Nathan Collins D Brentford b.2001

[Eirambler]

The Mickey Evans win is explained here.

https://www.balls.ie/football/balls-remembers-mickey-evans-490534

He won the same number of Premier League player of the month awards as Ireland caps.

[tetsujin1979]

And that was only a joint winner.

Before that, you're going back to Jan 2001 when Keane won again (on his own). That's mad.

Also - Ireland's complete list of winners is Robbie Keane (three times), Roy Keane (twice) and...Mickey Evans. WTF happened then?!
it's a random one isn't it?
He scored four goals in four games that month, and then only scored one more goal for Southampton again!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/aug/29/napoli.barcelona

[pineapple stu]

The Mickey Evans win is explained here.

https://www.balls.ie/football/balls-remembers-mickey-evans-490534

He won the same number of Premier League player of the month awards as Ireland caps.

And he played as many minutes for Ireland as the number of other Irish PotM wins combined!

[Eirambler]

Out of curiosity I had a look back to see when was the last time we even had a player nominated for player of the month, it was Matt Doherty for Wolves back in February 2020, the last round of games before the pandemic hit. Bruno Fernandes won the award that month.

They're not easy to win, no Northern Irish player has ever won it, Bale, Ramsay and Giggs the only Welshmen. Stephen Fletcher somehow won it once, McAllister and Duncan Ferguson are the only other Scots to ever win it.

I doubt we'll have another Irish winner again until we have someone who becomes an absolute star player with one of the top clubs.

[joey B]

Exceptional today,unlucky to be on the losing side,his passing into the midfield and forwards is really impressive..

[pineapple stu]

I think on the basis of the last couple of months, even if Burnley do go down, his decision to move on from Stoke seems vindicated

[tommy_c12000]

He’s got it all. The aspirational 3-man centre back partnership is Collins, Omobamidele and ANother from the stacked centre half talent we have coming through. Egan or Duffy will be an adequate stop gap measures until ANother comes through.

[liamoo11]

He’s got it all. The aspirational 3-man centre back partnership is Collins, Omobamidele and ANother from the stacked centre half talent we have coming through. Egan or Duffy will be an adequate stop gap measures until ANother comes through.

Conor masterson is ready to answer that AN Other call on the left of the 3

[tommy_c12000]

You never know! After toughening up with Gillingham, let’s see if he can force himself into QPRs side next season alongside Jimmy!

[joey B]

Maybe Dara O’Shea might be the other one …

[Insidetherock]

Would love to see Arsenal buy Collins.. exactly what they need, a good tough centre half

[elatedscum]

Chelsea are losing Rudiger and Christiansen. They could do worse…

[seanfhear]

Would he have a better chance of one of the big clubs taking a chance on him if he called himself Collina ? !

[Eirambler]

Either that or find an English relative and declare for them. United or City would sign him for 50 million within a year.

[Razors left peg]

Chelsea are losing Rudiger and Christiansen. They could do worse…

There was talk of Omobamidele to Chelsea earlier this season but his injury may change that

[mark12345]

Collins immense and Long brilliant tonight against Villa. Food for thought for the international future.

[Olé Olé]

Watched this and Collins impressed me. The most impressive thing is his passing. He is incredibly progressive in his passing. Every single time he tries to play an angled ball or something through the lines. He consistently passed through to strikers and wingers as opposed to those closer to him i.e. centre mid and right back. It was instinctive and natural and it's something that can make a big but subtle difference to a lot of teams. Fine bit of stuff we have on our hands.

[mark12345]

Watched this and Collins impressed me. The most impressive thing is his passing. He is incredibly progressive in his passing. Every single time he tries to play an angled ball or something through the lines. He consistently passed through to strikers and wingers as opposed to those closer to him i.e. centre mid and right back. It was instinctive and natural and it's something that can make a big but subtle difference to a lot of teams. Fine bit of stuff we have on our hands.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. His passing ability does set him apart from many defenders in the PL. And in terms of Ireland, the last time we had a passing center back of this potential - it brings me back to Mark Lawrenson. Collins at times looks like a teak-tough defender who lets no one past him. And at other times he looks like Sergio Ramos or Gerard Pique in terms of awareness. A long way to go admittedly but the potential is there if he moves to a proper club.

[seanfhear]

Collins did some daft stuff in Burnleys game today ~ ~ Messing about in the box at one stage and losing the ball and then committing a hand ball that he was never going to get away with ~ ~ Did the big game day get to him ?

