Nathan Collins D Brentford b.2001

[JR89]

Think that will make him their club record signing. Also now holds the 1st and 2nd spot for most expensive fee paid for an Irish player.

[joey B]

Deal completed on a 6 year contract…

[JR89]

Deal completed on a 6 year contract…

And Brentford have the option to extend it by another two years also. They also confirm it's for a club record fee.

[pineapple stu]

So effectively an eight year deal? That's mad. Can't remember many players getting an eight year deal before.

[joey B]

Chelsea started doing it last year with some of their big signings coming on 8 year deals,UEFA actually changed the rules afterwards to limit amortisation on transfer fees to 5 years no matter the lenght of the contract.....

[JR89]

That length of contract you'd expect he's been well looked after financially or there's a buy out clause included. Wouldn't want to be signing for 8 years and not having a way out if after a few seasons you're attracting interest from bigger clubs.

[EalingGreen]

So effectively an eight year deal? That's mad. Can't remember many players getting an eight year deal before.
No, not "effectively", just potentially. That is, the option will only be exercised if BFC are happy with his first six years and/or they don't receive a suitable offer from elsewhere beforehand.

And I say "suitable", since as a selling club, every player at the club has his price, adjusted up or down according to the market. And this applies from Day One, since no sooner have they signed someone, than they're sizing up potential replacements.

For example, they signed Scott Hogan, late of this parish, for £750k in July 2014. They sold him to Villa for a big profit (£8m?)in January 2017, with Neal Maupay lined up to join them later in the summer from Ligue 2 for £1.6m. In August 2019 they sold Maupay to Brighton for £20m, and replaced him at No.9 with Ollie Watkins, who'd joined them two years earlier from Exeter for £1.8m, as a young winger. Watkins scored 25 league goals the following season, earning him a £32m transfer (incl add-ons) to Villa. At which point they signed Ivan Toney from P'boro for £5m + £5m add-ons.

Each player has been better than the one preceeding him, with (gambling habit notwithstanding) Toney the best/most valuable of the lot (imo). Meanwhile, they signed a young German winger, Kevin Schade, at the begining of this year for £20m-odd from Freiburg, who has since made his senior German NT debut. And although he's not made a huge impact just yet, I suspect he's being lined up to replace Toney at centre-forward when the time comes for him to depart.

My point being that Brentford's recruitment processes are amongst the very best in the PL, so that they don't splash out Collins-money on a player without having a very clear plan* for his time at the club. Of course no club ever gets it right every time, but if I were an ROI fan, I'd be very excited by this move, especially since his last couple of moves didn't really work out.

The other thing about the club is that they manage their finances extremely well. For although they're extremely ambitious, and certainly won't be satisfied with another 9th place finish next season, they're also very mindful of what can go wrong. Having now survived two seasons in the PL, they are now reassured that in the event of relegation, they would now qualify for 3 years parachute payments rather than one. Which means they would not have to conduct a "fire-sale" of players if they should get relegated and can amortise Collins' transfer fee in the accounts over a 5 or 6 year period to tide them over the financial hit.


* - It wouldn't surprise me if they hoped to do a John Stones with him?

[EalingGreen]

That length of contract you'd expect he's been well looked after financially or there's a buy out clause included. Wouldn't want to be signing for 8 years and not having a way out if after a few seasons you're attracting interest from bigger clubs.If there is a buy-out clause, it will more likely be in the club's favour than the player's.

For no harm to Collins, who I think is a good prospect, if you look at his career to date, he probably wasn't in a position to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL.

That is, two and a half injury-hit seasons in the Championship at Stoke, where he played 39 league games, followed by a season at Burnley (19 PL games, then relegation) and a season at Wolves (26 PL games, nearly relegated). Brentford have a history of taking a long-term view on players who might have a few question marks on their CV, but not every club does, especially those with a new manager who is expected to get results straightaway i.e. half of them!

[Olé Olé]

If there is a buy-out clause, it will more likely be in the club's favour than the player's.

For no harm to Collins, who I think is a good prospect, if you look at his career to date, he probably wasn't in a position to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL.

That is, two and a half injury-hit seasons in the Championship at Stoke, where he played 39 league games, followed by a season at Burnley (19 PL games, then relegation) and a season at Wolves (26 PL games, nearly relegated). Brentford have a history of taking a long-term view on players who might have a few question marks on their CV, but not every club does, especially those with a new manager who is expected to get results straightaway i.e. half of them!

