Gavin Bazunu G Standard Liege (loan from Southampton) b.2002

[Trequartista20]

we've only been in the lead three times in Kenny's reign so far - Serbia, Andorra, and Portugal - and we lost two of those games.

Thanks Tets. I did wonder, and it's an interesting point to consider

Marc Vale scored first for Andorra when they took a shock league against in that match, of course.

[TonyD]

Thanks Tets. I did wonder, and it's an interesting point to consider

Marc Vale scored first for Andorra when they took a shock league against in that match, of course.

I do think it’s important that we get our noses in front in the next games against Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. I can’t help feeling that an element of panic and “oh no, not again” set in. When we lost the goal to Azerbaijan in particular. We need to take the lead in one of those games and kick on from there.

[paul_oshea]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pompey/status/1436985434999910406?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1436985434999910406%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.the42.ie%2Fbazunu-labelled-different-class-by-portsmouth-skipper-after-another-impressive-display-5547280-Sep2021%2F

High praise from the manager

[osarusan]

Didn't cover himself in glory at all yesterday for the first and second goals. The second is a rare error as he's an excellent shot-stopper, but the first is a symptom of his tendency to misjudge what he should come for or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ej-viW1L0

[Diggs246]

Didn't cover himself in glory at all yesterday for the first and second goals. The second is a rare error as he's an excellent shot-stopper, but the first is a symptom of his tendency to misjudge what he should come for or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ej-viW1L0

Harsh on the first one. The cross was excellent
2nd one was a disaster

[pineapple stu]

Don't think a cross can hang in the six-yard-box that long without it being keeper's ball tbh. No-one challenging either. It looks like he misjudged the flight of it

[seanfhear]

Didn't cover himself in glory at all yesterday for the first and second goals. The second is a rare error as he's an excellent shot-stopper, but the first is a symptom of his tendency to misjudge what he should come for or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ej-viW1L0
Oh Dear; On the second one.

[elatedscum]

First goal, I think a more experienced keeper, say a premier league starter, is normally tracking that ball and at the very least getting a finger tip to it to push it out to the sideline, probably for a throw. I wouldn’t go so far to say it’s his fault but if he progresses, 3 years from now, it wouldn’t be a goal.

Second goal, similarly, inexperience. In fairness to him, I think it deflects off the defenders shoulder. Hard to see with that angle but that makes the ball move and perhaps wrong foots him a little and puts a load of spin on the ball. A more experienced might handle the shot differently. Not sure it was really travelling quick enough to punch. He kinda drops it onto his foot. I’ve noticed he regularly does things like a little spill here and there or a little misjudgement but he’s got such incredible reactions and speed of movement that he can recover quicker than any keeper I’ve seen. They’ll probably fade a little as he ages and fills out.

Third goal wasn’t his fault, and it’s difficult to judge but if he came he would have beaten the attacker to the ball. The attacker heads it at the six yard box. He probably only has 2 yards to move from where he starts out.

There was talk on the kelleher thread of him one day replacing Ederson, I do feel that Ederson would have handled all three goals. It’s a really high bar and he’s still a teenager but it’s days like that that show you how far he has to go - and also illustrate that Kelleher, Travers and Randolph all have a shout to be our best keeper right now.

Hard to drop him when he’s been faultless for ireland but he’s just one of four talented keepers

[Olé Olé]

There was talk on the kelleher thread of him one day replacing Ederson, I do feel that Ederson would have handled all three goals. It’s a really high bar and he’s still a teenager but it’s days like that that show you how far he has to go - and also illustrate that Kelleher, Travers and Randolph all have a shout to be our best keeper right now.


He is 19. Of course he has a long way to go. Whatever about Ederson handling all three goals- that is irrelevant. The question is whether 19 year old Ederson that was a sub at Rio Ave would have handled all three. I'm sure that Ederson had bad days too.

And I agree that the other lads have a shout to be our first choice. But he is in possession of the Irish jersey and hasn't given Kenny any reason to deprive him of it for Ireland.

