Where might new clubs come from?

[EalingGreen]

When this thread began in 2018, how may people thought that the answer to the question "Where might new clubs come from" was going to be 'The Irish Sea' ?
A ready made pyramid?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f9B1Emkpp4

[Dr. football]

Looks like we might need another club in cork city take over not going well at all.

[2 Year Contract]

Looks like we might need another club in cork city take over not going well at all.

Yeah Cork's immediate future sounds worrying based on this article

https://t.co/1oUjRqFtzc

[EatYerGreens]

Yeah Cork's immediate future sounds worrying based on this article

https://t.co/1oUjRqFtzc

In fairness, their immediate future sounds absolutely fine by that article. It clearly says they'll just go ahead in the FD with amateur players if required.

It's their medium to long term future where the risk lies, if they can't reel in Grovemoor or move beyond being an amateur side again some other way.

[2 Year Contract]

In fairness, their immediate future sounds absolutely fine by that article. It clearly says they'll just go ahead in the FD with amateur players if required.

It's their medium to long term future where the risk lies, if they can't reel in Grovemoor or move beyond being an amateur side again some other way.

Yeah that’s true in fairness, the immediate future in terms of promotion next season will be a tough ask though I’d imagine

[joey B]

Yeah that’s true in fairness, the immediate future in terms of promotion next season will be a tough ask though I’d imagine

There's not a hope they're getting promoted next season now,they have'nt even got a manager,could be a couple of years before you see them back in the top flight......

[Neish]

It's their medium to long term future where the risk lies, if they can't reel in Grovemoor or move beyond being an amateur side again some other way.

Its the medium to long term they are thinking of going this way and weren't during the big spending in the last 5 or 6 years

[GUFCghost]

I've been thinking more about how Ireland might have a football pyramid to fill the lockdown days. If one had all the money and diplomatic skill, the easiest things to do would be to get rid of the current intermediate leagues and replace them with three regional intermediate leagues (West/East/South) all promoting from and relegating to junior leagues in their region. Clubs who want to join the LOI & have the proper facilities could then play off for a chance at promotion.

The only problem is the various clubs/ local FAs that have youth teams playing in the LOI currently. Some of these clubs have long term ambitions to join the LOI, and they're going about it the best possible way given how Irish football is currently laid out. These clubs aren't exactly pop up clubs, they're the products of local football communities banding together to give their young players the best possible chance, and given how irish sporting tradition is more associated with county/provincial sides than clubs, it'd be stupid to disregard them. A new pyramid should have a place for the local FA sides, or for junior clubs that want to band together to form a senior club whilst keeping their own operations going.

I'd like to see another league alongside the regional intermediate level for these teams and LOI b teams. The four leagues (West/East/South/Basically The Old A-Championship) would promote to a national intermediate league. Any club that wins the national intermediate league which has the proper facilities & isn't a LOI b team would then get a play off to join the senior pyramid.

It's a bit far fetched, and I know there's a lot of politics in Irish soccer that would make this difficult on top of the fact the FAI is going to be a mess for years. Does anyone know what the craic with teams like the Mayo & Kerry league in the youth division is now? I remember reading years ago that they had the ambition to step up, but they still haven't. I remember thinking it was odd that Cabinteely were promoted to the league from seemingly nowhere while Kerry & Mayo had teams in the U19s league.

[Mr A]

Honestly I think the biggest and probably hardest first step to a pyramid is to make the League of Ireland a place where survival isn't a huge achievement in itself. Until you make it a place clubs want to be in without fearing they will destroy or damage themselves the rest is probably by the by. Our league has been represented in Europe by more dead clubs than live ones which illustrates the madness.

That's why it's so mad we have clubs applying this year- we have no line of sight on government support, on when we will have crowds back, our sponsors are suffering or some don't want to be seen to be spending money on sponsorship and some are outright gone- it's the most uncertain time ever yet we have clubs looking to join.

[EatYerGreens]

Honestly I think the biggest and probably hardest first step to a pyramid is to make the League of Ireland a place where survival isn't a huge achievement in itself. Until you make it a place clubs want to be in without fearing they will destroy or damage themselves the rest is probably by the by. Our league has been represented in Europe by more dead clubs than live ones which illustrates the madness.

That's why it's so mad we have clubs applying this year- we have no line of sight on government support, on when we will have crowds back, our sponsors are suffering or some don't want to be seen to be spending money on sponsorship and some are outright gone- it's the most uncertain time ever yet we have clubs looking to join.

