Nathan Collins D Brentford b.2001

[Jolly Red Giant]

Sounds like he went OK today. He is starting out of necessity more than anything at the moment with all the defensive injuries, in truth. But maybe he can play himself back into form. I think maybe he has believed the hype a bit too much in the last couple of years, maybe tries to do too much with the ball but hasn't focused enough on the nuts and bolts of defending - marking, concentration etc. I'm still hopeful he'll come good.
Collins normally plays on the right of a back three at Brentford - today he was playing on the left, replacing Mee - not his natural position.

[EalingGreen]

Sounds like he went OK today. He is starting out of necessity more than anything at the moment with all the defensive injuries, in truth. But maybe he can play himself back into form. I think maybe he has believed the hype a bit too much in the last couple of years, maybe tries to do too much with the ball but hasn't focused enough on the nuts and bolts of defending - marking, concentration etc. I'm still hopeful he'll come good.Wasn't at the game myself, but speaking to my mate who was, plus looking at the fans' forums, I'm afraid he wasn't "OK". Now tbf, he probably wasn't any worse than the two other CB's, plus he was out of position on the left, as JRG says.

Either way, even while their attacking play is very good, and the gk has found some form, BFC's defence is leaking goals alarmingly. Hardly surprising when their first choice back five from last season are all missing. While the general concensus on NC is that his confidence is shot, but there is literally no-one else to take his place and allow him a period out of the spotlight to get his confidence back.

Still, for his sake it must be hoped that "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger".

[seanfhear]

Wasn't at the game myself, but speaking to my mate who was, plus looking at the fans' forums, I'm afraid he wasn't "OK". Now tbf, he probably wasn't any worse than the two other CB's, plus he was out of position on the left, as JRG says.

Either way, even while their attacking play is very good, and the gk has found some form, BFC's defence is leaking goals alarmingly. Hardly surprising when their first choice back five from last season are all missing. While the general concensus on NC is that his confidence is shot, but there is literally no-one else to take his place and allow him a period out of the spotlight to get his confidence back.

Still, for his sake it must be hoped that "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger".That's what makes on professional at one's job. It'd the hard that makes you hard.

[ifk101]

That Brentford defence seems positional unsure and clueless as to who is supposed to be picking up who. The second Chelsea goal the example. Brentford outnumbered Chelsea in the box but two Chelsea players had free runs at the back post to attack the ball. Looks like Collins is at fault for the goal but the back three are not in sync.

[backstothewall]

He was waving an imaginary card today against Arsenal when Havertz went down very easily.

Embarrassing.

[seanfhear]

He was waving an imaginary card today against Arsenal when Havertz went down very easily.

Embarrassing.Did he not get a Valentines day card ? !

[Eirambler]

Part of a defence that conceded three today and had a right good row with Ivan Toney on the pitch at the end of the game.

[Eirambler]

Big turnaround in the space of a month for Collins, has been one of Brentford's best players recently and seems to now be winning over their supporters. Hopefully he can continue the better form into next season.

Him, O'Shea and Omobamidele have all been good in the Premier League recently, albeit for three of the less fashionable teams. Stick Kelleher behind them and get Jake O'Brien involved and that should be a really solid base to work from for the next few years.

[EalingGreen]

Big turnaround in the space of a month for Collins, has been one of Brentford's best players recently and seems to now be winning over their supporters. Hopefully he can continue the better form into next season.Was at BFC v Fulham on Saturday (also v Sheff U last month, won 2-0) and NC was very good in both (even if hardly tested by Sheff U).

He's clearly over the 'blip' he had earlier in the season and should be looking forward to next season with confidence. The only thing I'd add is that it's important that he has Ethan Pinnock fit and available beside him next season, since Pinnock, 31 later this month, is an absolute rock - imo one of the best 5 or 6 CB's in the entire PL, criminally underrated. Collins can learn from him.

[EalingGreen]

Longish interview/profile on the Brentford website:

https://www.brentfordfc.com/en/news/article/the-long-read-nathan-collins-brentford-interview

[JR89]

Played a big part in Brentfords second goal. Better connection on the shot and might have scored himself.

[Drummerboy2]

I thought Collins played well yesterday. Looked good on the ball, and seemed to handle Eze well, blocking a few of shots from the Palace ace. Would love to see him paired with O'Shea but Pinnock may stand in his way. Perhaps a back three

[EalingGreen]

I thought Collins played well yesterday. Looked good on the ball, and seemed to handle Eze well, blocking a few of shots from the Palace ace. Would love to see him paired with O'Shea but Pinnock may stand in his way. Perhaps a back threeHe's currently leading in the MOTM vote on the main Bees' fans forum. I was at the game and while I thought he was certainly very good, he probably wouldn't have been my choice but hey, what do I know?

