The John Delaney Thread

[ArdeeBhoy]

Just lets say the uncertainty is nothing to do with the song!

[DannyInvincible]

The whole episode is rather bizarre. I find myself asking, "Why this exactly, as opposed to the many other things over which he could (and should) have been hung out to dry?", but, if the singing of something that really in isolation shouldn't be that big of a deal proves to be his downfall, like others, I won't fret too much either. So be it.

I don't know why Delaney thinks it's his job to strengthen links between communities. Or why he feels a need to mention that in his statement even. That's not the issue here and nobody seriously thinks that's the issue; it's a side-show and a distraction. He's not a politician or a figure of social significance with some public mandate to enforce or help build peace; he's a football administrator (who happens to be in the public eye solely because that's exactly where he likes to put himself). I had to look up the name of the FA's CEO again on Google; I'd heard of Alex Horne before but if I'd been asked to place the name, I'd have struggled.

Wasn't Raymond Kennedy simultaneously head of the IFA and a member of the Orange Order? It might not have won too many nationalists over, but that was ultimately Kennedy's private business, and it shouldn't really have been of anyone else's concern, especially not those with no stake or genuine/tangible interest in the organisation, unless that membership was thought to have been impeding or detracting in some way from his professional duties. The same applies to John Delaney, although we should remember there is John Delaney the private citizen and John Delaney the CEO of the FAI. He can sing whatever songs he likes as a private citizen, but he can't really cry foul if his detractors jump all over it when he gives them a public opportunity to do so (i.e. singing a song directly after an Ireland game in a busy pub around the corner from Lansdowne Road that has the potential to brew up a storm amongst the serially offended).

Bad politics or ideals aren't his crime; his crime is simply downright bad judgment. Public relations is a big part of his role, but, time and time again, his clumsiness whilst representing the FAI (mainly in semi-formal/informal settings) has simply gifted the media columns upon columns of avoidable negativity over the last few years. This is just one calamity preceded by many. He repeatedly refers to singing the song only in very private fora; the Bath is a busy public house, isn't it, or was the video recorded during a private lock-in?... If somebody had encroached upon his private realm and had secretly recorded him singing potentially-contentious material, he'd have a case, but what on earth did he expect with strangers present in a public establishment in the age of video phones? He's been caught before in videos conducting himself less-than-professionally, so he should be more than savvy to it.

Is this his explanation for the initial denial before the latter apology?:


I now understand that while I was travelling and un-contactable there was some confusion through a third party around the background of a video which appeared and where it happened which led to misunderstanding.

So, when the FAI lawyers contacted the Guardian/Balls.ie (and others?) on his behalf with threats, warnings and instructions for removal, it was all a misunderstanding (on the part of the lawyers?)? Is he trying to claim the denial was rooted in a genuine belief that a video on YouTube entitled 'John Delaney Singing Joe McDonnell By the Wolftones' was depicting someone else other than himself? Was he so ****ed, he temporarily forgot the moment?!

And this...:


The recording was made without the knowledge of anyone in attendance was made to try to construe some link between me and a non-peaceful approach to life which I reject completely.

...

I have said in the past that I come from a nationalist background. My grandfather fought in the war of independence and the civil war but both my family and I reject violence completely and are 100% aligned to the democratic process which has brought about so much progress in Ireland.

Is anyone seriously even suggesting that he's a militant republican or advocating the use of physical force? :confused:

His calamitous denial and later apology have only made the situation worse for himself. Had he just ignored it and not given the story the time of day, it might well have just blown over. He's made an absolute meal of it now though and shot himself in the foot. Crying on Pat Kenny and everything, good lord!

The abuse of Emma English was cretinous, but a total smokescreen, without doubt. Poor St. John the Baptist... :rolleyes:

[Crosby87]

I always heard Delaney was the guy in the black mask at Bobby Sands funeral.

[geysir]

-------Is anyone seriously even suggesting that he's a militant republican or advocating the use of physical force? :confused:

No doubt that anyone who sings "the night they drove ol' dixie down" is an apologist for the backwoods, red necked terrorists who fought for the continued right to have slavery in law, or Christy Moore, the nations most popular musician..... ever, "ah sure he does have a few shadows in his repertoire"
But we really should switch to Ireland's Call and ditch that sectarian republican abomination, the Soldiers Song.

[BonnieShels]

But we really should switch to Ireland's Call and ditch that sectarian republican abomination, the Soldiers Song.