I urge everyone to avoid feeding this troll.

[EalingGreen]

I urge everyone to avoid feeding this troll.What on earth was "troll-like" about any of my posts on the subject? :confused:

[Razors left peg]

I urge everyone to avoid feeding this troll.

The man just explained Brentfords business model with facts and figures and you are calling him a troll? Shot way wide there dude

[CraftyToePoke]

I urge everyone to avoid feeding this troll.

He's not trolling. And although not someone I'd be too bothered about having a pint with, a bit glib & smirky, he has posted also some good quality content in the LOI section of late across multiple threads incorporating some NIFL historical stuff.

[EalingGreen]

He's not trolling. And although not someone I'd be too bothered about having a pint with, a bit glib & smirky, he has posted also some good quality content in the LOI section of late across multiple threads incorporating some NIFL historical stuff."A bit glib and smirky" is it? It's probably a good thing you haven't met me with a few drinks in me!

Anyhow, thanks for the rest. :cool:

[ifk101]

What on earth was "troll-like" about any of my posts on the subject? :confused:

Not trolling, but glib and smirky. :-) Your first post was informative, second post reads as “fortunate to be in the PL, injury prone, got one club relegated, nearly got a second club relegated, his new club has a fondness for questionable CVs, one for the future”. Can understand Ole Ole’s objection as why flippantly summarise the career of a now established senior international on an Ireland forum when you make it clear you are not a fan of the team (free tickets aside) if not for the glib and smirky angle.

But agree Brentford breaking their transfer record for Collins is a good signal – given their past transfer dealings they consider Collins under-valued at their highest ever paid transfer fee. Needs to iron out some youthful sloppy exuberance in his game, but otherwise the kid’s a beast and hopefully Brentford have the financials to hold on to him for an extended period so that he has a settled environment to improve without upheaval.

[EalingGreen]

Not trolling, but glib and smirky. :-) Your first post was informative, second post reads as “fortunate to be in the PL, injury prone, got one club relegated, nearly got a second club relegated, his new club has a fondness for questionable CVs, one for the future”. Can understand Ole Ole’s objection as why flippantly summarise the career of a now established senior international on an Ireland forum when you make it clear you are not a fan of the team (free tickets aside) if not for the glib and smirky angle.

But agree Brentford breaking their transfer record for Collins is a good signal – given their past transfer dealings they consider Collins under-valued at their highest ever paid transfer fee. Needs to iron out some youthful sloppy exuberance in his game, but otherwise the kid’s a beast and hopefully Brentford have the financials to hold on to him for an extended period so that he has a settled environment to improve without upheaval.You're not reading what I wrote/intended, you're taking from it something you imagine me to mean. My point was that if you look at his CV, due to injuries and unfortunate club transfers, his progress has been patchy.

Or as the BBC's reporter today put it:
"The Premier League is a hard school. For players like Nathan Collins, doing their learning on one of the most public stages in sport, it’s perhaps no surprise that progress is uneven – and all the more so when they haven’t yet put down footballing roots."

And as I said, this is the sort of thing which puts many other PL clubs off - i.e. they have the money to pay for ready-made players, and/or demand instant success. But I would bet that I have more first hand experience of Brentford than any other poster on this forum, and so highlighted their ability to spot underrated players with potential and develop them into an asset which improves the team and adds real transfer value to them. For example, should NC form part of a back three, he could be playing alongside Ethan Pinnock. At 23, Pinnock was still playing for Dulwich Hamlet. He then went to Forest Green (Lge Two) followed by Barnsley (Lge One), from where BFC signed him. Last season Pinnock was one of the best CB's in the PL, even at the age of 30. While NC's other colleague could be Ben Mee. Let go at 32 by relegated Burnley, everyone assumed that was the end of his career at the top level. Yet BFC signed him on a free, to captain the team, where he too was outstanding last season. (Just look at BFC's defensive stats).

Moreover, I highlighted the fact that BFC don't just sign any old player because they "think he's a bit good". I said they would have a plan for him, possibly a John Stones-type role, which I'd have thought was very complimentary. Anyhow, look at what the player himself is saying today:
"[Me and Thomas Frank] have talked a lot. He’s said what he likes about me and has a plan in place."

