20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

[Nesta99]

Nigel is a secret Leterkenny/Bonagee/Cockhill fan and has been sabotaging the move to Stranrolar all this time...Wont get fooled again added to the spotify playlist!

[Burnsie]

As much as I’d love to hear more baseless speculation about which provincial towns could magically concoct a senior football structure out of thin air in the next few months, here:s some actual news : there’ll be 16 clubs involved, not 20. As you would imagine, the requirements around facilities proved too exacting for most applicants. The initial season will run from September to December. Source is an FAI board member

[legendz]

It seems more than 60 applicants are being whittled down to 16. If academy criteria is part of LoI licencing, possibly only 3 of 16 would be eligible for promotion to the First Division, subject to meeting other criteria.
A fourth tier coming into consideration for those missing the cut might resemble more broadly what a pyramid will look like in practice. Clubs getting to a certain level but not meeting the criteria to go higher unless they achieve the necessary licencing requirements.
It'll be interesting in time to see what level the LSL and MSL will align at, and also if there will be regional leagues formed at a similar level for district leagues to potentially feed in to.
If any new regions then were to follow in the footsteps of Kerry to build through the youth leagues upwards, there should be an agreeable level that a club like that could join.

[Burnsie]

Anything below level 3 is a pipe dream. I’d say we’re getting the A Championship mark II and that’s it

[pineapple stu]

Burnsie - is that 16 including B teams?

[nigel-harps1954]

Maybe the fact that other non-league clubs such as Letterkenny Rovers, Bonagee United, and Cockhill Celtic from the Donegal area are seriously considering the new thiird tier league. Maybe it is time some new ideas for soccer in the area. I think the whole Finn Harps stadium build saga has frustrated soccer people in the area and many may want a new club to follow with a different agenda!

This one is too fantastic to delete. Can I pin this post somewhere? Top work.

[Roones26]

As much as I’d love to hear more baseless speculation about which provincial towns could magically concoct a senior football structure out of thin air in the next few months, here:s some actual news : there’ll be 16 clubs involved, not 20. As you would imagine, the requirements around facilities proved too exacting for most applicants. The initial season will run from September to December. Source is an FAI board member

Obviously I think everyone would like to have got the 20 but 16 for the first season is near enough as to be no difference

[Burnsie]

Burnsie - is that 16 including B teams?

I don't know, sorry.

[pineapple stu]

Obviously if 10 of the 16 are B teams, then you're looking at only 6 teams interested in joining the LoI (and meeting criteria I guess), which is pretty crappy after all the time spent on it.

[Buckett]

There might only be six teams ready now but lots of other clubs showed an interest. They now know what they need to do to make the step up. Some of them probably will start working towards that and some will think it's too much for them.
Six teams joining the LOI though is a positive thing

[sbgawa]

I am still hoping that promotion to the second tier is a possibility for B teams

[Roones26]

I also think the fact that clubs were rejected shows that a) there was an actual process with criteria and b) a focus on getting it right rather than letting 4 more in to met the target

Though obliviously as has been pointed out 16 new clubs v 10 B Teams is a huge difference

[pineapple stu]

Six teams joining the LOI though is a positive thing
Yes and no. If they're weak teams and if there's no interest from the MSL/LSL, then it may have no real impact at all. If there was a move from the LSL/MSL into a regional third tier, then longer-term that would have a much better impact.

[EatYerGreens]

It seems more than 60 applicants are being whittled down to 16. If academy criteria is part of LoI licencing, possibly only 3 of 16 would be eligible for promotion to the First Division, subject to meeting other criteria.
A fourth tier coming into consideration for those missing the cut might resemble more broadly what a pyramid will look like in practice. Clubs getting to a certain level but not meeting the criteria to go higher unless they achieve the necessary licencing requirements.
It'll be interesting in time to see what level the LSL and MSL will align at, and also if there will be regional leagues formed at a similar level for district leagues to potentially feed in to.
If any new regions then were to follow in the footsteps of Kerry to build through the youth leagues upwards, there should be an agreeable level that a club like that could join.

Right - what's everyone's guesses as to who the lucky 16 are? Let's see your lists ! :)

(I jest... ;))

[Roones26]

Yes and no. If they're weak teams and if there's no interest from the MSL/LSL, then it may have no real impact at all. If there was a move from the LSL/MSL into a regional third tier, then longer-term that would have a much better impact.

