Attendances 2023

[JC_GUFC]

FAI Connect seems to be patchier than usual tonight, with no data at all for the First Division.

I think it’s up to the clubs themselves to update it. No idea what it’s not done on the night for some teams.

Am told the Galway United figure is 2,704 for tonight’s game with Waterford. I’d say up to 300 of those were away fans. Fantastic support from them given the distance.

The owner (Andy Pilley) and director of football (Jon Walters) were both there. To be fair to the owner he seems to be at an awful lot of their matches. I think more than a lot of the other foreign owners he genuinely wants to see his plan progress.

[joey B]

927 at Cobh/Harps per FAI Connect…

[joey B]

1451 at Drogheda/Derry….

[Shearer]

542 at the Markets Field.

Bit of a headscratcher with that dip. It was bucketing down in the hours leading up to kick-off but not sure that stands up as an excuse.

[culloty82]

Particularly when you've been in good form lately.

[gufct]

I think it’s up to the clubs themselves to update it. No idea what it’s not done on the night for some teams.

Am told the Galway United figure is 2,704 for tonight’s game with Waterford. I’d say up to 300 of those were away fans. Fantastic support from them given the distance.

The owner (Andy Pilley) and director of football (Jon Walters) were both there. To be fair to the owner he seems to be at an awful lot of their matches. I think more than a lot of the other foreign owners he genuinely wants to see his plan progress.


They flew into knock by Private plane and helicopter from there .

[sbgawa]

Interesting to note that, as it's something that is actively discouraged in the GAA.
How does the standby system work?

Dont know really i think it was just the club trying to help some fans out who turned up with no tickets , wasnt liek there were hundreds.
I suppose its always a bit of guesswork as to how many STH turn up.

[JC_GUFC]

They flew into knock by Private plane and helicopter from there .

If they flew by private plane why not to Galway airport?!

[toffeejay84]

LOI Connect app has updated older submitted games. I suspect that they add in figures they are verbally told or hear at games. But once the FAI receives the official written reports from clubs/referees they update everything.. Its good to see they are taking it serious and correcting things.

Derry-Drogheda was 3605 now 3270
Derry-Pats was 3054 now 3450
Cork-Derry was 3307 now 3361

[outspoken]

542 at the Markets Field.

Bit of a headscratcher with that dip. It was bucketing down in the hours leading up to kick-off but not sure that stands up as an excuse.

I think Tommy Barrett has spoken about the poor attendances recently enough, there seems to still be a lack of connection between the city and the club. I personally don't enjoy visiting MF, it's a soulless venue and away end is terrible.

[Shearer]

I think Tommy Barrett has spoken about the poor attendances recently enough, there seems to still be a lack of connection between the city and the club. I personally don't enjoy visiting MF, it's a soulless venue and away end is terrible.
Yeah still a lot of work to be done in that regard.

Markets Field - less said the better.

[legendz]

I think Tommy Barrett has spoken about the poor attendances recently enough, there seems to still be a lack of connection between the city and the club. I personally don't enjoy visiting MF, it's a soulless venue and away end is terrible.Are local or youth games being scheduled on Friday evenings in Limerick?

[Shearer]

Are local or youth games being scheduled on Friday evenings in Limerick?
Not entirely sure about week to week, but the Premier Division League Cup final was played on the same night as a Treaty home game.

[Martinho II]

Are local or youth games being scheduled on Friday evenings in Limerick?

Youth games are played in ground near Railway Station cant remember name of ground a native was telling me when I was there a few weeks back?

[legendz]

Youth games are played in ground near Railway Station cant remember name of ground a native was telling me when I was there a few weeks back?A native was telling me that local games are being scheduled on Friday nights. Totally rowing against Treaty.

[culloty82]

Kerry v Longford the last game for which we're still missing data.

[ger121]

I think Tommy Barrett has spoken about the poor attendances recently enough, there seems to still be a lack of connection between the city and the club. I personally don't enjoy visiting MF, it's a soulless venue and away end is terrible.

Is it a bad venue for atmosphere? Have not been down since Limerick moved back to it. I did do Thomond alright and that did feel soulless due to size of the stadium. Mind you the crowds were a good bit bigger than what they are getting now.