And most of those looking to join seem to be bat-sheet crazy proposals to varying degrees (Irish Sea County Dublin / Yola) or about trying to protect operations outside of the LOI (St Francis). So hardly encouraging in of themselves.

[DCSIL]

Article i've just posted in the Treaty United thread suggests just a straight swap for them with Rovers II, nobody else.

[EatYerGreens]

Dublin Irish Sea County have sent a few tweets out today which hint at them expecting positive news e.g. saying they're looking forwrad to the fixtures being released on Monday.

They've also got a new GAA-esque crest

[Yossarian]

I see the FAI released a statement saying the licensing process was still ongoing and none have been awarded yet. I guess Treaty United jumped the gun a bit, though I’d imagine their getting the licence anyway.

[Bucket]

It really wouldn't surprise me if it was a nine team division

[2 Year Contract]

https://cms.sseairtricityleague.ie/sites/default/files/inline-files/2021%20Season%20SSE%20Airtricity%20League%20First% 20Division%20Fixture%20List%20Feb%20080221%20Final .pdf

First Division fixtures announced. Welcome Termon Barry College to the League of Ireland!

[EatYerGreens]

https://cms.sseairtricityleague.ie/sites/default/files/inline-files/2021%20Season%20SSE%20Airtricity%20League%20First% 20Division%20Fixture%20List%20Feb%20080221%20Final .pdf

First Division fixtures announced. Welcome Termon Barry College to the League of Ireland!

So Rovers B out, and only one club in.

Has to be Treaty United.

[sidewayspasser]

Treaty United replacing Rovers B looks the most likely scenario. However, https://www.sseairtricityleague.ie/news/2021-sse-airtricity-first-division-fixture-list-confirmed-/id-3593 states that

If additional clubs are successful with their application for a First Division licence, and additional teams are granted entry to the First Division, the fixtures will be amended accordingly at the given time. All fixtures are subject to change.
So they sort of leave the door open for more teams and a revised fixture list.

[EatYerGreens]

Treaty United replacing Rovers B looks the most likely scenario. However, https://www.sseairtricityleague.ie/news/2021-sse-airtricity-first-division-fixture-list-confirmed-/id-3593 states that

So they sort of leave the door open for more teams and a revised fixture list.

Probably just covering themselves legally so they're not seen to be prejudicing the process.

[MKMK]

What a joke that they still have not awarded a licence or licences at a time when they are announcing the fixtures for the season. Says all you need to know about how the leagus is run.

[pineapple stu]

Yep - where else would you see a fixture list which has a side's first league game of the season as "H v TBC"?

Ridiculous stuff.

[osarusan]

Treaty Boys Cominatya!

[osarusan]

Seriously though, just make the decision about the licences. The justification will be plucked from thin air anyway.

[Martinho II]

Treaty Boys Cominatya!

Loved TBs answer on RTE soccer podcast in his response to TBC he said it stood for Treaty Boys Club! Superb answer!

[2 Year Contract]

Worth noting that Derry have announced their pre-season fixtures which includes their final game against shamrock rovers B

[EatYerGreens]

Worth noting that Derry have announced their pre-season fixtures which includes their final game against shamrock rovers B

I guess Rovers will still have a B Team, whether it's playing in the LOI or not (?)

[ger121]

So that Dublin County thing is not a spoof?!

[sbgawa]

Are u not supposed to have an underage section to be in the league? Will they do what bohs have done (call st kevins their underage section) by hooking up with a junior club?? Home farm or belvo would be candidates i guess.

[nr637]

Looks like our new clubs are coming from..........wait for it........Dublin......and......Limerick!
So much for spreading the word.

[Sonny]

I actually can't believe they are even entertaining applications from more manufactured Dublin clubs. Fair enough, if an established Dublin schoolboy or intermediate club wants to make the step up and have a plan in place to do so I'd have no problem with that being considered. Any Sporting Fingal or Dublin City style nonsense should be dismissed out of hand. They aren't viable, and never will be viable. Applications from these type of spoofers need to be filed straight into the bin.

[Nesta99]

So that Dublin County thing is not a spoof?!

This question and a similar comment previously in the thread really shows up the general perception of the FAI. Not knowing whether a proposed club's license application is a joke or not speaks volumes on the process and how administrators of the game are perceived and with a significant lack of belief in them making good decisions for the league and the sport. If it was a spoof it cause nervous laughter rather than any lols.

