Attendances 2022

[EalingGreen]

They've toyed with a Summer league schedule in the north which keeps the St Stephen's Day derbies. It is possible, though would mean not avoiding a lot of the crap weather as a downside.
I think some of the bigger/f-t clubs are in favour of switching to a summer season, while also preserving Boxing Day, as you say. And at least part of their reasoning is to help them in Europe.

But I'm not sure the smaller clubs are so keen (if nothing else, unlikely to qualify for Europe themselves), while I'm pretty sure the IFA is opposed, since they've put a lot of work into creating a pyramid, so they won't want the two senior divisions cut-off from the Intermediate and Junior (winter) leagues beneath them.

Sound familiar? :wink:

Personally I'm opposed, but then again, I've long been a hoary old traditionalist. Though I would also point out that the IL's results in Europe have been pretty good for the last couple of seasons. Tbh, a summer season might help, but there's a whole lot more to competing in Europe than that i.e. greater all-round "professionalism" (both literally and figuratively).

Meanwhile, the introduction of the Europa Conference League may actually do more to help the IL clubs, since they should be able to compete better with that standard of club, most of whom also operate a winter league.

[EalingGreen]

Didn't expect Coleraine's figures to be so high, what's going on there?
Finlay Harp and DCSIL are doubtless better-placed than me to comment on recent developments (above), but the idea that somewhere is what I call "a proper football town", like eg Coleraine, is imo often hugely underestimated.

Something which LOI fans from eg Derry, Ballybofey and Sligo will surely understand!

[EalingGreen]

Sorry to drag this further off the topic of LOI attendances (Mods delete if you like), but there is no better illustration of the value of tradition than the Steel & Sons Cup Final, which is held in Belfast every Christmas Day morning!

Dating from 1895, this competition is for 3rd tier level clubs and below (includes IL Reserve teams), afaik this attracts healthy 3 figure crowds, even low four figures(?), depending on the participants! And for many football fans (not just of the participating clubs), popping along to the Steel Cup Final is as much a part of Christmas as turkey and presents!

Lovely article here: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/12/23/the-joy-of-christmas-day-football-is-alive-and-well-in-the-steel-and-sons-cup-final/

[El-Pietro]

Curious about this weeks figures. Looks like over 4k at the Cross.

[joey B]

Looks about 750/800 at UCD/Harps

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Stand about half full

[SPXcyan]

2372 at the RSC.

[DCSIL]

Sorry to drag this further off the topic of LOI attendances (Mods delete if you like), but there is no better illustration of the value of tradition than the Steel & Sons Cup Final, which is held in Belfast every Christmas Day morning!

Dating from 1895, this competition is for 3rd tier level clubs and below (includes IL Reserve teams), afaik this attracts healthy 3 figure crowds, even low four figures(?), depending on the participants! And for many football fans (not just of the participating clubs), popping along to the Steel Cup Final is as much a part of Christmas as turkey and presents!

Lovely article here: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/12/23/the-joy-of-christmas-day-football-is-alive-and-well-in-the-steel-and-sons-cup-final/

On my list to do a Steel and Sons Final.

[redarmyfaction]

Finlay Harp and DCSIL are doubtless better-placed than me to comment on recent developments (above), but the idea that somewhere is what I call "a proper football town", like eg Coleraine, is imo often hugely underestimated.

Something which LOI fans from eg Derry, Ballybofey and Sligo will surely understand!
There are times when there is more people in Finn Park then there is in the rest of Ballybofey, Harps support comes from all over Donegal though some parts are more garlicky than others.

[El-Pietro]

4,984 at Turners Cross.

[Finlay Harp]

Very impressive turnout in Cork.

[oriel]

4,984 at Turners Cross.

Absolutely outstanding, and what a miss they are from the PD.

[El-Pietro]

I believe we had 3500 sold ahead of time and we have less than 1k season ticket holders so its great to see. Don't expect us to maintain anything like that going forward. Good atmosphere tonight which will bring some back but performance was middling. Not bad, just not anything to write home about.