And then there's what Frank himself says:
"His character is really good, and we know that character is everything. He will fit into our culture, I have no doubt about that. I see leadership potential in Nathan. He’s a perfect Brentford player - hungry and ambitious with a desire to learn."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/brentford
All of which I might have written myself - in fact I actually did, pretty much!

As for your clear insinuation that I was somehow doing the player down, presumably because I'm an NI fan, then did you miss the bit where I posted: "If I were an ROI fan, I'd be very excited by this move"?

Since that was a clear and umbiguous commendation for both player and transfer, may I ask that next time you drop the prejudicial mindset and judge me on what I actually post?

[Olé Olé]

If there is a buy-out clause, it will more likely be in the club's favour than the player's.

For no harm to Collins, who I think is a good prospect, if you look at his career to date, he probably wasn't in a position to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL.

That is, two and a half injury-hit seasons in the Championship at Stoke, where he played 39 league games, followed by a season at Burnley (19 PL games, then relegation) and a season at Wolves (26 PL games, nearly relegated). Brentford have a history of taking a long-term view on players who might have a few question marks on their CV, but not every club does, especially those with a new manager who is expected to get results straightaway i.e. half of them!


"he probably wasn't in a position to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL" - Brentford have paid £23m for him. I doubt many sides in the Championship would shop in that price range. And I'm sure he would have stayed with Wolves if nobody met the asking price. So he didn't have to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL. His PL status wasn't at risk;
"two and a half injury-hit seasons in the Championship at Stoke, where he played 39 league games" - he made his debut in defence at 18 and clocked up 39 games in defence by the age of 20;
"a season a Burnley (19 PL games, then relegation)" - 19 league games in the Premiership, mostly at the age of 20; same point re Wolves, he played 26 games which isn't anything to be sniffed at.

In my view, you are sharing a biased view regarding his club history and your overall assessment of his club history is clearly coming in with a poorer rating than managers at the 3 Premiership clubs who have now paid tens of millions for him. As I said, his retention of Premiership status was never at risk and the "question marks" on his CV clearly haven't impacted his value or desirability - no matter what way you try to spin them.

[EalingGreen]

"he probably wasn't in a position to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL" - Brentford have paid £23m for him. I doubt many sides in the Championship would shop in that price range.

Last season, Brentford had the second lowest wages bill in the Prem (ahead only of Bpournemouth). If they were paying a club record transfer fee, plus a competitive package, they are clearly pushing the boat out. Do you really imagine they were also going to concede over extras? As a club, they are known for having their terms, beyond which they will not go - see eg their telling Spurs they pay £40m for Raya, or he goes nowhere. Or having chased him for two transfer windows, they offered £28m for Mudryk, Shaktar wanted another £5m (I think) and BFC said no. Chelsea paid £60m to get him in the next window.



And I'm sure he would have stayed with Wolves if nobody met the asking price. So he didn't have to make demands if he wanted to stay in the PL. His PL status wasn't at risk;
Lopetegui has stated that he wants to buy new players, otherwise he has threatened to leave. Except that Wolves are screwed over FFP (I suspect they didn't tell him that when he joined), meaning the only way he'll get any budget is if they sell first. And if you look at Collins' record at Molineux after the New Year (i.e. once Lopetegui had settled in), he got progressively fewer starts and less game time. Meanwhile, Wolves signed a 33 y.o. CB, Craig Dawson, on a free from WHU at the end of the January window. In other words, Lopetegui didn't fancy Collins. Which is no reflection on Collins - it often happens with managers, especially new ones, but it does indicate there was nothing down for Collins at the club.



"two and a half injury-hit seasons in the Championship at Stoke, where he played 39 league games" - he made his debut in defence at 18 and clocked up 39 games in defence by the age of 20;

"a season a Burnley (19 PL games, then relegation)" - 19 league games in the Premiership, mostly at the age of 20; same point re Wolves, he played 26 games which isn't anything to be sniffed at.No-one is denying that he is/was a "prospect" - the very word I used, but you appear to have ignored. But through bad luck with injuries, and a couple of transfers which didn't really work out, his career trajectory has been interrupted - "patchy" as I called it, "uneven" as the BBC termed it.

But my point was that since they cannot compete with the Big Boys on transfer fees or wages, Brentford often rely on picking up under-appreciated assets and advancing their careers carefully. Collins falls precisely within that category, which is why I predict he can potentially be a big success at the GTech.