[sbgawa]

I actually can't believe they are even entertaining applications from more manufactured Dublin clubs. Fair enough, if an established Dublin schoolboy or intermediate club wants to make the step up and have a plan in place to do so I'd have no problem with that being considered. Any Sporting Fingal or Dublin City style nonsense should be dismissed out of hand. They aren't viable, and never will be viable. Applications from these type of spoofers need to be filed straight into the bin.

Given that St Francis an established junior club with a LOI pedigree were "encouraged" to defer their application you would have to think that either
a) Dublin County will be rejected
b) St Francis will be rightly ****ed off.
c) Next years (2022) division 1 will have applications from St Francis amongst others

[pineapple stu]

Especially in a season where clubs are effectively being funded by the Government, it makes no sense to be bringing in new ones. (Limerick I can allow obviously)

It's been said before, we're badly in need of a proper pyramid system here. 100+ years we've been operating closed-shop systems (even in the Leinster Leagues) and the only sure way for clubs to move up is for another one to die, and the only sure way for clubs to move down is for them to die. It's daft.

[Kiki Balboa]

I still think its crazy that Rovers have a second team in the league. Something that is not on offer to any other club

[Burnsie]

this Dublin County farce is a much bigger threat to the integrity to the League and to the First Division in particular than Rovers II.

I saw mention on twitter (Dan O'Donnell I think) that the Extratime report might be a little previous in that they may have been approved for a licence but that's no guarantee that they'll be awarded a spot in the league.

Fingers crossed that these carpetbaggers are shown the door

[sbgawa]

I still think its crazy that Rovers have a second team in the league. Something that is not on offer to any other club

Actually it was on offer to every club but rovers were the only one to take up the offer.
Its a natural development path for our best academy kids in which we are investing a fortune.

[placid casual]

I still think its crazy that Rovers have a second team in the league. Something that is not on offer to any other club
There's a fishing post if ever I saw one.
You know well that what you've written isn't even remotely true.
The league are struggling for well run, stable sides, so they are clearly happy to take on any club that shows an interest to trying to compete whilst showing basic, sound financial stability. Whether stab city 11 or sporting final v2.0 or B&I Utd or any of the other proposed entrants into the league survive or thrive we'll just have to wait and see, but the frankly laughable attitude towards Rovers II by some of the 1st division clubs, who have barely the arse in their trousers themselves, needs to be called out, for once and for all, imo.

[Bucket]

I agree with this and I'm a fan of a first division club. I think their reason was it would affect the integrity of the division! What integrity?

[Dalymountrower]

Are u not supposed to have an underage section to be in the league? Will they do what bohs have done (call st kevins their underage section) by hooking up with a junior club?? Home farm or belvo would be candidates i guess.
Just need one "Bohs will be dominated by this new club" to win the sbgawa bingo.

[sbgawa]

Just need one "Bohs will be dominated by this new club" to win the sbgawa bingo.

Whats wrong with my post?
Genuine question about how they get in with no underage set up..
Belvo and home farm have been left behind by the National league process hence i think they may be candidates.

To put your mind at rest i dont think this lot will dominate anyone, bottom half of first division while trying to bring in usa based youngsters is the likely outcome.

[Martinho II]

IMO considering their history in the LOI if they are admitting an extra capital based LOI side its either Home Farm or St Francis imo. I would be disgusted if DC would be allowed in. It would be another Sporting Fingal fiasco.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I see Monaghan United are joining the Ulster Senior League. Any appetite there to make it back to LOI level?

[GUFCghost]

There's a Monaghan & Cavan side in the youth leagues, I had always assumed those teams (Kerry League,Mayo League etc) have long term plans to set up a LOI side but none of them seem that eager

[Nesta99]

I see Monaghan United are joining the Ulster Senior League. Any appetite there to make it back to LOI level?

Having MagicMe back would be good considering past foot.ie regulars in the other thread. Hope she is good and well these days. Gortakeegan is scarce on good memories for me but would still love to see them back in senior football. I'm sure it has to be an aspiration if it can be sustained without just a few people busting themselves to keep things going. Hopefully joining the USL is a stepping stone back to LoI, helping with players development pathway for the region - that I think Dundalk should be dipping into when there isnt a LoI senior side!