[Abbeyman]

As someone who attends all sports i find the cost of living is a significant factor these days across the board. The GAA still attract huge crowds particulary in Munster Hurling & Ulster Football, posting here about 4000 sell outs & 37,000 at Cork V Tipperary last saturday nght in Cork puts things in perspective. Of the 4 main sports in Ireland i find Hurling & Rugby the most enertaining and im not alone round Limerick, Gaelic Football ( totally overrated) & soccer are tough going at times to watch and particulary in places like Cork & Limerick where theres a lot of choice for punters to choose from.
PS Three sports i could watch on my terrerstial tv yesterday , watched racing mostly from Newmarket , bits of AIL RugbyFinal between 2 Dublin Clubs in a 2/3 empty aviva but still probably 10K there , looked a real family day out with loads of jerseyed fans not needing to behave like louts we sometimes see at Dublin LOI Derbies & flicked occassionally at very one sided gaelic football matchs even if Galway & Kerry scored some well finished goals.

[nr637]

Youth games are played in ground near Railway Station cant remember name of ground a native was telling me when I was there a few weeks back?


Jackman Park ? :confused:

[El-Pietro]

particulary in places like Cork & Limerick where theres a lot of choice for punters to choose from.

As far as I can tell there have been 4 Football games played at Páirc Uí Chaoimh in 2023, all in the national League
Cork v Meath (can't find attendance)
Cork v Dublin (10,232)
Cork v Limerick (7,347, Double Header)
Cork v Derry (can't find attendance)

There have also been 5 Hurling games at the Páirc. Three in the league and two in the Championship
Cork v Limerick (19,500)
Cork v Westmeath (7347 Double Header)
Cork v Wexford (can't find attendance)
Cork v Waterford (29,104)
Cork v Tipperary (36,765).

Thats it for the year. There will be no more Senior Hurling or Football games played in Cork for the rest of the year. If we assume crowds of 10k for the two Football games I don't have attendances for (seems generous) and 15k for the Cork Wexford Hurling game, that gives a total of 137.9k for 9 games (Including a Double Header), for an average of 15.3k for the 9 games, or 17.2k for the 8 gates.

There have been two Munster games at Musgrave Park in 2023, both sellouts at 8,008, in addition to 3 games in the first half of the 2022/23 season pulling an average of 5,726. There was also the South Africa game in November at Páirc Uí Chaoimh with an attendance of 41,400.

Munster only play a handful of games a year in Cork, typically not marquee games, though there are also U20 and Womens games. I'm struggling to find crowds for those games, France U20 was a sellout, I assume there was a good crowd for England U20 too but would doubt the Womens games did so well.

If we total up the Munster and Ireland U20 games at Musgrave Park since the start of the 2022/23 season we get 49k (assuming a sellout for England U20).

Adding The South Africa game brings it to 90k, but that was very much an anomaly, and there was a similar crowd for the Liam Miller game at the same venue a couple of years back so I'm inclined to throw that out

I'm gonna be lazy with Citys attendances, we averaged 4,574 through the first 5 games and added about 3200 for the Pats game. That puts us at 26,070 through 6 of our 18 home games. IF we were to maintain that for the rest of the season we'd be at about 78k by the end of the year (excluding Cup games), though realistically we are a poor side and we aren't going to maintain this level of attendance. We also will probably see a dip in away crowds once everyone has been to the Cross for the first time in a few years. I would put the average attendance floor at about 2,500, which would bring us to about 56k, about 40% of my estimate for total attendance at Páirc Uí Chaoimh this year. You can add in the Iceland U21 game for another ~6000 bringing Turners Cross to ~45% of the PUC attendance for the year and ~126% of the Musgrave Park attendance.

In a good year, with European games City can run the GAA close in total attendances in Cork and I'm confident we get more through the gates at the Cross than they do in Musgrave park almost every year.

I think any comparison of the League of Ireland to Rugby or GAA needs to take into consideration the fact that there are so few games in the latter two sports. Its easy for Cork GAA to sell out the Páirc 2 to 3 times a year in the Championship. Every game feels like an event. If you look at the crowds for the League, you can see that they aren't getting massive crowds. They still do better than City do at the Cross of course but I feel like the comparison isn't as stark as it appears. This is despite the fact that the games are virtually all at weekends, get pretty decent media coverage and are still pretty rare).

Thats not to say that your point that overall there is a lot of choice. Obviously if Cork GAA and Munster Rugby didnt play games in Cork, City might see some more people through the door, and there is also lesser competition from the likes of the UCC and Neptune basketball

[outspoken]

Is it a bad venue for atmosphere? Have not been down since Limerick moved back to it. I did do Thomond alright and that did feel soulless due to size of the stadium. Mind you the crowds were a good bit bigger than what they are getting now.

