.

[EalingGreen]

Eh, what?

You know nothing about UCD based on that post anyway
If you tell me that were the football club detached from the university, had to rent or buy its own ground (Bowl or elsewhere), and was unable to avail of scholarships, that it could still operate sustainably over the long-term in the FD (at least), then fair enough, I'm happy to retract.

In any case, it doesn't detract from my basic point that ROI surely ought to be able to support more than 19 Senior clubs. I mean, Scotland supports 42 clubs on the same population, even despite the two Ugly Sisters sucking the blood from everyone else.

[pineapple stu]

If you tell me that were the football club detached from the university, had to rent or buy its own ground (Bowl or elsewhere), and was unable to avail of scholarships, that it could still operate sustainably over the long-term in the FD (at least), then fair enough, I'm happy to retract.
Yes, it would.

Let's not kid ourselves that other clubs aren't getting Council support too. Would Bray be sustainable if they had to pay market rent for the Carlisle and not a peppercorn rent for example? I think Waterford and Derry get good deals on their rent too.

And it's good to see organisations like that supporting the league too

[Nesta99]

nr637 and some others are obviously enthusiastic and passionate about the expansion of the senior game, if we got a € for every time pyramid was mentioned we'd all have a nice earner. In the absence of any concrete info speculation is all there is and why not, its harmless. Ive mentioned a few Ive heard but was I sitting in committee meetings when the issue was discussed, nope, but I do know a few people that are involved in the admin of local sides that are usually on the ball. Under the circumstances and the very surprising report of 67 interested clubs its a little harsh to come down on posters that excitedly guestimate on who many of those clubs out of left field might be. We all struggled to think of where we'd get 20 sides not so long ago.

UCD as an example was an error but sub in Maynooth. UCD is also a bona fide LoI club associated with the university but would function indpendently if the university decided to cut ties. Thankfully the University see the LoI club as an asset, they could do more even imo by maybe having The Bowl prioritised for the LoI side rather than wrecking the pitch with other sports that dont need spectator facilities of note.

[nr637]

Criticism certainly hasn't always been considered a negative word.

It's the cornerstone of debate. Points should stand up to scrutiny. If they don't (for example, the criticism of your suggestion that UCD would be interested in the third tier) then they need adjusting.
While I accept your criticism, I think you will find that a debate is about opposing views, I agree with the use of social media as a form of sourcing information that maybe true in part and you don't, is that fair to say!

[ForeForeToo]

Yes, it would.

Let's not kid ourselves that other clubs aren't getting Council support too. Would Bray be sustainable if they had to pay market rent for the Carlisle and not a peppercorn rent for example? I think Waterford and Derry get good deals on their rent too.

And it's good to see organisations like that supporting the league too

Stu, this chap exists on here to put the LOI down.

[nr637]

No, it started as a response to my post that I didn't believe there 67 clubs interested because very few publicly said they were interested and then you started using social media "sources"(ffs!) as fact.

So, why did the FAI reveal that 67 clubs were interested and I mentioned there was a lot of speculation on clubs social media forums and outlets because that's how information is spread now!

[nr637]

nr637 and some others are obviously enthusiastic and passionate about the expansion of the senior game, if we got a € for every time pyramid was mentioned we'd all have a nice earner. In the absence of any concrete info speculation is all there is and why not, its harmless. Ive mentioned a few Ive heard but was I sitting in committee meetings when the issue was discussed, nope, but I do know a few people that are involved in the admin of local sides that are usually on the ball. Under the circumstances and the very surprising report of 67 interested clubs its a little harsh to come down on posters that excitedly guestimate on who many of those clubs out of left field might be. We all struggled to think of where we'd get 20 sides not so long ago.

UCD as an example was an error but sub in Maynooth. UCD is also a bona fide LoI club associated with the university but would function indpendently if the university decided to cut ties. Thankfully the University see the LoI club as an asset, they could do more even imo by maybe having The Bowl prioritised for the LoI side rather than wrecking the pitch with other sports that dont need spectator facilities of note.

I like your post, hope a few more read it!

[kksaints]

Klub Kildare are definitely interested according to the Kildare Nationalist.

