Gavin Bazunu G Standard Liege (loan from Southampton) b.2002

[Jolly Red Giant]

Forde's kick outs and distribution were simply not good enough for a pro footballer
Randolph was extremely reliable. I never had any fears or concerns when he was in nets
We cant honestly say that about Gavin and also Kelleher at the moment.

I would agree re the Lux save away, that was and astounding save
Randolph was solid during most of his time with Ireland - but he was 29 before he became first choice keeper for Ireland - in his prime as a keeper. Forde was picked ahead of him over the previous four years.

People need to remember that Bazunu is only 21 years old - that is an infant in terms of a modern goalkeeper - and yet he has already played over 120 club games and 21 internationals. Alisson was 25 before he established himself at Roma, Ederson 23 at Benfica, Oblak 23, Martinez was 28 before he got a chance with Villa. Now I am not saying Bazunu will be on that level (although he has the potential) - but the kid has to be given time to grow and learn.

[LurcherLover]

If you are honestly stating that Bonner was a seriously average keeper and at the same time saying Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years, your 1st point completely negates your 2nd point. How can anyone seriously say that about Bazunu and Kelleher when the latter has hardly played senior football and the other, has some of the worst stats currently in top flight football. And stats do matter, the best clubs in the world pay a lot of money to staff who's sole job is to analyse stats to aid performance, I'd imagine their valuation of stats weighs more than a few posters on a forum. They are clearly good keepers and may turn out to be great keepers, but to say they are the best keepers that we have ever had, which is what is being said when you're saying the past 100 years, is one of the craziest things I've seen on a forum regarding Irish players. There's not even an argument for it.

[pineapple stu]

I think we can sum up the foot.ie basis for evaluating Irish keepers as -

Stats - meaningless
L'Equipe - b0llocks
Ballon d'Or - rigged or something
JRG's views with no real back-up - unarguable

Seems entirely rational to me.

[Jolly Red Giant]

I think we can sum up the foot.ie basis for evaluating Irish keepers as -

Stats - meaningless
L'Equipe - b0llocks
Ballon d'Or - rigged or something
JRG's views with no real back-up - unarguable

Seems entirely rational to me.
So the response is some off the cuff remarks that bear little semblance to what is actually said - and then dismiss the evidence provided.

stu - you are entitled to your opinion - and you are entitled to use metrics as the basis for what you believe. I am entitled to point out that stats are limited in what they can tell us about football and there are very many things that you cannot measure that directly impact on performance - that using your own eyes to review things can be a far better indicator of performance that handing everything over to algorithms.

What is irrational is assuming that your method is correct. I base my views on evidence - and I don't dismiss the evidence produced by statistics - but I do use more than one source before forming my opinion. Why - because using only one source leads to bias. And I generally don't make statements without producing the evidence (which unfortunately leads me to posting stuff that is far too long).

[Jolly Red Giant]

If you are honestly stating that Bonner was a seriously average keeper and at the same time saying Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years, your 1st point completely negates your 2nd point. How can anyone seriously say that about Bazunu and Kelleher when the latter has hardly played senior football and the other, has some of the worst stats currently in top flight football. And stats do matter, the best clubs in the world pay a lot of money to staff who's sole job is to analyse stats to aid performance, I'd imagine their valuation of stats weighs more than a few posters on a forum. They are clearly good keepers and may turn out to be great keepers, but to say they are the best keepers that we have ever had, which is what is being said when you're saying the past 100 years, is one of the craziest things I've seen on a forum regarding Irish players. There's not even an argument for it.
First point - I didn't say Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years - so be clear about the point you are making

Second point - I never said that stats don't matter - I said that stats weren't the only think that counts. The current stats say that Onana is the second best goalkeeper in the PL when he has probably just cost his club £10m+ in CL money and several points in the PL so far this season.

Third point - Stuttgart88 pointed out - Bonnar was a bang average club goalkeeper in a team that would be Championship level in England. He did a decent job for Celtic - but there was never a whiff of an English club trying to sign him during his time in Glasgow.

Last point - again - never said - they are the best keepers that we have ever had - so if you want to argue a point then argue the point that has been made.

I will put it to you this way - which goalkeepers over the past 100 years were better than Bazunu and Kelleher (and keep in mind the standard that those goalkeepers played at club level).

