Gavin Bazunu G Standard Liege (loan from Southampton) b.2002

[tetsujin1979]

Seems to come from football insider
Read into that what you will

[Snapshot]

Spurs linked with a £15m move for Bazunu
Linked! Tottenham haven't even got a manager.

[John83]

Linked! Tottenham haven't even got a manager.
Managers don't have the control of transfers they used to. They have input, and some of them have a lot of pull, but they're just one part of a team these days.

[Snapshot]

Managers don't have the control of transfers they used to. They have input, and some of them have a lot of pull, but they're just one part of a team these days.
You're right, John, but Spurs seem all over the shop. I cannot see logic in Bazunu going there or Spurs wanting him. But nonetheless I'll cloak myself in the warm and fuzzy mantra of "he's young, promising and I hope I'm wrong". And I have been wrong (once or maybe twice), but nobody noticed or gave a rat's.

[Stuttgart88]

So, it'd appear that Bazunu was not Southampton's problem!

[pineapple stu]

Or that McCarthy was just as bad.

Any stats you look at show they've both definitely been part of the problem. Among others of course.

[CraftyToePoke]

Is Pickford, England keeper, with only 12 goals less conceded seen as part of the problem there ? Could also go down yet.
Not a sly dig, genuine enquiry.

[Eirambler]

Pickford's probably the main reason Everton aren't already relegated in fairness to him. He's had a really strong season. Not without a few mistakes, but he's won them points as well with some important saves.

[pineapple stu]

Is Pickford, England keeper, with only 12 goals less conceded seen as part of the problem there ? Could also go down yet.
Not a sly dig, genuine enquiry.
Going off the same link as before and he's conceded 2.7 goals less than expected - sixth in the league by that metric.

Obviously take the exact exact figure with a pinch of salt, but I think the broad picture (+2.7 good, -16.6 bad) holds and backs up Eirambler's post.

[Demesne Lad]

Southampton have been shopping at Man City again. 19-year-old goalkeeper Josh McNamara has joined the Saints on a two-year deal and will link up with their Under-21s squad, "initially". He "was identified by Southampton's new Director of Football, Jason Wilcox, formerly of the City Academy".

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-southampton-transfer-goalkeeper-27273819

[tetsujin1979]

Lot of goalkeepers leaving City at the moment, James Trafford is going to Burnley soon, and Zack Steffen could move this summer.

[JR89]

New Leicester manager is a City coach too so expect them to bring in a couple from City too.

[Demesne Lad]

Southampton keeper Willy Caballero leaves to become Asst Manager at Leicester. He had a Kelleheresque experience at Chelsea: 38 appearances, including 11 Premier League starts, in 4 years.

Former Chelsea goalkeeper Caballero joins Leicester City as assistant manager - We Ain't Got No History (sbnation.com) (https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2023/7/9/23788702/former-chelsea-goalkeeper-willy-caballero-begins-coaching-career-as-leicester-city-assistant-manager)

[Razors left peg]

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Some lads will have a meltdown when theres 2 Bazunus keeping Kelleher out of Ireland team!!!

[Demesne Lad]

Bazunu to remain first choice keeper for Southampton as Joe Lumley set to sign for the Saints.

http://mhv.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/23700663.southampton-complete-signing-former-middlesbrough-keeper-lumley/

[Razors left peg]

Starts today along with Manning and Smallbone

[tetsujin1979]

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[JR89]

Poor from Smallbone at the corner which leads to the equaliser and had been playing well from the bits I've seen tonight.

[OwlsFan]

Poor from Smallbone at the corner which leads to the equaliser and had been playing well from the bits I've seen tonight.

Only a bit part in a comfortable victory, despite the late winner. Bazunu didn't have much to do other than pick the ball out of the net and Manning had a few decent runs.

[Eirambler]

Only a bit part in a comfortable victory, despite the late winner. Bazunu didn't have much to do other than pick the ball out of the net and Manning had a few decent runs.

Thought Smallbone had a very good game overall actually. Playing as a deep midfielder he reminded me a bit of Cullen's MoM performance for Burnley in the first match of the Championship season last year, that was a Friday night game also. Smallbone also won the MoM award from Friday on the Southampton forum. Think he'll have a good season.

[joey B]

Great from Russell Martin on Gavin.....

