Nathan Collins D Brentford b.2001

[Olé Olé]

Ben Mee back into Brentford team ahead of Collins today v Bournemouth. Not the end of the world but interesting to see Mee get his game quickly enough.

[JR89]

Collins showing why he should probably be starting with passes like that for the assist for the equaliser.

[JR89]

1698001273264480679

[Olé Olé]

Fine ball and he was under enough pressure too. Mbeumo had a lot to do but when you provide an assist from your own half then it's a good day of work.

[tetsujin1979]

A short thread on Nathan Collins' 50th Premier League appearance today, the only Irish player under 30 with 50 PL appearances
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[tommy_c12000]

Silly mistake again got Evertons third goal, he just doesn’t seem to be able to stamp them out

[SkStu]

Overall he’s played well again though, I’d say. He’s so good on the front foot.

[tommy_c12000]

Beto has been giving him a tough time I thought, Collins doesn’t seem to win the share of defensive headers you’d expect. Had looked good on the ball up to that moment though

[SkStu]

At fault for Wolves’ second and third goals today. Crap back pass and crap forward pass respectively.

[SkStu]

Collins at fault again for Wolves’ fourth. Another terrible pass at the back. A hatrick of errors.

His concentration seems to be his major achilles heel. We’ve seen it a few times in green over the last 12-18 months - costly positioning mistakes, passes, etc. maybe he’s just going through his John Stones 2016/17 phase.

[seanfhear]

Collins at fault again for Wolves’ fourth. Another terrible pass at the back. A hatrick of errors.

His concentration seems to be his major achilles heel. We’ve seen it a few times in green over the last 12-18 months - costly positioning mistakes, passes, etc. maybe he’s just going through his John Stones 2016/17 phase.
If he keeps going like this ~ He won't be playing much for Brentford's first team !

[texidub]

He can seem lackadaisical at times. And he makes tricky stuff look effortless at other times. It's a fine line between the two.

[Diggs246]

I think he's more at fault for the first goal than he is the third
But look if you're going to have a bad game have a mare and move on immediately

[MancIrishWolf]

Looks like the majority of Brentford fans giving him the benefit of the doubt from his recent performances pre-injury which is good (certainly less fickle than half the village idiots down the Molineux). Shocker of a game, however hopefully just nerves - does need to cut out the causality - however think it’s just part of the course for some ball-playing defenders like Lescott, Stones, Van Dyke etc. Needs to bounce back in the next game.

https://griffinpark.org/forums/threads/nathan-collins.139273/page-12

[EalingGreen]

It's just possible that with BFC's injury problems (am tempted to say "crisis"), that Collins was rushed back before he was fully fit/ready, and this was playing on his mind?

Anyhow, there's no better man than Thomas Frank to get him back to his best:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/c88209j5l3yo.amp

[SkStu]

He had a bit of a knack for goalscoring when he was with Burnley and Stoke. He has one tonight for Brentford in the cup, his second overall for them.

[pineapple stu]

Against Wolves too - helping make up for the two he "scored" for Wolves against Brentford last month :p

[SkStu]

jesus, yeah! Had totally forgotten about that!

[ifk101]

Could be on the move again in the summer if Brentford's poor form continues, which isn't ideal for us. Think his development would benefit staying at one club for an extended period of time but Brentford are in relegation form and facing a difficult fixture list, with Luton looking like they can wiggle their way out of the bottom three. Maybe Toney's return can turn things around.

[EalingGreen]

Could be on the move again in the summer if Brentford's poor form continues, which isn't ideal for us.No chance.


Think his development would benefit staying at one club for an extended period of time but Brentford are in relegation form and facing a difficult fixture list, with Luton looking like they can wiggle their way out of the bottom three.The next 9 or 10 games are tough, no doubt, but the final run-in is easier.

And even if Luton can keep it up (big ask), both Forest and Everton could be dragged down by points deductions for FFP. Whatever happens, Bees won't panic, that's for sure.



Maybe Toney's return can turn things around.If any of you play Fantasy PL, get him in your team before tomorrows game at home to Forest - I've a feeling he'll be back with a bang.