[Stuttgart88]

If you are honestly stating that Bonner was a seriously average keeper and at the same time saying Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years, your 1st point completely negates your 2nd point. How can anyone seriously say that about Bazunu and Kelleher when the latter has hardly played senior football and the other, has some of the worst stats currently in top flight football. And stats do matter, the best clubs in the world pay a lot of money to staff who's sole job is to analyse stats to aid performance, I'd imagine their valuation of stats weighs more than a few posters on a forum. They are clearly good keepers and may turn out to be great keepers, but to say they are the best keepers that we have ever had, which is what is being said when you're saying the past 100 years, is one of the craziest things I've seen on a forum regarding Irish players. There's not even an argument for it.Did you watch Celtic when Bonner was playing?! He definitely upped his game playing for Ireland.

[Stuttgart88]

I never had any fears or concerns when he was in nets
We cant honestly say that about Gavin and also Kelleher at the moment.I don't go into any Ireland game worrying about goalkeeper tbh. The only worry is the reaction here if one of them makes a mistake, specially Bazunu as I actually rate him and think others have a glass-half-empty view (at best)! I worry about our midfield 10 times more than I worry about goalkeeper regardless of which one plays. All campaign we've been waiting for that costly Bazunu mistake which never came.

I've frequently said players and especially goalkeepers can be more at home for their international team than their club. Bonner was definitely a stronger keeper for us than he was for Celtic (I disagree with JRG that Celtic were Championship standard at that time btw).

I think the post about L'Equipe and Ballon D'Or was a bit juvenile tbh.

Stats are what they are.

The most overlooked factor in all of this is good objective opinion which seems to be lacking all round here.

I actually forgot about Westwood. He had something special about him. Bazunu and Kelleher have yet to come close to his best club form yet.

[LurcherLover]

First point - I didn't say Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years - so be clear about the point you are making

Second point - I never said that stats don't matter - I said that stats weren't the only think that counts. The current stats say that Onana is the second best goalkeeper in the PL when he has probably just cost his club £10m+ in CL money and several points in the PL so far this season.

Third point - Stuttgart88 pointed out - Bonnar was a bang average club goalkeeper in a team that would be Championship level in England. He did a decent job for Celtic - but there was never a whiff of an English club trying to sign him during his time in Glasgow.

Last point - again - never said - they are the best keepers that we have ever had - so if you want to argue a point then argue the point that has been made.

I will put it to you this way - which goalkeepers over the past 100 years were better than Bazunu and Kelleher (and keep in mind the standard that those goalkeepers played at club level).
OK, "Bazunu and Kelleher are probably better than any goalkeeper who has played for Ireland in the last 100 years with the exception of Shay Given". Sorry about that...

Honestly, I'm honestly not trying to be rude or anything along them lines, but you can write whatever you want or say another poster said that Bonner was average at club level but there's no debate here for me with Bazunu and certainly not Kelleher. The lad has 10 caps, or whatever, against weak teams in friendlies/NL, very little club football at senior level and your putting him ahead of/saying he's probably better than every keeper in the last 100 years with the exception of Given? Come off it now.

[SkStu]

First point - I didn't say Bazunu & Kelleher are better than any keeper we have had in the past 100 years - so be clear about the point you are making

Second point - I never said that stats don't matter - I said that stats weren't the only think that counts. The current stats say that Onana is the second best goalkeeper in the PL when he has probably just cost his club £10m+ in CL money and several points in the PL so far this season.

Third point - Stuttgart88 pointed out - Bonnar was a bang average club goalkeeper in a team that would be Championship level in England. He did a decent job for Celtic - but there was never a whiff of an English club trying to sign him during his time in Glasgow.

Last point - again - never said - they are the best keepers that we have ever had - so if you want to argue a point then argue the point that has been made.

I will put it to you this way - which goalkeepers over the past 100 years were better than Bazunu and Kelleher (and keep in mind the standard that those goalkeepers played at club level).

The game has changed a lot in even just the last 5 years for what constitutes a good keeper. The other difficulty is that the players over the last 100 years have full careers on which to be judged while the sample size is still limited for Bazunu and Kelleher, as well as the fact that they have so much potential and the potential to be great. So maybe the question is who do they have left to catch up to in terms of career performances and achievements? I think the answer is different for both of them. Bazunu, in my opinion, still has to catch up to Given and Randolph too. There's arguments around the edges for others but those are two that Bazunu needs to surpass. The list is quite a bit longer for Kelleher and he has less time to do it.