[pineapple stu]

While I accept your criticism, I think you will find that a debate is about opposing views
Yes, but not all views are equal. When one view is refuted (eg UCD aren't an option for the third tier), that should be acknowledged

[Nesta99]

Yes, but not all views are equal. When one view is refuted (eg UCD aren't an option for the third tier), that should be acknowledged

I felt it was a naive example made by a newcomer to the LoI fold due to the entry of Kerry or maybe some other potentil new member. I dont think it negates other speculation. I forget about Finn Harps all the time when listing clubs (its now more mischief) but I certainly dont have any aissue with Harpsm fans or intend disrespect....with the exception of the peculiararities of the ground the development but it wa the same with Tallaght.

Is it really anti LoI posting??? If there are examples Ive missed than Id change my opinion.

[EalingGreen]

Stu, this chap exists on here to put the LOI down.Why not play the ball instead of the man?

You could start by quoting posts of mine which display such a motive.

(I say "posts", but even one would do.. :rolleyes:)

[ForeForeToo]

Why not play the ball instead of the man?

You could start by quoting posts of mine which display such a motive.

(I say "posts", but even one would do.. :rolleyes:)

I am entitled to express my opinion without having to demonstrate anything to you. I will respectfully decline to meet your demands on where I should start.

[legendz]

Klub Kildare are definitely interested according to the Kildare Nationalist. Good for them. Mayo, CK and Kildare have competed in the academy leagues. The only ones really with a visible intent on joining an LoI pathway.

From a strategic point of view for expanding the academy leagues to more areas, possibly only three stand out?:
• Meath
• Offaly & Laois
• Monaghan & Cavan

Areas which are possibly ok with neighbouring regions:
° Clare towards Treaty.
° North Tipperary towards Treaty.
° South Tipperary towards Waterford.
° North Roscommon & Leitrim towards Sligo?
° South Roscommon towards Athlone?

While the National League sounds great, three non LoI regions are in the academy leagues already (Mayo, Kildare and Carlow/Kilkenny) and there are probably only three more non LoI regions that would ideally join the academy leagues (Meath, Offaly/Laois and Cavan/Monaghan).

[EalingGreen]

I am entitled to express my opinion without having to demonstrate anything to you. I will respectfully decline to meet your demands on where I should start.The vacuity of that response brings to mind the old adage: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[Elfman]

nr637 and some others are obviously enthusiastic and passionate about the expansion of the senior game, if we got a € for every time pyramid was mentioned we'd all have a nice earner... In the absence of any concrete info speculation is all there is and why not, its harmless. Under the circumstances and the very surprising report of 67 interested clubs its a little harsh to come down on posters that excitedly guestimate on who many of those clubs out of left field might be. We all struggled to think of where we'd get 20 sides not so long ago.


Here, here. Well said Nesta.

[Elfman]

From a strategic point of view for expanding the academy leagues to more areas, possibly only three stand out?:
• Meath
• Offaly & Laois
• Monaghan & Cavan

Areas which are possibly ok with neighbouring regions:
° Clare towards Treaty.
° North Tipperary towards Treaty.
° South Tipperary towards Waterford.
° North Roscommon & Leitrim towards Sligo?
° South Roscommon towards Athlone?

While the National League sounds great, three non LoI regions are in the academy leagues already (Mayo, Kildare and Carlow/Kilkenny) and there are probably only three more non LoI regions that would ideally join the academy leagues (Meath, Offaly/Laois and Cavan/Monaghan).

To use your amateur vs elite pyramid theory, and with the alleged high interest from clubs, I think there's an opportunity here to work on the academy leagues:

If the FAI favour applications to the NL from clubs with existing underage teams, they could create a separate National Underage League. This would have shorter distances due to the North/South divide and could be used as criteria for promotion to FD.

Not enough clubs with underage teams? No problem, but you won't get promoted until you meet the criteria. Finish bottom? Back to your old league and offer it to the next club off the rank so they can have a crack.

[nr637]

Yes, but not all views are equal. When one view is refuted (eg UCD aren't an option for the third tier), that should be acknowledged

If you had read previous post, I did acknowledge "Fair enough, it may have been Dublin University so, that I read somewhere were showing interest according to some social media sources."
As for views some are right, some are wrong and most are somewhere in-between, if not we will just have to agree to disagree!

[Kiki Balboa]

Good for them. Mayo, CK and Kildare have competed in the academy leagues. The only ones really with a visible intent on joining an LoI pathway.



Meath and a Cavan/Monaghan team have also competed at LOI underage too.

