Where might new clubs come from?

[nigel-harps1954]

Funny, Ulster Senior League is the opposite this past number of years. More clubs are dropping down to junior leagues. They can't afford to keep running the intermediate sides, competing with the likes of Letterkenny Rovers paying players and Cockhill Celtic who just keep winning it.

USL is down to 4 first team clubs and two reserve teams (Harps and Derry).

[RathfarnhamHoop]

All depends entirely on the league. There is no promotion into Ulster Senior League, it's entirely elective, and from what I'm aware, there's none into the Munster either.

Apologies I missed the "in the LSL" off the front of that. As far as I'm aware it's promotion in the lsl as reserve sides play in the Saturday leagues

[cobhlad]

USL is down to 4 first team clubs and two reserve teams (Harps and Derry).

Didn’t know that. Fairly worrying.

MSL has its faults, the main one being it’s solely Cork clubs, but it’s well ran and all ambitious Cork clubs have joined its ranks in the last ten years. A diverse spread across the county and players who leave Cork/Cobh U19s are staying involved in the sport.

A push to make it actually Munster based (include Tralee, Pike, St Michael’s, Newmarket, Killarney, etc) would be a logical next step, before making the league a third division in our ideal pyramid structure.

One can dream!

[Martinho II]

What has ever happened to the CSL(Connacht)? I remember us playing them in the league cup over a decade ago. Is that disbanded for good?

[Bucket]

It's around 20 years since we had CSL. There are enough strong clubs in Connacht to form a decent league, imo. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but the roads in Connacht have improved significantly in the past 20 years, so if travel was an issue for some clubs at the time, maybe it wouldn't be an issue today.
I think the restructuring and promotion/marketing of the provincial senior leagues needs to come under the remit of the new LOI Director. Promotion to the LOI and decent prize-money could transform Irish football.

[nigel-harps1954]

Didn’t know that. Fairly worrying.

MSL has its faults, the main one being it’s solely Cork clubs, but it’s well ran and all ambitious Cork clubs have joined its ranks in the last ten years. A diverse spread across the county and players who leave Cork/Cobh U19s are staying involved in the sport.

A push to make it actually Munster based (include Tralee, Pike, St Michael’s, Newmarket, Killarney, etc) would be a logical next step, before making the league a third division in our ideal pyramid structure.

One can dream!

Ulster Senior League was a great league at one point too. But in the past ten years, my own club, Drumkeen United, have dropped to Donegal League along with Kildrum Tigers and more recently Swilly Rovers, while Buncrana Hearts have gone back to the Inishowen League.

It's getting harder for smaller clubs to compete in the USL. It's been ruined by money.

[Martinho II]

It's around 20 years since we had CSL. There are enough strong clubs in Connacht to form a decent league, imo. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but the roads in Connacht have improved significantly in the past 20 years, so if travel was an issue for some clubs at the time, maybe it wouldn't be an issue today.
I think the restructuring and promotion/marketing of the provincial senior leagues needs to come under the remit of the new LOI Director. Promotion to the LOI and decent prize-money could transform Irish football.

I actually mixed up the years. We played the Mayo league in league cup in 06. Think we played CSL in mid 80s in league cup top of my head.

[Martinho II]

Ulster Senior League was a great league at one point too. But in the past ten years, my own club, Drumkeen United, have dropped to Donegal League along with Kildrum Tigers and more recently Swilly Rovers, while Buncrana Hearts have gone back to the Inishowen League.

It's getting harder for smaller clubs to compete in the USL. It's been ruined by money.

But USL Nigel is all donegal league aint it?

[nigel-harps1954]

But USL Nigel is all donegal league aint it?

And Derry, yeah.

There were efforts made to include Monaghan/Cavan sides but the appetite wasn't there from them, and Sligo weren't permitted to put a reserve side in. There's a west-ulster intermediate cup trialed this year between sides from USL and one of the intermediate leagues in the north, and that's about as good as it's got there.