They've a few lads in the corner making noise but bar that the place just feels empty especially on a windy/wet night

[Shearer]

Kerry v Longford the last game for which we're still missing data.
Just up now, 860.

[outspoken]

Just up now, 860.

Big drop off, surprised how loud MH Park can be when the home fans get excited though, made a real racket when they scored the two goals Friday.

[nigel-harps1954]

Lot of amended official figures on LOI Connect. A few of them lower than originally stated, and a few of them higher. Makes a bit of a change to a few club figures.

Overall numbers of people through the gates has already coming very close to the 2016 season and should probably pass it over the next week or so.

Awaiting official figure from Bray v Waterford (28th Apr)

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 4,251 (3,209 {2022};2,878{19}; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597; 1,496; 1,488)
Cork - 4,455 (3,517 FD; 2,505; 4,245; 4,559; 2,533; 3,263; 3,777; 1,965; 2,786; 2,128 FD)
Derry - 3,563 (3,184; 2,049; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446; 1,460; 2,135)
Drogheda - 1,978 (1,941; 721 FD; ; 377 FD; 850; 583 FD; 813; 1,064; 817; 977; 811)
Dundalk - 2,974 (2,689; 2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997; 949; 1,355)
Pat's - 4,435 (3,489; 1,919; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687; 1,474; 1,346)
Rovers - 6,222 (5,379; 3,384; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763; 3,127; 3,779)
Shels - 3,120 (2,913; 1,071 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114; 1,187; 781 FD)
Sligo - 3,020 (2,166; 1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342; 3,007; 2,103)
UCD - 768 (953; 739; 365 FD; 236 FD; 297 FD; 216 FD; 397; 487; 506; 558; 610)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 829 (307; 382; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754; 271; 200)
Bray - 751 (482; 773; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD; 965 PD; 1,121 PD)
Cobh - 1,242 (872; 268; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439; 2008 - 1,122 PD; 681)
Galway - 2,543 (2,081; 780; 746; 1,376 PD; 1,169 PD; 1,290 PD; 975)
Harps - 1,498 (1,293 PD; 1,154 PD; 708; 1,202 PD; 1,216 PD; 784; 449; 479; 429; 433; 644)
Kerry - 1,094 (No previous)
Longford - 744 (500; 610; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379; 365; 315)
Treaty - 736 (695)
Waterford - 2,215 (1,705; 1,496 PD; 2,329 PD; 1,550; 314; 460; 470; 478; 453; 466)
Wexford - 809 (445; 235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227; 302; 216)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,462 (2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 1,250 (1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,397 (2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)


OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 242,364 (486,365; 393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 81,270 (178,000; 79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)

OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 323,634 (664,365; 472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)

[EatYerGreens]

Awaiting official figures from Bray v Waterford (28th Apr) and Cobh v Kerry (1st May).

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 4,240 (3,209 {2022};2,878{19}; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597; 1,496; 1,488)
Cork - 4,574 (3,517 FD; 2,505; 4,245; 4,559; 2,533; 3,263; 3,777; 1,965; 2,786; 2,128 FD)
Derry - 3,489 (3,184; 2,049; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446; 1,460; 2,135)
Drogheda - 2,062 (1,941; 721 FD; ; 377 FD; 850; 583 FD; 813; 1,064; 817; 977; 811)
Dundalk - 2,974 (2,689; 2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997; 949; 1,355)
Pat's - 4,442 (3,489; 1,919; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687; 1,474; 1,346)
Rovers - 5,948 (5,379; 3,384; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763; 3,127; 3,779)
Shels - 3,234 (2,913; 1,071 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114; 1,187; 781 FD)
Sligo - 3,083 (2,166; 1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342; 3,007; 2,103)
UCD - 768 (953; 739; 365 FD; 236 FD; 297 FD; 216 FD; 397; 487; 506; 558; 610)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 829 (307; 382; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754; 271; 200)
Bray - 782 (482; 773; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD; 965 PD; 1,121 PD)
Cobh - 1,285 (872; 268; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439; 2008 - 1,122 PD; 681)
Galway - 2,487 (2,081; 780; 746; 1,376 PD; 1,169 PD; 1,290 PD; 975)
Harps - 1,498 (1,293 PD; 1,154 PD; 708; 1,202 PD; 1,216 PD; 784; 449; 479; 429; 433; 644)
Kerry - 1,140 (No previous)
Longford - 742 (500; 610; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379; 365; 315)
Treaty - 774 (695)
Waterford - 2,211 (1,705; 1,496 PD; 2,329 PD; 1,550; 314; 460; 470; 478; 453; 466)
Wexford - 841 (445; 235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227; 302; 216)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 3,443 (2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 1,260 (1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,395 (2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)


OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 223,786 (486,365; 393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 75,579 (178,000; 79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)

OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 299,365 (664,365; 472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)

Interesting in those averages to-date is UCD having the second lowest attendance of all 20 clubs across the LOI's 2 divisions (and only 26 people above Longford's average in bottom place). The next lowest attendance to UCD in the PD is almost 3 times what the Students atttract. And that's despite them beihg a handy away trip for teams in the Dublin area.