I also don't know if you are asking about club career, international career or both - because you dismissed Randolph due to not becoming a regular for Ireland until later in his career. If you are including international careers, then it is not fair to dismiss Bonner so casually. He was great for us - and an ever present - he gave us England 88 and Romania 90 - and won things in Scotland when it was considered a lot higher as an achievement.

[LurcherLover]

Did you watch Celtic when Bonner was playing?! He definitely upped his game playing for Ireland.Yes. Whether your opinion of him was that he was bang average in a championship side club, as JRG pointed out, or he just upped his game at international level is irrelevant when making a comparison to Kelleher/Bazunu. Bazunu looks average at a championship club and seems to up his game for International and we don't even know what standard Kelleher is, as the lad has hardly played snr football at club level. Will they turn out to be better than every keeper, bar Given, over the past 100 years? Maybe. But, making that comparison now at the current point in their careers is bonkers.

[Jolly Red Giant]

While he made a couple of good saves in the game - Bazunu was at fault for the Watford equaliser. If Southampton miss out on promotion by 2 pts they will look back on this game as one that got away.

[tetsujin1979]

They've drawn five games this season, why single this one out?
If they finish second by a point, will they single it out as the reason they got promoted?

[Stuttgart88]

Ah come on Tets. The equaliser came on 96 or 97 mins. Twitter saying he was MOTM but then let in a bad one. The life of a goalie…

In truth, Southampton have also scored some very late winners this season.

[Diggs246]

Ah come on Tets. The equaliser came on 96 or 97 mins. Twitter saying he was MOTM but then let in a bad one. The life of a goalie…

In truth, Southampton have also scored some very late winners this season.

The match isnt over until the final whistle blows. If make a balls of a goal, you make a balls of a goal

[Stuttgart88]

I think you missed my point entirely.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Being a goalie is the most unenviable job on a football pitch - you can play great for the entire game and still cost your team the match with one mistake. Often the mistake happens early in the game and the team can recover - 6 mins into injury time and there is not much you can do. Those are the saves you really have to make.

Now - the upside is that Bazunu has the character to bounce back.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Being a goalie is the most unenviable job on a football pitch

Yes, and only equaled by the job Stutts has been trying to do on this thread in his last few posts!

[Stuttgart88]

Life of a goalkeeper. Apparently Bazunu saves a point for Southampton with a great late save.

Source: Twitter!

[culloty82]

A good spell for both him and the Saints over the last month - currently on course for his fourth clean sheet in six league games.

[Olé Olé]

I see they are well clear of the next side in 4th. Seems like Baz is a good keeper and Martin a good manager.

[nigel-harps1954]

Massive howler from Bazunu in the 91st minute, almost assured of a clean sheet in a stress free game, and he gets caught on the ball and gifts Plymouth a goal to make it 2-1.

[SkStu]

Ugly mistake in injury time after a very quiet game for him. Faffing around with the ball at his feet and got caught. Plymouth bring it back to 2-1. Azaz was very quiet as PAFC had barely any chances. Manning and Smallbone played very well.

[tetsujin1979]

Was Plymouth's only shot on target
1740822899664011779

[Olé Olé]

Ugly mistake but that is bound to occur. They still won too. It is disappointing but wasn't fatal. One to learn from.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, a bad one alright. It looked to me like an overly complacent young player losing concentration on his way to a 4th(?) clean sheet in a row. As Ole says, one he'll learn from rather than a mistake that'’d make you question his ability.

Sky showed an interesting caption during the game.

First 9 games = 20 goals conceded, 0 cleans
sheets, 4+ goals conceded 3 times.

In the subsequent 15 games it's 9 conceded (10 now), 7 clean sheets and 0 times conceding 4.

Great turnaround in personal form but also credit to the manager for sorting out the teams's defence generally and turning a soft team into a team that wins routinely. It's kind of what I was hoping would happen Kenny but he never came close to sustaining any signs of a turnaround.

[Eirambler]

The kind of moment that makes me glad he is in the Championship for now where every mistake isn't getting played out in front of a global audience. That said I remember him making a similar mistake about three years ago playing for the Man City Under 23s, so disappointing to see it happen to him again. Needs to learn that if you take a bad first touch you just need to punt it long.

[Diggs246]

The kind of moment that makes me glad he is in the Championship for now where every mistake isn't getting played out in front of a global audience. That said I remember him making a similar mistake about three years ago playing for the Man City Under 23s, so disappointing to see it happen to him again. Needs to learn that if you take a bad first touch you just need to punt it long.

