Adam Idah F. Celtic b.2001

[John83]

They have 2 points from 5 games, and are 6 points and 6 places off of the last playoff place with one game left. Maybe they're just experimenting.

[pineapple stu]

If so, they started experimenting when they were seventh and about one point off the playoffs. They've seven points from ten games and any vaguely decent run of form in that time would have them top six now. I think there's been calls for the manager to be sacked of late too

I read too that they'd borrowed against their next season's parachute payments; if that's the case they could easily be a contender to drop to the third tier in the next couple of seasons.

[Demesne Lad]

On the bench for the game v relegated Blackpool; Lyons and Hamilton start for the visitors.

[pineapple stu]

Not a great start to pre-season for Idah - one for Sergeant, three for Barnes but Idah missed two good chances when he came on, including a one-on-one, and was rated a 3 by the PinkUn website - https://www.pinkun.com/news/23642802.kings-lynn-town-v-norwich-city-match-report-player-ratings/

[Razors left peg]

It's preseason ffs, since when does anyone care about player ratings in preseason

[pineapple stu]

You can read into it what you want for sure

But not a great afternoon's work when his rivals for a starting place score four between them while Idah is missing big chances against a sixth tier side.

[Razors left peg]

It's preseason, he probably missed a few chances in training last Thursday too, but I heard he was brilliant in the 5 a side game on Friday

[Diggs246]

I know he is a great lad who gives 100%
But I think he's an incredible average player. Championship at best.
A decent stricker needs that ability to be in the right place at the right time. I just don't see it here.

[LurcherLover]

Preseason or not, it's hardly welcomed and will do nothing for his confidence if his team mates are banging in goals against pub teams and he's missing sitters. I mean, let's face it, he's hardly been prolific for them out of preseason. He's a player who needs a few goals to boost his confidence going into a new season and that's exactly what a good preseason is for and will do.

[pineapple stu]

It's preseason, he probably missed a few chances in training last Thursday too, but I heard he was brilliant in the 5 a side game on Friday
Not sure what relevance that is.

I know you think he's the second coming of Drogba and find all suggestions to the contrary to be almost offensive, but we have to be able to discuss games rationally. And yeah, it was a friendly - and I think we can take it as read that people can appreciate that fact - but his main rivals for starting places up front scored four in the first 50 minutes. On comes Idah - goals dry up immediately.

And on diggs' point about general ability, the highlights are below. That's a bad miss at 5:25 - typical of his lack of composure in front of goal unfortunately. And there's another chance at 6:30 where he tees himself up almost for an overhead kick or maybe a take-down in the box, but his teammate comes in for the cross in the right place and gets a good simple header on the ball and forces a good save and a corner - so positioning/decision making arguably not great there either. I think Stutts has called out that aspect of his game before. You could probably argue that's a little bit harsh - though the highlights then don't show a later one-on-one miss, so I think that balances out.

(Duffy's own goal is there at 4:35; it's a shocking error, though I didn't see you criticise my comment in his thread to the extent that it's best he get it out of the way in pre-season or similar)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDuhxMszUDw

On the Norwich forum he was being called out as off the pace. Some of the comments after the game -


What has he ever done to suggest he can have any kindof decent career as a striker at any professional level?

A good result for Idah. Six goals being enough to be more than the times he was offside.

I'd absolutely love Idah to come good, but am losing confidence myself he will as we've been saying this for 4 years now. At what point does it become acceptable (having waited 4 years) to put an opinion forward that you just feel he's not good enough at this level.

Idah looked the least sharp of the attacking players.

He just isn’t good enough for a championship team. We should loan him out and then sell him

Timing of his runs needs serious improvement.

They're not all like that - there's some who say he's never had a clearly defined role at Norwich and could benefit from a loan spell in that regard, and there's others who just blindly believe he'll come good - but it's certainly a majority view. And this from people who watch him week in week out.

I think we have to take it as a reasonable view to put out there without silly dismissals of it.

[ifk101]

We can give it a silly dismissal as Idah is literally just back from his holidays. He's a couple of weeks behind the rest of the Norwich squad as he was away on international duty with us.

[pineapple stu]

So he was poor because he played about an hour of football about a month ago? Even though others in the squad did so too, and some travelled much farther in doing so (like Nunez going to Chile and Bolivia)?