No. Just no.

Ireland's Call is about as rousing as a puppy's yelp.

[Charlie Darwin]

Would be great craic to see the IFA's reaction to the FAI instituting a song that calls for unity of the four provinces of Ireland.

[tricky_colour]

Football fans in the North are struggling with this bit of the statement:

"and have worked tirelessly through my role at the Football Association of Ireland to strengthen links between communities on this island, north and south."

Anyone throw any light on this tireless work and give some examples of the strengthened links between communities?


Well I suppose he has linked both sets of fans with sectarian songs.

[Crosby87]

Does karaoke night at the local pub often end in tears, lads?

[Charlie Darwin]

Does karaoke night at the local pub often end in tears, lads?
Apparently not until a few mornings later, after a getaway in "Marbs".

[ArdeeBhoy]

But we really should switch to Ireland's Call and ditch that sectarian republican abomination, the Soldiers Song.
Irony alert?

[Crosby87]

Are you cooking a turkey on Thursday, Charlie?

[Charlie Darwin]

A turkey? What do you mean?

[Crosby87]

I thought you started celebrating Thanksgiving last year.

[Charlie Darwin]

Incorrect, I don't eat meat my good man. Why else do you think I haven't given in to my hipster instincts and sampled Crackbird?

[Lim till i die]

Anybody caught singing "Joe McDonnell" on a night out should be immediately cornered and asked to name the 10 Hunger Strikers who died.

When they fail (and they will fail) they should be put into a coal bag and launched into the nearest river. For the benefit of the gene pool you understand.

Why in the name of Allah would anyone want to sing that on a night out anyway. Maudlin rubbish. And why does Bobby Sands get a clap and none of the rest of them? They all equally starved themselves to death so PSF could power share in the north and Martin McGuinness could hob nob with the queen afterall.

Typical, cringeworthy, Paddywhackery. "ah shur those brave boys fought the evil Saxon foe, to be sure, to be sure. Fairplay to them, fairplay to them. Whos round is it anyway begorrah"

Rant over.

As for honest John??

What would you expect from a pig only a grunt.

A "controversey" that will have about as much impact on his gobdaw powerbase up and down the country as a fart in a hurricane.

[Charlie Darwin]

Anybody caught singing "Joe McDonnell" on a night out should be immediately cornered and asked to name the 10 Hunger Strikers who died.
Only saw the avatar on first viewing and was sure this was a post from your fellow died in the wool Limerick man Sean South.

[DannyInvincible]

If Delaney genuinely thinks the video was recorded slyly during a completely private gathering in order to give the bizarre impression he is pro-violence (although nobody was putting words in his mouth), then he'd be the one who's been wronged, so why is he apologising if he believes that to be the case? What exactly is he apologising for if he's adamant he's the victim here?

[bennocelt]

No doubt that anyone who sings "the night they drove ol' dixie down" is an apologist for the backwoods, red necked terrorists who fought for the continued right to have slavery in law, or Christy Moore, the nations most popular musician..... ever, "ah sure he does have a few shadows in his repertoire"
But we really should switch to Ireland's Call and ditch that sectarian republican abomination, the Soldiers Song.


Noooooooooooooooooo. I dont mind a song to represent both sides, but please can we get rid of that dirge!

[GypsyBlackCat]

What's the comparison? what are you alluding to?


That Delaney would gladly see the Sash at Rangers SC event if it meant he'd get 5 more minutes in the limelight. But the money would have to be right. Our John has standards!

[Gather round]

Anybody caught singing "Joe McDonnell" on a night out should be immediately cornered and asked to name the 10 Hunger Strikers who died

We found this little ditty useful as an aide-memoire back in the day:

Sands made a stand
Hughes got the Blues
McCreesh made a speech
O'Hara went too far-a
McDonnell the new O'Connell
Hurson there in person
Lynch was a cinch
Doherty so naughty
McElwee running free
Devine serving time

EJ Gather Round, aged 19 1/4


Part of his job is to portray a good image of Irish football and to manage relations with the IFA over sensitive matters, rspecially when they are accusing us of sectarianism / apartheid

Singing republican songs in public with England due to visit Dublin 19 years after a highly politically charged atmosphere is foolhardy

Any accusations of apartheid were absurd, crass even, probably best ignored.

There's unlikely to be a highly-charged atmosphere at the England game- circumstances aren't really comparable with 1995.