[EatYerGreens]

7864 in tallaght which is a stadium record I think. Fair play to the club their was a standby line outside while the crowd settled down inside and some extras were let in .

You could see this fixture attracting up to 10,000 on a good day, with both clubs doing well and available capacity to hold it. It'll be interesting to see what crowd the fixture on 1st September gets when the new stand is open.

[2 Year Contract]

7864 in tallaght which is a stadium record I think.
I checked this out of interest and the Real Madrid game is down as a 10,915 sell out with the temporary stands.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/late-madrid-winner-shatters-hoops-dreams/26552465.html#:~:text=THE%20€400m%20men%20came,cro wd%20at%20the%20Tallaght%20Stadium.

I’d imagine Fridays attendance is the biggest in the stadium since the permanent ones were build though

[EatYerGreens]

Interesting in those averages to-date is UCD having the second lowest attendance of all 20 clubs across the LOI's 2 divisions (and only 26 people above Longford's average in bottom place). The next lowest attendance to UCD in the PD is almost 3 times what the Students atttract. And that's despite them beihg a handy away trip for teams in the Dublin area.

Apologies - the above post was re the averages up to the previous round of games. The latest average keeps UCD at 768, but has Bray and Treaty a bit below them as well now (though not by much).

[John83]

It's a fairly unique proposition for fans. The obvious fanbase are students, who largely go home for the weekend. (And yes, they tried Thursday games once upon a time.) There's no big US-style culture of supporting the college teams. Turnover means most fans are transitory. Nearly no one's dad brought them to Belfield as a nipper; in fact, Miltown's proximity means Rovers traditionally ate our dinner on that front, and the region of Dublin is probably the most rugby-friendly. It's not necessarily intractable. If the league were to become a bit bigger in the national psyche, it'd make league matches more interesting for students.

[Buller]

I checked this out of interest and the Real Madrid game is down as a 10,915 sell out with the temporary stands.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/late-madrid-winner-shatters-hoops-dreams/26552465.html#:~:text=THE%20€400m%20men%20came,cro wd%20at%20the%20Tallaght%20Stadium.

I’d imagine Fridays attendance is the biggest in the stadium since the permanent ones were build though

It's the biggest League of Ireland attendance at the stadium I think, Real Madrid being a friendly.

[pineapple stu]

If the league were to become a bit bigger in the national psyche, it'd make league matches more interesting for students.
And arguably that's happening to a small extent, as a couple of other (non UCD) posters have noted.

[Martinho II]

I didnt realise that our home gate average is bottom in LOI. It used to be Athlone town thats a bolt from the blue!

[Jamesie]

7864 in tallaght which is a stadium record I think. Fair play to the club their was a standby line outside while the crowd settled down inside and some extras were let in .

Here, they're called QUEUES in this part of the world!

[legendz]

Thats it for the year. There will be no more Senior Hurling or Football games played in Cork for the rest of the year. Incorrect. Cork v Kerry on the June Bank Holiday weekend.

[oriel]

You could see this fixture attracting up to 10,000 on a good day, with both clubs doing well and available capacity to hold it. It'll be interesting to see what crowd the fixture on 1st September gets when the new stand is open.

Not linked to LOI, but just wondering EYG if you knew reasons why the Irish FA cup final attendance was so low last week, 9,688?

Seems a very small crowd for the NI showpiece final.

[EalingGreen]

Not linked to LOI, but just wondering EYG if you knew reasons why the Irish FA cup final attendance was so low last week, 9,688?

Seems a very small crowd for the NI showpiece final.EYG will likely be more ITK than me, but the bare statistics suggest that whether "very small" or no, the crowd may still have been up with expectations?

This season Crusaders (1,607) and Ballymena (1,258) have had the 6th and 7th highest crowds respectively in the division. While last season's final between the two teams attracted 7,598 i.e. this year saw a 27% increase.