[ifk101]

He's still learning and aspects of his game need ironing out. Probably should be getting a tip on the ball for the first goal. And bad mistake for the second goal but quick reaction to pounce from which two defenders have a chance to clear.

[pineapple stu]

Hard to drop him when he’s been faultless for ireland but he’s just one of four talented keepers
He's been far from faultless for Ireland in fairness. I'm every game bar Serbia at home and the 45 against Hungary, he's had a blunder of that calibre. He's just been lucky enough that it's never cost a goal.

Obviously he's only 19 and learning fast, but may as well call out the errors when they happen

[tetsujin1979]

against Serbia at home, he needed a dig out from McClean after he came way out of his area to claim the ball

[Stuttgart88]

He's made a handling mistake or error of judgment in every game except the Azerbaijan away game and got away with them all. I'm fine with that. The lad clearly has bundles of talent and has a great habit of making big saves at big moments. Travers made one error and got punished, that's football. I think he was all at sea in the first half in Belgrade though when Tadic's corners caused real trouble. Bazunu has the jersey and until he costs us a game or two I'm fine with that. There's never any counter-factual argument that Kelleher or Travers will be better. Bazunu has been tested a few times at this level now and passed with distinction.

[Diggs246]

He's made a handling mistake or error of judgment in every game except the Azerbaijan away game and got away with them all. I'm fine with that. The lad clearly has bundles of talent and has a great habit of making big saves at big moments. Travers made one error and got punished, that's football. I think he was all at sea in the first half in Belgrade though when Tadic's corners caused real trouble. Bazunu has the jersey and until he costs us a game or two I'm fine with that. There's never any counter-factual argument that Kelleher or Travers will be better. Bazunu has been tested a few times at this level now and passed with distinction.

Here is a question
if Allison gets seriously injured and kelleher does a v good job for Liverpool for a couple of months. do we stick with Gavin?

[seanfhear]

He's been far from faultless for Ireland in fairness. I'm every game bar Serbia at home and the 45 against Hungary, he's had a blunder of that calibre. He's just been lucky enough that it's never cost a goal.

Obviously he's only 19 and learning fast, but may as well call out the errors when they happen
So far he has been a lucky Goal Keeper for us. He has got away with mistakes an unlucky Goal Keeper would not have got away with. He had better keep being lucky for us or get better. There is some promising competition out there.

[seanfhear]

Here is a question
if Allison gets seriously injured and kelleher does a v good job for Liverpool for a couple of months. do we stick with Gavin?
~ ~ No. ~ ~

[pineapple stu]

He's made a handling mistake or error of judgment in every game except the Azerbaijan away game and got away with them all. I'm fine with that.
I thought he was all over the place for that shot he tipped onto the bar in the second half. Should have been a straightforward tip over the bar but he flapped at it and was very lucky.

Agree with the rest of your analysis alright, but don't see the harm in calling the errors out though.

[Stuttgart88]

Here is a question
if Allison gets seriously injured and kelleher does a v good job for Liverpool for a couple of months. do we stick with Gavin?It depends on how well Gavin keeps doing!

In reality we don't have much to compare each other on. Kelleher impressed me in Budapest, arguably the better of two good performances. Saved a pen at Norwich but arguably flapped at the first shot. Swept very well.

My own view is that if Kelleher was given a run in the side from now on in we'd also see some mistakes. Can he take or read high balls for example?

I've a feeling Kelleher will soon get a chance to keep the shirt though.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought he was all over the place for that shot he tipped onto the bar in the second half. Should have been a straightforward tip over the bar but he flapped at it and was very lucky.

Agree with the rest of your analysis alright, but don't see the harm in calling the errors out though.I think you've got to judge these saves in real time. Looked a bit clumsy in slow mo but in real time he did what was needed.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the save from Mitrovic with his foot was simply brilliant btw.