As for Burnley, a month after Kompany arrived, he (Kompany) clearly decided he'd rather have the transfer fee than the player. Again, that's not a reflection on Collins, but it was more disruption to his nascent career. Which is why on this latest occasion, there were no other PL clubs in for NC, certainly none of the Big Clubs*, meaning Brentford got a free run.

* - If he proves to be a success at Brentford, they will be happy to come back in another two or three seasons and pay £40m+ for the finished article, another reason why BFC signed him on a long contract i.e. gives the club more leverage, rather than the player.


In my view, you are sharing a biased view regarding his club history and your overall assessment of his club history is clearly coming in with a poorer rating than managers at the 3 Premiership clubs who have now paid tens of millions for him. As I said, his retention of Premiership status was never at risk and the "question marks" on his CV clearly haven't impacted his value or desirability - no matter what way you try to spin them.My comments were less a reflection on the player and his clear potential, and more a reflection on how the transfer market works generally, and how Brentford work specifically.

I don't think you understand either of these last two, but are looking for advertse criticism in my comments where none should be inferred. And I think I know why: "He's one of Themmuns, so he's not capable of objectivity, he's only out to do our players down"

Which is the last I shall say on the matter, other than to predict that Collins can be a big success at the GTech, considering how frequently and successfully they find rough diamonds to polish.

[Olé Olé]

Last season, Brentford had the second lowest wages bill in the Prem (ahead only of Bpournemouth). If they were paying a club record transfer fee, plus a competitive package, they are clearly pushing the boat out. Do you really imagine they were also going to concede over extras? As a club, they are known for having their terms, beyond which they will not go - see eg their telling Spurs they pay £40m for Raya, or he goes nowhere. Or having chased him for two transfer windows, they offered £28m for Mudryk, Shaktar wanted another £5m (I think) and BFC said no. Chelsea paid £60m to get him in the next window.


Lopetegui has stated that he wants to buy new players, otherwise he has threatened to leave. Except that Wolves are screwed over FFP (I suspect they didn't tell him that when he joined), meaning the only way he'll get any budget is if they sell first. And if you look at Collins' record at Molineux after the New Year (i.e. once Lopetegui had settled in), he got progressively fewer starts and less game time. Meanwhile, Wolves signed a 33 y.o. CB, Craig Dawson, on a free from WHU at the end of the January window. In other words, Lopetegui didn't fancy Collins. Which is no reflection on Collins - it often happens with managers, especially new ones, but it does indicate there was nothing down for Collins at the club.

No-one is denying that he is/was a "prospect" - the very word I used, but you appear to have ignored. But thrpough bad luck with injuries, and a couple of transfers which didn't really work out, his career trajectory has been interrupted - "patchy" as I called it, "uneven" as the BBC termed it.

But my point was that since they cannot compete with the Big Boys on transfer fees or wages, Brentford often rely on picking up inder-appreciated assets and advancing their careers carefully. Collins falls precisely within that category, which is why I predict he can potentially be a big success at the GTech.

As for Burnley, a month after Kompany arrived, he (Kompany) clearly decided he'd rather have the transfer fee than the player. Again, that's not a reflection on Collins, but it was more disruption to his nascent career. Which is why there were no other PL clubs in for NC, certainly none of the Big Clubs*, meaning Brentford got a free run.

* - If he proves to be a success at Brentford, they will be happy to come back in another two or three seasons and pay £40m+ for the finished article, another reason why BFC signed him on a long contract i.e.gives the club more leverage, rather than the player).

My comments were less a reflection on the player and his clear potential, and more a reflection on how the transfer market works generally, and how Brentford work specifically.

I don't think you understand either of these last two, but are looking for advertse criticism in my comments where none should be inferred. And I think I know why: "He's one of Themmuns, so he's not capable of objectivity, he's only out to do our players down"

Which is the last I shall say on the matter, other than to predict that Collins can be a big success at the GTech, considering how frequently and successfully they find rough diamonds to polish.

Glib. Smirky.

[John83]

Take it easy, Olé. You've made your points, EG's made his.

[Razors left peg]

Bit weird that Wolves have sold Kilman to Napoli today too. First of all I wouldn't have thought he's good enough to go there, but you would have though Wolves would have kept one of them

[SkStu]

I’m sure you’re aware but Wolves are in truly dire financial situation with the FFP rules. Some say worse than Everton. But they have decent assets to sell. Anyway, they’re probably taking offers on everyone given how much they need transfer cash and significant cuts to their wage bill.