As for O'Shea replacing Pinnock, that may be BFC's long term plan, but from the way Pinnock played yesterday, he has to be the first name on the team (any position) - an absolute rock. O'Shea may get a place alongside Pinnock and Collins in a back three, but he'll have to oust Ajer (did ok yesterday) and Mee (made a brief comeback as sub) first. Imo if O'Shea signs (still not absol certain), it will be for the medium-long term, not the here-and-now.

[liamoo11]

He's currently leading in the MOTM vote on the main Bees' fans forum. I was at the game and while I thought he was certainly very good, he probably wouldn't have been my choice but hey, what do I know?

As for O'Shea replacing Pinnock, that may be BFC's long term plan, but from the way Pinnock played yesterday, he has to be the first name on the team (any position) - an absolute rock. O'Shea may get a place alongside Pinnock and Collins in a back three, but he'll have to oust Ajer (did ok yesterday) and Mee (made a brief comeback as sub) first. Imo if O'Shea signs (still not absol certain), it will be for the medium-long term, not the here-and-now.

Did they play a back 4 yesterday with ajer as a left full?

[ifk101]

Yes, Ajer was LB.

Watched the game myself. Thought Collins was ok, Brentford as a whole were defensively shaky. From an Ireland perspective, O'Shea going to Brentford would not be ideal as I'd be confident he'll push Collins out of the Brentford team. Collins arguably has a higher bar in terms of potential, but O'Shea is a consistent and reliable performer.

(Pinnock was a bit sluggish yesterday imo.)

[EalingGreen]

Did they play a back 4 yesterday with ajer as a left full?No, back three with Collins on right, Pinnock in centre and Ajer on left. This despite Ajer being right footed and Pinnock being left footed - Frank clearly wants to build the defence round Pinnock. As it happens, Ajer, who's 6'5" was caught out in the air at the back post for the Palace goal, which deflected in off Pinnock. And Pinnock gave him a right mouthfull for it, I can tell you.

Meanwhile Roerslev played RWB and the left footed Janelt, normally a midfielder, was LWB, to complete the 3-5-2.

That's one of the things about BFC. Usually lower half teams only have one "house-style", but BFC vary their set-up and tactics depending on the opposition. Against top teams, esp those which press high, they defend deep and try to hit them on the counter. But against teams like Palace, they play out from the back. This in turn dictates whether they play four at the back, or three.

[elatedscum]

Has been excellent so far in the first 60 mins. Stopped a sure goal from Jota and got a great block on a Salah shot. Two important headers defending corners.

Took an elbow in.the face for which Jota could easily have seen red. And came closest to scoring for Brentford, Alisson made a very good save from a Collins header

[SkStu]

They’re losing but I think Collins is having another good game in the circumstances. He’s very solid on that right side of the three and carries and passes the ball so well. Seems to be staying mentally switched on too which is a fault I’d have seen in him before. Drew a fantastic save from Allison from a corner and blocked a goal bound shot a minute later at the other end.

[SkStu]

Came here to post something very similar. Went to edit the post to say “you got there before me ES” - and it deleted the whole post… grrr…

He’s been great overall and doing really well in the circumstances. Carries and passes the ball so well from that right sided position in the back three and stays mentally switched on which is a fault I’d have called out from him in previous seasons. Great to see the development. The save from Allison was fantastic and the block at the other end came about a minute later. Doing really well.

[mark12345]

Came here to post something very similar. Went to edit the post to say “you got there before me ES” - and it deleted the whole post… grrr…

He’s been great overall and doing really well in the circumstances. Carries and passes the ball so well from that right sided position in the back three and stays mentally switched on which is a fault I’d have called out from him in previous seasons. Great to see the development. The save from Allison was fantastic and the block at the other end came about a minute later. Doing really well.

Was watching the game on American TV. Commentators John Champion and Stephen Warnock (former Liverpool full-back). Warnock could not say enough good things about Collins, gushing over him at times.

[elatedscum]

Had another 2 before the end. Another block from Jota and a goalbound shot from Gakpo which he was able to get enough of a head on to turn it onto the bar.

Genuinely probably man of the match. Great time for it.

genuine quantity of centre backs is phenomenal: (excluding the 21s regulars)

Tier 1: Collins, O’Shea, O’Brien, Scales

Tier 2: Omobamidele, Duffy, Egan, McGuinness

Tier 3: McNally, Cashin, Lenihan, Dunne, McLoughlin, Clarke Salter

I’d have another 6 lads in Tier 4, but no point going that deep

[Eirambler]

The age profile of them is excellent too.