[EalingGreen]

As an illustration of the importance of having a proper pyramid beneath any top tier, see this article on Annagh United, who play in Portadown:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52879417

They were top of the Premier Intermediate League (3rd tier) and looking good for promotion to the Championship when the season was closed down:
https://www.nifootballleague.com/premier-intermediate/2019-2020/standings/

If/when they should go up, they could very possibly be replacing their near neighbours Portadown FC, who were top of the Championship themselves and favourites to go up to the Premiership in turn.

https://www.footballgroundmap.com/data/photos/tandragee-park7134l.jpg

Now confirmed that just as Portadown have been promoted to the Premiership, Annagh have been promoted in their place to the Championship. Dunno whether they'll both survive at that level (Ports should), but still, it's good for football in mid-Ulster.

[Martinho II]

Ealinggreen I got this message when trying to pm you:

EalingGreen has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

[EalingGreen]

Ealinggreen I got this message when trying to pm you:

EalingGreen has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.
Seeing as it's you, I'll clear out my Inbox.

But I don't do that for just anyone... :cool:

[EatYerGreens]

Whatever happened to the idea of the Isle of Man joining the LOI? :):)

Anyone else remember that from a few years back?

[EalingGreen]

Whatever happened to the idea of the Isle of Man joining the LOI? :):)

Anyone else remember that from a few years back?Never heard that before.

But in any case, that ship - ferry? - has already long since sailed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52316690

[nigel-harps1954]

Never heard that before.

But in any case, that ship - ferry? - has already long since sailed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52316690

That's brilliant. Fantastic to see a community led initiative have a go at it. At £20 I'd be tempted to become a member myself!

[EatYerGreens]

Never heard that before.

But in any case, that ship - ferry? - has already long since sailed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52316690

http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/2020/03/16/so-ellan-vannin-wont-be-joining-the-league-of-ireland-after-all/

It was probably just Delaney hiding his money on the Isle of Man and making empty promises to them to keep them happy (a le Lee Power).

"Yeah, yeah - course you can join the League of Ireland, lads. Now, about that interest rate on my anonymous bank account...."

[nigel-harps1954]

http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/2020/03/16/so-ellan-vannin-wont-be-joining-the-league-of-ireland-after-all/

It was probably just Delaney hiding his money on the Isle of Man and making empty promises to them to keep them happy (a le Lee Power).

"Yeah, yeah - course you can join the League of Ireland, lads. Now, about that interest rate on my anonymous bank account...."

Actually, the owner of the club responded to me on the socials there when I suggested the League of Ireland would have been welcoming to them with "they didn’t feel the same way when we made enquiries to them 18 months ago while we were figuring things out."

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Sure 18 months ago any enquiries would have been met with "we need one more to join with you or you can wait for a team to go under, oh and we'll need 8 grand up front thanks, oh and you can expect to be fined a lot, and not last but you shouldn't expect any leniency with fixture list, we'll probably have you away to Cobh on the Friday and away to Galway the next Monday... Hello you still there? "

[EatYerGreens]

Actually, the owner of the club responded to me on the socials there when I suggested the League of Ireland would have been welcoming to them with "they didn’t feel the same way when we made enquiries to them 18 months ago while we were figuring things out."

Sounds like Delaney didn't get the interest rate he was hoping then.

[EalingGreen]

http://leagueofireland.ie/index.php/2020/03/16/so-ellan-vannin-wont-be-joining-the-league-of-ireland-after-all/


"Ellan Vannin’s modus operandi is to only pick players either born on the island or with a Manx connection"

So that's Keiran Tierney and, er, 10 other fellas...

[NeverFeltBetter]

Jeez, not sure some LOI clubs would have appreciated the costs of away games there...

[Bucket]

Isle of Man will have to pay travel costs aswell as accommodation for visiting teams in next season's Combined Counties League

[nigel-harps1954]

"Ellan Vannin’s modus operandi is to only pick players either born on the island or with a Manx connection"

So that's Keiran Tierney and, er, 10 other fellas...

At least two players with LOI experience anyway, brothers Seamus Sharkey (ex Sligo,Harps, Derry and current Glenavon I think?) and his brother Declan Sharkey (ex Harps, Galway) have Isle Of Man connections.


Jeez, not sure some LOI clubs would have appreciated the costs of away games there...