[pineapple stu]

I think you've got to judge these saves in real time. Looked a bit clumsy in slow mo but in real time he did what was needed.
But he only did what was needed because he got lucky and the ball hit the bar on the opposite side of the goal.

I think the reality is it was an unnecessarily clumsy save that he got very lucky from. Just touch the ball over and be done with it

[ifk101]

I think the save from Mitrovic with his foot was simply brilliant btw.

Also made a decent save that stopped Azerbaijan going 2up on us, and kept Kenny in the job with that save. Time will tell how important that save ultimately proves to be.

[ifk101]

But he only did what was needed because he got lucky and the ball hit the bar on the opposite side of the goal.

I think the reality is it was an unnecessarily clumsy save that he got very lucky from. Just touch the ball over and be done with it

Is there reason for it being "unnecessarily clumsy"? He seemed to get ahead of the direction of the ball. He would not purposely do that - so perhaps there was an unexpected swerve or his line of vision was momentarily blocked. But he kept it out regardless.

[sbgawa]

Would be hard for Kenny to leave Kelleher out if he was starting every weak for Liverpool but the reality is he will be back on the bench for the foreseeable once Allison is available.
In the absence of Kelleher playing games it would be harsh for Kenny to drop Bazunu in the absence of some obvious goal conceding errors (Not conceding due to luck is easy to forgive) given he has dug Kenny out of a hole at times.

[Kingdom]

First goal, I think a more experienced keeper, say a premier league starter, is normally tracking that ball and at the very least getting a finger tip to it to push it out to the sideline, probably for a throw. I wouldn’t go so far to say it’s his fault but if he progresses, 3 years from now, it wouldn’t be a goal.

Second goal, similarly, inexperience. In fairness to him, I think it deflects off the defenders shoulder. Hard to see with that angle but that makes the ball move and perhaps wrong foots him a little and puts a load of spin on the ball. A more experienced might handle the shot differently. Not sure it was really travelling quick enough to punch. He kinda drops it onto his foot. I’ve noticed he regularly does things like a little spill here and there or a little misjudgement but he’s got such incredible reactions and speed of movement that he can recover quicker than any keeper I’ve seen. They’ll probably fade a little as he ages and fills out.

Third goal wasn’t his fault, and it’s difficult to judge but if he came he would have beaten the attacker to the ball. The attacker heads it at the six yard box. He probably only has 2 yards to move from where he starts out.

There was talk on the kelleher thread of him one day replacing Ederson, I do feel that Ederson would have handled all three goals. It’s a really high bar and he’s still a teenager but it’s days like that that show you how far he has to go - and also illustrate that Kelleher, Travers and Randolph all have a shout to be our best keeper right now.

Hard to drop him when he’s been faultless for ireland but he’s just one of four talented keepers

First reaction is pretty much what you allude to - as a decent cb, you're expecting your keeper, an experienced one at least, to deal with all 3 comfortably, even the third where a more powerful keeper comes and claims the ball, man and all.
It's easy criticism to throw at him to be fair, without saying that there is no merit to it, which there is of course. Again, as you say, it's what you hope he will learn from.

That said, he does appear to have shown a tendancy to lose crosses in at least 2 or 3 games he's played for us, even if it's only once in each game.

On the more speculative (on all our part, not yours) subject of long-term futures, I honestly think that Kelleher could be first choice for Liverpool the season after next. That potentially frees up 100m on spending on Liverpools part if Allison were to go Spain-side. That's a gut feeling, and probably has no basis in reality, but there is no doubt that he's making a huge impression on Klopp and Linjders. Two years time he's pushing 24/25, he won't be a kid anymore and would need to have some sort of plan for the future.

You can't have the same sort of discussion about Bazunu yet, he's two years younger, and it's a totally different operating model at City. and frankly, he doesn't need to have that kind of conversation yet, as long as he's getting good, quality loans that are appropriate for his development, and keep him in the discussion for the Ireland squad, as long as it's deserved.

Out of curiosity - who is the 4th quality keeper?