1691509463713247235

[DCWA]

Has had a nightmare here. Awful howler for Sunderland’s 3rd as Southampton go in 3 down at HT

[Demesne Lad]

Has had a nightmare here. Awful howler for Sunderland’s 3rd as Southampton go in 3 down at HT

A big decision coming up for Stephen Kenny.

[DCWA]

A big decision coming up for Stephen Kenny.

Bigger decision for Russell Martin. He really put his neck on the line for him and if it was Gavin’s intention to test if his manager really meant what he said then he’s done a good job of that.

[Olé Olé]

Has had a nightmare here. Awful howler for Sunderland’s 3rd as Southampton go in 3 down at HT

Was he culpable for any of the other goals?

[DCWA]

Was he culpable for any of the other goals?


I didn’t see the first two, for the 4th no, he actually made a decent save a second before that one but his defence let him down, for the 5th was powerful downward header, maybe could have got something to it but would be very harsh to say culpable.

Worryingly for Southampton he did actually make a couple of good to very good saves as well.

[pineapple stu]

Looking at the Southampton forum and they're calling out Holgate in particular as one of the worst debuts they've seen.

Manning and Bazunu not getting much love either though. Bazunu's problem I think is he's had too many howlers at this stage. Made a couple of decent saves second half, question marks over whether he's effective at getting the ball to safety from them though. Couple of comments that Schmeichel and even de Gea are free agents.

And usual caveat that their forum is rant central.

Could see Southampton sliding to mid-table though. It's only their first defeat of the season but they've lost a lot of players in the transfer window and not sure they've come close to replacing them

[JR89]

Was he culpable for any of the other goals?

Here's the goals.

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[Stuttgart88]

I deleted a post above in order to repost it because I spelt “shot” wrong (with an i) and couldn’t edit it from my phone for some reason. It was just after the 3rd and I was critical of his effort. The first wasn’t unsaveable, but odds heavily favoured the scorer. Second looked like he was slow down on first glance but he gets a pass because he’d have seen the shot was going wide initially, delaying his reaction. Third was just soft - despite being unsighted he did see it early enough to save it but just didn’t. No blame for fourth or fifth but my frustration with him right now is that he’s just not making any 30/70 saves, none at all. The first and fifth were 30/70 imho. And the third was a 90/10. I also thought his save from the free kick at 2-0 was sloppy, nervous looking.

I’m not worried about him for Ireland because I think he’s more confident playing for us.

Southampton’s defence is dire though. Manning’s flank looked vulnerable all game and though Smallbone had some elegant moments he didn’t make an impression on the game. Got injured at the end too.

[Stuttgart88]

the 5th was powerful downward header, maybe could have got something to it but would be very harsh to say culpable.
Def not culpable, but he did actually get something on it I think, nearky getting it into the post. Today one goal was really poor but he leaves a few “missed opportunity for great save” moments out there. I’d like to see him start making a few more of these.

[pineapple stu]

I deleted a post above in order to repost it because I spelt “shot” wrong (with an i)
Sounds like you spelled it correctly so ?


my frustration with him right now is that he’s just not making any 30/70 saves, none at all. The first and fifth were 30/70 imho. And the third was a 90/10.
I think that's fair. I was expecting worse for the third goal tbh - it's weak rather than a real through-the-hands howler. But it's 12 goals against from 23 shots on target this season. **** all you can do about goals like the fourth (there's a defender all but dummies the ball in the six yard box) but it's an unusually high percentage of shots to goals that can't all be on the defence.

[Stuttgart88]

True Stu, he’s definitely leaving something out there.

But I know you didn’t cite it here but the relevance of of XG vs actual goals was shown up in the first half. At 2-0 Sunderland’s XG came up as 0.33. So goals against we’re 6x the expected value. But goal one was at least 70% of a certain goal, and goal two was 0% of an expected goal - it was wide! So any goal conceded from a 0% XG is a nonsense number. I know that’s an average of 35% but surely it’s the total that counts.

But subjectively I’d liked to have seen a couple of big saves today and in previous weeks.

[JR89]

Did the Southampton owners really expect Russell Martin to change their defensive woes. Swansea couldn't defend to save their lives and even at MK Dons it was you score two we'll score three type of defending. In his 179 games as manager before Southampton his team's have conceded 248 goals while scoring 246. He'll get you goals but his team's will also ship goals.