Football fans in the North are struggling with this bit of the statement:

"and have worked tirelessly through my role at the Football Association of Ireland to strengthen links between communities on this island, north and south."

Anyone throw any light on this tireless work and give some examples of the strengthened links between communities?

Give the guy a break, he's given you an all-Ireland team (if helped out by the occasional Englishman or Scot)...


The difference in context between a rebel song being sung in a pub in south Dublin and a Rangers FC function in Glasgow or Northern Ireland is massive

Would be great craic to see the IFA's reaction to the FAI instituting a song that calls for unity of the four provinces of Ireland

Indeed. Irish paramilitarism, it's much more of a problem in Glasgow. At least that Rangers guy could sing, he's a spit of the bloke who fronted 70s hitmakers Mungo Jerry.

I doubt the IFA have a problem with you finding some good players in Monaghan, although giving them a club to play for might be a start.

BTW the new UKIP MP Mark Reckless thinks people from the Irish Republic aren't immigrants in Britain. Prob as his Ma's from Sligo and her Da was a FF TD.

[tetsujin1979]

BTW the new UKIP MP Mark Reckless thinks people from the Irish Republic aren't immigrants in Britain. Prob as his Ma's from Sligo and her Da was a FF TD.
Off topic, but this is nothing new from UKIP. Farage is on record as saying that any Irish living in the UK wouldn't be subjected to forced repatrioting, as they considered Ireland to be part of the UK anyway.

[BonnieShels]

I'm glad he thinks that. But God bless him a cursory glance at the law indicates as much. Irish Citizens in Britain aren't "alien" and have the same rights automatically as British citizens do. Except a vote in a "constitutional" referendum. Which is as a result of that imposition being placed on British citizens here for referenda and Presidential elections. It has been ever thus since 1949 and Costello's trip to Canada.

But you knew that. As foreign as Jonesboro and Ravensdale are to each in comparison to the undoubted similarity of Fermanagh (and Antrim, Derry, Down, Tyrone Armagh) to Finchley.

[Mr_Parker]

What's the comparison? what are you alluding to?

How it was recognised that behaviour in public has consequences for such figures and some see the need to fall on their own sword.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We found this little ditty useful as an aide-memoire back in the day:

Sands made a stand
Hughes got the Blues
McCreesh made a speech
O'Hara went too far-a
McDonnell the new O'Connell
Hurson there in person
Lynch was a cinch
Doherty so naughty
McElwee running free
Devine serving time

EJ Gather Round, aged 19 1/4



Any accusations of apartheid were absurd, crass even, probably best ignored.

There's unlikely to be a highly-charged atmosphere at the England game- circumstances aren't really comparable with 1995.



Give the guy a break, he's given you an all-Ireland team (if helped out by the occasional Englishman or Scot)...



Indeed. Irish paramilitarism, it's much more of a problem in Glasgow. At least that Rangers guy could sing, he's a spit of the bloke who fronted 70s hitmakers Mungo Jerry.

I doubt the IFA have a problem with you finding some good players in Monaghan, although giving them a club to play for might be a start.

BTW the new UKIP MP Mark Reckless thinks people from the Irish Republic aren't immigrants in Britain. Prob as his Ma's from Sligo and her Da was a FF TD.
Except you made up that 'ditty' today...and unsure of the relevance of the rest to JD. Talk about laboured points...

Though I suppose the North too have as many 'Eng.' & 'Scots' players too these days...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Off topic, but this is nothing new from UKIP. Farage is on record as saying that any Irish living in the UK wouldn't be subjected to forced repatrioting, as they considered Ireland to be part of the UK anyway.
Ah, God bless their patronisng attitude to their former illegal Empire. :rolleyes:
Gross Hypocrisy by them of course, when it comes to skin colour...

[DannyInvincible]

Noooooooooooooooooo. I dont mind a song to represent both sides, but please can we get rid of that dirge!

I think geysir was being a slight bit sarcastic. :)

[DannyInvincible]

I heard it. Of course some cynics out there will say its a pathetic attempt to divert attention from the sing song and to court favourable PR and public opinion regarding the ( in poor taste) comments posted on another forum re his partner.

I wouldn't say that though.

What would you say it is? It's a text-book deflection; the appeal for pity.

His old ex-IFA buddy, Jim Boyce, has been having a go too: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/delaney-says-legal-threat-against-newspaper-was-a-misunderstanding-30775744.html


I am totally shocked and saddened that someone I have known for many years should get involved in such stupidity. This type of behaviour from the chief executive of the Football Association of Ireland has to be condemned.