[Kingdom]

Here is a question
if Allison gets seriously injured and kelleher does a v good job for Liverpool for a couple of months. do we stick with Gavin?

It's a good question - and a very tough one to answer. I'd side with retaining Bazunu until the end of this qualifying campaign, and then reappraising - if the hypothetical situation developed as you wonder.

[pineapple stu]

Is there reason for it being "unnecessarily clumsy"? He seemed to get ahead of the direction of the ball. He would not purposely do that - so perhaps there was an unexpected swerve or his line of vision was momentarily blocked. But he kept it out regardless.
A swerve or deflection would explain it, but I don't think either happened.

I think taking his eye off the ball is more likely, and we've seen it before with that corner against Azerbaijan at home, and indeed the second goal in these highlights.

He kept it out, sure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an error. I think he's due to cost us a goal (if indeed he didn't already in Andorra)

Unfortunately keepers more than any other position get judged by their errors, so he needs to cut those out. And he's 19, so he has loads of time to do it. But I still think people get carried away with where he's at right now

[tetsujin1979]

Probably Randolph?
Maybe Sean McDermott?

[Kingdom]

Is there reason for it being "unnecessarily clumsy"? He seemed to get ahead of the direction of the ball. He would not purposely do that - so perhaps there was an unexpected swerve or his line of vision was momentarily blocked. But he kept it out regardless.

Isn't there a study floating around in the past 10 yrs wrt to teenage brain function and the increased clumsiness from 15-20 in general hand-to-eye coordination?
i'll try and dig it out.
It means we would likely see an end to that in Q2 2022.

[Kingdom]

Probably Randolph?
Maybe Sean McDermott?

Hence why I asked, I wouldn't classify either as quality, nor would I class the current 3 as quality either. They're in the 'massive potential' bracket, the aforementioned are in the adequately competent bracket.

[Diggs246]

Probably Randolph?
Maybe Sean McDermott?

Is mcderrmott a full time pro? ( no other job) I saw a few years back his club were do raffles to get a player they wanted. Its sounds very amateur

[ifk101]

A swerve or deflection would explain it, but I don't think either happened.

I think taking his eye off the ball is more likely, and we've seen it before with that corner against Azerbaijan at home, and indeed the second goal in these highlights.

He kept it out, sure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an error.

I think he was blinded by Duffy moving across a shot that swerved mid-air.

[Diggs246]

One thing we will ok agree on, is we are lucky to have these 2 young fellas.

[ifk101]

One thing we will ok agree on, is we are lucky to have these 2 young fellas.

Sure, and throw Travers into the mix as well. He has the same amount of Premiership appearances as Kelleher, and seems to established himself as first choice at a club topping the Championship.

[JR89]

Sure, and throw Travers into the mix as well. He has the same amount of Premiership appearances as Kelleher, and seems to established himself as first choice at a club topping the Championship.

Feel sorry for Travers. He's playing week in week out for probably the best team in the championship but is seen as third choice among the young keepers. Think he's showed more than enough so far this season to get a second chance in the senior team. Fair enough he was warming the bench himself when he last played for the seniors but he's established himself as first choice for probably the best team in the championship.

[pineapple stu]

I think he was blinded by Duffy moving across a shot that swerved mid-air.
The clip is below at 7:00. The second replay from behind the shot is best. The ball swerves, but not massively. I don't think Duffy is a factor. He's tried to swat it away and is very lucky it came off the bar instead of going into the net


https://youtu.be/28gtpb0opCY

[SkStu]

It's a good question - and a very tough one to answer. I'd side with retaining Bazunu until the end of this qualifying campaign, and then reappraising - if the hypothetical situation developed as you wonder.

I think it is a little easier to answer. The shirt is Gavin's. Kelleher getting regular football would have to coincide with Bazunu having a couple of dodgy/costly games for us (or his club form going completely down the drain i suppose). As an aside, neither of those look likely to happen in the short term.