[Martinho II]

Having MagicMe back would be good considering past foot.ie regulars in the other thread. Hope she is good and well these days. Gortakeegan is scarce on good memories for me but would still love to see them back in senior football. I'm sure it has to be an aspiration if it can be sustained without just a few people busting themselves to keep things going. Hopefully joining the USL is a stepping stone back to LoI, helping with players development pathway for the region - that I think Dundalk should be dipping into when there isnt a LoI senior side!

Magicme is abroad now Nesta shes in Indonesia one of those countries.Has being out there since Monaghan got out of the loi.

[EatYerGreens]

Magicme is abroad now Nesta shes in Indonesia one of those countries.Has being out there since Monaghan got out of the loi.

That's taking the loss of your team pretty hard !

[Nesta99]

Magicme is abroad now Nesta shes in Indonesia one of those countries.Has being out there since Monaghan got out of the loi.

Jakarta Mondogs!!! worth millions, and a preseason away trip - more than one way to build a LoI brand in Asia than signing a player. Hope she is well, I would head off if Dundalk left LoI too though North Korea for me - sure Bray is only up the road!

[Martinho II]

Yeah she does still be on facebook and instagram Magicme. Last time I met her was in 2011 after we played them in Longford.

[yurt]

I know it's not quite the right thread but don't think it deserves a new one because the conversation has been done to death at this stage.

Looking at the split season happening in Belgium, Scotland etc I think it's something which should be looked at for our league. Increasing the amount of important games and generally increasing interest around the end of the season with similar ability teams playing each other more often. Not sure what the rest of ye think but I would say the move to a 10 team premier division has been a pretty decent success. Teams like Harps, Longford, Waterford have been able to build much more competitive squads with a smaller division. I think the next step now is to move away from the standard home and away format and playoff system that we've taken from England and come up with something which can generate public interest over a month or two instead of just one or two matches involving a handful of teams at the end of the season.

And actually more related to the discussion of potential new clubs. I know that it was a complete disaster but why exactly did the A championship fail so badly? Is the suggestion of a third tier in Irish football still off limits a decade on from that failed attempt?

Without really knowing the ins and outs on what would make it work, it seems like we could be better set for the concept now. It seems like more clubs are considering the step up to senior football so that they can compete in the national underage leagues. Couple this with clubs like Shamrock Rovers who are now actively looking to get a second team playing on the national stage it seems like it would have a better chance of succeeding than before.

It probably sounds premature but in theory I think the FAI could set a start date for a third tier in 2023 and work with any interested clubs in the meantime to get them in a position for senior football by that date.

I'm aware that the possibility of an All Ireland League could play havoc to this idea but I'm choosing to ignore that for now because there's such little substance to it at the moment

[Nesta99]

Im basing my opinion on a split season done here previouslly 93/94 was it? It was a disaster and nearly killed clubs with dismal crowds outside of the title challengers. As per usual with tinkering with league formats it was probably ill conceived and rushed through by the clubs then running the league. Maybe there are tweaks to a format to try and keep things interesting but a lot of those are gimmicks imo eg European Conference play-off somehow for teams outside the top 3 and cup winners. I think there is a lot more to do before we continue to try and come up with some format that will have any baring on things. The first step is always going to be the same and thats increased investment via FAI prizemoney, overall improving facilities, standards, and the general public barometer of European ranking. Everything else is window dressing. The recently used example of the plans issued by Linfield would be a nice starting point albeit needed for the whole league - I wouldnt care if it was completely cogged as long as there is real buy-in and ambition to attain any stated goals.

[Magicme2]

Howdy all, slight change of username as couldn't access my old account. My lugs were burning with you talking about me so I decided to come in and say hi.

Am thrilled we are joining the USL and I know there has been a fantastic team of people working at the club over the last few years ensuring juvenile football was maintained. It's why we pulled out of the league rather than go bust. We wanted to protect community football. I feel we were vindicated as Gortakeegan is still a hotbed of football activity.

I myself haven't been involved much since we left the league and as stated by Marty, I headed off to sunnier climes. I didn't leave right away, stuck around until 2017. My youngest had started uni, I had no football and didn't see much point sticking around.

Travelled a bit then fell in love with Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and was based there and exploring Asia until came back to Monaghan in November to be with my family.

Anyhow, am hoping will get to see a few games before I go back to KL but my jerseys are over there so will have to get a new one. 😁