On the plus side he had a big “ pre-assist " with the Burnley goal with some good play for a centre back but overall on the day it goes to show that young players have to play these sort of big games to learn from them.

[tommy_c12000]

Yep agree showed his inexperience/naivety today, may have hurt some of his potential immediate prem options. Part of me wonders whether a solid year in the championship would do him good vs jumping on board with a mid/lower tier prem team as long as he has the promise of first team football. A bigger team is risky as he will unlikely be a sure starter

[CSAD]

Yep agree showed his inexperience/naivety today, may have hurt some of his potential immediate prem options. Part of me wonders whether a solid year in the championship would do him good vs jumping on board with a mid/lower tier prem team as long as he has the promise of first team football. A bigger team is risky as he will unlikely be a sure starter

Yeah because no other CB ever makes a mistake…1 error doesn’t suddenly mean he’s a naive player just like 1 great moment doesn’t make him a top defender…

[tommy_c12000]

He has made a few mistakes in the several games I watched him in, in keeping with his inexperience/natural naivety given his age. Also, his exciting forward thinking style of play will always come at a risk, which I’m happy taking. This is expected, don’t get too offended by my post. For me, it confirms that he’s not ready for top 4, where I think will be his ultimate destination. Needs another year at mid/lower tier premiership, I was just wondering on the possibility of a few months of championship football as an alternative. Obviously, I’d like to see him get a reasonable prem move, as long as he is guarantee first team football

[Colbert Report]

It'll be interesting to see if they cash in on him now or hang on for a year. Tarkowski is definitely gone, he played his last match for Burnley today. Cornet has a 17.5m pound release clause so he'll be leaving for sure as well. I think it is likely that they sell Nick Pope and Dwight McNeil, leaving Collins as the only other valuable player under contract. Kevin Long spent a decade on the bench before starting the last three matches of the season and there's a decent chance we see Collins/Long as their CB partnership in the Championship next season.

[Demesne Lad]

It'll be interesting to see if they cash in on him now or hang on for a year. Tarkowski is definitely gone, he played his last match for Burnley today. Cornet has a 17.5m pound release clause so he'll be leaving for sure as well. I think it is likely that they sell Nick Pope and Dwight McNeil, leaving Collins as the only other valuable player under contract. Kevin Long spent a decade on the bench before starting the last three matches of the season and there's a decent chance we see Collins/Long as their CB partnership in the Championship next season.
Collins might have to be sold too, if not this summer then perhaps in January, if revenue falls. According to Bristol Live today, "When purchasing the (Burnley) club in December 2020, the American investors (ALK Capital) took out a £65m loan with MSD Holdings - a fellow American investment firm....- to complete the transaction. The amount was due to be repaid by 2025 but as Burnley’s accounts reported earlier this month, the financing carried a clause that if they were to become a Championship side - as now has transpired - a significant amount would have to be repaid by the end of this season".
Given their 'goals against' records in 21/22, perhaps Everton, Southampton and Leeds would be interested. Yes, he is raw and naive, but the potential is there.

[pineapple stu]

You'd imagine with parachute payments giving them a good chance to bounce straight back to the Premier, they'd be trying to minimise the squad disruption over pre-season?

[Philly]

Unfortunately due to their relegation and a crazy clause in their takeover, they now need to pay back a loan of £65 million right away, eating a good chunk of that parachute money. They also have an aging squad. I think Burnley could be a sinking ship for the next couple of years.

[ColourfulPeanut]

The clause in their takeover is due to it being a leveraged takeover, ala Glazers and Man United. It's madness that these sort of club purchases are allowed. Especially for Premier League clubs, who'd have no shortage of suitors.

[elatedscum]

you'd certainly imagine Cornet, McNeill, Collins and Pope will be wanted by Premier League clubs. Cornet has a £17.5m release clause. I'd expect the other 3 would fetch easily £20m each and potentially above £30m. You sell those lads, you add the parachute money and you've got about £50-60m to replace your 5 best players (Tarkowski also gone).