[ifk101]

The clip is below at 7:00. The second replay from behind the shot is best. The ball swerves, but not massively. I don't think Duffy is a factor. He's tried to swat it away and is very lucky it came off the bar instead of going into the net


https://youtu.be/28gtpb0opCY

Yes the video shows a fast moving shot that swerves mid-air. It's not conclusive that Duffy blocks his vision but the video does show Duffy moving across the ball before Bazunu makes the save. We need to see it from Bazunu's positioning to be sure. But previously you have said


I think taking his eye off the ball is more likely

and


it was an unnecessarily clumsy save that he got very lucky from.

The video also shows Bazunu eyes fixed on the ball throughout the build-up play. Certainly from the sideline video angle he appears very focused, positioning is fine, and he does take a stance anticipating the shot. I agree there is awkwardness/ clumsiness to the save but is it unnecessarily clumsy for a reason - line of vision momentarily blocked for example?

[pineapple stu]

Well what happens in the build-up play is irrelevant; I'm suggesting he might have momentarily taken his eye off the ball during its flight. I think the way he goes at the ball, trying to swat it away, is very awkward and gives him little control over where the ball is going to end up, which is particularly why I think he got luck with it.

[SkStu]

Well what happens in the build-up play is irrelevant; I'm suggesting he might have momentarily taken his eye off the ball during its flight. I think the way he goes at the ball, trying to swat it away, is very awkward and gives him little control over where the ball is going to end up, which is particularly why I think he got luck with it.

whether his line of sight was blocked or he momentarily took his eye off the ball during its flight (though I am not sure that is actually physically possible given how quickly it all happened), he did what was needed to keep the ball out of the net. Which is what it is about for a keeper.

I thought at the time it was a good save and i still think it was.

[Razors left peg]

Theres a lot of nitpicking going on here with a 19 year old keeper. Hes not going to be perfect at this age, but hes miles ahead of where most other 19 year old keepers are.

[ontheotherhand]

If Kelleher was playing week in week out, we'd likely have plenty of mistakes to talk about as well. Unless he's faultless....but if we was...well...he'd be playing every week. Bazunu's getting the nod from those who see them both in training so I'd guess Kelleher has a few areas to improve on that we aren't all aware of. Either the belief is that Bazunu is better now, or that his ceiling is higher and it's worth putting him in now. Given Kenny's job has been on the line I'd imagine the former is a safer bet.

Travers has a fair shout to be ahead of Kelleher in the pecking order right now. Players need to play at these ages, that's how they learn from the mistakes they inevitably make. I know keepers are a bit different and Randolph did just fine for us without playing much at club level but he was developed at that point.

So to answer the above question, if Kelleher took over the #1 spot at Liverpool (or elsewhere at a high level) he'd be first choice for me assuming Gavin was still on loan in League 1 or similar. As of right now though, in my opinion, Bazunu has been fantastic for Ireland with the positives far outweighing the errors. Other 19 year olds in the team aren't coming under the same level of scrutiny and I honestly think it's a bit of a cop out to just say "well that's the nature of the beast with keepers". If we all know that, why can't we avoid the trap? Of course stu might tell me I'm biased and that's fair enough but I see things like Aldridge's article (https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/gavin-bazunu-has-done-well-for-ireland-but-caoimhin-kelleher-is-operating-at-a-different-level-40957512.html) (I hesitate to give it any attention as it's complete drivel) in the Independent over the weekend and wonder what the angle is at times.

And of course, just to bring us all to the middle ground we can agree on, why can't one of them just play up front?

[pineapple stu]

he did what was needed to keep the ball out of the net. Which is what it is about for a keeper.
But the point is that if you keep making mistakes, you won't keep getting lucky. The near penalty against Qatar, the fumble onto the post in Portugal, the dropped corner against Azerbaijan, the rush of blood at home to Luxembourg when Coleman bailed him out, and so on - they need to be removed from his game before you can say he's been "faultless" for Ireland (which was the point I was challenging)

I'm sure they will be removed in due course too.