Gotcha.

[Razors left peg]

Not sure what relevance that is.

I know you think he's the second coming of Drogba and find all suggestions to the contrary to be almost offensive, but we have to be able to discuss games rationally. And yeah, it was a friendly - and I think we can take it as read that people can appreciate that fact - but his main rivals for starting places up front scored four in the first 50 minutes. On comes Idah - goals dry up immediately.

And on diggs' point about general ability, the highlights are below. That's a bad miss at 5:25 - typical of his lack of composure in front of goal unfortunately. And there's another chance at 6:30 where he tees himself up almost for an overhead kick or maybe a take-down in the box, but his teammate comes in for the cross in the right place and gets a good simple header on the ball and forces a good save and a corner - so positioning/decision making arguably not great there either. I think Stutts has called out that aspect of his game before. You could probably argue that's a little bit harsh - though the highlights then don't show a later one-on-one miss, so I think that balances out.

(Duffy's own goal is there at 4:35; it's a shocking error, though I didn't see you criticise my comment in his thread to the extent that it's best he get it out of the way in pre-season or similar)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDuhxMszUDw

On the Norwich forum he was being called out as off the pace. Some of the comments after the game -








They're not all like that - there's some who say he's never had a clearly defined role at Norwich and could benefit from a loan spell in that regard, and there's others who just blindly believe he'll come good - but it's certainly a majority view. And this from people who watch him week in week out.

I think we have to take it as a reasonable view to put out there without silly dismissals of it.

It's preseason........

[ifk101]

He was "poor" because he's just back from his holidays. He was included in the Bristol training camp, and part of the training camp prior to Greece/ Gibraltar so yeah - a hour of football a month ago. Imagine going to the effort of multi quoting the Norwich forum to have a go.

[pineapple stu]

It's preseason........
It's pre-season for everyone.

Unfortunately it seems we'll go to any lengths to deflect away from things that reflect badly on our players (even when those things don't impact others in the squad for some reason)

[Razors left peg]

It's pre-season for everyone.

Unfortunately it seems we'll go to any lengths to deflect away from things that reflect badly on our players (even when those things don't impact others in the squad for some reason)

It's not deflecting, it's not caring that a lad who was on a beach last week has a bit of rustiness in a training match.

Man United are playing games in Vegas and San Diego in the coming days. I'm a United fan, both games easily accessible for me, I'm not going to either. Why? Because the games don't fcuking matter. Its a fitness exercise and I've never in 44 years of my life given a single sh1te about how a players form was in preseason.

[LurcherLover]

If you think preseason doesn't matter or has no bearing towards the beginning of the season, then(not to be rude) but you literally haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Preseason is very important in the modern game. Especially, if you're trying to hit the ground running, as a striker, at the start of the season for a club you haven't been scoring for and your fellow club mates are banging in goals in preseason(i.e Idah). Once the season starts, it's very difficult for coaches to push players physically as the turnaround of games is far too quick for recovery etc; Preseason would be extremely important for Idah given his record of injuries also. Games, minutes, strategy are planned out meticulously so they are in prime condition come the start of the season. But yeah, managers and coaches are just putting top athletes through a preseason for the craic and it has no importance because a fan doesn't want to go and watch the games.

[pineapple stu]

It's not deflecting, it's not caring that a lad who was on a beach last week has a bit of rustiness in a training match.

Man United are playing games in Vegas and San Diego in the coming days. I'm a United fan, both games easily accessible for me, I'm not going to either. Why? Because the games don't fcuking matter. Its a fitness exercise and I've never in 44 years of my life given a single sh1te about how a players form was in preseason.

And I would have thought everyone would have taken the pre-season nature as read in the context of the game.

But this nonsense of posting silly stuff about 5-a-side or making up excuses for him does get a bit tiresome, especially in light of your self-professed over-optimism on players.

[Razors left peg]

If you think preseason doesn't matter or has no bearing towards the beginning of the season, then(not to be rude) but you literally haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Preseason is very important in the modern game. Especially, if you're trying to hit the ground running, as a striker, at the start of the season for a club you haven't been scoring for and your fellow club mates are banging in goals in preseason(i.e Idah). Once the season starts, it's very difficult for coaches to push players physically as the turnaround of games is far too quick for recovery etc; Preseason would be extremely important for Idah given his record of injuries also. Games, minutes, strategy are planned out meticulously so they are in prime condition come the start of the season. But yeah, managers and coaches are just putting top athletes through a preseason for the craic and it has no importance because a fan doesn't want to go and watch the games.