[pineapple stu]

But I know you didn’t cite it here but the relevance of of XG vs actual goals was shown up in the first half. At 2-0 Sunderland’s XG came up as 0.33. So goals against we’re 6x the expected value. But goal one was at least 70% of a certain goal, and goal two was 0% of an expected goal - it was wide!.
Don't get you on that - how was it wide? Was it deflected on target? That shouldn't matter I'd have thought.

Though in a way, you've been evaluating him using PSxG when describing saves as 30/70 - that's effectively what that stat is.

And then we can reduce to something human we can agree on, like "I’d liked to have seen a couple of big saves today and in previous weeks."

[Stuttgart88]

The shot was initially going wide, then deflected inward. So I’d love to know what the XG was of that incident.

And if the first chance was a very high likelihood of scoring how come XG a bit later on in the game was only .33?

But I don’t know how it’s calculated tbh, maybe it’s more holistic than simple quality of chances. Maybe, for example, the XG of the second goal was “measured” before the strike.

And more generally, an actual goals to expected goals ratio of 6x in only 2 goals renders the statistic a bit meaningless imho.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, xG is measured before the strike alright (that's the theory anyway). So from that distance, you might have - to make up some figures - 30% of shots going in, 50% of them being saved, and 20% going wide. xG is 0.3. It shouldn't be nil so far as I'm aware.

That's a measure of the forward though, because of course the shots that go wide have nothing to do with the keeper. You or I wouldn't let them in. So PSxG (post-shot xG) is I think the subset of xG given that the shot was on target. In the above case, it'd be the keeper saved 62.5% of the shots and lets in 37.5% (ie 5/8 and 3/8)

I think anyway. It certainly shouldn't be nil in any case. Don't know where you saw that?

[Jd2793]

post shot xg or expected goals on target is a better measure for a keeper. those 2 goals are very poor on bazunus part. quite worried about his performances now tbh. he shouldnt unquestionable be no.1 anymore imo

[Diggs246]

Interesting stoke lost 0-2 and Travers still got a 7 out 10

One wonders if a new manager comes in. Will travers jump to our number 1?

[Jolly Red Giant]

The Southampton defence is absolutely woeful - not just in their ability to defend, but their ability to act as a unit, to understand their job, and to understand that it is their job to stop attackers getting off easy shots and free headers. But it doesn't stop there - the Southampton midfield is just as bad in not understanding that it is also their job to track back and engage in defensive duties.


And here is the problem - they sold Livramento a couple of weeks ago (and Bella-Kotchap went to Holland on loan) - and did nothing else to try and fix one of the worst defenses that played in the PL. Manning is not known for his defensive prowess. Holgate didn't exactly light up the Championship last season at WBA. Now Harwood-Bellis might make a difference - but it is noteworthy that Burnley didn't choose to take him again this season in the PL.


JR89 is right - Martin's teams have always operated on the basis of 'we will score more than youse' - and it is likely that there will be 5-0 wins and 0-5 defeats scattered throughout the season.


It can be said that a defense is better if it has confidence in the goalkeeper - but it works both ways. Bazunu cannot expect the Southampton defence to actually defend - it must be having an impact on him.


1st goal - a minute into the game - and the Southampton defence allow an attacker to run around behind them and get a free header. Maybe Bazunu could have tried to come out an cut out the cross - but any goalie would have expected a defender to track the attacker and challenge for the ball. It would have been a spectacular save to have been able to stop the header. So after 1 minute Bazunu is there now having to second-guess himself every time the ball comes near the Southampton box.


2nd goal - Nobody closed down the Sunderland player allowing him a free shot - Bazunu was unsighted and it took a deflection - no chance to save it. 7 minutes in and you are two down and as a goalie you know its going to get worse.


3rd goal - Same player with the same shot from outside the box - Holgate gave the ball away and made no effort to get back - nobody closed him down and again Bazunu was unsighted - maybe he could have got down a bit quicker - but I wouldn't blame him for that one either.


4th goal - so they let a goal in right at the end of the first half - and let another one in at the start of the second-half. Nobody tracks the winger and he has all day to cross the ball - three defenders look at it and give the Sunderland player a free header from the six-yard line - Bazunu makes a terrific reflex save and gets the ball out wide - no Southampton player goes after it to clear or to block the shot - and it is bundled over the line.