Though I would swap Scales and Omobamidele between the tiers on your list. While it's tempting to drop Omobamidele a tier right now because he hasn't started the season in the Forest team, his pace and comfort in possession at a higher level of football put him a tier above Scales. Omobamidele has already played 16 Premier League games at 22, I doubt Scales will play 16 games in the Premier League (or an equivalent top European league) in his career.

[the 12 th man]

Carragher was singing his praises about keeping his team in the game.


A very solid performance.

[elatedscum]

The age profile of them is excellent too.

Though I would swap Scales and Omobamidele between the tiers on your list. While it's tempting to drop Omobamidele a tier right now because he hasn't started the season in the Forest team, his pace and comfort in possession at a higher level of football put him a tier above Scales. Omobamidele has already played 16 Premier League games at 22, I doubt Scales will play 16 games in the Premier League (or an equivalent top European league) in his career.

Definitely - purely on ability etc, I’d have Andy in that top tier. Was more thinking specifically about the next international window and I think it’s one of McGuinness, Duffy and Omobamidele for that 5th slot.

I have been incredibly impressed with Scales performances at centre back for Ireland, left of a three and left of a two. He’s certainly performed well above his base ability or what you’d expect from him.

I was at the game at home to the Greeks where he started at left back and Collins was poor and at half time, Collins was taken off and scales moved to centre half where he was excellent.

Also remember him playing very well away to the Dutch in the left of a three along with Collins and O’Shea.

So as much as Scales logically feels like he’s well behind the premier league players, in his limited number of performances at centre back for Ireland, that gap certainly hasn’t been present.

I’d also be generally pretty pleased with how he’s fared for Celtic in Europe. Haven’t seen every game but he’s equipped himself well.

[Rayzor]

[QUOTE=elatedscum;2199153]Had another 2 before the end. Another block from Jota and a goalbound shot from Gakpo which he was able to get enough of a head on to turn it onto the bar.

Genuinely probably man of the match. Great time for it.

genuine quantity of centre backs is phenomenal: (excluding the 21s regulars)

Tier 1: Collins, O’Shea, O’Brien, Scales

Tier 2: Omobamidele, Duffy, Egan, McGuinness

Tier 3: McNally, Cashin, Lenihan, Dunne, McLoughlin, Clarke Salter

I’d have another 6 lads in Tier 4, but no point going that

Think Dunne could be considered more of a right back these days, been playing there for almost a year, might be worth considering our options.

[Stuttgart88]

Had another 2 before the end. Another block from Jota and a goalbound shot from Gakpo which he was able to get enough of a head on to turn it onto the bar.

Genuinely probably man of the match. Great time for it.

genuine quantity of centre backs is phenomenal: (excluding the 21s regulars)

Tier 1: Collins, O’Shea, O’Brien, Scales

Tier 2: Omobamidele, Duffy, Egan, McGuinness

Tier 3: McNally, Cashin, Lenihan, Dunne, McLoughlin, Clarke Salter

I’d have another 6 lads in Tier 4, but no point going that deep
Is Clarke-Salter definitely eligible?

[John83]

Came here to post something very similar. Went to edit the post to say “you got there before me ES” - and it deleted the whole post… grrr…

He’s been great overall and doing really well in the circumstances. Carries and passes the ball so well from that right sided position in the back three and stays mentally switched on which is a fault I’d have called out from him in previous seasons. Great to see the development. The save from Allison was fantastic and the block at the other end came about a minute later. Doing really well.
I've undeleted it now.

[elatedscum]

Is Clarke-Salter definitely eligible?

I'd assume so... A quote from 2022:

"My grandma was born in Ireland and all those on my mum’s side are pretty much Irish so I qualify for Ireland as well," “I haven’t told anyone in the game that before, you are the first! I would be open to it, yes. It is international football so I want to play. I just have to keep doing my thing on the pitch and if Ireland come calling, then me and my family will have to have a conversation. They have always supported me when I’ve played for the younger England age groups but they encourage me to play for Ireland now too! "When you’re a kid, you dream of playing in a European Championships or a World Cup. I’ve done it at youth level so it is only natural for me to want to do it at senior level as well."

[tetsujin1979]

Statsbomb on Collins
1859552667221041317

[seanfhear]

Statsbomb on Collins
1859552667221041317
Is this good or bad ?

[pineapple stu]

I spent a couple of minutes looking at it trying to work it out and now I think I'm hypnotised.

[Diggs246]

I think Razor touched on the Collins in midfield debate in another thread.

I thought it worked perfectly
Obviously things went pair shaped after the red card. But I thought he was in essence our best "midfielder" on the day.