That's an excellent point
If these mistakes were in the premier league. His confidence would take an far bigger knock.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Ugly mistake but that is bound to occur. They still won too. It is disappointing but wasn't fatal. One to learn from.
lapse in concentration - every goalkeeper has one of these at some stage - big thing is to make sure it never happens again (if it does then there is a problem).

Given how hard he is supposed to work - I would be shocked to see Bazunu in such a situation again for the rest of his career.

[pineapple stu]

That said I remember him making a similar mistake about three years ago playing for the Man City Under 23s, so disappointing to see it happen to him again. Needs to learn that if you take a bad first touch you just need to punt it long.
You don't have to go that far back - he made a similar error against Preston in October. Got caught in possession 5/10 yards outside his box; his clearance was charged down and rebounded back towards goal but fortunately he recovered to beat the forward back to it. That time I think there was a defender just in the way which didn't help things, but still, similar enough

[Jolly Red Giant]

You don't have to go that far back - he made a similar error against Preston in October. Got caught in possession 5/10 yards outside his box; his clearance was charged down and rebounded back towards goal but fortunately he recovered to beat the forward back to it. That time I think there was a defender just in the way which didn't help things, but still, similar enough
Nah - completely different situation - it was right at the start of the second half - Smallbone passed the ball back from the centre spot and Bazunu told the defender to leave it - the defender ran right across in front of him blocking Bazunu, allowing the Preston player to get up to the ball and block the kick. Now Bazunu should have been more conscious of the position of both the Preston player and the defender, but any goalie in the situation would have expected the defender to get out of the way after being told to leave the ball - the defender should have moved wide to make himself available in case Bazunu needed an outlet to him.

But in that game Bazunu made two cracking saves to keep Southampton in the game and then scored the equaliser (technically an o.g.)

The most recent situation was a lack of concentration - right at the end of a game that Southampton completely dominated and Bazunu didn't have anything to do during the entire game. It was a bad mistake - but one that most goalies will make once in their careers. He has to learn from it and be conscious of the stage of the game and where the attacker is when he receives the ball - good as he is with his distribution, he is not good enough to outplay an attacker charging at him every time. Southampton were two up and in injury time you just get rid of the ball - you don't need to try and set up another attack.

[tetsujin1979]

Southampton up to second after beating Sheffield Wednesday, at least temporarily with Ipswich playing Sunderland this evening

[Eirambler]

Sounds like he went well again today. Has only conceded one goal in his last six home games (the one goal was that disaster moment where he was dispossessed against Plymouth). Hasn't conceded more than a single goal in a game since October and hasn't been on a losing side since September.

He definitely seems to have established himself as a top end Championship keeper at this stage, the interesting question for Baz now will be - if Southampton go up do they stick with him as number 1 or do they bring someone else in?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Sounds like he went well again today. Has only conceded one goal in his last six home games (the one goal was that disaster moment where he was dispossessed against Plymouth). Hasn't conceded more than a single goal in a game since October and hasn't been on a losing side since September.

He definitely seems to have established himself as a top end Championship keeper at this stage, the interesting question for Baz now will be - if Southampton go up do they stick with him as number 1 or do they bring someone else in?
If Southampton are promoted Bazunu will be their keeper in the PL - the question is whether they can hold onto him if they don't get promoted.

[Eirambler]

At a minimum I could see them bringing in a more experienced type to compete with him, someone much better than Alex McCarthy - in case things go a bit wrong again. If they don't go up I'm sure loads of the bigger teams would be interested, but almost certainly as a number 2 keeper, which he definitely won't want. So I'd fully expect him to continue at Southampton if they don't go up.

[Jolly Red Giant]

At a minimum I could see them bringing in a more experienced type to compete with him, someone much better than Alex McCarthy - in case things go a bit wrong again. If they don't go up I'm sure loads of the bigger teams would be interested, but almost certainly as a number 2 keeper, which he definitely won't want. So I'd fully expect him to continue at Southampton if they don't go up.
If Bazunu goes back into the PL it will be as the No.1 - and if Southampton get promoted you would hope that they would attempt to put a better defence in front of him than they had last year. Martin fixed the defensive problems Southampton had in the first few weeks this season and we can now see the results - Bazunu isn't being exposed - and, like yesterday, he is making 2/3 good saves a game and his distribution is impacting the game.