It's a **** situation to be in - and it really shouldn't be allowed - but it's not insurmountable. A little bit like what Newcastle did in 2017, where they sold Wijnaldum to Liverpool, Sissoko to Spurs, Townsend to Palace, Cabella to Marseille etc etc - took in about £90m and then spent 50-60m building a side capable of winning the championship

[geysir]

Yeah because no other CB ever makes a mistake…1 error doesn’t suddenly mean he’s a naive player just like 1 great moment doesn’t make him a top defender…

Consider also that Pope came out and completely fluffed his lines, flapped at the ball sending it directly to a Newcastle player's head. That player would have had a clean header into a wide empty space in goal. Yes Collin who wasn't even yellow carded shouldn't have handled it but it was Pope who was about 90% responsible for the mess that transpired.
The overly forensic negative comments on Irish players playing in the English leagues has brought down this board from very decent to being repetitively tiresome and not worth the visit and I am far from being a airhead cheerleader.

[JR89]

Could be a load of ****e but some talk Leeds and Newcastle are possibly interested.

1530211761617571840

[Trequartista20]

This seems to have come from Sky's Pete O'Rourke, who's a pretty credible source.

I'm not surprised; he looked so impressive when finally given a chance at Burnley, both in and out of possession, and at 21 there can't be many young central defenders around as accomplished and with such great potential.

[JR89]

If Newcastle are genuinely interested he should give it strong consideration. He's got the potential to play at the very top in England and Newcastle have the investment needed to get there. Jump on that train early and make a few quid in the process.

[Insidetherock]

would love him at Arsenal.. fits their profile too of looking for young up and coming talent

[Stuttgart88]

I think Arsenal look down their noses at Irish talent these days. For years they should have bought Shay Given, for example.

[irishfan86]

I think they never would have gone for Shay based on their distribution expectations. He was one of the best shot stoppers/reflex goalkeepers of his era, but when it came to distribution, I don’t know that it was his strong point. I do think there are times in this era when a keeper’s distribution is overvalued relative to the fundamentals of the job (stopping shots), but I suspect that was Wenger’s calculus.

[seanfhear]

I think they never would have gone for Shay based on their distribution expectations. He was one of the best shot stoppers/reflex goalkeepers of his era, but when it came to distribution, I don’t know that it was his strong point. I do think there are times in this era when a keeper’s distribution is overvalued relative to the fundamentals of the job (stopping shots), but I suspect that was Wenger’s calculus.
I reckon Dracula would be happier with a crucifix at his feet that Shay Given with a ball at his feet ( for distribution ) ! !

[Olé Olé]

I think they never would have gone for Shay based on their distribution expectations. He was one of the best shot stoppers/reflex goalkeepers of his era, but when it came to distribution, I don’t know that it was his strong point. I do think there are times in this era when a keeper’s distribution is overvalued relative to the fundamentals of the job (stopping shots), but I suspect that was Wenger’s calculus.
Maybe I'm guilty of recency bias but is it not the last few years that distribution became a big consideration for keepers? I do not remember Lehmann or Seaman being particularly comfortable with the ball at their feet. My overriding memory of Seaman with the ball is his kick from the hands.

[John83]

This old Chelsea scouting report on Newcastle identified Given as "highly inconsistent" and "inconsistent under crosses". It says he gave away a lot of chances via second balls, which I take to mean his saves didn't always deflect the ball somewhere safe. Maybe at that level he just wasn't quite as good as we think. Or maybe André Villas-Boas didn't know what he was talking about. Who knows?
https://www.slideshare.net/valeriyfomenkov/andr-villasboas-scouting-report

[irishfan86]

This old Chelsea scouting report on Newcastle identified Given as "highly inconsistent" and "inconsistent under crosses". It says he gave away a lot of chances via second balls, which I take to mean his saves didn't always deflect the ball somewhere safe. Maybe at that level he just wasn't quite as good as we think. Or maybe André Villas-Boas didn't know what he was talking about. Who knows?
https://www.slideshare.net/valeriyfomenkov/andr-villasboas-scouting-report

I tend to think Villas-Boas was spoofing here, or just got Given all wrong. I’m pretty sure in this same season Given was named in the Premier League team of the season!

[pineapple stu]

Fairly easy one to check - and you're right

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_FA_Premier_League

[John83]

I tend to assume the spectacular shot stopping boosted his reputation, but that there was fire to that smoke: there was a reason the bigger clubs never came for him.

[tetsujin1979]

Man City did sign him right after the money came into the club, but he had passed his peak at that stage.
Read his autobiography during the first lockdown, interesting read

[John83]

Man City did sign him right after the money came into the club, but he had passed his peak at that stage.
Read his autobiography during the first lockdown, interesting read
Any highlights?