Preseason is for fitness, clubs often tend to play a lot of youngsters in preseason games because they are irrelevant. Troy Parrott was good in preseason for Spurs a couple seasons ago, it had zero relevance to him getting anywhere near the 1st team. Last season Killian Phillips played a lot of preseason for Crystal Palace, I think there was one big game in particular in Asia against Liverpool (or some other big team) in front of about 70,000 fans, irrelevant when it came to the real stuff. Anyone banging on any player for rustiness in 1st preseason game needs to cop on a bit.

I get there isnt a lot going on at the moment and we are all looking forward to the leagues starting back up but

[Razors left peg]

And I would have thought everyone would have taken the pre-season nature as read in the context of the game.

But this nonsense of posting silly stuff about 5-a-side or making up excuses for him does get a bit tiresome, especially in light of your self-professed over-optimism on players.

The 5 a side probably has more importance than a training game against a non league team

[Stuttgart88]

If you think preseason doesn't matter or has no bearing towards the beginning of the season, then(not to be rude) but you literally haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Preseason is very important in the modern game. Especially, if you're trying to hit the ground running, as a striker, at the start of the season for a club you haven't been scoring for and your fellow club mates are banging in goals in preseason(i.e Idah). Once the season starts, it's very difficult for coaches to push players physically as the turnaround of games is far too quick for recovery etc; Preseason would be extremely important for Idah given his record of injuries also. Games, minutes, strategy are planned out meticulously so they are in prime condition come the start of the season. But yeah, managers and coaches are just putting top athletes through a preseason for the craic and it has no importance because a fan doesn't want to go and watch the games.

A bit of an extreme interpretation of what he said, no?

Regardless of physical sharpness I think it was apoor miss. Surely the way to convert that chance was hard at the near post, away from the 'keepers centre of gravity. Aim at/near the post, let it curl inside it. I think it betrayed a lack of a clinical striker's instinct imho.

As for Duffy, I'd like to have seen Krul's full role in it before fully blaming him, though of course it looked terrible. Did Krul start his run late? Did he shout? I always think a firm header back over 10-15 metres is less risky than a gentle, guided header back over only 5 or 6 metres. I'm not convinced Krul read the whole situation well.

[pineapple stu]

As for Duffy, I'd like to have seen Krul's full role in it before fully blaming him, though of course it looked terrible. Did Krul start his run late? Did he shout? I always think a firm header back over 10-15 metres is less risky than a gentle, guided header back over only 5 or 6 metres. I'm not convinced Krul read the whole situation well.
Yeah, there's almost certainly the proverbial pair of them in that one alright, though Krul being off camera puts the optics all on Duffy. There doesn't seem the need to put that deliberate loop on the header back though?

[Stuttgart88]

Probably not but if Krul had been on his line before a late run out, it wouldn't have been a mad thing to do.

There was a similar incident in the Dundalk v Rovers game on Friday. Pohls came charging out and Hoare put a header past him and had to rush back to clear his own header off the line. Looked to be completely Pohls' fault to me.

[CraftyToePoke]

Winning goal six minutes into injury time after coming on in the 86th minute for this busted flush of a forward.

[samhaydenjr]

Winning goal six minutes into injury time after coming on in the 86th minute for this busted flush of a forward.

Good start to a season that, while probably not make or break for him, is going to be important in his development. At least he's got this and his first international goal to build on

[Olé Olé]

Good start to a season that, while probably not make or break for him, is going to be important in his development. At least he's got this and his first international goal to build on
I agree on the make or break point. He's still young enough at 22 to crack double digits as a centre forward not for another 2-3 years. My bigger issue would be not cracking double digits due to injury, of which he has had a few, and the long term impact.

Staying fit for the season now would be progress in my view.

[Trequartista20]

Starts tonight at QPR in the League Cup.

Springett, Omobamidele and Duffy start as well.

[Razors left peg]

Starts tonight at QPR in the League Cup.