[GypsyBlackCat]

In fairness Boyce has a point. Some people may look upon Joe McDonnell and the Hunger Strikers as Freedom Fighters others will say they are terrorist. It's a bit like the 'No Surrender' song at the Scotland v England game. England fans claim it's a defiant song about standing up terrorism while many say it's anti-Irish and is to cause offence towards the Irish. As the CEO of the FAI one of his jobs is to build links with other associations and groups. For being 'one of the boys' he has tarished the FAI image (no laugh!). We live in a politically correct society now days so anything like this will cause offence. Delaney should have known this. It's ok for a group of lads to sing a Republican song in public (even if I don't agree with them) but for a CEO who loves the limelight......

[Stuttgart88]

As CEO of the FAI part of the unwritten job description is to portray the organisation and the sport in a good light. He repeatedly fails to do this. There is a degree of diplomacy required too, maintaining relations with organisations such as the IFA, the SFA, the FA etc. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the sing song was a private affair. He is an instantly recognisable public figure, even more so after he hired a publicist to get him noticed in the social sections of the papers.

He was singing in a pub adjacent to the stadium, full of Irish football fans after an Irish international game. There is no way on earth he can expect this situation to be considered not public.

Dignity, decorum and judgment were all absent from his behaviour. His efforts to deflect attention using his partner smacks of desperation.

I see both Boyce and Regan have criticised his actions. Even if they are being over sensitive (debatable) his actions have given them something to complain about and something to tarnish the image of Irish football with.

I personally have no issue with rebel songs (I actually don't really know any myself apart from The Fields or On The One Road - are they even rebel songs?) and he shouldn't have to apologise for his political views, but singing that song in public displayed very bad judgment. On top of the other issues, many of his own customers and members would not share his Republican politics and his actions suggest to me that in some way he thinks that being an Irish football fan goes hand in hand with an empathy towards the rebel song scene. It doesn't.

[bennocelt]

I think geysir was being a slight bit sarcastic. :)

I figured but one can never tell with Geysir:)

[Irwin3]

I'm glad he thinks that. But God bless him a cursory glance at the law indicates as much. Irish Citizens in Britain aren't "alien" and have the same rights automatically as British citizens do. Except a vote in a "constitutional" referendum. Which is as a result of that imposition being placed on British citizens here for referenda and Presidential elections. It has been ever thus since 1949 and Costello's trip to Canada.

But you knew that. As foreign as Jonesboro and Ravensdale are to each in comparison to the undoubted similarity of Fermanagh (and Antrim, Derry, Down, Tyrone Armagh) to Finchley.

Pretty much correct. Irish citizens in the UK are not treated as foreign. They are granted settled status also known as 'indefinite leave to remain' upon setting foot in the country.

As far as I'm aware, British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens are entitled to vote in all British election including referenda. They don't have the same restrictions that we place on non-Irish citizens in our referenda.

[Gather round]

I personally have no issue with rebel songs (I actually don't really know any myself apart from The Fields or On The One Road - are they even rebel songs?) and he shouldn't have to apologise for his political views, but singing that song in public displayed very bad judgment. On top of the other issues, many of his own customers and members would not share his Republican politics and his actions suggest to me that in some way he thinks that being an Irish football fan goes hand in hand with an empathy towards the rebel song scene. It doesn't

It might be helpful to distinguish songs by period before everyone gets too carried away (over on OWC the righteous indignation is now calling for a bestial punishment involving James McClean and the curried yogurt of a ritually slaughtered goat).

Pre-Independence paramilitarism (up to say 1926): acceptable, even obligatory as proof of your proud Republican credentials

Post-independence: slightly more risque, acceptable on a lads' night out or on wor Jack's team coach, but not in mixed or polite company. Like f*rting at Mass, really

NI Troubles since 1969: defo infra-dig under any circumstances

Similar could apply to American C & W as mentioned by Geysir. Civil War and Vietnam tunes in the first two categories, anything mentioning bombing Iraq or Afghan in the third.

[DannyInvincible]

(over on OWC the righteous indignation is now calling for a bestial punishment involving James McClean and the curried yogurt of a ritually slaughtered goat).

I'm glad I have no access to it for once. It'd probably turn me pro-Delaney!