By contrast, this season's League Cup Final between Linfield and Coleraine drew 11,038. Obviously both teams have bigger support (LFC = 2,959, CFC = 2,748), but still, the LC is not so prestigious as the IC, nor does the winner qualify for Europe (IC winner does). I believe one of the reasons the LC Final has been drawing decent crowds recently may be because the NIFL is doing a better job of promoting it than the IFA does for the IC Final?

Anyhow, more general stuff here:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/football/northern-ireland-football-league-announce-10-increase-in-premiership-attendances-4135608

[El-Pietro]

Incorrect. Cork v Kerry on the June Bank Holiday weekend.

Honestly I thought Cork were out of the Football Championship, I don't follow it closely at all.

[Nesta99]

I find that Linfield average as despairingly low for the biggest club in NI. ive seen their corporate strategies and they were impressive and ambitious but surely there is a lot of scope to increase thei average gates. Arguably easier for provincial clubs like Coleraine to incrementally build attendances though. Is playing the IC Final in Windsor an absolute must? If eg the Oval was developed to 10k capacity ground, among others, and the final will attract less than 10k, it makes a huge difference in the occaison to play in front of a near sellout than a very empty national stadium. From experience, Dundalk playing the FAI Cup Final in Landsdowne in 1993 in a largely empty stadium was awful even if we had won. Compared to 10 years later playing in front of a similar sized crowd but filling Tolka and it is one of the most memorable finals (relegated the week before even). Now of course crowds of 20k+ in the Aviva, with year on year growth bar the 1st final held there and the novelty factor boosting the crowd, attendances are sufficient to both justify using the National Stadium and generate some great atmospheres over the years of the annual Dundalk v Cork finals ear, and subsequent finals - well there is a feel good factor that the atmosphere is a catalyst for attendance growth. If IL Cup stepped back from Windsor and in to a ground where the atmosphere was white hot, it could lead to demand that would need a Windsor sized ground at some point - the event becomig a showpiece for all fans rather than just the 2 finalists?
Itd be a break from tradition which is a hard sell in NI in general but if Solitude is redeveloped and expanded as the home of Irish football it could tick a box or 2 on that.

[EalingGreen]

I find that Linfield average as despairingly low for the biggest club in NI. ive seen their corporate strategies and they were impressive and ambitious but surely there is a lot of scope to increase thei average gates.
Agree it's crap, esp for the self-styled "Biggest Club in Ireland (In Our Big, Fat Empty Heads)"

I'm not close to it by any means, but I believe part of the problem this season is that they had a very poor start to the season, with the grumbling starting early. And although they finished strongly to put in a challenge to Larne - almost - they've probably been sated by success, and weren't prepared to tolerate "failure". You know, by actually turning up and supporting the team.


Arguably easier for provincial clubs like Coleraine to incrementally build attendances though.
Many suspect their official attendances are inflated eg by counting ST holders whether they attend or not, with kids ST's being especially cheap. Nonetheless CFC are doing a great job if they are getting close to nearly 3k in a town of 24k. Afaik they have established great links with the local community and businesses etc and have very impressive plans to redevelop the Showgrounds, funding permitting.



Is playing the IC Final in Windsor an absolute must? If eg the Oval was developed to 10k capacity ground, among others, and the final will attract less than 10k, it makes a huge difference in the occaison to play in front of a near sellout than a very empty national stadium.
Fraid so. For if nothing else, the Irish Cup is an IFA competition, and the IFA (effectively) own* WP.

As for The Oval, if/when the idiots at Stormont ever should get their heads from out of their arses and stump up the money which has been promised for over a decade, then who knows what plans the IFA might have? Though I still doubt the IC Final would ever be played there. Perhaps if Linfield were playing some small provincial club like Dungannon or Newry?


* - I believe that technically, Linfield may retain the Freehold?



If IL Cup stepped back from Windsor and in to a ground where the atmosphere was white hot, it could lead to demand that would need a Windsor sized ground at some point - the event becomig a showpiece for all fans rather than just the 2 finalists?
To some extent, but sadly I fear that IL club fans are very "tribal", in every sense of the word. :(


Itd be a break from tradition which is a hard sell in NI in general but if Solitude is redeveloped and expanded as the home of Irish football it could tick a box or 2 on that.
I'd love to see that happen, but unless I'm missing something, there doesn't appear to be the same stadium drive at Cliftonville as we see at one or two other clubs. (Though tbf, on the playing front they are going to go "hybrid full-time".)

[oriel]

EYG will likely be more ITK than me, but the bare statistics suggest that whether "very small" or no, the crowd may still have been up with expectations?