[Stuttgart88]

I think they never would have gone for Shay based on their distribution expectations. He was one of the best shot stoppers/reflex goalkeepers of his era, but when it came to distribution, I don’t know that it was his strong point. I do think there are times in this era when a keeper’s distribution is overvalued relative to the fundamentals of the job (stopping shots), but I suspect that was Wenger’s calculus.I don't really agree here. [Edit: I re-read your post, and see now what you were saying, and I do agree!]

Goalkeepers' distribution has definitely become more important to how teams play but when Shay was at his peak Wenger bought flops like Wright, Shaban, Almunia. I just don't think Wenger had a good eye for a goalkeeper - it's that simple! After his initial successful spell when he integrated an established core with predominantly French young talent (which he had a head start over his peers in identifying) his transfer decisions were frequently poor. He was constrained by budget but at the same time he bought poor players and bought players with poor attitudes, or indulged players with poor attitudes already there. I remember arguing here that Kevin Doyle would have been an ideal signing for Arsenal, a step above Niklas Bendtner in terms of both ability and character but Wenger just kept indulging Bendtner. Then Nasri after that, and countless others. So in short, I think Wenger had his blindspots and tried to be cute in the market far too often, when in my opinion the players and personalities Arsenal needed at key times were hiding in plain sight - and were sometimes Irish. I think Richie Dunne could have had a good 2-3 years at Arsenal too, when Arsenal really had some iffy centre backs.

[Insidetherock]

As an Arsenal fan for years, I'd have to concur with that. Loved the good times Wenger brought, but if you step back and analyse his whole contribution over the 20 years or so, he inherited a very strong back four.. and made them even better by convincing them to come off the sauce... identified brilliant, and cheap young French players like Viera, Anelka, Petit, Pires, Henry, Wiltord, who backboned a WC & EC winning side... but beyond 2006, when they were unlucky not to win the CL, he was never able to compete in the transfer market again.. with the stadium repayments, and then first Chelsea, then City raking in the State millions

But back to Collins.. still think he'd make a great centre half for Arsenal

[seanfhear]

I tend to assume the spectacular shot stopping boosted his reputation, but that there was fire to that smoke: there was a reason the bigger clubs never came for him.
There was definitely some parts to Shay Given’s game that the big clubs did Not fancy.

[JR89]

As an Arsenal fan for years, I'd have to concur with that. Loved the good times Wenger brought, but if you step back and analyse his whole contribution over the 20 years or so, he inherited a very strong back four.. and made them even better by convincing them to come off the sauce... identified brilliant, and cheap young French players like Viera, Anelka, Petit, Pires, Henry, Wiltord, who backboned a WC & EC winning side... but beyond 2006, when they were unlucky not to win the CL, he was never able to compete in the transfer market again.. with the stadium repayments, and then first Chelsea, then City raking in the State millions

But back to Collins.. still think he'd make a great centre half for Arsenal

Big clubs will wait another couple of years once the price tag has probably tripled before looking at him most likely and thinking he's a decent player that lad. United wouldn't even spend the measly 12 to 15m for him even though CB is a position of concern for them for years now.

[seanfhear]

Big clubs will wait another couple of years once the price tag has probably tripled before looking at him most likely and thinking he's a decent player that lad. United wouldn't even spend the measly 12 to 15m for him even though CB is a position of concern for them for years now.
You probably wouldn’t want him learning from Man Utd’s centre backs ~ ~ Probably better to keep him away from them ! !

[SkStu]

There was definitely some parts to Shay Given’s game that the big clubs did Not fancy.

the common line at the time was that he was seen, rightly or wrongly, as just too short to be a keeper at a "top" club. He never really let us down during his prime years possibly with the exception of declaring himself fit for Euro 2012 when he really wasn't and then playing pretty disastrously.

[Stuttgart88]

Big clubs will wait another couple of years once the price tag has probably tripled before looking at him most likely and thinking he's a decent player that lad. United wouldn't even spend the measly 12 to 15m for him even though CB is a position of concern for them for years now.I read all the time about these super talent spotters but really Liverpool are the stand outs of the big clubs. They get far more right than wrong whereas others seem to get more wrong than right, but at the same time I think Klopp has a good habit of improving players. VVD was a stand out at Celtic and was overlooked by Wenger. Instead he went to Southampton. Leicester seem to recruit well.