5th goal - and Bazunu must really have been fed up at this stage - Southampton give the ball away - make no effort to get it back - the winger again has all day to cross it - the Southampton defenders look at it going over their heads and they allow a 16-year-old an unchallenged header. I do think Bazunu could have saved this one, he did get a hand on it - but by that stage what difference did it make. It is worth noting that the first and last goals were two textbook headers - back across the goal and into the ground.


All of this must be very frustrating for Bazunu. I thought that the move to Southampton was a good one - I think Hassenhuttl is a good coach - but their transfer policy was a shambles last season. They bought a pile of kids, banking on potential rather than ensuring that they had a spine of the team of seasoned PL players (which every team needs). They sacked Hassenhuttl after 14 games when they had 12 points - half of what they got over the entire season - and bring in Jones who proceeds to oversee 8 losses in 9 games - and they ended up selling the two best young players they brought in at the start of the season because they got because they got relegated. I do think that if they had stuck with Hassenhuttl he could have drag them out of the relegation zone. Jones is a donkey and Southampton were doomed the day he was made manager. The team recovered somewhat after Jones was sacked - because Sellas went back to the methods used by Hassenhuttl - but the damage was done by the appointment of Jones.


Irrespective of who Southampton bring in - unless the coaching staff sort out what the defense is supposed to be doing little will change - and the problem is that it will impact on Bazunu and his development as a keeper. But he is still only 21 - goalkeepers don't reach their peak until they head towards 30 - he still has a lot to learn and he seems to be very level-headed. Hopefully playing in front of that Southampton defence doesn't do too much damage in the process.

[Jolly Red Giant]

it's an unusually high percentage of shots to goals that can't all be on the defence.
I disagree - when you leave attackers the time to set-up a shot unchallenged and your goalkeeper is unsighted - then the fault for the goal lies solidly on the defence. Both shots yesterday were from central positions and ended up in the corner of the goal - Bazunu had to dive from his position in the middle of the goal, full-length to try and reach it and he could only move after it came through a crowd of players when he got sight of it.

It is also worth noting that Southampton had almost 70% possession yesterday - but did nothing with it except become complacent every time they lost the ball. The difference in the game was that Sunderland closed down the Southampton attackers - didn't let them get unchallenged crosses in, didn't give them time to set-up shots from outside the box etc. Bazunu made one outstanding save at 4-0 when Southampton gave the ball away (Holgate again) and the Sunderland player had a free run on goal from the half-way line - and a couple of other good saves - it could have been 7-0 or 8-0 if the goalkeeping was as poor as the defending.

[pineapple stu]

I'm reminded though of the posts that defender Travers after conceding nine against Liverpool last year. It was all the defence's fault, and Travers couldn't be blamed for any of the goals. Bournemouth saw it differently and went straight out and bought Neto.

Yes the Southampton defence is...iffy. But Bazunu has his share of the blame. His keeper stats were the worst in the PL last year by a long way. Southampton's new owners' policy seems to be to buy young and sell at a profit. Salisu, Livramento, Diallo, Lavia - young players all sold in pre-season. Celeta-Car, Perraud, Lyanco, Bella-Kotchap - all out on loan (I don't know is there an option to buy). Mostly to decent clubs too (Lyanco and Diallo to Qatar the exception). Ward-Prowse, an England international, gone too, not surprisingly. But no-one came in for Bazunu. That's a slight concern in and of itself.

I think posts saying everyone else is to blame are unhelpful really. And yes, he's 21, etc. But having dropped down a level, you'd like to see an improvement. I thought Stutts' post was a very good analysis of the sort of improvement we'd like to see but aren't yet. And the howlers are still there, as we saw in pre-season - the one against Göztepe was as bad as you'll see unfortunately. That'll put the jitters in any defence

[Jolly Red Giant]

I'm reminded though of the posts that defender Travers after conceding nine against Liverpool last year. It was all the defence's fault, and Travers couldn't be blamed for any of the goals. Bournemouth saw it differently and went straight out and bought Neto.


Yes the Southampton defence is...iffy. But Bazunu has his share of the blame. His keeper stats were the worst in the PL last year by a long way. Southampton's new owners' policy seems to be to buy young and sell at a profit. Salisu, Livramento, Diallo, Lavia - young players all sold in pre-season. Celeta-Car, Perraud, Lyanco, Bella-Kotchap - all out on loan (I don't know is there an option to buy). Mostly to decent clubs too (Lyanco and Diallo to Qatar the exception). Ward-Prowse, an England international, gone too, not surprisingly. But no-one came in for Bazunu. That's a slight concern in and of itself.