4 Irish lads in the Norwich team tonight. Idah, Springett, Omobamidele and Duffy. Sinclair Armstrong not on bench for QPR so they obviously see him as starter in league games now.

Big night for Idah I think, needs to play very well to force his way in there.

[Predator]

Got 70 minutes and was up against it as QPR sat deep, but did well. He might need to be patient this season as Barnes and Sargent have looked very effective when playing.

Tony Springett limped off during the game, which is not nice for him as he was on the verge of breaking in.

[pineapple stu]

On after 14 minutes for Josh Sergeant, who had already scored. 3-0 to Norwich now, with Idah assisting the third. May get more game time in the coming weeks depending on the nature of Sergeant's injury

[SkStu]

Goal for Idah (I think my other thread should be taken out the back and shot :) )

[pineapple stu]

This Wagner uprising against his former employer is going better than another one I could mention...

(Too soon? :p)

[tommy_c12000]

Assist and really nice finish for his goal. Two goals and an assist in 4 sub appearances this year. Great start for him. Hopefully Sargent out for a while. Still hope

[samhaydenjr]

In 89 minutes of play, Idah's already matched his scoring record from 1125 minutes last season - our pecking order up front is really changeable - Connolly was being written off but now after 5 goals in nine appearances for Hull, he's back on the radar. Idah's form looked like it might be putting his place in the international set-up at risk, in the short-term anyway - now it's looking like this could be the break-out season we've been waiting three and a half years for (early doors, I know). Sinclair Armstrong has put himself into the mix now that he's starting at QPR. Meanwhile, Troy Parrott's move surely calls his place into question (again short-term). So what does this mean for the upcoming fixtures - Idah holds his place in the pecking order over Keane? Connolly in and Parrott out? Armstrong brought in as a barnstorming impact sub?

[Eirambler]

Armstrong apparently isn't in contention. I don't think the squad announcement will be particularly eventful in terms of the forward positions (or at all). From the last squad Johnston and Obafemi are out injured, so Ogbene and Keane will probably come back in. Robinson probably hasn't played enough football but might be an option also.

I'd like to see Parrott relocated to the Under 21s and Connolly brought in as an option off the bench, but it won't happen. But then I'd like to see a lot of things done differently that won't be under the current management. Hopefully we just need to suffer it for another few games and then maybe we can try something different. Sometimes different can be worse but that seems unlikely in this case.

[pineapple stu]

Dropped last night after a couple of starts in a row. But came on before the hour when Barnes went off with potential ligament injury.

Norwich have already lost Sergent for a couple of months (maybe till the end of the year) and signed Hwang from Nottingham Forest to fill out the squad. Now they may have to do without Barnes for an extended period too. Could give Idah an extended run in the team (provided he doesn't get injured himself of course), but he's not been great since the couple of early goals (which admittedly is just four games ago). The Pinkun Norwich site said he "again looked good when facing goal but struggled with his hold-up play and suffered with his loose control", which reads slightly unusual as I suppose we'd be more used to seeing him being ok at holding the ball up but fairly weak when facing goal.

[Stuttgart88]

Ah I think his hold up play is often poor tbh

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough. I think it's about the only thing he has shown in his time in green, away to Portugal and home to France in particular.

[seanfhear]

Fair enough. I think it's about the only thing he has shown in his time in green, away to Portugal and home to France in particular.
It actually appears to be the better part of his game for Ireland alright !

[Predator]

I thought Idah's best game for Ireland was probably the away game against Portugal, when he really ruffled the feathers of Ruben Dias and Pepe. Since then, he hasn't really kicked on. Injuries and lack of confidence have hindered him.

One of the criticisms levelled at him from a Norwich fan on the BBC phone-in post-match was that he seemed to be out of sync with the rest of the team, that you could give him another ball and he'd play his own game.

If it turns out Barnes is injured and out for a while, he really needs to step up to the mark and seize the chance.

[Olé Olé]

His endless cycles of form are getting tiresome. Not sure what the issue is but one would think the international window was good for confidence so it can't be that. Form and injuries are significantly impacting him and his club gametime and output.

[Razors left peg]

His endless cycles of form are getting tiresome. Not sure what the issue is but one would think the international window was good for confidence so it can't be that. Form and injuries are significantly impacting him and his club gametime and output.