(but you look at the moves teams like Chelsea make and it just doesn’t seem to add up…willing investor the difference?)

[Razors left peg]

They probably shouldn't have signed 5 midfielders last January

[SkStu]

They probably shouldn't have signed 5 midfielders last January

You have a future as their business advisor Razor. :)

[pineapple stu]

They've sold Conor Coady too I see. He was on loan at Everton last season but still, three international centre-backs gone in a week doesn't bode well for them alright.

(Strangely, wiki says Kilman can't now represent Ukraine, where his parents are from, because he's tied to England by virtue of futsal caps)

[EalingGreen]

I’m sure you’re aware but Wolves are in truly dire financial situation with the FFP rules. Some say worse than Everton. But they have decent assets to sell. Anyway, they’re probably taking offers on everyone given how much they need transfer cash and significant cuts to their wage bill.

(but you look at the moves teams like Chelsea make and it just doesn’t seem to add up…willing investor the difference?)Chelsea are different from Wolves in three respects:
1. As well as being a "bigger" club all round in revenue terms (commercial, sponsorship, matchday etc), they've also trousered a huge amount of European money;
2. They have also received surprising amounts of money for young players they've developed, whether from their Academy, or bought on the cheap from elsewhere eg Guehi £18m, Abraham £34m, Zouma £18m profit; Tomori £24m; Loftus-Cheek £15m and, of course, Mount £50m. (Also a big number of lesser players for smaller profits);
3. The transfer fees for players they have signed recently have been amortised in the books over 6, 7 or 8 year contracts - the equivalent of sticking it on the company credit card.

Of course it could still all go horribly wrong for them if they don't quickly get back to winning ways, including qualifying for the CL etc, so as to recoup their latest outlays. But I wouldn't wish that upon them, would I?

Oh no, not at all, terrible shame and all that... :)

[Trequartista20]

Starts today.

[JR89]

Good to see him starting. Could see him being the one that drops out initially if Brentford switch to a back four but think he'll get plenty of minutes this season because they use both formations a lot. Fact he's out of what a hot mess Wolves is becoming is the main thing.

[passinginterest]

He’ll be disappointed with the goal they’ve just conceded. He’ll argue he was fouled but he was shrugged off a bit too easy and kept his man onside. It was a great delivery in his defence, very hard to defend.

[tommy_c12000]

Agree, culpable for the goal. Poor positioning and weak. His defensive frailties remain a concern

[ifk101]

The goal looked like a new boy not yet fully in sync with the rest of the backline. Disappointing but wouldn't be too harsh on him.

On a positive note, it was Collins that broke up a Spurs attack and subsequently showed the composure to set in motion the Brentford attack that led to the penalty decision.

[EalingGreen]

Was at the game. Collins was decent enough, at least when you consider it was his debut for a new team, in front of another debutant gk, and up against opponents who were clearly up for it, including forcing Brentford into a low block, esp in the 2nd half. (Spurs had 70% possession).

BFC were missing Ben Mee (injured), who certainly would have started if fit. Though I still think NC would have kept his place, since BFC also included Ajer on the left of their back three. Which is strange, since he's predominantly a RB who can also fill in at CB (he's 6ft 5 in). Tbh, Ajer wasn't very good and was eventually replaced by Xanka, who many (most?) Bees fans thought might have started ahead of him anyhow. Funny thing is, Pinnock, who played in the middle of the 3 CB's is left footed and normally plays on that side. But as the senior of the 3 CB's I guess they needed him to anchor the defence, esp when up against Richarlison at No.9.

My guess is that if/when Mee is fit again, Pinnock will revert to Left CB, with Mee in the middle and Collins at Right CB. But if Frank goes 4 at the back, as they sometimes do depending on the opposition, I think Frank's selection may be Hickey (RB), Mee and Pinnock (CB's) and Henry (LB). This would fit in with BFC's ethos of bedding players into the Brentford way gradually, also the fact that both Mee and Pinnock were both outstanding last season.

Then again, I could be completely wrong. About all of that. :D

[JR89]

I'd say you're not far off. They'll likely play four at the back against Fulham with Collins dropping out. When Mee is back will likely be him and Pinnock starting with Collins, Ajer, and Zanka competing for the third spot when playing 3-5-2. Which they did for 17 league games last season going by Transfermarkt.