I think posts saying everyone else is to blame are unhelpful really. And yes, he's 21, etc. But having dropped down a level, you'd like to see an improvement. I thought Stutts' post was a very good analysis of the sort of improvement we'd like to see but aren't yet. And the howlers are still there, as we saw in pre-season - the one against Göztepe was as bad as you'll see unfortunately. That'll put the jitters in any defence
In the situation that Bazunu was in last season - and so far this season - stats are pretty much irrelevant. When your defenders do not defend - ever - then the goalie stats are always going to look bad. Trying to judge where a player is at using algorithms is a fool's errant without looking at the bigger picture.


Also - I am not saying that Bazunu doesn't carry some of the blame - I think a big weakness in his game is that he doesn't command the box - he is not vocal enough and he doesn't bully defenders into doing their job properly as a goalkeeper really has to do. I also think he needs to work on his ability to deal with crosses - as I said - coming for a cross for the first goal was an option. But I am not a goalkeeping coach - and I am sure the coaches he works with know what he needs to do. But the big problem at Southampton - and Russell Martin has stated this - is not Bazunu who he regards very highly - it is the other ten players on the pitch in front of him which is why Martin went out and got Holgate and Harwood-Bellis in the last few days.


Now - remember this - Gavin Bazunu is 21 years-old. There are only 3-4 goalkeepers in the PL that are under 30 years of age - and only one under 25 year of age - and he shipped 5 goals yesterday as well (in a team that is much better defensively than Southampton) - two from shots outside the box and one just inside the box (and he had a clear sight of the ball for all three shots - indeed all five shots he let in) - and he was openly at fault for at least one if not two of the goals. In the Championship its a little different - about half the goalies are under 30 - but, outside of Bazunu, only five of them are under 25 and the youngest is two years older than Bazunu.


You say that nobody came in for Bazunu - that is not a surprise - for two reasons - 1. Southampton were sh*te last year and nobody knows for sure who was at fault for it - and - 2. he is 21 years old and as I pointed out - he is the second youngest goalkeeper in the top two divisions in England (and the other guy has only played 3 games in the PL and already let in 11 goals). Managers hate young goalkeepers - in part because it is difficult for young keepers to order much older and more experienced defenders around the place, they don't command the box like a goalkeeper needs to do - and they can be inconsistent.


Gavin Bazunu is a tremendous goalkeeping prospect - he has the potential to be the best goalkeeper that Ireland has ever produced. But unfortunately he is in a bad situation at the moment - and all we can do is hope it gets better. He is in the second year of a five year contract which ties him to Southampton and its fortunes for at least a couple of years. He does seem level-headed and to be a mature young man - he does have the confidence of his manager - and hopefully he will come out the other end and fulfill his potential.

[JR89]

Brightons keeper is actually 21 and two months younger than Bazunu too I believe JRG

[pineapple stu]

In the situation that Bazunu was in last season - and so far this season - stats are pretty much irrelevant. When your defenders do not defend - ever - then the goalie stats are always going to look bad. Trying to judge where a player is at using algorithms is a fool's errant without looking at the bigger picture.
Ah that's not true though. Save percentage - way lower than anyone else. PSxG (the stat explicitly designed to measure keepers, not forwards or defenders) - something like 15 goals more than expected let in. Or take it the human way, and as Stutts said there were games there that were set up for the keeper to keep his side in it, but he never did.


You say that nobody came in for Bazunu - that is not a surprise - for two reasons - 1. Southampton were sh*te last year and nobody knows for sure who was at fault for it - and - 2. he is 21 years old
But Southampton were ****e last year and yet Salisu (centre-back, 24) went to Monaco, Livramento (full-back, 20) to Newcastle, Lavia (defensive mid, 19) to Chelsea, Bella-Kotchap (centre-back 21) to PSV. So why did all those young defensive players get transfers and Bazunu didn't? Any of those moves would have been an excellent move.