Hes only 22. Young players always have ups and downs in form, especially when they are always getting injured. A successful season for Idah this year is just to play the full thing without having to miss 2 or 3 months with injury, that would be a decent starting point for him to kick on. Troy Parrott similarly, at 21 lets see if he can be injury free.

Im not saying Parrott or Idah can be world class, but if you look at Callum Wilson or Ollie Watkins as examples of players who really kicked on in their mid to late 20s I still think the talent is there for Idah and Parrott to become very decent Premiership players.

Even if we look closer to home, most of us had written off Aaron Connolly. Hes starting to show that maybe we dismissed him too soon. Its a long season yet but he looks excellent so far and I wouldnt be surprised to see him get 20 goals this season, a year ago I thought he'd be closer to being back at Galway United by now.

[samhaydenjr]

His endless cycles of form are getting tiresome. Not sure what the issue is but one would think the international window was good for confidence so it can't be that. Form and injuries are significantly impacting him and his club gametime and output.


Hes only 22. Young players always have ups and downs in form, especially when they are always getting injured. A successful season for Idah this year is just to play the full thing without having to miss 2 or 3 months with injury, that would be a decent starting point for him to kick on. Troy Parrott similarly, at 21 lets see if he can be injury free.

Im not saying Parrott or Idah can be world class, but if you look at Callum Wilson or Ollie Watkins as examples of players who really kicked on in their mid to late 20s I still think the talent is there for Idah and Parrott to become very decent Premiership players.

Even if we look closer to home, most of us had written off Aaron Connolly. Hes starting to show that maybe we dismissed him too soon. Its a long season yet but he looks excellent so far and I wouldnt be surprised to see him get 20 goals this season, a year ago I thought he'd be closer to being back at Galway United by now.

I think the frustration stems from how prolific he was at underage and then he broke through with that FA Cup hat-trick before his nineteenth birthday and we felt almost as excited about him as we do about Ferguson now. but that was three and three quarter years ago and he hasn't become the star we hoped he would be by now. But, as Razor said, he's still only 22 - when you consider the ages that some of our main strikers over the last 35 years established themselves as top flight strikers, then you realize that he definitely still has time - Aldridge: 27; Cascarino: 26; Walters: 27; Doyle: 23; Niall Quinn broke though at Arsenal aged 20, but then spent 3 years as a fringe player.

Right now Idah's career path actually most resembles Shane Long's: early breakthrough followed by a couple of PL seasons as a secondary striker - given more time after relegation but still took a couple of seasons to start to fulfil his potential

[Olé Olé]

Hes only 22. Young players always have ups and downs in form, especially when they are always getting injured. A successful season for Idah this year is just to play the full thing without having to miss 2 or 3 months with injury, that would be a decent starting point for him to kick on. Troy Parrott similarly, at 21 lets see if he can be injury free.

Im not saying Parrott or Idah can be world class, but if you look at Callum Wilson or Ollie Watkins as examples of players who really kicked on in their mid to late 20s I still think the talent is there for Idah and Parrott to become very decent Premiership players.

Even if we look closer to home, most of us had written off Aaron Connolly. Hes starting to show that maybe we dismissed him too soon. Its a long season yet but he looks excellent so far and I wouldnt be surprised to see him get 20 goals this season, a year ago I thought he'd be closer to being back at Galway United by now.
Ah yeah, I agree with you overall here, specifically with regards to Idah. A bit of impatience on my part really. In terms of strikers and the timing of their development, you only need to look closer to home for Idah at Ashley Barnes. Barely got to double digits in his travails up and down the football pyramid until he was 30 in the Premiership for Burnley.

Whatever about Parrott, Idah is definitely the sort of striker that comes good later. See also Didier Drogba.

The cycle is just tiresome is all. But natural. Wish he could sustain the spurts for longer.