[Mr A]

FAI President's statement: http://www.fai.ie/domestic/news/statement-from-tony-fitzgerald-on-behalf-of-fai-board

Comprehensive.

[barney]

FAI President's statement: http://www.fai.ie/domestic/news/statement-from-tony-fitzgerald-on-behalf-of-fai-board

Comprehensive.

Holy sh!t. That's a pretty terrible statement by anyone's standards. Jesus wept.

[Nesta99]

Contract extension until 2020 so even if gets a push the FAI wont be able to afford to get rid bout 2mil if he was sacked tomorrow! Who awards 6 yr contracts except to ones self, he is some boyo...

[Stuttgart88]

Why the mention of the cyber bullying? I'd ,one to know how extensive it was anyway.

I would guess that JD is personally costing the FAI a fortune. I know so many people who have given up on attending Irish football because of how they think the FAI is running the game. He is a walking PR disaster for the association.

[gastric]

Why the mention of the cyber bullying? I'd ,one to know how extensive it was anyway.

I would guess that JD is personally costing the FAI a fortune. I know so many people who have given up on attending Irish football because of how they think the FAI is running the game. He is a walking PR disaster for the association.

Well said Stutts! When I looked at YBIG last week, someone mentioned that Philip Browne from the IRFU is on about 200K. He is the type of chief we need, low profile, effective and good with the media. I would say Delaney's expense account details would start a riot if it ever became public. He is what we don't need, someone whose public profile takes away from the organisation and is seen to be Putin like. Imagine if he and Roy could make babies!

[Charlie Darwin]

It might be helpful to distinguish songs by period before everyone gets too carried away (over on OWC the righteous indignation is now calling for a bestial punishment involving James McClean and the curried yogurt of a ritually slaughtered goat).

Pre-Independence paramilitarism (up to say 1926): acceptable, even obligatory as proof of your proud Republican credentials

Post-independence: slightly more risque, acceptable on a lads' night out or on wor Jack's team coach, but not in mixed or polite company. Like f*rting at Mass, really

NI Troubles since 1969: defo infra-dig under any circumstances

Similar could apply to American C & W as mentioned by Geysir. Civil War and Vietnam tunes in the first two categories, anything mentioning bombing Iraq or Afghan in the third.
Think you might be over-thinking this one. I'd make one broad distinction, between the period when the British state was habitually murdering Irish people and the period after. So Joe McDonnell is fair game, Pearse McAuley not so much.

[tetsujin1979]

Lads, there's a current affairs forum if you want to discuss the affiliation of various Irish folk songs, let's keep the discussion on Delaney here, ok?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think it's relevant to whether Delaney was stoking up sectarian tensions or not, but I agree it shouldn't be up for debate that it was sectarian. On the other hand, a man with a diplomatic role like his should be able to realise that some people will interpret it deviously and a more intelligent man would have the cop on not to embarrass the organisation like that.

[DannyInvincible]

Why the mention of the cyber bullying? I'd ,one to know how extensive it was anyway.

Wasn't it just a few posters in a John Delaney thread on YBIG? I'm not sure what its nature was exactly, but the whole thread was promptly deleted and a number of posters decided to make a donation to a charity of Emma English's choosing as a means of apology, as far as I know. The Irish Mirror (I think) was reporting there was abuse directed towards her on Twitter and Facebook, but I'm not even sure that was the case. Unpalatable stuff from a few pseudonymous unsavouries, certainly, but it's so obviously being slyly exploited by Delaney as a means to distract from genuine criticism. It's completely irrelevant to the clumsy sing-song matter and other concerns arising or outstanding regarding Delaney's fitness to run and represent the FAI in a professional and discerning manner, so it's frustrating to see it being used to help sweep genuine questions and potential ammunition for change under the carpet.

The statement licks arse and insults the intelligence of anyone who cares about Irish football. The board might like to think they can publicly "close matters" when they want and John Delaney might even try to gag people with legal threats, but nobody's being fooled (or silenced). This is the information/communication age. People are free to continue talking and will do so.

[DannyInvincible]

I think it's relevant to whether Delaney was stoking up sectarian tensions or not, but I agree it shouldn't be up for debate that it was sectarian. On the other hand, a man with a diplomatic role like his should be able to realise that some people will interpret it deviously and a more intelligent man would have the cop on not to embarrass the organisation like that.