Yes, he's young and a prospect - but that doesn't mean we should blithely turn a blind eye to his faults

[Jolly Red Giant]

Ah that's not true though. Save percentage - way lower than anyone else. PSxG (the stat explicitly designed to measure keepers, not forwards or defenders) - something like 15 goals more than expected let in. Or take it the human way, and as Stutts said there were games there that were set up for the keeper to keep his side in it, but he never did.
There is no doubt that Bazunu was impacted by how bad Southampton were last year - it would affect anyone - and being in a bad team impacts a goalkeeper more than anyone else on the team because they are the ones picking the ball out of the net. But the problems that Southampton are having in defence this season are the same as last season - giving the ball away in dangerous areas, not tracking the runners and not making any effort to close down shots from outside the box. Bazunu was dropped after a 3-3 draw at Arsenal where none of the goals were his fault and he made two outstanding saves in the game. But it was probably right to pull him - just so he didn't have to deal with any more of the crap that was on the pitch in front of him.

In the 32 games that Bazunu played in the PL he let in 56 goals - that is 1.75 goals per game. Alex McCarthy replaced him for the last 6 games and let in 17 goals - 2.83 goals per game - and McCarthy didn't have that idiot Jones coaching the team.


But Southampton were ****e last year and yet Salisu (centre-back, 24) went to Monaco, Livramento (full-back, 20) to Newcastle, Lavia (defensive mid, 19) to Chelsea, Bella-Kotchap (centre-back 21) to PSV. So why did all those young defensive players get transfers and Bazunu didn't? Any of those moves would have been an excellent move.

Salisu played 22 games last season - Livramento played 2 games last season (he had an ACL) - Lavia (a midfielder) played 29 times - and Bella-Kotchap played 24 times. Only Lavia was a regular in the team - and Salisu and Bella-Kotchap were regularly dropped as the three different Southampton managers tried to solve the defensive problems that Southampton had. Lavia was the class act in the Southampton team last year - so it is not a surprise that he left. Newcastle might have forked out £32m for Liveramento - but it wasn't based on what he did last season. Bella-Kotchap was shipped out on loan to get his wages off the books. PL teams do not buy goalkeepers because of their potential - they bring goalkeepers with potential through their academy - there is no point forking out millions for a young goalkeeper to sit on a bench - it just doesn't happen. Indeed most PL teams have an experienced goalkeeper behind their already late 20s and early 30s (or in some cases late 30s) starting goalkeeper. Furthermore - nobody should go to Chelsea - its an absolute basketcase and Ponch has his work cut out there. Newcastle have four goalkeepers - all north of 30 - with PL experience in spades.

You are not comparing like with like in any of these situations.

Bazunu is currently starting in front of a goalkeeper with nine years and 135 games of PL experience in Alex McCarthy. If Bazunu was the problem then McCarthy would be playing - and remember - managers hate young goalkeepers.

By the way - its the same reason why nobody would fork out £25m for Kelleher - you don't pay that type of money for a young goalkeeper with limited experience (unless you are Burnley and you get caught up in the hype of an U-21 competition). The mistake Kelleher made was signing a five year contract in 2021 - but maybe he hopes to replace Alisson in a couple of years.


Yes, he's young and a prospect - but that doesn't mean we should blithely turn a blind eye to his faults
Who is turning a blind eye - he is 21 years old - he is a goalkeeper that will not be at the peak of his game for another 10 years. Of course he has faults - but that does not mean that he is not a damned good goalkeeper in the here and now. As I already pointed out he is the second youngest goalkeeper in the top two divisions of English football (and in my opinion a better goalkeeper than the guy who is younger than him - and who could end up being responsible for Burnley getting relegated - don't think it will happen as Kompany knows what he is doing and Trafford will have a decent defence in front of him). There is a reason why Bazunu is actually being selected - because he is good enough for the job - otherwise, as I said, McCarthy would be in the team.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Brightons keeper is actually 21 and two months younger than Bazunu too I believe JRG
Steele is the first choice keeper at Brighton. De Zebri - who I think is a damned good coach - has made a daft decision to rotate his goalkeepers depending on the opposition. It also helps Verbruggen that he will be in a team with a decent defence, and that has such an attacking threat that their opponents are often on the back-foot. Verbruggen is a good young goalkeeper - like Trafford and Bazunu - but he was largely at fault last week when Brighton has 80% possession against West Ham and still let in 3 goals - in my opinion Verbruggen should have stopped two of them or at least made a damned better effort to stop them. It is much easier to be a young goalkeeper in a team that is performing very well - than it is in a team fighting relegation and having the crowd hurling abuse because they don't want to see their team go down.