One of the things that every promoted team needs in the PL is pace - because they will have to rely on the counter-attack to get goals to win and draw games. Southampton do have some pace - and yesterday they showed it, scoring on the counter-attack.

[Stuttgart88]

Sounds like he went well again today. Has only conceded one goal in his last six home games (the one goal was that disaster moment where he was dispossessed against Plymouth). Hasn't conceded more than a single goal in a game since October and hasn't been on a losing side since September.

He definitely seems to have established himself as a top end Championship keeper at this stage, the interesting question for Baz now will be - if Southampton go up do they stick with him as number 1 or do they bring someone else in?Club record 20 unbeaten now I think. I went onto Twitter to see if there were any clues as to how he played and several posts said he made very good saves at key times.

[pineapple stu]

Not great for Swansea's goal today - floundered under a deep cross - but made up for it with a couple of good late saves to see out a 3-1 win. Smallbone on target (though there was an offside missed in the immediate build-up - not that that's his fault of course) and Manning played the full 90 as well.

Up into second until Monday at least, when Ipswich travel to leaders Leicester. Southampton have Rotherham and Huddersfield next, who don't seem like troubling them.

[Eirambler]

They're flying now and Bazunu's upturn in form is playing a big part in it, which is great to see.

[SkStu]

Not great for Swansea's goal today - floundered under a deep cross - but made up for it with a couple of good late saves to see out a 3-1 win. Smallbone on target (though there was an offside missed in the immediate build-up - not that that's his fault of course) and Manning played the full 90 as well.

Up into second until Monday at least, when Ipswich travel to leaders Leicester. Southampton have Rotherham and Huddersfield next, who don't seem like troubling them.

Does Flynn Downes have any Irish connection? I know he’s played underage for England but I thought I saw him mentioned here before? By Crafty maybe… he’s 24/25 now.

[culloty82]

Southampton are now up to second, after seven wins and a draw from their last eight league matches, and on the same number of games played as Ipswich, who slip to fourth.

[SkStu]

Dropped!

;)

[Jolly Red Giant]

Dropped!

;)
I am presuming an element of sarcasm there.

[Razors left peg]

I am presuming an element of sarcasm there.
Theres history

[seanfhear]

Southampton letting in 3 goals yesterday ~ Bad Southampton defending rather than Bazunu being at fault.

3 goals against for Southampton in the last two games ~ ~ Their defending may well cost them an automatic promotion place.

[Stuttgart88]

Southampton were totally dominant in the first half yet barely contested the second.

[tetsujin1979]

Fantastic save from Bazunu at 1:35 here
QXlNHnxhx4Y

[Stuttgart88]

I didn't see the first goal last night - some say it was originally a good save but others say he parried it straight to the attacker who scored. Didn't sound good anyway.

Second was a calamity. Bazunu played a short casual pass to his Josh Cullen equivalent who coughed up possession and Hull scored. The deep midfiedlder was heavily marked but still lost it badly. I assume Bazunu is under orders to play this way but it looked a bit reckless/casual to me. It was the type of daft goal they conceded lots of in the early part of the season.

He also playeda long loose pass that could have led to being chipped from 45 yards but the attacker mis-hit it.

He did make one smart stop at his near post at 1-0 down.

Twitter hated him last night!

[seanfhear]

I didn't see the first goal last night - some say it was originally a good save but others say he parried it straight to the attacker who scored. Didn't sound good anyway.

Second was a calamity. Bazunu played a short casual pass to his Josh Cullen equivalent who coughed up possession and Hull scored. The deep midfiedlder was heavily marked but still lost it badly. I assume Bazunu is under orders to play this way but it looked a bit reckless/casual to me. It was the type of daft goal they conceded lots of in the early part of the season.

He also playeda long loose pass that could have led to being chipped from 45 yards but the attacker mis-hit it.

He did make one smart stop at his near post at 1-0 down.

Twitter hated him last night!Southampton seem to be able to pull out some bad performances ~ ~ Which you sometimes get with a bad defence.

[pineapple stu]

Bazunu played a short casual pass to his Josh Cullen equivalent
Well there's your problem straight off - what the heck was he doing passing to a guy sat on the bench?!

[Eirambler]

First one wasn't his fault, he made a good save, they buried the rebound, same thing happened to Kelleher last week and he was getting praised.

Second one wasn't his fault either. He played it out short, like he's done hundreds of times this season, that's what he's told to do. The outfield player messed up and coughed up possession and Bazunu had no chance from there.