[Razors left peg]

I'd say you're not far off. They'll likely play four at the back against Fulham with Collins dropping out. When Mee is back will likely be him and Pinnock starting with Collins, Ajer, and Zanka competing for the third spot when playing 3-5-2. Which they did for 17 league games last season going by Transfermarkt.

Will they drop their club record transfer signing?

[EalingGreen]

Will they drop their club record transfer signing?Their previous record signing was 21 y.o. Schade (£20m) and he's on the sub's bench more often than not, incl Sunday. It looks as though he may be being lined up to replace Toney, who himself replaced Watkins, who in turn had replaced Maupay.

With a very settled ownership and management set-up, including recruitment, BFC operate a medium-long term transfer policy. When Pontus Jansson was running down his career at the club over the last couple of seasons, they signed Ben Mee on a free as an experienced replacement who could slot in in his place (also captain the side). And while Mee was outstanding last season, playing 37 of 38 PL games, fact is he'll be 34 in September.

I'd say NC is being groomed as Mee's successor, to be introduced to the starting XI as and when it suits both him and the team. When completely ready, he'll likely play alongside 30 y.o. Pinnock for another 2 or 3 seasons, before he (Pinnock) is phased out and/or NC is sold for a profit.

Which is not to say they cannot be flexible i.e. if NC develops quicker than expected, they'll throw him in sooner, while if it takes longer than expected, then he'll get the time he needs..

[EalingGreen]

Wasn't at the game, but by all accounts, NC was excellent in Brentford's 3-0 victory at Fulham y'day.

Notwithstanding what I wrote in the previous post, Thomas Frank is not one for favourites/reputations etc, meaning more performances from NC like this and Ben Mee might just find it hard enough to get back into the team again when fit?

[Predator]

I know Premier League clubs throw cash around like confetti these days, but it's rare that such money is spent on a player and they don't start games. The only way Brentford have a chance of getting a nice profit on Nathan Collins in a couple of years is if he is playing and playing well.

[EalingGreen]

I know Premier League clubs throw cash around like confetti these days, but it's rare that such money is spent on a player and they don't start games. The only way Brentford have a chance of getting a nice profit on Nathan Collins in a couple of years is if he is playing and playing well.No harm, but I think you're getting away ahead of yourself.

NC was 22 in April. BFC signed him on a six year contract, with a further two year option. Everything about that club is medium-long term, at least when it comes to recruitment. And even if they know they'll always be a selling club, ultimately the club exists to win football games, not sell players. And while Ben Mee will be 34 next month, Ethan Pinnock is still only 30 y.o., so the club is ok for CB's for another bit. All of which means the club has plenty of time to bed NC in. If it happens sooner than expected, great. But if it takes longer, then so be it.

Either way, since players generally reach their peak in their mid-20's, that is also when their sale value peaks. Meaning that unless someone comes in with a mad Caciedo-type offer for NC, then on those grounds alone, BFC won't be thinking of selling him for maybe another 3 or 4 years. Equally importantly, they run their finances so well (net profit in each of their last two PL seasons, I reckon), they don't need to sell him anytime soon, especially with Raya just gone to Arsenal for £30m and Toney liable to go for double that(?), if/when they decide to sell him.

Finally, BFC aren't just known for spotting talent early in the transfer market, they also develop them very well while at the club, so NC is in a very good place right now.

[irishfan86]

Collins was very good. Was playing at the right side of a back three -- and seemed more restrained than usual in terms of pushing forward. Made one very good last-man-back slide to save what would have been a sure goal. Had a couple of sloppy passes but overall seemed a steadier performance defensively than the first match.

[JR89]

Collins was very good. Was playing at the right side of a back three -- and seemed more restrained than usual in terms of pushing forward. Made one very good last-man-back slide to save what would have been a sure goal. Had a couple of sloppy passes but overall seemed a steadier performance defensively than the first match.

They played a back four against Fulham. Which bodes well for Collins that Thomas Frank dropped Ajer and preferred Collins to partner Pinnock.

[irishfan86]

They played a back four against Fulham. Which bodes well for Collins that Thomas Frank dropped Ajer and preferred Collins to partner Pinnock.

That was what the pre-game lineup showed (four at the back), but it seemed pretty clear to me for large portions of the match that it was in practice a back three.