If the travel and accommodation costs were covered as they are being in the English system, I'm sure clubs would have jumped at the chance. Would have been a great away day for supporters too.

[Martinho II]

At least two players with LOI experience anyway, brothers Seamus Sharkey (ex Sligo,Harps, Derry and current Glenavon I think?) and his brother Declan Sharkey (ex Harps, Galway) have Isle Of Man connections.



If the travel and accommodation costs were covered as they are being in the English system, I'm sure clubs would have jumped at the chance. Would have been a great away day for supporters too.

How would you go over to it though if it ever happened? Dublin Airport? Its a place I have never being in so know nothing about IOM.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Flight or ferry from Dublin.

[EatYerGreens]

Flight or ferry from Dublin.

Or Belfast.

[EalingGreen]

I know I must be sounding like Annagh's PR Director, when I've never even been near the place(!), but these comments from their manager caught my eye:

"[Promotion is] going to be a difficult challenge for the club as a place in the Championship brings additional costs with travelling, etc.

'We've had a five-year plan in place at the club with our 3G pitch being the first phase and we then hope to improve our stand and changing facilities as well.'

For McGurgan and everyone else concerned with Annagh United, those extra commitments are a natural by-product of promotion, but for now their attention will be on celebrating achieving just that."
More here: https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/annagh-united-title-presentation-proud-18523321

There must be lots of clubs who have, or could have, a similarly progressive atitude in ROI, so I still don't quite understand why the FAI and LOI can't harness it.

[EatYerGreens]

I know I must be sounding like Annagh's PR Director, when I've never even been near the place(!), but these comments from their manager caught my eye:

"[Promotion is] going to be a difficult challenge for the club as a place in the Championship brings additional costs with travelling, etc.

I can't see there being a noticeable difference in travel costs between Tier 2 and 3 in the north. They'll have to go to Ballinamallard (55 miles) and Castlederg (59 miles) now; but they've dropped trips to Portstewart (75 miles) and Limavady (56 miles). Almost half the clubs in Tier 2 are in Belfast, which is only 30 miles from Portadown.

People in the north seem to think anything further away than the end of their road is a major hike.

[Kiki Balboa]

So a list of the possible new clubs for next year:

Treaty United- Limerick
Yola FC- Wexford
St. Francis- Baldonnel/ West Dublin (?)
Irish Sea FC- Stena Line

Missing anyone?

I dont know if the last one is real or not. Here is the twitter account: https://twitter.com/IrishSeaFC . Sparse on actual details. Sounds either like Sporting Fingal or Saudi Arabia Galway. Very strange.

[blueblood]

So a list of the possible new clubs for next year:

Treaty United- Limerick
Yola FC- Wexford
St. Francis- Baldonnel/ West Dublin (?)
Irish Sea FC- Stena Line

Missing anyone?

I dont know if the last one is real or not. Here is the twitter account: https://twitter.com/IrishSeaFC . Sparse on actual details. Sounds either like Sporting Fingal or Saudi Arabia Galway. Very strange.

Supposed to be two expressions of interest from Limerick according local media

[Martinho II]

Supposed to be two expressions of interest from Limerick according local media

Wondering that club in Dublin is ringsend based judging by picture? Heard that Yola FC is replacing Wexford FC altogether.

[Kiki Balboa]

Wondering that club in Dublin is ringsend based judging by picture? Heard that Yola FC is replacing Wexford FC altogether.

They asked for suggestions of Dublin landmarks for crest suggestions. I dont think they have a clue.

But cant lie, really intrested in them. Cant see them getting a license though

[Nesta99]

I dont know if the last one is real or not. Here is the twitter account: https://twitter.com/IrishSeaFC . Sparse on actual details. Sounds either like Sporting Fingal or Saudi Arabia Galway. Very strange.

Intriguing so Im hooked!! But it has the feel of an elaborate hoax. This is of course LoI so anything is possible but smells fishy...