[zero]

If any of you play Fantasy PL, get him in your team before tomorrows game at home to Forest - I've a feeling he'll be back with a bang.

strange gameweek in FPL, spread over 2 weeks so the deadline was last saturday. he's a candidate to be brought in alright though.

[seanfhear]

No chance.

The next 9 or 10 games are tough, no doubt, but the final run-in is easier.

And even if Luton can keep it up (big ask), both Forest and Everton could be dragged down by points deductions for FFP. Whatever happens, Bees won't panic, that's for sure.


If any of you play Fantasy PL, get him in your team before tomorrows game at home to Forest - I've a feeling he'll be back with a bang.How much are you putting on ~ That he will be back with a Bang ?

[EalingGreen]

How much are you putting on ~ That he will be back with a Bang ?Don't play FPL, and haven't been near a bookies in a while.

It's just a feeling I have, based on how he's been doing in training/BCD games, plus his natural confidence - apparently he's been telling all his teammates: "Big Dog's back!":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68024653

While Forest are hit by injuries, incl their two best players, Elanga and Gibbs-White. I suspect Nuno will set his stall out to defend - it could be a long 90 minutes for them.

[seanfhear]

Don't play FPL, and haven't been near a bookies in a while.

It's just a feeling I have, based on how he's been doing in training/BCD games, plus his natural confidence - apparently he's been telling all his teammates: "Big Dog's back!":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68024653

While Forest are hit by injuries, incl their two best players, Elanga and Gibbs-White. I suspect Nuno will set his stall out to defend - it could be a long 90 minutes for them.As long as Big Dog doesn't back himself at the bookies ! ! !

[Colbert Report]

Absolute shocker from Collins today at home to Liverpool. One of the worst performances by a Premier League player I can recall.

[seanfhear]

Absolute shocker from Collins today at home to Liverpool. One of the worst performances by a Premier League player I can recall.
Where did it all go wrong ?

OK ~ That's a bit of an exaggeration ~ But, It hasn't turned out like we all were hoping a couple of years ago, yet anyway.

[passinginterest]

Absolute shocker from Collins today at home to Liverpool. One of the worst performances by a Premier League player I can recall.

He was pretty good up to the third goal. Actually had some really good moments, some vital tackles and blocks. He fell apart after that mistake.

[Jolly Red Giant]

He was pretty good up to the third goal. Actually had some really good moments, some vital tackles and blocks. He fell apart after that mistake.
He looked like the only Brentford player who wanted to actually try and defend.

[samhaydenjr]

He was pretty good up to the third goal. Actually had some really good moments, some vital tackles and blocks. He fell apart after that mistake.

TBH, I think Jake O'Brien would have beaten Salah to that ball - he is really quick after his first two or three strides. Eighteen months ago, I thought we would be building our defence around Collins - and that may yet happen - but with the options available now, I don't think he's undroppable

[Snapshot]

TBH, I think Jake O'Brien would have beaten Salah to that ball - he is really quick after his first two or three strides. Eighteen months ago, I thought we would be building our defence around Collins - and that may yet happen - but with the options available now, I don't think he's undroppable
Agree. Collins' game has become so erratic he'll need Bazunuesque tolerance to retain his Brentford spot. So it's hardly unreasonable to suggest a midfield role for Ireland in coming friendlies. Cullen is struggling badly - he looks lost at EPL level and had a dismal Euro campaign. Collins is a far better all-round footballer and well capable of McGrath/Lawrenson style versatility.

[elatedscum]

Am I right in saying that he’s literally never played in midfield in his life?

[ontheotherhand]

Am I right in saying that he’s literally never played in midfield in his life?


To be fair, he did as a yoof - https://www.the42.ie/nathan-collins-6-5791345-Jun2022/

Played right wing back for Stoke.....wonder would his mistakes be less punishing there?

[the 12 th man]

There is a bit of ball in the lad without a doubt.

Could be a revelation in the middle of the park.