[2 Year Contract]

Good crowd at Richmond tonight. Main stand sold out and the entire steps in 3 of the sections were left with people standing on them for the 90 mins so probably a bit unsafe to be honest. Stand behind the goal full too and the camac was jammed. Shed end is set out for away fans but given that it wasn’t needed for Sligo fans it should’ve probably been opened to pats fans tonight given how packed everywhere else was

[Nesta99]

4,984 at Turners Cross.

Post Caulfield recovery starting in earnest?

[nigel-harps1954]

Good crowd at UCD tonight. Good traveling support as well. Hopefully the attendances can stay up about there.

[El-Pietro]

Post Caulfield recovery starting in earnest?
I wouldn't get overly excited. I think there was a lot of pent up demand after two years of restrictions. There is definitely more hope and expectation for this year's team though I think most agree we aren't outright favourites. The good weather and the 6 nil win will have helped.
Next home game is Cobh, I would hope for another good crowd for that game as its a pretty rare occurrence.

[Shinkicker]

Here are the opening home attendances for each of the 12 clubs, played over the last week in August/first 2 weeks in September, followed by their seasonal averages to date (brackets):

Portadown v Glenavon: 1,422 (1,003)
Larne v Coleraine: 1,934 (1,875)
W'point v Ballymena: 160 (396)
Linfield v Crusaders: 2,048 (2,812)
Dungannon v Glentoran: 1,178 (503)
Cliftonville v Carrick: 1,054 (1,670)
Carrick v Warrenpoint: 230 (515)
Glentoran v B'mena: 1.920 (2,598)
Glenavon v Carrick: 615 (900)
Ballymena v Glenavon: 972 (1,269)
Coleraine v Ballymena 3,183 (2,176)

Only 4 of the 12 exceeded their average on their season opener.

Tbh in NI at least, the attractiveness or otherwise of the opposition looks to count for far more in boosting/suppressing crowds than the date/time of year, i.e. local derbies (Portadown, Coleraine); or one of the Big Two coming to town (Dungannon).
In NI most games are played on Saturday as are all intermediate, amateur and junior games. If you play for a team you can't get to support you club.

[oriel]

Anyone have the crowd figures for the PD games last night, Bohs v DFC, Derry v Rovers, Pats v Sligo, Drogs v Shels ? (UCD v FH was 700-800 est)

Some turn out in the FD from Cork, Waterford and Cobh even.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Irish Times had 1,463 for Drogs game

[2 Year Contract]

Haven’t seen an official figure for Pats Sligo but it was comfortably around the 4,000 mark

[CorribsideSteve]

Anyone have the crowd figures for the PD games last night, Bohs v DFC, Derry v Rovers, Pats v Sligo, Drogs v Shels ? (UCD v FH was 700-800 est)

Some turn out in the FD from Cork, Waterford and Cobh even.

They announced 3235 for the Derry Shams game during commentary on RTE.

[ontheotherhand]

4,984 at Turners Cross.

Fair play. That's quality.

[sadloserkid]

Post Caulfield recovery starting in earnest?

Galway's pre-post Caulfield era will continue for some time yet if they keep gettings wins in places like Turners X.

[Nesta99]

It could be a post Galway era quick enough as its wins v the Waterfords that's likely to be more important than in Turners Cross. Top slot or bust for Caulfield as the play-offs have already been bottled by him with a vastly better resourced club and then there is the Premier League team to beat and any of the favourites to be in that position look equipped to cope based on some quality shown in this 1st round already.

[EatYerGreens]

They announced 3235 for the Derry Shams game during commentary on RTE.

Isn't the Brandywell capacity 3,300 ? So essentially a sell-out ?

To paraphrase Jaws - 'We're gonna need bigger stadia' around the LOI

[DCWA]

The game was sold out but there has been bigger attendances at the Brandywell before.

I believe the council are conducting a risk assessment on using the side of the MF stand for small number of standing tickets. Whilst people do congregate there at the minute it can’t officially be included in capacity or obviously by extension ticket sales.

I believe there was close to 4,000 for the league cup final against Dundalk 3(?) seasons ago now so there is scope for a little bit more.