This season Crusaders (1,607) and Ballymena (1,258) have had the 6th and 7th highest crowds respectively in the division. While last season's final between the two teams attracted 7,598 i.e. this year saw a 27% increase.

By contrast, this season's League Cup Final between Linfield and Coleraine drew 11,038. Obviously both teams have bigger support (LFC = 2,959, CFC = 2,748), but still, the LC is not so prestigious as the IC, nor does the winner qualify for Europe (IC winner does). I believe one of the reasons the LC Final has been drawing decent crowds recently may be because the NIFL is doing a better job of promoting it than the IFA does for the IC Final?

Anyhow, more general stuff here:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/football/northern-ireland-football-league-announce-10-increase-in-premiership-attendances-4135608

These are still desperately disappointing figures for the showpiece final, I remember being at an FAI Cup in 1987 in Dalymount, Dundalk v Sham Rovers, less than 10k at (8,569 per google !!!) but that was a low point, there were some poor crowds while Aviva was being built, Tallaght and RDS, but the move to the Aviva seemed to kick start things.


The concern I would have for NI league is you have heard all year about the % increases in league games, yet less than 10k turn up to the main cup final.

Aviva FAI Cup Finals, mind you disappointing turn out for 2020 !

2010 Sligo Rovers 0 – 0 (a.e.t.) 2 – 0 (pen.) Shamrock Rovers Aviva Stadium 36,101
2011 Sligo Rovers 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 4 – 1 (pen.) Shelbourne Aviva Stadium 21,662
2012 Derry City 3 – 2 (a.e.t.) St. Patrick's Athletic Aviva Stadium 16,117
2013 Sligo Rovers 3–2 Drogheda United Aviva Stadium 17,573
2014 St. Patrick's Athletic 2–0 Derry City Aviva Stadium 17,038
2015 Dundalk 1 – 0 (a.e.t.) Cork City Aviva Stadium 25,103
2016 Cork City 1 – 0 (a.e.t.) Dundalk Aviva Stadium 26,400
2017 Cork City 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 5 – 3 (pen.) Dundalk Aviva Stadium 24,210
2018 Dundalk 2–1 Cork City Aviva Stadium 30,412
2019 Shamrock Rovers 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 4 – 2 (pen.) Dundalk Aviva Stadium 33,111
2020 Dundalk 4 – 2 (a.e.t.) Shamrock Rovers Aviva Stadium 0*
2021 St. Patrick's Athletic 1 – 1 (a.e.t.) 4 – 3 (pen.) Bohemians Aviva Stadium 37,126
2022 Derry City 4–0 Shelbourne Aviva Stadium 32,412

*Covid

[JC_GUFC]

Big drop off, surprised how loud MH Park can be when the home fans get excited though, made a real racket when they scored the two goals Friday.

That's good to hear. Even when they took the lead against us it was a bit dead.

Obviously the whole thing is new to them and it's not like GAA where Kerry are scoring a point every few minutes!

Their game against us was the first crowd to dip below 1k and now another bit of a drop but realistically when they're losing pretty much every game the crowds are still good.

The first time I went (against Harps) I was surprised at how many young people and families were in the main stand.

[EalingGreen]

These are still desperately disappointing figures for the showpiece final...

... the move to the Aviva seemed to kick start things.

The concern I would have for NI league is you have heard all year about the % increases in league games, yet less than 10k turn up to the main cup final.

I feel that all things considered, IL crowds hold up quite well when compared with LOI crowds, both in absolute and precentage increases terms.

But I agree that your cup final crowds leave the NI equivalent far behind. I'm not sure why, but I can think of two possible contributory factors.
1. Moving the FAI Cup Final to the AVIVA may have created a sense of "occasion" which we don't get with the IC Final. That is, with the other clubs already playing at Windsor 2 or 3 times a season, then trotting along for another game at the end of the season isn't such a big deal, for casual or neutral fans at least.
Whereas some LOI fans, or their mates/families etc may never actually attend the AVIVA if they don't also attend internationals. And I don't mean to disparage anyone, but I sometimes hear that some fans of the ROI football and Ireland rugby teams are "event junkies" i.e. happy for an excuse for a day out in Dublin. This may be overstated, and certainly shouldn't be a criticism of regular LOI fans etc, but maybe some (emphasise) LOI fans are a bit the same? For I think it fair to say that whatever else, fans of IL clubs are hardly event junkies or bandwaggoners!