[EalingGreen]

He looked like the only Brentford player who wanted to actually try and defend.
confirmation bias
noun
noun: confirmation bias

the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

I was at the game. Early on my mate (no dog in the fight) thought NC was a bit off it - maybe carrying an injury? Whatever, it's pure gash to say he was the only one who was "trying to defend etc"

My own thought is that it was 4 things (or some combination):
1. BFC missing Pinnock for (I think) the first time this season. He has been immense in the heart of the BFC defence to date, whether in a 3 or a 4. My POTY;
2. NC may be lacking confidence - he was ok until he and Mee screwed up for the 3rd goal, hence his own screw-up for the 4th;
3. Frank's tactics. In previous games vs L'pool, BFC have generally defended deep and hit them on the break. This time, possibly because they're currently missing their 3 quickest players, Henry, Mbuemo and Shade and with a reshaped defence, they tried instead to apply a high press. This worked brilliantly for the first 30 mins, until L'pool settled. After which, it was L'pool who were hitting BFC on the breakl, not v.v.
4. The quality of the L'pool attack.

If it is confidence, then there's no better coach than Frank to resolve it. For example, when Jenssen came iinto the team after Eriksen, he struggled, but over the next season he came into his own, since Frank kept faith in him. Or even Flekken (gk), signed this season to replace Raya. As recently as 3 weeks ago, Bees fans on social media were all for binning him. Then he had a blinder against Man City, and by yesterday, when he v.good vs L'pool, the fans had given him his own song!

Conclusion? NC is struggling for form and consistency at the moment - hardly surprising for a new guy in a constantly changing team which is losing a lot of games just now. Of course he'll have to shape up soon, since there is no sentiment in the PL and BFC are constantly assessing their players, incl looking towards finding upgrades to replace them. But with NC there is definitely a player in there and at 22, sooner or later he's likely to appear.

P.S. He's not a midfielder and never will be (imo).

[ifk101]

.....

My own thought is that it was 4 things (or some combination):
....
2. NC may be lacking confidence - he was ok until he and Mee screwed up for the 3rd goal, hence his own screw-up for the 4th;
.....
Conclusion? NC is struggling for form and consistency at the moment - hardly surprising for a new guy in a constantly changing team which is losing a lot of games just now. Of course he'll have to shape up soon, since there is no sentiment in the PL and BFC are constantly assessing their players, incl looking towards finding upgrades to replace them. But with NC there is definitely a player in there and at 22, sooner or later he's likely to appear.

P.S. He's not a midfielder and never will be (imo).

Admittedly I was excited by his move to Brentford for the money spent – suggesting they saw the potential and that he was undervalued at even that high sum. But not sure his difficulties are an issue of confidence, rather he is prone to defensive mishaps and the move to Brentford has yet to iron this out of his game. Despite his physical attributes, there is a certain softness and weakness in his defending that has followed him in his career to date. As much as Kenny is made out to be inept on the forum, he did lose patience with Collins and dropped him for this. Maybe it down to his age, he is still young and learning the game, but think we should be seeing a better “defender” at this stage of his career. Imagine this is where the calls to move him into midfield come from, mistakes are less fatal if made in midfield? But agree 100%, he is not a midfielder.

[Snapshot]

So the consensus is he won't be our Declan Rice.

[seanfhear]

Better to be, Our Caviar.

[EalingGreen]

Commenting during his Press Conference today on Brentford's recent defensive difficulties etc, Thomas Frank noted that:
"I think the last 24 games I have changed my back three or four, or five with the goalkeeper, a lot of times. 19 times we played a different set-up at the back which doesn't help."

It is hardly unexpected that a new, young and inexperienced player like Collins would struggle more in such a situation than eg Mee or Pinnock.

[ontheotherhand]

So the consensus is he won't be our Declan Rice.

ah he'd get nowhere near England team man.

[Eirambler]

ah he'd get nowhere near England team man.

On that metric of course, Declan Rice would be our Declan Rice.

[Razors left peg]

Hes dropped for the City game today

[EalingGreen]

Hes dropped for the City game todayYes, one of three players who started vs L'pool who have now been dropped to the bench.

Frank has stuck with a back 3, with NC replaced by 33 y.o. Xanka (aka Jorgensson), an experienced squad player who is usually on the bench but v.rarely starts. He's a big strong lad, mind, so maybe Frank is hoping he won't be too easily bullied by Haaland?