However with Sligo tomorrow night now sold put as well it does highlight the disgrace that is the lack of progress on phase two of the development as capacity is approximately half what it should be.

[EatYerGreens]

The game was sold out but there has been bigger attendances at the Brandywell before.

I believe the council are conducting a risk assessment on using the side of the MF stand for small number of standing tickets. Whilst people do congregate there at the minute it can’t officially be included in capacity or obviously by extension ticket sales.

I believe there was close to 4,000 for the league cup final against Dundalk 3(?) seasons ago now so there is scope for a little bit more.

However with Sligo tomorrow night now sold put as well it does highlight the disgrace that is the lack of progress on phase two of the development as capacity is approximately half what it should be.

Would completely the Mark Farren Stamd really make Brandywell over a 6,500 capacity ? That would be immense.

[Buller]

You'll like get sold out signs for the rest of the season, especially if you're selling out on Mondays. 3200 capacity is nowhere near enough for a well supported club like Derry challenging at the top and in Europe.
Would renting or buying temporary seating be an option? Would definitely at the very least pay for itself, if allowed.

[Buller]

4,984 at Turners Cross.
That must be a first division record?! Phenomenal support.

[DCWA]

Would completely the Mark Farren Stamd really make Brandywell over a 6,500 capacity ? That would be immense.

A quick google of the phase two funding announcement from a few years ago probably needed to confirm this but I think it would capacity at about that aye

[Jd2793]

unreal crowd down in cork friday would go far as to say it looked like even more than was reported, not seen that amount of people in tc since start of 2018. If we had 2.5-3k a week for the season id be delighted . cant help but feel a late equaliser would have helped keep on to a few of the new people who came through the gates friday, but it wasnt to be.

[pineapple stu]

That must be a first division record?! Phenomenal support.

Derry City might have topped it back when they first joined?

[EatYerGreens]

Derry City might have topped it back when they first joined?

Easily. They were getting 10-12,000 at games. Some of their away games back then would probably have topped that Cork figure even.

[EalingGreen]

A quick google of the phase two funding announcement from a few years ago probably needed to confirm this but I think it would capacity at about that aye
When the £36m Sub-Regional Stadium funding was announced just over a decade ago, the talk was that Glentoran and DCFC would each get £10m from it.

That's still the story for Glentoran, which was/is to have an 8k capacity stadium capable of staging European games to UEFA Category 3:
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/glentoran-chairman-stephen-henderson-waited-21407121

And I'm pretty sure they had something very similar in mind for The RMcB Brandywell.

In the meantime, I think recent improvements were at least partly-funded by Derry & Strabane Council, possibly in anticipation of getting it back when the Sub-Regional funding finally came through?

Of course, I could be imagining that, except for this from this morning, curiously enough:
"This week, the Derry City and Strabane District Council unanimously passed a motion calling on the Department for Communities to open the Sub-Regional Stadia Programme for Soccer Fund before the end of the current Assembly mandate."
https://www.derrydaily.net/2022/02/27/felix-healy-derry-city-deserve-funding-to-redevelop-brandywell/

Meanwhile, it is entirely coincidental that when this funding was originally announced, the First Minister was Peter Robinson, MLA for East Belfast, and the Deputy First Minister was Martin McGuinness, MLA for Foyle.

[EatYerGreens]

When the £36m Sub-Regional Stadium funding was announced just over a decade ago, the talk was that Glentoran and DCFC would each get £10m from it.

I don't think that's correct EG. From memory, the figure for Derry was only about £3m? What would they do with £10m - build another Brandywell right beside the current one ? :o

[EalingGreen]

I don't think that's correct EG. From memory, the figure for Derry was only about £3m? What would they do with £10m - build another Brandywell right beside the current one ? :o
No, it was to be £10m - I mean, can you imagine the uproar if "themmuns in East Belfast" got £10m and "ussuns in Derry" only got £3m? :D

And this extract from a BBC report in 2015 stated the following:
"Combined funding from Derry city council and Stormont government departments means that around £10m will be spent on the overall project, although that is not quite finalised."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-30876684

I don't know how much of that sum was due from the Council - and it is their responsibility as stadium owners, after all - but I'm quite sure the thick end was/is due from Stormont.