Theres definite insight here. By pulling high performers from the local game in it knits things together otherwise skeptical. Additionally of LSL/MSL/Former USL sides see know value in it youd be afraid conventional wisdom will kill it

[nr637]

Limerick FC social media sources posting about entering an exciting new phase with details to follow.........third tier entrants! 🤔

[da bishop]

Limerick FC social media sources posting about entering an exciting new phase with details to follow.........third tier entrants! 🤔
cant be dismissed ,looking to enter more underage academy teams and what with current developements at Treaty anything is possible.

[The Bowler]

Lucan Utd posted a few days ago that there was big.news coming

[nr637]

So, there are 20 teams out there and I doubt we will be seeing any B teams!

[BigEars]

I am still hoping that promotion to the second tier is a possibility for B teams

I doubt there'll be many non Shamrock Rovers fans who'll be in agreement with that.

If any B teams are allowed into tier 3, I think it's best for the game (although not your particular club) if they can't enter the First Division.

[legendz]

Anything below level 3 is a pipe dream. I’d say we’re getting the A Championship mark II and that’s it Underwhelming if so. Pessimism understandable. If true - so much for the glossy Football Pathways Plan, setting out a 12-year vision to “maximise the potential of Irish football across all levels.”, that might just wind up collecting dust on the shelf like plans that have come and gone before it.
Small grounds for optimism are when Bray and Cabinteely merged, there was no stopgap in 2022. The big push to try and get all leagues aligned to the calendar year season was initially a positive move anyway before the push back. If the third tier is about quality and not quantity, that'll be positive too.
Time will tell if the A Championship mark II is it. Getting buy in from top district league clubs to join regional leagues will be a key step. If regional leagues get off the ground, linking regional leagues to the third tier should be smoother. If regional leagues don't get off the ground, it will be a case of getting the A Championship mark II and that’s it.

[brendy_�ire]

Derry not in talks with Sam Todd, so we can all assume he's definitely away to Bohs.
Chat of Ben Doherty following him, which would be strange. Always did the job for us, but maybe he's thinking he won't get as much game time next season, especially if McClean is coming in.

[legendz]

Derry not in talks with Sam Todd, so we can all assume he's definitely away to Bohs.
Chat of Ben Doherty following him, which would be strange. Always did the job for us, but maybe he's thinking he won't get as much game time next season, especially if McClean is coming in.

Wrong thread there but on McClean - did he play in the A Championship for Derry when he was breaking through?

[Roones26]

Lucan Utd posted a few days ago that there was big.news coming

youd wonder about the connection between Rovers and Lucan if they are in the National League

[sbgawa]

Lucan probably announcing their annual game with us, i cant see them.going Nathional league

[legendz]

"Although we weren’t chosen this time, the message from the selection committee was clear,
Trim Celtic has made a powerful impression and is now a serious contender for the national league pyramid.
We commend the efforts of our Tier 3 sub committee in preparing the submission and thank the FAI for their constructive feedback."

It was a positive reaction from Trim during the week anyway, despite missing out. The 2022 selection process for the First Division seemed to go professionally as well. Small positive signs that tiered expansion might be a thorough enough assessment process - that should ensure the new tier is built on solid foundations, and possibly more tiered expansion is actually achievable, despite understandable pessimism.

[nr637]

How much of the FAI's Third Tier application selection process will be based on facilities such as ground access, spectator capacity, covered seating and general layout and construction of an exsistng clubs venue!

[Burnsie]

I'm not sure if you're just trolling at this point but I'll engage with you in good faith.

As has been pointed out a number of times on this thread, facilities are the key criterion and there are very few examples at the requisite standard around the country, outside current LOI venues (many of which, of course, are themselves probably grandfathered in despite shortcomings....)

[Roones26]

How much of the FAI's Third Tier application selection process will be based on facilities such as ground access, spectator capacity, covered seating and general layout and construction of an exsistng clubs venue!

Don't and can't know until there is news and even then this is an unanswerable question

[legendz]

The Third Tier seems to be a done deal more or less for the end of next year. The youth leagues for a new age grade used to start off with a short season as well. U17 with a truncated season in 2015 and U15 in 2017. Seems a tried and tested introduction for a new league.

It'll be interesting to hear what noises come out about the fourth tier plans, if any.
1) Likely timescale, if in the pipeline.
2) Will it be split into two regions like the Third Tier or split into more regions. If the fourth tier has 3 or 4 regions, does linking to the MSL and LSL nearly become the next step by default.
3) At what stage are the MSL and LSL likely to become the next tier, if at all, and will there be regional leagues at a similar level.

[EatYerGreens]

The Third Tier seems to be a done deal more or less for the end of next year. The youth leagues for a new age grade used to start off with a short season as well. U17 with a truncated season in 2015 and U15 in 2017. Seems a tried and tested introduction for a new league.