[paul_oshea]

I don't know if it's inexperience as such, you learn what to do in the situation, which can just show a limitation in your ability. In keeping there's a very limited number of important skills, for example coming for crosses is one, which probably set given outside of the top keepers even though he was great for us.

I think all the keepers have issues and no one is or will have the complete set but kelleher for me seems to have improved the most in terms of old fashioned keeping, from what I have seen over the years. But Kenny like pep seems to want a keeper who can play ball as much or more so than doing the bread and butter stuff very well, so bazunu will be number 1 till that luck runs out

[third policeman]

Bazunu got the nod when Kelleher was injured, and fair enough he has performed well, but not faultlessly. If he was not on loan at present, would he be City’s number 2? Probably not, which answers the question as to which of them (in the judgement of two of the world’s best coaches) is further along in their career. I’m a Liverpool fan, so I am probably biased, but Kelleher looks more assured and confident. Bazunu is an outstanding talent, but at the minute he is prone to the odd lapse of concentration or judgement.

[liamoo11]

Bazunu got the nod when Kelleher was injured, and fair enough he has performed well, but not faultlessly. If he was not on loan at present, would he be City’s number 2? Probably not, which answers the question as to which of them (in the judgement of two of the world’s best coaches) is further along in their career. I’m a Liverpool fan, so I am probably biased, but Kelleher looks more assured and confident. Bazunu is an outstanding talent, but at the minute he is prone to the odd lapse of concentration or judgement.

I love kelleher but to be fair at 19 most liverpool fans had grabara as the better keeper and the one who would play first team for Liverpool not kelleher so bazunu has plenty of time to progress. I think he actually could do with a season back at City training every day in that high level environment with Emerson to really iron out those sloppy little errors. He hasn't spent much time in that high performance environment where you have to be accountable to world class players daily like kelleher has. At portsmouth you make a few flying saves and use your feet well and you get loads of plaudits cause it's just not a high performance environment relative to city or Liverpool.

[ontheotherhand]

Bazunu got the nod when Kelleher was injured, and fair enough he has performed well, but not faultlessly. If he was not on loan at present, would he be City’s number 2? Probably not, which answers the question as to which of them (in the judgement of two of the world’s best coaches) is further along in their career. I’m a Liverpool fan, so I am probably biased, but Kelleher looks more assured and confident. Bazunu is an outstanding talent, but at the minute he is prone to the odd lapse of concentration or judgement.

Does it? I'm not sure if being 2nd choice keeper makes you a better player than a keeper starting elsewhere, regardless of the club you're at.

[third policeman]

Does it? I'm not sure if being 2nd choice keeper makes you a better player than a keeper starting elsewhere, regardless of the club you're at.

It’s a judgement by their respective coaches predicated on the assumption that Bazunu is not City’s number 2. It doesn’t make him a better keeper, but suggests he may be further on in terms of career development. More experienced, more mature, more trusted. Closer to reaching his full potential, ready for action at a much higher level of club football perhaps?

[ontheotherhand]

Maybe. Or he's affordable bench fodder. I'm not saying he is, I think he's a promising option based on the limited gametime he's had and probably just suffered from a bit of bad timing which allowed Bazunu to come in and grab the jersey. I'd be happy to see either on the teamsheet. But I don't buy that being 2nd choice at Liverpool makes you a clearly better pick for Ireland.

I wish he'd go out on loan and prove to everyone that he is ready to be a first choice keeper at club and international level. It's a bit like people clamouring for Parrot to be brought in just because he had a few sub appearances for Spurs and looked like Kane's natural heir at one point. The reality was that he had (and still has) plenty of development to do and the managers working with him all understood that but supporters always want to believe the Great Hope is waiting in the wings.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Kelleher is second choice due in a large part to how useless Adrian is. Don't think the same can be said at City, with the USA number 1 and also scott Carson as next in line behind Ederson.