2. The last two NI League Cup Finals have both attracted higher crowds (11,103 and 11,038) than the IC Final, which shouldn't ordinarily be the case. Now granted all three participants, Cliftonville, Linfield and Coleraine, have bigger fanbases than Crues and Ballymena. Nonetheless, I suspect the NIFL may have done a better job than the IFA of promoting their respective event. While both ILC finals were on a Sunday, which if not unknown for games in NI, is still unusual. I wonder whether fans who are involved in junior football themselves, and who therefore cannot attend a senior game on a Saturday in March, were now encouraged to go along on a Sunday?

Anyhow, while IC Final crowds are undoubtedly low, why do you think FAI Cup Finals have been so good?

EDIT: Just realised that this years ICF was also on a Sunday, so maybe that blows Theory No.2 out of the water! Doh!

[sadloserkid]

I think FAI Cup finals do pick up a lot of neutrals - be that other LOI fans (I go most years as an example) but also I know several people who don't have an LOI club and go to the final every year. It doesn't explain the boost to numbers in the last few years of course but I think that's becoming a bit of a snowball down a hill now too - people go, have a great day with a genuine athmosphere and are more inclined to repeat the experience.

[EalingGreen]

I think FAI Cup finals do pick up a lot of neutrals - be that other LOI fans (I go most years as an example) but also I know several people who don't have an LOI club and go to the final every year. It doesn't explain the boost to numbers in the last few years of course but I think that's becoming a bit of a snowball down a hill now too - people go, have a great day with a genuine athmosphere and are more inclined to repeat the experience.Very interesting. Have we been seeing the start of a "new tradition" in LOI football?

I am reminded of the Steel & Sons Cup Final in NI. This is a competition for intermediate teams, run by the Co.Antrim FA since 1895. The Final is traditionally held on Christmas Day morning at Seaview (Crusaders), with the likes of Dundela, Newington, East Belfast, Scirocco Works in recent finals, also the Reserve teams of Linfield, Glens, Cliftonville etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_%26_Sons_Cup

Thing is, the final regularly attracts a crowd in the low four figures, even when it involves teams who ordinarily struggle to attract 3 figure crowds for their league games. This is because there is a hardy band of football fans who attend regardless of who's playing, to meet up with old pals and enjoy a pint or two in the social club and set them up for the turkey and trifle later in the day. The football is just a bonus, if not a distraction!

Anyhow, it shows just how football fans are creatures of habit, with a warm respect for tradition - the game's Administrators take note.

[Nesta99]

Aviva 'experience' is just over a decade on the go though. Prior to that league grounds for FAI Cup Finals still comparable or better attendances. I do agree though, that there is a neutral contingent at cup finals especially since held in the Aviva. I make use of the posh tickets at cup finals that i wouldnt fork out pretty silly money for at internationals. Group of us put money together for a corporate box one year for the cup final and raffled it off for charity - a lot of small things that add up to decent cup final crowds eg affordability.

[JC_GUFC]

I feel that all things considered, IL crowds hold up quite well when compared with LOI crowds, both in absolute and precentage increases terms.

But I agree that your cup final crowds leave the NI equivalent far behind. I'm not sure why, but I can think of two possible contributory factors.
1. Moving the FAI Cup Final to the AVIVA may have created a sense of "occasion" which we don't get with the IC Final. That is, with the other clubs already playing at Windsor 2 or 3 times a season, then trotting along for another game at the end of the season isn't such a big deal, for casual or neutral fans at least.

Definitely think this is a factor. I've gone to a few Irish Cup finals but as you say going to Windsor isn't particularly special for me because that's also where I go for Linfield games,





Whereas some LOI fans, or their mates/families etc may never actually attend the AVIVA if they don't also attend internationals. And I don't mean to disparage anyone, but I sometimes hear that some fans of the ROI football and Ireland rugby teams are "event junkies" i.e. happy for an excuse for a day out in Dublin. This may be overstated, and certainly shouldn't be a criticism of regular LOI fans etc, but maybe some (emphasise) LOI fans are a bit the same? For I think it fair to say that whatever else, fans of IL clubs are hardly event junkies or bandwaggoners!



Not overstated at all! Ireland is an incredible nation of bandwagon jumpers. GAA fans are probably the most loyal in the country but for inter-county games there are only a handful of away trips a year. All-Ireland semi-finals never sell out but for finals tickets can be like hen's teeth!