It'll be interesting to hear what noises come out about the fourth tier plans, if any.
1) Likely timescale, if in the pipeline.
2) Will it be split into two regions like the Third Tier or split into more regions. If the fourth tier has 3 or 4 regions, does linking to the MSL and LSL nearly become the next step by default.
3) At what stage are the MSL and LSL likely to become the next tier, if at all, and will there be regional leagues at a similar level.

I'd say the FAI would be wise to give the new 3rd tier a few years to bed in and get fully up and running before making any waves about a 4th tier. Especially as that is likely to be about re-engineering what already exists, and thereby ruffling feathers and stepping on toes. They need to view the creation of a genuine pyramid here as a 5 or so year project, and not something to be rushed through.

[nigel-harps1954]

Some of the nonsense here is almost worse than the suggestion lists of teams.

There's been no mention anywhere of just 16 teams.

Theres been no mention anywhere of B teams.

There's been no discussion about a fourth tier. So suggestions towards that can be put on the back burner for now rather than derailing things even further.

[Buckett]

In fairness, the first line of the first post is "lets list possible teams for the proposed North and South Divisions." The thread is what it is, pure speculation.

Anyways, we're almost at the end of November now, so we'll soon find out what's happening.

[nr637]

I'm not sure if you're just trolling at this point but I'll engage with you in good faith.

As has been pointed out a number of times on this thread, facilities are the key criterion and there are very few examples at the requisite standard around the country, outside current LOI venues (many of which, of course, are themselves probably grandfathered in despite shortcomings....)

I should report you for accusing me of trolling as I am not deliberately trying to upset you or others online, it is for the administrators to monitor. I totally support of the new National League third tier format and am entitled to post my view here. I would appreciate if you could refrain from your type of post. Please comment fairly and do not make claims just cause you don't accept someone's opinion.

[nr637]

Some of the nonsense here is almost worse than the suggestion lists of teams.

There's been no mention anywhere of just 16 teams.

Theres been no mention anywhere of B teams.

There's been no discussion about a fourth tier. So suggestions towards that can be put on the back burner for now rather than derailing things even further.

But thats the idea of a forum, people comment and add opinions that create the discussion. It,s all in good form as people are talking about a game they just love!

[nr637]

I think everyone agrees that the main idea behind the fornmtion of a new National league is to expand the LOI into counties/areas that are not currently represented, which is a driving factor for clubs in Kildare, Carlow, Kilkenny, Meath, Wicklow, and Offaly.

[pineapple stu]

But thats the idea of a forum, people comment and add opinions that create the discussion. It,s all in good form as people are talking about a game they just love!
Ah, I think people get tired of repetitive baseless lists though.

[Burnsie]

Some of the nonsense here is almost worse than the suggestion lists of teams.

There's been no mention anywhere of just 16 teams.

Theres been no mention anywhere of B teams.

There's been no discussion about a fourth tier. So suggestions towards that can be put on the back burner for now rather than derailing things even further.

An FAI board member told a meeting last week that it'll be 16 teams.

And Mark Scanlon is on record (for instance on LOI Central a couple of years ago) saying that the plan is (or was) for a fourth tier to be bolted on in the future.

[EatYerGreens]

Ah, I think people get tired of repetitive baseless lists though.

Especially as the conjecture just fogs the whole issue, and makes it difficult to keep sight of who actually has applied.

[nr637]

Ah, I think people get tired of repetitive baseless lists though.
Fair enough and totally understand, I suppose its how most discussions go until there is some real news or statement on the next stage of the plan.

[legendz]

The Football Pathways Plan:
"02 STRUCTURE: AN INTEGRATED
APPROACH WITH GREATER SUPPORT
• A clear pyramid with promotion and relegation at all levels.
FAI CUP - TIERS 1 TO 5
FAI AMATEUR CUP - TIERS 3 TO 6"

The fourth tier seems the next logical step of the Football Pathways Plan. When tier 3 is announced - hopefully there will be some word on what to expect next.

If Trim Celtic, as per their announcement, "has made a powerful impression and is now a serious contender for the national league pyramid" - it'll be interesting to see what that actually means.

[culloty82]

Just that if/when it expands to twenty teams, they'll be first in the queue, I'd imagine.

[EatYerGreens]

Just that if/when it expands to twenty teams, they'll be first in the queue, I'd imagine.

Really? Because it sounds to me like it's just self-promoting ballix.

They've essentially bene told "Don't call us - we'll call you". If they'd made that powerful an impression, they'd be in the new 3rd tier. They're not, so they clearly didn't.