[pineapple stu]

I really can't agree with much of this.

But the problems that Southampton are having in defence this season are the same as last season - giving the ball away in dangerous areas, not tracking the runners and not making any effort to close down shots from outside the box.
But they also have the problem that their keeper doesn't make many saves. You can see the save stats here (https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/Championship-Stats) - for a range of clubs, good defences and bad defences, attacking and defensive, counter-attack and possession. He's down at a 50% save rate - there's only one keeper in the league with a worse record. The average is about 70%. That's a big difference. Or take the PSxG - which is a measure of the keeper, not the defenders, because again it takes as the starting point that the shot has already come in - and he's on -3.3. That is, he's conceded three goals more than you would expect an average keeper to save.

Both those stats were similar last year (https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2022-2023/keepers/2022-2023-Premier-League-Stats) (54% save rate, lowest in the league for players with more than I think 10 games, and conceded 16 goals more than expeccted), so you can't just overlook that part. They're way off where they need to be.


In the 32 games that Bazunu played in the PL he let in 56 goals - that is 1.75 goals per game. Alex McCarthy replaced him for the last 6 games and let in 17 goals - 2.83 goals per game - and McCarthy didn't have that idiot Jones coaching the team.
That just means he did better than McCarthy. Not a great marker.


Salisu played 22 games last season - Livramento played 2 games last season (he had an ACL) - Lavia (a midfielder) played 29 times - and Bella-Kotchap played 24 times. Only Lavia was a regular in the team - and Salisu and Bella-Kotchap were regularly dropped as the three different Southampton managers tried to solve the defensive problems that Southampton had. Lavia was the class act in the Southampton team last year - so it is not a surprise that he left. Newcastle might have forked out £32m for Liveramento - but it wasn't based on what he did last season. Bella-Kotchap was shipped out on loan to get his wages off the books. PL teams do not buy goalkeepers because of their potential - they bring goalkeepers with potential through their academy - there is no point forking out millions for a young goalkeeper to sit on a bench - it just doesn't happen. Indeed most PL teams have an experienced goalkeeper behind their already late 20s and early 30s (or in some cases late 30s) starting goalkeeper. Furthermore - nobody should go to Chelsea - its an absolute basketcase and Ponch has his work cut out there. Newcastle have four goalkeepers - all north of 30 - with PL experience in spades.
A young keeper being less useful than a young defender is a fair point, but you can't keep lumping blame on the defence when the players go to clubs like Newcastle, PSV and Chelsea. Yes, there were issues, but again, it wasn't all on them.


Who is turning a blind eye
I think you are. You dismiss the goalkeeping stats even though they take the defence into account. You absolve him of blame for any of the five goals against Sunderland even though pretty much all the rest of us are saying he should have stopped the third and probably on balance should have kept out one of the others (the 30/70s Stutts mentioned). McCarthy may well end up in the team soon unfortunately, given Bazunu's form this season is the same as the form that caused him to be dropped late last season.

[ifk101]

He didn’t have a good game. He wasn’t purely “at fault” for any of the goals but an international standard goalkeeper would be expected to make a difference for goals 2 and 3. Not resulting in goals but there were saves where he needed to show greater strength in parrying the save away from danger areas (a save from a free kick in the first half comes to mind here). Not ideal preparation for our games.

As for the other Irish players on show, Smallbone didn’t have an influence on the game and Manning was shockingly bad – a liability when put on the back foot.

[Diggs246]

There is too much debate on his age
If your good enough you play
Doesn't matter if your 19 or 37.

It's 11 men v 11 men.

Sure he will get better but that's no good for us at the momentum

Tbf he's been good for Ireland ( but not excellent)

I think stutts 30/70 philosophy is an excellent way to look at it. He doesn't save enough of them.

I actually think he is very slow to get down for the 2nd goal as well.

[pineapple stu]

I actually think he is very slow to get down for the 2nd goal as well.
I was thinking that actually - I hadn't noticed it took a deflection until Stutts mentioned it; you can't really see it from the main camera angle. But it's clear from the camera behind the goal - and it actually moves the ball that bit closer to him, so an easier save in theory. But he doesn't get a hand on it. Reminds me a bit of the two goals against Armenia where again he was slow to get down to shots from distance.

Looks like he's getting plenty of practice at them at least, so hopefully it's something that'll be smoothed out sooner rather than later.