As it happens, I suspect the recent upgrades at the RMcB Brandywell came from the Council tranche, meaning that the remainder from Stormont could be used to increase capacity significantly (up to 8k?).

[oriel]

Easily. They were getting 10-12,000 at games. Some of their away games back then would probably have topped that Cork figure even.

I remember going to a FD league game in Oriel Park in Nov 1986 when Monaghan asked to move their 'home' Derry game, there was def more than 5k at that one alone. I also recall their home crowds in FD being up to 12k.

[EatYerGreens]

No, it was to be £10m - I mean, can you imagine the uproar if "themmuns in East Belfast" got £10m and "ussuns in Derry" only got £3m? :D

And this extract from a BBC report in 2015 stated the following:
"Combined funding from Derry city council and Stormont government departments means that around £10m will be spent on the overall project, although that is not quite finalised."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-30876684

I don't know how much of that sum was due from the Council - and it is their responsibility as stadium owners, after all - but I'm quite sure the thick end was/is due from Stormont.

As it happens, I suspect the recent upgrades at the RMcB Brandywell came from the Council tranche, meaning that the remainder from Stormont could be used to increase capacity significantly (up to 8k?).

The work that's already been done to Brandywell was £7m. Out of a £10m TOTAL cost, that therefore leaves them looking for £3m from Stormont, as stated.

Work on £7m Brandywell redevelopment to be completed before end of the year - The Irish News (https://www.irishnews.com/business/2017/10/12/news/work-on-7m-brandywell-redevelopment-to-be-completed-before-end-of-the-year-1159649/)

Can you imagine the uproar from Irish League clubs if the majority of their stadium money went to the Glens and 'a club that don't even play in NI' ? :D

Also - where are you going to add 5,000 seats onto the Brandywell? Never mind with only £3m to do it.

[EalingGreen]

The work that's already been done to Brandywell was £7m. Out of a £10m TOTAL cost, that therefore leaves them looking for £3m from Stormont, as stated.

Work on £7m Brandywell redevelopment to be completed before end of the year - The Irish News (https://www.irishnews.com/business/2017/10/12/news/work-on-7m-brandywell-redevelopment-to-be-completed-before-end-of-the-year-1159649/)

Then that's the remaining £3m, then. (And I still think that the Council's £7m was predicated on their getting at least some of it back when the full allocation for DCFC came through from Stormont, though I accept I could be wrong about that).



Can you imagine the uproar from Irish League clubs if the majority of their stadium money went to the Glens and 'a club that don't even play in NI' ? :D

You misunderstand the "rationale" behind this funding. When the £140m(?) Maze project fell through, Stormont redirected funds to the three bodies for "Regional" Stadia - Windsor, Ravenhill and Casement.

This £36m we're talking about is the second phase of funding for "sub-Regional" stadia, that is, stadia further down at the next level. Meaning the bulk of the money was/is to go to mid-sized stadia in Belfast and Derry., capable of accommodating eg European club games, cup finals etc. As such, the Oval is the only one in Belfast with room to redevelop to that sort of size - I'd have imagined the Brandywell also, though I'm open to correction on that one.

And the other IL clubs had nothing to do with the decision - Stormont's money, Stormont's allocation. At which point I assure you, Messrs. Robinson and McGuinness will, shall we say, have taken a very keen interest! ;)



Also - where are you going to add 5,000 seats onto the Brandywell? Never mind with only £3m to do it.
Can't comment on that specifically, but the stadium "footprint" is very big, no? Besides, to take it eg to 8k, it would be nearer 4k, also not all the extra capacity may be seating - part standing could also help, whilst being cheaper to build.

[EatYerGreens]

Then that's the remaining £3m, then. (And I still think that the Council's £7m was predicated on their getting at least some of it back when the full allocation for DCFC came through from Stormont, though I accept I could be wrong about that).