[nr637]

The Football Pathways Plan:
"02 STRUCTURE: AN INTEGRATED
APPROACH WITH GREATER SUPPORT
• A clear pyramid with promotion and relegation at all levels.
FAI CUP - TIERS 1 TO 5
FAI AMATEUR CUP - TIERS 3 TO 6"

The fourth tier seems the next logical step of the Football Pathways Plan. When tier 3 is announced - hopefully there will be some word on what to expect next.

If Trim Celtic, as per their announcement, "has made a powerful impression and is now a serious contender for the national league pyramid" - it'll be interesting to see what that actually means.



https://www.facebook.com/trimceltic1967/posts/-big-news-for-trim-celtic-afc-were-thrilled-to-announce-our-new-development-plan/843918664986908/

[2 Year Contract]

Hard to take anything Trim Celtic take seriously when they also post stuff like this

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1AUdjyW1YW/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[BigEars]

The Football Pathways Plan:
"02 STRUCTURE: AN INTEGRATED
APPROACH WITH GREATER SUPPORT
• A clear pyramid with promotion and relegation at all levels.
FAI CUP - TIERS 1 TO 5
FAI AMATEUR CUP - TIERS 3 TO 6"

The fourth tier seems the next logical step of the Football Pathways Plan. When tier 3 is announced - hopefully there will be some word on what to expect next.

If Trim Celtic, as per their announcement, "has made a powerful impression and is now a serious contender for the national league pyramid" - it'll be interesting to see what that actually means.

A 4th tier will likely take a huge amount of restructuring if it's regionalised to more than 2 areas (which it likely will be).

The LSL would be easy to integrate.
But everything after that becomes tricky, do you go for 3 regions or 4 ?
Do we stick to traditional provinces (with Ulster only having 3 counties) or split to Dublin, Leinster, Munster, Connacht-Ulster ?

How do you integrate the MSL ? It's currently a Cork only league and some of the strongest clubs in Munster are playing Junior football in their own district leagues. Do you need to create temporary North/South Munster leagues to get some of those Junior clubs at a higher level before creating a proper Munster senior league ?

Something will definitely need to be done long term, but there's no question it's a minefield. The 3rd tier is the easy bit.......and it's certainly not easy !

[Elfman]

Really? Because it sounds to me like it's just self-promoting ballix.

They've essentially bene told "Don't call us - we'll call you". If they'd made that powerful an impression, they'd be in the new 3rd tier. They're not, so they clearly didn't.
It does sound a bit like self-promotion but you'd hope the FAI weren't as blunt as that. They asked for applications and then whittled it down to the serious ones. For clubs that applied in good faith and made it as far as Trim did, I hope the FAI let them down gently to encourage them to apply in future and avoid them coming out of the whole thing cynical and bitter.

[Elfman]

A 4th tier will likely take a huge amount of restructuring if it's regionalised to more than 2 areas (which it likely will be).

The LSL would be easy to integrate.

Do we stick to traditional provinces (with Ulster only having 3 counties) or split to Dublin, Leinster, Munster, Connacht-Ulster ?

How do you integrate the MSL ? It's currently a Cork only league and some of the strongest clubs in Munster are playing Junior football in their own district leagues.

I wouldn't necessarily say the LSL would be easy to integrate – they've essentially become a Dublin only league with non-Dublin clubs leaving for their own districts such as Parkvilla to Meath (NEFL) and Willow Park to Athlone (CCFL).

I think you'd have to start with the provincial FAs. Outside of the SFAI, who have 30 votes iirc, the four FAs have the largest voting block (46 votes) in the FAI's General Assembly. The Leinster FA alone has the same voting power as the entire Premier Division.

So if you want to stick to provinces or create new regions entirely, I think you'll need regional FAs who will support it.

[Burnsie]

the clubs will decide themselves, and I wouldn't expect there'll be any more enthusiasm within the LSL to become a fourth tier than there was to join the third (which is to say, pretty minimial)

As i've said before, unless and until there are significant financial incentives (such as grants) to switch to the aligned calendar and join the League of Ireland, most clubs will be happy enough tipping away as they've always done , and can do without all the extra admin hassle

[Roones26]

the clubs will decide themselves, and I wouldn't expect there'll be any more enthusiasm within the LSL to become a fourth tier than there was to join the third (which is to say, pretty minimial)

As i've said before, unless and until there are significant financial incentives (such as grants) to switch to the aligned calendar and join the League of Ireland, most clubs will be happy enough tipping away as they've always done , and can do without all the extra admin hassle

The approach and in my opinion the correct one, is that its not actually about integrating anyone its about creating an environment where it says this is the league we are offering, any club with ambition and drive to be more than the LSL or Intermediate or County Leagues are now opt in