The Telegraph went with the following (ridiculous) headline earlier: 'Attempted cover-up of John Delaney sectarian scandal by Football Association of Ireland would make Nixon proud (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/republic-of-ireland/11255980/Attempted-cover-up-of-John-Delaney-sectarian-scandal-by-Football-Association-of-Ireland-would-make-Nixon-proud.html)'

[thischarmingman]

FAI President's statement: http://www.fai.ie/domestic/news/statement-from-tony-fitzgerald-on-behalf-of-fai-board

Comprehensive.

That first sentence is excruciating - it's not even grammatically correct. Not to mention the clumsy attempt to link the bullying and the singing, and the lack of an actual apology - "if he offended anyone."

Clueless.

[GypsyBlackCat]

Why the mention of the cyber bullying? I'd ,one to know how extensive it was anyway.

I would guess that JD is personally costing the FAI a fortune. I know so many people who have given up on attending Irish football because of how they think the FAI is running the game. He is a walking PR disaster for the association.

The CEO of the Spanish FA and the Italian FA get €150,000 each. That's €250,000 extra a year Delaney gets! Why? It's not as if the FAI is a great success story and we have the money to throw around. Imagine how much difference €250,000 a year would make to Irish football at grass roots level?!

[GypsyBlackCat]

That first sentence is excruciating - it's not even grammatically correct. Not to mention the clumsy attempt to link the bullying and the singing, and the lack of an actual apology - "if he offended anyone."

Clueless.


It makes poor old John Boy the victim!

[DeLorean]

Heard it on Newstalk this morning. Chris Donoghue started the report with...

"OOOOHHHHH JOHN DELANEY.... HE USED TO BE IN TROUBLE BUT HE'S ALRIGHT NOW"

:D

[DannyInvincible]

That first sentence is excruciating - it's not even grammatically correct.

Ha, indeed. It refers in opening to two clearly distinct and independent matters, and then refers to the closing of "the matter" in its ending, as if both of the previously-mentioned separate issues combine to constitute a single matter. They don't. It would seem to suggest a rather desperate attempt to contrive a mention of the online abuse into the staggeringly-brief statement by any means, even if it is a logically irrelevant red herring that causes grammatical awkwardness. Truly contemptible.

To be honest, if it was anyone else other than Delaney, I don't think I'd be as indignant, but what the hell. There was a certain satisfaction to be taken from seeing a snake on the ropes, but I think he's managed to dodge the bullet (again), so it looks like he'll have the last laugh. As another poster opined, it'll take a concerted boycott to oust him, but that's not something I can envisage happening any time soon. The Scotland tickets fiasco stirred massive discontent within loyal regulars, but if that wasn't enough to provoke a general boycott for even the US friendly game, I'm not sure what would do it. I'm not saying I have some expectation of loyal fans to initiate a boycott either. It's easy for me to talk as I'm not a regular traveler. It's completely their choice and I totally understand why they'd be reluctant to engage in something like that as it would deprive the players of support (and themselves of something they love), but, unfortunately, I think it's really the only thing that could bring Delaney down given the FAI's reliance on the national team for income.

[tetsujin1979]

Was thinking last night, it's unlikely that last week was the first time Delaney has sung that song, or any other rebel tune for that matter, and probably equally as unlikely that it's the first time he's been recorded doing so.
Is the recent bad will towards him, with the Scotland tickets fiasco and the heavy handed approach from stewards at the USA game, the reason this recording in particular was made public? Like Richard Keys and Andy Grey before him, will more recordings surface in the coming days?

[ArdeeBhoy]

It might be helpful to distinguish songs by period before everyone gets too carried away (over on OWC the righteous indignation is now calling for a bestial punishment involving James McClean and the curried yogurt of a ritually slaughtered goat).

Pre-Independence paramilitarism (up to say 1926): acceptable, even obligatory as proof of your proud Republican credentials

Post-independence: slightly more risque, acceptable on a lads' night out or on wor Jack's team coach, but not in mixed or polite company. Like f*rting at Mass, really

NI Troubles since 1969: defo infra-dig under any circumstances

Similar could apply to American C & W as mentioned by Geysir. Civil War and Vietnam tunes in the first two categories, anything mentioning bombing Iraq or Afghan in the third.

That's got to be some of the most patronising claptrap ever;We're not American tourists...


Lads, there's a current affairs forum if you want to discuss the affiliation of various Irish folk songs, let's keep the discussion on Delaney here, ok?

Except we can't all go on there, so a bit of a pointless assertion...