If you think public funding anywhere works on the basis of one body spending money and then expecting it to be paid back by a higher authority in the future without any formal agreement to do so, then you clearly don't understand how public finances work. And I'd also like to borrow some money from you too on that basis :D


Can't comment on that specifically, but the stadium "footprint" is very big, no? Besides, to take it eg to 8k, it would be nearer 4k, also not all the extra capacity may be seating - part standing could also help, whilst being cheaper to build.

Serious question here - have you ever set foot in the Brandywell ? Because from the sounds of the above you don't seem to know the stadium at all.

[nigel-harps1954]

Recap of the weekends attendances then. Anyone able to fill in the gaps?

Cork v Galway - 4,984
Derry v Shamrock Rovers - 3,325
Waterford v Bray - 2,372
Drogheda v Shels - 1,463

Pats v Sligo - 4,000 est
UCD v Harps - 750 est

No figures from:

Bohs v Dundalk
Cobh v Wexford

[DCWA]

Serious question here - have you ever set foot in the Brandywell ? Because from the sounds of the above you don't seem to know the stadium at all.

That is an unfair and unnecessary retort - Ealing Green is entirely right in what is said - there is ample room in the Brandywell for it and a small amount of terracing could help boost capacity.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Recap of the weekends attendances then. Anyone able to fill in the gaps?

Cork v Galway - 4,984
Derry v Shamrock Rovers - 3,325
Waterford v Bray - 2,372
Drogheda v Shels - 1,463

Pats v Sligo - 4,000 est
UCD v Harps - 750 est

No figures from:

Bohs v Dundalk
Cobh v Wexford

698 in Cobh - league twitter account

[Buller]

I remember going to a FD league game in Oriel Park in Nov 1986 when Monaghan asked to move their 'home' Derry game, there was def more than 5k at that one alone. I also recall their home crowds in FD being up to 12k.

Wow. All before my time. I stand corrected and astounded!

[oriel]

I haven't seen the Pats figure (4k) confirmed anywhere, but on looking at photos, 3 main parts of the ground looked very well populated, looked a very decent crowd.

Surprised Bohs didn't give figure, mind you Dundalk didn't either v Derry, it really can't be that hard to provide, esp with so many ST sales by most clubs, all you need to do it count away then those who paid in on the day / other tickets.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dundalk, Pats, UCD, Athlone and Bray are all off the Christmas card list, as I've had to go with estimates from each of their first home games.

[EatYerGreens]

I haven't seen the Pats figure (4k) confirmed anywhere, but on looking at photos, 3 main parts of the ground looked very well populated, looked a very decent crowd.

Surprised Bohs didn't give figure, mind you Dundalk didn't either v Derry, it really can't be that hard to provide, esp with so many ST sales by most clubs, all you need to do it count away then those who paid in on the day / other tickets.

It should be a requirement of league membership that clubs have to issues attendance figures for every game.

[EatYerGreens]

That is an unfair and unnecessary retort - Ealing Green is entirely right in what is said - there is ample room in the Brandywell for it and a small amount of terracing could help boost capacity.

Firstly - EalingGreen has form on this. Like when he recently lectured everyone on here repeatedly about non-league football in Ireland in the context of the proposed new LOI 3rd tier. Which he clearly didn't have a clue about it, and just sloped away form the conversation when repeatedly challenged by a number o fpeople.

Secondly - He asserts that Brandywell's stadium footprint is "very big". It isn't. He also said the Brandywell could easily have its capacity increased to 8,000. That isn't true either. There is the proposed extension of the Mark Farren Stand, which is well known and therefore priced into these discussions already. That would add something like 2,000 max ? Then there is the area behind one goal where a small amount of additional terracing could be created (although there might be an issue with a retaining wall there). The end behnd the other goal can't be used to increase capacity as it is used for people to access the stadium, and it also has the greyhound track cutting into it (look at an aerial picture of the Branywell and you'll see what I mean).

So where are thousands more people going to be accommodated at the Brandywell beyond the Mark Farren Stand ?

[Nesta99]

Wow. All before my time. I stand corrected and astounded!

I remember being completely overawed by the Derry support as a kid back then and even the following few seasons where Dundalk fans were massively outnumbered at home.