We should have tried it years ago. We need a solid midfield or it's lights out

[Razors left peg]

I think Razor touched on the Collins in midfield debate in another thread.

I thought it worked perfectly
Obviously things went pair shaped after the red card. But I thought he was in essence our best "midfielder" on the day.

We should have tried it years ago. We need a solid midfield or it's lights out

Yeah in the context of how we tried to play from a defensive mindset the other night it was working brilliantly, I'm not sure it'd necessarily be the way to go against teams more on our level when we would be expected to have more of the ball and create, but who knows. I was always skeptical of the idea of him in midfield, but it's at least something worth looking at again

[Fixer82]

I’d like to see it with him anchoring at the base of midfield and two more creative players in front of him. Knight, Moran, McGrath, maybe Browne …Jesus we’re light in midfield aren’t we?

[Eirambler]

Statsbomb on Collins
1859552667221041317

Has he taken up archery?

[SkStu]

Is this good or bad ?

Stay out of the white and keep in the red, nowt in this game for two in a bed.

I think.

[Eminence Grise]

Sneaky feckers. You can't find Wally when the picture is just a distorted close-up of his jumper.

[~YTM~]

I’d like to see it with him anchoring at the base of midfield and two more creative players in front of him. Knight, Moran, McGrath, maybe Browne …Jesus we’re light in midfield aren’t we?

Yeah if Collins is gonna play midfield again we really need some creativity in midfield too. He did a good job playing that almost hybrid role of anchoring the midfield and dropping into CB. But playing Molumby and Cullen is gonna give you nothing going forward.

[passinginterest]

I agree having Collins in midfield was effective, but I'm not sure if it was just more about filling space than actual midfield play. He stopped the ball getting to Harry Kane and that was about it. I think I read he had 9 touches and completed 2 passes in the first half. You'd want a bit more involvement on the ball from whoever is there in future. I think Lawal probably has the most long term potential. Played a lot as a centre back and midfielder and is much more dynamic, while also offering defensive ability and physicality.

Collins seems to be improving again as a centre back and I think he'll be back there for us very quickly. Apart from a backs to the wall game like England was I don't think he has the mobility on the half turn to be truly effective in the middle.

[Fixer82]

So essentially we need Collins at the base with a prime Wes and a prime John Sheridan

[seanfhear]

So essentially we need Collins at the base with a prime Wes and a prime John SheridanMight as well go full-hog ~ Prime Johnny Giles and a prime Liam Brady as well.

[Fixer82]

Might as well go full-hog ~ Prime Johnny Giles and a prime Liam Brady as well.

We might as well lose Collins and stick McGrath in so

[Eirambler]

Lovely one touch finish for Brentford today. They're up to seventh now and his form is playing a major part in their run up the table. Really starting to deliver on all the early promise now.

You don't want to take these statistical ratings sites too seriously, but notable all the same that he was rated by WhoScored as the best defender across the 100 or so clubs that make up the top 5 European leagues for the month of November.

[Stuttgart88]

I was at the game today. Great fun.

[Bungle]

He still is raw and has a mistake in him, but I think he has a really high ceiling.

Put it like this, he would have won a cap or two for England by now if he was English and face it, that's a rare compliment for young Irish lads these days.

[Eirambler]

Him, Ferguson and Kelleher are probably the only three players we have currently where that would be the case if they were English.

[Stuttgart88]

Funny thing is, he had a really good game overall yesterday but it has to be said he made a total mess of a back pass that Isak capitalised on but then inexplicably allowed the keeper to recover. He should have just put it into touch, in hindsight anyway. And I’d fault him for Isak’s first equaliser too, stepping back to play Isak onside instead of stepping up or holding the line. Each the result of bad decision making / game management imho.

In general Brentford have a great thing going on at the Gtech. And Mbeumo has the biggest glutes I’ve ever seen.

[Buckett]

I like big glutes and I cannot lie

[tetsujin1979]

Interviewed in the independent today
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/the-squad-wants-it-so-desperately-we-are-trying-our-bx-off-nathan-collins-on-irelands-world-cup-ambitions/a1327991848.html

[Eirambler]

It's great to hear the commitment and everything but sometimes the stuff they come out with, presumably off the back of the media training they get at their clubs, stretches credibility. In this article Collins says:

"It’s such a good squad. It’s really frustrating that we couldn’t get over the line [and qualify for last summer’s Euros]."

I mean, in terms of the last Euros, we were so far from the line that we couldn't even see the line. We were miles off in our group and it's nearly harder to not at least make the Euros playoffs these days and we didn't even manage that either.