[legendz]

To use your amateur vs elite pyramid theory, and with the alleged high interest from clubs, I think there's an opportunity here to work on the academy leagues:

If the FAI favour applications to the NL from clubs with existing underage teams, they could create a separate National Underage League. This would have shorter distances due to the North/South divide and could be used as criteria for promotion to FD.

Not enough clubs with underage teams? No problem, but you won't get promoted until you meet the criteria. Finish bottom? Back to your old league and offer it to the next club off the rank so they can have a crack.
I'm not enthused by the National League but I think it is probably the only option. If there was to be a Third Tier with clubs who have LoI academies, it would probably only consist of Shamrock Rovers II, Mayo, CK and Kildare.
The National League should be a good step towards eventually having a pathway from district leagues. I'm not convinced about it being a pathway to the LoI but it's the only practical way currently to get some Third Tier and pathway off the ground.

[EatYerGreens]

I'm not enthused by the National League but I think it is probably the only option. If there was to be a Third Tier with clubs who have LoI academies, it would probably only consist of Shamrock Rovers II, Mayo, CK and Kildare.
The National League should be a good step towards eventually having a pathway from district leagues. I'm not convinced about it being a pathway to the LoI but it's the only practical way currently to get some Third Tier and pathway off the ground.

I think this is probably a fair analysis.

We all know what type of pyramid Irish football would have in a perfect world. But the world of Irish football is far from perfect. You have to start every journey from where you are, not where you'd ideally like to be, so this - plus the move to Summer football throughout the junior and intermediate tiers - seem like reasonable enough steps to begin constructing a pyramid that is rooted in our reality.

[Elfman]

I think we're all in agreement there. Most of us have probably been burned too many times not to be a little sceptical but I feel better knowing the changes are being done bit by bit - feels more likely to stick than one massive change.

Just on the academies piece Legendz, what does an academy look like to you? Is it just a few underage teams, a team at every age group or a seperate entity from the men's team although?

I'm also genuinely curious to know where, ideally, people here see the bottom rung of the ladder to begin the reforms. Provincial leagues, County leagues or regional leagues, where would you start?

[EatYerGreens]

I'm also genuinely curious to know where, ideally, people here see the bottom rung of the ladder to begin the reforms. Provincial leagues, County leagues or regional leagues, where would you start?

The problem is we have a lack of uniformity in structures across the country. If you go to England they have district leagues, county leagues, combined county leagues, and then the long-standing leagues above that like the Isthmian, Spartan, Southern etc. With a clear flow between them all. They also have individual county FAs, so clear responsibility for which structure a particular club should be part of. You could start a football team in Engalnd tomorrow, get accepted to join a particular league from this Summer, and you'll automatically know which tier in the pyramid that team is (e.g. level 14).

We don't have any of that in Ireland. We don't have the equivalent of district leagues, some of which straddke counties. We don't have county FAs. We don't have county leagues covering all of their county, and we don't even have provincial leagues.

Given Ireland is a very county-focused place, it would probably make sense to have county leagues which then feed into regional or provincial leagues. What we have currently is a bit of a mess, and getting the entire country converted over to one standardised unifr system so there is a clear pipeline will be a challenge (but not impossible).

So to answer you're question - I have no idea where the bottom of the pyramid should be :D

[Elfman]

So to answer you're question - I have no idea where the bottom of the pyramid should be :D

Haha you're far too humble EYG, I thought that was a great answer! I was under the impression that this was our (much messier) quasi pyramid:

National: LOI
Provincial: LSL & MSL
County: Kerry District League, Mayo Super League, etc.
Regional: West Cork League, North Tipperary & District Soccer League, etc.

There's obviously outliers across counties (e.g. Monaghan Cavan League or West Waterford East Cork League) but I thought we could just pick a level and say "let's start here". To take one example, I know that Galway has its own FA and its district league only has Galway clubs (I swear I read somewhere that clubs playing in leagues with the word 'district' in the title meant that they could recruit from anywhere inside the county) but it sounds like that's not widespread.