[EalingGreen]

That was what the pre-game lineup showed (four at the back), but it seemed pretty clear to me for large portions of the match that it was in practice a back three.Never mind that BFC's FB's were able to get forward more than anticipated, esp Henry (an absolute flyer) and also after Fulham went down to 10 men, that was a back four which Frank picked for that game.

Frank picks his formations/tactics according to the opposition: Against a top team which is flying etc, esp away from home, it's usually a back 5. But against an equal or lesser team he normally goes back 4.

Anyhow, Ben Mee may be fit for Saturday (C.Palace at home), so it will be interesting to see whether he comes back in, or is on the bench (don't want/need to rush him).

[EalingGreen]

Played another 90 mins in a back four in Brentford's 2-2 home draw with Palace. Was at the game and would say he had another v.good game, marred only by a misjudgement for Palace's equaliser. (Didn't have a good view myself, but TV replay suggested that instead of blocking the attempt, he left it for the gk, but it went through the latter's legs).

Anyhow, Ben Mee wasn't yet fit to play yesterdfay, but almost certainly will be brought back in for BFC's League Cup game away to Bristol Rovers on Tuesday evening if fit. NC will probably make way for Mee, unless Frank decides to rest Pinnock instead.

[JR89]

Played another 90 mins in a back four in Brentford's 2-2 home draw with Palace. Was at the game and would say he had another v.good game, marred only by a misjudgement for Palace's equaliser. (Didn't have a good view myself, but TV replay suggested that instead of blocking the attempt, he left it for the gk, but it went through the latter's legs).

Anyhow, Ben Mee wasn't yet fit to play yesterdfay, but almost certainly will be brought back in for BFC's League Cup game away to Bristol Rovers on Tuesday evening if fit. NC will probably make way for Mee, unless Frank decides to rest Pinnock instead.

Even if the keeper calls for that you put it into row z and tell him where to go if he has an issue with it.

[EalingGreen]

Even if the keeper calls for that you put it into row z and tell him where to go if he has an issue with it.Apparently "Flekken had urged Collins to leave the ball, he duly jumped up and that allowed Andersen to cancel out Kevin Schade’s delightful first-half effort."

Anyhow, more about NC's settling in at Brentford here: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/nathan-collins-one-demand-after-30796660

[Eirambler]

In a split second moment like that, if the keeper calls you jump out of the way or else you get a deserved bollocking afterwards. That one's on Flekken.

[JR89]

In a split second moment like that, if the keeper calls you jump out of the way or else you get a deserved bollocking afterwards. That one's on Flekken.

Disagree, because now Collins looks like a fool for moving out the way and letting the player score.

[Eirambler]

You're judging it based on the outcome though, which Collins couldn't possibly have done in the circumstances. If the keeper calls for it, as a defender (and I'm speaking from experience here) you heed the call and trust that your keeper, who has a better view of the situation, has called it correctly. Of course, if he's messed up, which he did in this case, you end up looking like an idiot, but you can be certain Flekken's the one getting the blame in the Monday post match review for that.

[nigel-harps1954]

You're judging it based on the outcome though, which Collins couldn't possibly have done in the circumstances. If the keeper calls for it, as a defender (and I'm speaking from experience here) you heed the call and trust that your keeper, who has a better view of the situation, has called it correctly. Of course, if he's messed up, which he did in this case, you end up looking like an idiot, but you can be certain Flekken's the one getting the blame in the Monday post match review for that.

And speaking as a goalkeeper, and goalkeeper coach, you still rely on your defender making a split second decision based on what danger they see in front of them. Goalkeepers can mistake judgement too.

For me, if the keeper shouted, he takes partial blame, but Collins should still have recognised the danger and put the boot through it when it so was close to goal.

[Diggs246]

You're judging it based on the outcome though, which Collins couldn't possibly have done in the circumstances. If the keeper calls for it, as a defender (and I'm speaking from experience here) you heed the call and trust that your keeper, who has a better view of the situation, has called it correctly. Of course, if he's messed up, which he did in this case, you end up looking like an idiot, but you can be certain Flekken's the one getting the blame in the Monday post match review for that.

I was a defender too and under no circumstances would I rely on a keepers shout in those circumstances. Clear your lines... clear your lines

[EalingGreen]

Mee back in tonight in the EFL Cup away to Newport. Looks like a back three alongside Xanka and Ajer (squad players), with NC on the bench and Pinnock rested completely.

Basically this is a 'B' team, with only Janelt a regular Prem starter (Mee aside)