[pineapple stu]

he's still only 22 - when you consider the ages that some of our main strikers over the last 35 years established themselves as top flight strikers, then you realize that he definitely still has time - Aldridge: 27; Cascarino: 26; Walters: 27; Doyle: 23; Niall Quinn broke though at Arsenal aged 20, but then spent 3 years as a fringe player.
Some of those comparisons are a bit unfair though given Idah hasn't even established himself as a striker at any senior level yet. Doyle at Idah's age was half-way through 19 goals for Reading in the Championship, Quinn had just moved to Man City after 20 goals at one of the top clubs in England and he hit the ground running at City, Cascarino had about 50 goals (in the third tier) and Aldridge - who always was an anomaly anyway - had played in a European quarter final and was moving up the leagues. Even Shane Long had roughly twice as many goals from twice as many games including twice as many starts by this stage. Walters is about the only reasonable comparison (a League Two player)

I think the bigger concerns are that (a) he still doesn't seem to have a killer instinct in front of goal, as typified by the chance in the opening minute of the France game and (b) successive Norwich managers (Farke, Smith, Wagner) can't really find a role for him apart from as a utility player/impact sub.

[ifk101]

Concerns? :-)

Maybe on a personal level. He's had knee problems and has had a long time out of the game - not exactly good that a young player is having these injury issues and a worry for the length of his future career. But I think he has done fine for us to date, even if performances have been inconsistent and a bit up and down. Nevertheless 18 senior caps at 22 is quite a good return. And he's on a goal scoring streak for us atm; 2 goals in 3 games.

[pineapple stu]

Nevertheless 18 senior caps at 22 is quite a good return. And he's on a goal scoring streak for us atm; 2 goals in 3 games.
I can hear the screams of the stats being tortured from here ifk. :)

Yes, he has 18 caps, but that's mainly because we're desperate for options up front. Can you name a less effective player to have gotten so many caps for us?

And that hot goal streak is a penalty, and a late goal against a tired part-time Gibraltar side. It's not exactly stellar stuff.

And yes, he's had injuries (but he's had a clear run this year and not been able to nail down a starting spot), and yes, he's two-third of the way to his record league goals tally in a season. So maybe he's improving. Or maybe at some stage we'll have to face the possibility that he's not all that good.

[ifk101]

I can hear the screams of the stats being tortured from here ifk. :)

He keeps a clean sheet in every game he plays as well.


Yes, he has 18 caps, but that's mainly because we're desperate for options up front. Can you name a less effective player to have gotten so many caps for us?

Your definition of effective is different than mine. I think he is an effective striker, but a prolific goalscorer he'll never be. But to entertain your thought - Simon Cox? Andy Keogh? Daryl Murphy?


And that hot goal streak is a penalty, and a late goal against a tired part-time Gibraltar side. It's not exactly stellar stuff.

They are goals, and goals in competitive games.


And yes, he's had injuries (but he's had a clear run this year and not been able to nail down a starting spot), and yes, he's two-third of the way to his record league goals tally in a season. So maybe he's improving. Or maybe at some stage we'll have to face the possibility that he's not all that good.

He has 18 caps at 22 years old. Obviously good enough to play for us.

[pineapple stu]

But to entertain your thought - Simon Cox? Andy Keogh? Daryl Murphy?
Decent nominations for sure. I'd have any of them ahead of Idah though. Wouldn't see them as being as ineffective as Idah was against Greece and Luxembourg (his two most recent starts before this month)


Obviously good enough to play for us.
Talk about damning with faint praise. When Armstrong and Afolabi are next in line, you can see it doesn't take much to get a game for us up front.

Anyway, it appears Barnes may be out for two months (https://punditarena.com/football/ronan/norwich-manager-says-adam-idah-is-making-big-steps-this-season/), and with Sargent out too, that should give Idah another go at staking a claim for a starter spot. His manager has come out with the obligatory praise of course. But he needs to make hay here though I think.

[Razors left peg]

Decent nominations for sure. I'd have any of them ahead of Idah though. Wouldn't see them as being as ineffective as Idah was against Greece and Luxembourg (his two most recent starts before this month)


Talk about damning with faint praise. When Armstrong and Afolabi are next in line, you can see it doesn't take much to get a game for us up front.

Anyway, it appears Barnes may be out for two months (https://punditarena.com/football/ronan/norwich-manager-says-adam-idah-is-making-big-steps-this-season/), and with Sargent out too, that should give Idah another go at staking a claim for a starter spot. His manager has come out with the obligatory praise of course. But he needs to make hay here though I think.

You'd have Andy Keogh over Idah?