[EalingGreen]

On the bench again tonight, as Bees start with a 3-5-2 away to WHU.

[EalingGreen]

On the bench again tonight, as Bees start with a 3-5-2 away to WHU.Came off the bench after 61 mins with BFC already 2-1 down - game finished 4-2 to WHU. According to the radio commentary, while BFC's attacking play was pretty good, their defending was shambolic throughout - which has been the story of much of their season recently. They're seriously missing Pinnock (CB who has been excellent this season and last), Rico Henry (outstanding LB, but out for the season) and Raya (now Arsenal's 1st choice gk), while time may finally be catching up with CB Ben Mee this season.

In the circumstances it looks to have been a huge ask for a young, relatively inexperienced CB like NC to come in and steady the ship. But however it works out for him between now and the end of the season, if it doesn't ruin him*, he should be better for the experience over time.

* - Shouldn't think it will, since BFC are v.good at bringing on young players.

[ifk101]

Who should have picked up Bowen for goals 2 and 3? They are basically identical, and scored either side of half time - i.e. not addressed at the break. Sure, Collins has made individual errors to warrant a rest from the starting line-up but appears Brentford's defensive organisation is a deeper concern than its individual makeup. But with Luton losing momentum, Brentford should be relatively safe from relegation now - giving leeway to bring Collins back into the team.

[Razors left peg]

I think its fair to say we all expected more from Collins at this stage. When he broke through 1st I thought a move to a top club would have been on the cards by now but for whatever reason he hasnt really improved in the last years or 2. But at this stage hes starting to remind me of Richard Dunnes early career. Dunne was very error prone and it was only when he got into his mid and late 20s that he improved to the point we all loved him. Collins has played a lot of top flight football for a 22 year old center back, more than most would expect, so you'd have to hope that will stand to him eventually.

[ifk101]

I think its fair to say we all expected more from Collins at this stage. When he broke through 1st I thought a move to a top club would have been on the cards by now but for whatever reason he hasnt really improved in the last years or 2. But at this stage hes starting to remind me of Richard Dunnes early career. Dunne was very error prone and it was only when he got into his mid and late 20s that he improved to the point we all loved him. Collins has played a lot of top flight football for a 22 year old center back, more than most would expect, so you'd have to hope that will stand to him eventually.

Four clubs in the last four seasons doesn't help, so hopefully Brentford is a longer stay for him to aid his progress and reach his potential. He has made individual mistakes for Brentford but Brentford do have collective organisational issues which maybe enhance/ make more visible these mistakes? But using the Dunne comparison, I think Collins is a better footballer than Dunne, but Dunne is the better defender (if you know what I mean). Needs to be clued in more, use his strength, and be more aggressive to get to Dunne's level. For example, hard to see Dunne being bullied by Haaland to the same extent as Collins was - (which led to him losing his place in the Wolves team).

[Razors left peg]

Four clubs in the last four seasons doesn't help, so hopefully Brentford is a longer stay for him to aid his progress and reach his potential. He has made individual mistakes for Brentford but Brentford do have collective organisational issues which maybe enhance/ make more visible these mistakes? But using the Dunne comparison, I think Collins is a better footballer than Dunne, but Dunne is the better defender (if you know what I mean). Needs to be clued in more, use his strength, and be more aggressive to get to Dunne's level. For example, hard to see Dunne being bullied by Haaland to the same extent as Collins was - (which led to him losing his place in the Wolves team).

Yeah I wouldnt really compare him to Dunne as a player, I was just using Dunne for comparison as a defender who absolutely improved with age

[EalingGreen]

Ben Mee has now been ruled out for the rest of the season (injury). Increases NC's chances of getting back in the team.

[Eirambler]

Sounds like he went OK today. He is starting out of necessity more than anything at the moment with all the defensive injuries, in truth. But maybe he can play himself back into form. I think maybe he has believed the hype a bit too much in the last couple of years, maybe tries to do too much with the ball but hasn't focused enough on the nuts and bolts of defending - marking, concentration etc. I'm still hopeful he'll come good.