So my suggestion for reform would be to start at what I've called regional level (arbitrary locations that have local attachment such as West Cork) and then build up from there with FAs at every level e.g. West Cork, East Cork/West Waterford & various Cork City leagues -> one Cork county league -> Munster Senior League -> LOI

[legendz]

Just on the academies piece Legendz, what does an academy look like to you? Is it just a few underage teams, a team at every age group or a seperate entity from the men's team although?
Tbh, once a club has teams in the academy leagues I'm calling it their academy.
Academies need to be graded. I think that is something the FAI are supposed to be looking. Tier 1, 2 and 3 academies or something like that. There's not enough full time coaches and major investment is needed in facilities. Where does anyone start? Contact hours etc.
Nationally then how players per age group realistically are good enough for professional football and how can they get the coaching required? Do these players need to gravitate towards a select few academies?

[Roones26]

Haha you're far too humble EYG, I thought that was a great answer! I was under the impression that this was our (much messier) quasi pyramid:

National: LOI
Provincial: LSL & MSL
County: Kerry District League, Mayo Super League, etc.
Regional: West Cork League, North Tipperary & District Soccer League, etc.

There's obviously outliers across counties (e.g. Monaghan Cavan League or West Waterford East Cork League) but I thought we could just pick a level and say "let's start here". To take one example, I know that Galway has its own FA and its district league only has Galway clubs (I swear I read somewhere that clubs playing in leagues with the word 'district' in the title meant that they could recruit from anywhere inside the county) but it sounds like that's not widespread.

So my suggestion for reform would be to start at what I've called regional level (arbitrary locations that have local attachment such as West Cork) and then build up from there with FAs at every level e.g. West Cork, East Cork/West Waterford & various Cork City leagues -> one Cork county league -> Munster Senior League -> LOI

this is simply impossible because there is a structure already in place with people and institutions and clubs with a vested interested in the status quo. it is much easier, however more effective, to put structures in place where they dont already exist and in this instance that is from the top down

[Elfman]

Tbh, once a club has teams in the academy leagues I'm calling it their academy.
OK good to know, thanks. With that definition, I think it shouldn't be a big ask for clubs in the National League to field 4 and 2 boys & girls teams before getting promoted. The best would have them already, the major change would be travel costs AFAIK. So maybe clubs start with one team in the first year and gradually increase each year. The key would be linking academies to promotion to ensure/allow clubs to establish themselves in NL before making the big jump to the demands of FD academies.

I definitely agree on a tiering system but for me it would be as simple as a team in every age group at FD level and an integrated education alongside training at PD level. Won't happen overnight but would be nice to see formal targets so clubs know they will have to plan to aim for these things.

As for the other things you mention, I suppose money answers most of those concerns and it's likely going to come from the government, rich benefactors or the clubs themselves. As for players moving to a select few academies, that will always be a danger even; it'll be up to the powers that be to try and balance this to avoid talent hoarding.

I'd generally advise a 'walk before you run' approach to all this anyway - we've made great progress with minimum wage levels in the league in the last few years so now we just need to try to encourage further club spending on infrastructure.

[Nesta99]

Stu, this chap exists on here to put the LOI down.

Assuming you are referring to Ealing Green? For years we have looked down out noses at the Irish League, poor crowds, chuckling at managers going on holidays during European games, quality of football, the almost totally dominant success in the Setanta Cup and Unite the Union Cup hammerig of IL champions etc. We since have had a significant additional upsurge in attendences and additional progrss in Europe. I dont think its unreasonable for an Irish League fan to push back with its own merits - more developed structures, wider focus on facilities development, proportionate increases in attendances albeit I think its more complex than the simple extrapolation of populations. There are also the lengthy debates between EYG and EG that became as much about the technicalities of winning the debate and possibly construed as criticism of one or another league when it was more individual oneupmanship. Maybe there is some historical aspect between a Derry fan and a fan of an older order IL club? I actually enjoyed much of the debate and even if someone is anti LoI it is an alternative perspective that can break an echo chamber. I dont think it is putting LoI down as much as trying to demonstrate that IL is developing in its own way. We look to parachute urban area clubs we believe to have potential in to a new division and the alternative opinion is the different experience in IL, so what, even if the point it laboured. If the comment above is not a reference to EG then just ignore this post!!