Assuming that it isnt just all about access to national underage leagues etc. rather than trying to put together a senior club from scratch why not just look at options to buy into existing clubs, it would probably be cheaper as long as the club isnt sitting on a mountain of debt. Cobh maybe, Drogheda? We do need a couple of new clubs but not in a just 'plug the gap' manner be it SRFCII or Irish Sea FC (just imagin all the puns and newspaper headlines....). Mention of sustainability in Irish fooball will generally ring hollow but 2 sdes in Limerck, 2 more in Dublin - just effort of putting licence application together seems too much, especially if they are rival applications rooted in stubborness by an individual or 2.

[Mr A]

I for one look forward to the "Harps In Tune As Irish Sea Put In Their Place", "Cork Afloat on Irish Sea Misery" and "Irish Sea Flood Defense As Student Given Lesson" headlines

[Nesta99]

If you had said 'Harps in Tuna' Id never have been back! Didnt Liam Scales have almost a thread of fishy puns.

[Mr A]

If you had said 'Harps in Tuna' Id never have been back!

Oh dear Jebus how did I miss that one.

[Scrufil]

"Irish Sea draw Pike Rovers in the cup".

[ForzaForth]

Yola FC confirmed to be out of the running for a 2021 licence.

[Kiki Balboa]

Yola FC confirmed to be out of the running for a 2021 licence.

Is that good or bad for Wexford football?

[ForzaForth]

Nobody ever admitted publicly, as far as I'm aware, to being behind the Yola FC application, so it's very difficult to assess whether the application ever had any credibility.

[Eminence Grise]

Is it a setback or the end of the Wexford Yola-bellies?

[EatYerGreens]

'Yola Al-ways Walk A-lone, A-a-lone' ?

[CorribsideSteve]

The Wikipedia article describing the Irish Football "Pyramid" makes for sorry reading. It will take decades to get such a thing in place, but I'd love to see it. That's the real problem, more so than the fear/caution that any new club will have 50 fans and probably be amateur, as there's no money in the game here. Is there still a €19K entry fee? If so,that's enough to stop any regional club who'd be better off being safe in a county/province-sized self-contained league. Seeing as Niall Quinn stepped away from his role at the FAI, is it too much to think he'd have a hand in securing the millions this "football league system" needs, whether through the much hinted at TV Deal, or some other avenue e.g. financial/sponsorhip contacts in the game? Or were his passionate speeches about a desire to fix the game here, a load of hot air? As Carlsberg would say, probably.

[Charlie Darwin]

The Wikipedia article describing the Irish Football "Pyramid" makes for sorry reading. It will take decades to get such a thing in place, but I'd love to see it. That's the real problem, more so than the fear/caution that any new club will have 50 fans and probably be amateur, as there's no money in the game here. Is there still a €19K entry fee? If so,that's enough to stop any regional club who'd be better off being safe in a county/province-sized self-contained league. Seeing as Niall Quinn stepped away from his role at the FAI, is it too much to think he'd have a hand in securing the millions this "football league system" needs, whether through the much hinted at TV Deal, or some other avenue e.g. financial/sponsorhip contacts in the game? Or were his passionate speeches about a desire to fix the game here, a load of hot air? As Carlsberg would say, probably.
The participation fee will be waived next year as far as I know.

[CorribsideSteve]

The participation fee will be waived next year as far as I know.
Thank goodness for small mercies!

[pineapple stu]

FD participation fee is I think about half the PD fee, lest you think the FAI would be charging new clubs €19k to join. They're not absolute monsters.

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't think it's €19k anymore for the Premier Division either.

Seem to recall something like €17k Premier and €9k First Division

[CorribsideSteve]

FD participation fee is I think about half the PD fee, lest you think the FAI would be charging new clubs €19k to join. They're not absolute monsters.
Fair point :D. On the surface though, them demanding such an entry fee from new clubs was fairly believable, I thought, given all the other absurdities behind the scenes in Abbottstown.

[EatYerGreens]

When this thread began in 2018, how may people thought that the answer to the question "Where might new clubs come from" was going to be 'The Irish Sea' ?

[nigel-harps1954]

When this thread began in 2018, how may people thought that the answer to the question "Where might new clubs come from" was going to be 'The Irish Sea' ?

Well..there were enquiries made from Isle of Man FC, so not a million miles away.