2. The last two NI League Cup Finals have both attracted higher crowds (11,103 and 11,038) than the IC Final, which shouldn't ordinarily be the case. Now granted all three participants, Cliftonville, Linfield and Coleraine, have bigger fanbases than Crues and Ballymena. Nonetheless, I suspect the NIFL may have done a better job than the IFA of promoting their respective event. While both ILC finals were on a Sunday, which if not unknown for games in NI, is still unusual. I wonder whether fans who are involved in junior football themselves, and who therefore cannot attend a senior game on a Saturday in March, were now encouraged to go along on a Sunday?

Anyhow, while IC Final crowds are undoubtedly low, why do you think FAI Cup Finals have been so good?

EDIT: Just realised that this years ICF was also on a Sunday, so maybe that blows Theory No.2 out of the water! Doh!


There definitely does seem to be a thing that NIFL are promoting the League Cup much better than the IFA promote the cup final. On Social Media in the fortnight up to the League Cup final I was seeing ads every day. Very little for the Cup Final.


A couple of other points... Probably the FAI have been lucky enough with recent finalists, quite often the top teams in the league (so support has been big during the season) and quite a few Dublin clubs, Bohs, Pat's, Shels and Rovers have all been at recent cup finals.

I think if you ended up with a Dundalk v Galway United final this year, for example, the crowd may only just go beyond 15k.

Finally the cheap tickets really seem to have worked out well. I think it's still only a tenner (maybe it was 15 last year) to go to it. I usually go to the Premium tickets and you see fans of all teams and loads of players there. It's kind of a real celebration of the end of the season really. To be fair to the FAI they have done a great job on that (and that goes back to the 'old' leadership).

[EalingGreen]

Finally the cheap tickets really seem to have worked out well. I think it's still only a tenner (maybe it was 15 last year) to go to it. I usually go to the Premium tickets and you see fans of all teams and loads of players there. It's kind of a real celebration of the end of the season really. To be fair to the FAI they have done a great job on that (and that goes back to the 'old' leadership).
How much are tickets to LOI or FAI Cup games?

For information, next year's IL prices have just been announced:
"The price for tickets at every Sports Direct Premiership game next season has been agreed, with adult tickets costing £13 and a child ticket costing £9.

That is a £1 increase from last season, which NIFL claims is 'balanced against the financial climate for supporters'.

Clubs will still be able to run promotions for selected games that will be available to both home and away fans, while they have also committed to combatting the abuse of concession tickets, particularly at all-ticket fixtures."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/irish-league/european-play-off-final-to-kick-off-an-hour-earlier-as-glentoran-and-cliftonville-agree-to-switch/650050389.html

I assume these are cheaper than in ROI, while IL clubs' revenues from ticket sales are further reduced by the 20% VAT levied (also Derry City).

One interesting point is about all-ticket fixtures. For not only do these inhibit impulse, on-the-day purchases (obv), but many such games will have been declared all-ticket for H&S and Security reasons, with maximum capacities set at unreasonably low levels, esp for away supporters, thereby leading to lower attendances than might otherwise be the case.

[Martinho II]

How much are tickets to LOI or FAI Cup games?

For information, next year's IL prices have just been announced:
"The price for tickets at every Sports Direct Premiership game next season has been agreed, with adult tickets costing £13 and a child ticket costing £9.

That is a £1 increase from last season, which NIFL claims is 'balanced against the financial climate for supporters'.

Clubs will still be able to run promotions for selected games that will be available to both home and away fans, while they have also committed to combatting the abuse of concession tickets, particularly at all-ticket fixtures."
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/irish-league/european-play-off-final-to-kick-off-an-hour-earlier-as-glentoran-and-cliftonville-agree-to-switch/650050389.html

I assume these are cheaper than in ROI, while IL clubs' revenues from ticket sales are further reduced by the 20% VAT levied (also Derry City).

One interesting point is about all-ticket fixtures. For not only do these inhibit impulse, on-the-day purchases (obv), but many such games will have been declared all-ticket for H&S and Security reasons, with maximum capacities set at unreasonably low levels, esp for away supporters, thereby leading to lower attendances than might otherwise be the case.

EG for all LOI and FAI Cup games it was €15 last season for me a game. this season for the first time in a long while I got a season ticket maybe someone else might give a more accurate figure if things ave changed

[Dermobohs]

Bohs tickets are 15 in the des kelly and 20 in the Jodi, season tickets are 250€ and full membership( ie part ownership with voting rights) is 365 pa.

[legendz]

https://twitter.com/NIStats/status/1656605826528821248?t=xTyMsFSrjvMDIngDe20E-g&s=19

Comparison of LoI v IL attendances.