[EatYerGreens]

Assuming you are referring to Ealing Green? For years we have looked down out noses at the Irish League, poor crowds, chuckling at managers going on holidays during European games, quality of football, the almost totally dominant success in the Setanta Cup and Unite the Union Cup hammerig of IL champions etc. We since have had a significant additional upsurge in attendences and additional progrss in Europe. I dont think its unreasonable for an Irish League fan to push back with its own merits - more developed structures, wider focus on facilities development, proportionate increases in attendances albeit I think its more complex than the simple extrapolation of populations. There are also the lengthy debates between EYG and EG that became as much about the technicalities of winning the debate and possibly construed as criticism of one or another league when it was more individual oneupmanship. Maybe there is some historical aspect between a Derry fan and a fan of an older order IL club? I actually enjoyed much of the debate and even if someone is anti LoI it is an alternative perspective that can break an echo chamber. I dont think it is putting LoI down as much as trying to demonstrate that IL is developing in its own way. We look to parachute urban area clubs we believe to have potential in to a new division and the alternative opinion is the different experience in IL, so what, even if the point it laboured. If the comment above is not a reference to EG then just ignore this post!!

This is the second or third time you've referred to me as a Derry fan. Why? I'm not from Derry, and you have no idea which team I support.

[EatYerGreens]

If only one of the 67 applicants for the new National League is an LOI B Team (Rovers) then I hope they will be rejected. It would make no sense to have just a single B team there, and that's before we get onto the issue that they can't be promoted. We should hopefully be able to get 20 good teams/clubs out of the 67 applicants without having to resort to second-strings.

Did the FAI ever say when they would make a decision on the applicants? Presumably there will be additional stages they have to go through after the initial expression of interest (?). Is there any clarity at all on the process from now? :D

[legendz]

OK good to know, thanks. With that definition, I think it shouldn't be a big ask for clubs in the National League to field 4 and 2 boys & girls teams before getting promoted. The best would have them already, the major change would be travel costs AFAIK. So maybe clubs start with one team in the first year and gradually increase each year. The key would be linking academies to promotion to ensure/allow clubs to establish themselves in NL before making the big jump to the demands of FD academies.
Another question then is is there a need for Finn Harps and Letterkenny both to have LoI academies? Maybe there is? An Athlone - Mullingar rivalry might not be a bad thing.

[Nesta99]

This is the second or third time you've referred to me as a Derry fan. Why? I'm not from Derry, and you have no idea which team I support.

Fair enough, with the examples of Derry used in various debates with EG I made an assumption. So who do you support or is it a secret?

[EatYerGreens]

Fair enough, with the examples of Derry used in various debates with EG I made an assumption. So who do you support or is it a secret?

I recently also talked on here fairly knowledgeably about Roscommon and the LOI too. And about Tipperary. I read everything I can about the LOI, across all clubs, so have a pretty good grasp on what's going on right around the country. The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.

As for support I've an uncle who was a Leitrim-based Sligo fan who used to take me to games with him sometimes. So i've a soft spot for the Bit O' Red. My family background is also Tipperary, and there hasn't been a club there since 1982. So I don't really support anyone in particular. I'm just interested in Irish football and have been for years.

Not that I need to explain myself to you anyway :rolleyes: So feck away off with your your nonesense.

[Elfman]

Another question then is is there a need for Finn Harps and Letterkenny both to have LoI academies? Maybe there is? An Athlone - Mullingar rivalry might not be a bad thing.
Good questions and that's why I think the definition of an academy is important. If it's just youth teams, heck yes. You want to build a fan base in your community and you need to be able to involve everyone: kids, parents, siblings, aunts & uncles, etc.

If we're talking more professional academies, with integrated education, on-site canteen and overnight facilities, it seems other countries have limited academies to certain clubs. That approach might upset a balanced competition domestically but the counter argument is that if everyone has an academy, you might be spreading your resources (ie. grants) too thinly and affect your global competitiveness.

So if Finn Harps have the only professional academy in Donegal, it might encourage more kids to go to them than Letterkenny Rovers. If both clubs have one, you're in danger of neither club matching the standard of, say, a club like Molde in Norway. But as you say, it might encourage fiercer local rivalries which generally seem to draw the biggest interest!

So it's a balancing act but I'd recommend looking after what we can control (ie. getting at least one team at every age group nationally as a standard), grow the fan base in the communities and hope this puts more pressure on gov for better funding.

[EalingGreen]

The discussion you were referring to with EG re Derry was about their stadium - where I clearly had a much better understanding than him on how it was being funded (not that the guy can be told), due to having read about it in some depth.
Says the poster who iirc didn't even seem to appreciate that The Brandywell is actually owned by D&S Council, rather than DCFC, until it was pointed out to him!