The John Delaney Thread

[littlebray]

I only got 11, but some of us have WAY too much time on our hands ...

Lovely smile, though!

[paul_oshea]

Anyone seen Ewan McKenna's tweet

[geysir]

10
I just don't have enough sadistic hate in me to persist.

[geysir]

Will it ever be revealed by a deep throat insider in the FAI just what was that mysterious strong case the FAI imagined they had against FIFA over a referee mistake ,that had Blatter write out a cheque for Eur5m? Nobody really challenged that crock of sh´t, except our own invincible Danny who in his inimitable style took it apart, surgically.

Should the FAI not return it? It's tainted.

[pineapple stu]

Anyone seen Ewan McKenna's tweet
This is it here (https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1111291565945819137) I presume?

Looks like still a bit more dirt to come, which is good.

[CraftyToePoke]

Never mind all that lads, any uppers on my top scoring 16 tennis balls ? Is the title mine ? Happy to screenshot it.

[geysir]

What's the prize, Delaney's lost shoe from euro 2012?

[osarusan]

More from MacKenna. (https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1111292089164316672)

There are breaches of corporate governance, of Companies Law, of revenue rules, and according to accountancy he was either paid back 200k or is owed another 100k.

[pineapple stu]

What does "according to accountancy" mean?

That tweet sounds a little bit like a journalist who doesn't know much about accountancy. (And that's most journalists, in my experience)

[tetsujin1979]

had to unfollow MacKenna on twitter, got tired of his trolling for the sake of trolling

[paul_oshea]

What does "according to accountancy" mean?

That tweet sounds a little bit like a journalist who doesn't know much about accountancy. (And that's most journalists, in my experience)

I am unsure where he would be able to see the accounts line by line to be able tell that? You don't get fully audited accounts, you just see final accounts publicly available. THat term makes no sense,perhaps he has someone doing it for him.

With tets on that i dont read his pieces anymore hes so annoying.

[bennocelt]

had to unfollow MacKenna on twitter, got tired of his trolling for the sake of trolling


Yes he has turned into a right grumpy old fart recently, whats up with that? (albeit his tweet on JD was good)

[pineapple stu]

More from MacKenna. (https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1111292089164316672)
His full article has been published now (https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ewan-mackenna-why-the-fais-predictable-silence-cant-be-considered-either-an-answer-or-good-enough-37965302.html), and unfortunately it (to me at least) just confirms that McKenna isn't really au fait with accountancy speak.


In April of 2017, John Delaney says he loaned his employer €100,000. The way this works in bookkeeping is the FAI would debit their bank account as they received money, and they credit a loan account for money they owe to that person or institution. As the Sunday Times reported, an invoice was then received and a remittance issued in July of 2017. However when someone produces an invoice, that's not a loan, and the double entry in that case is you debit an expense and credit a creditor's ledger account. At that point he's now owed €200,000.
This is technically correct - but there's no indication Delaney actually produced an invoice. All that happened was that there was a remittance saying it was paying an invoice. But I would say it's more likely this was just a convenient way of getting the amount into a payment run to pay him back - so the "invoice" and the loan received are the same thing.
This wouldn't necessarily change the fundamentals of the transaction, or its tax status.

The bit about BIK is much more interesting - Delaney did pay it, but in his own tax return rather than going through wages. If that's the case, then the FAI have a potential employer's PRSI liability. That might give the Revenue grounds to say they want to come in and do an Aspect Query. This would be them saying something like "We have seen it reported in the media that BIK is incorrectly accounted for. Please provide details of how BIK was accounted for, including sample payslips. Please note this is not a Revenue Audit; however, we reserve the right to expand our scope if further matters come to light".

I don't know though if Revenue could use a media report as an excuse to make formal contact with the FAI

[brine3]

Delaney saying today that the reason the FAI had to create a new "Vice Executive" position for him, in parallel to the existing CEO position, was because he was overworked.

This guy is even more brazen than Bertie Ahern.

[Real ale Madrid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/dundalk-had-2-2m-of-europa-league-money-held-by-fai-for-11-months-1.3848024

So did Dundalk's Europa league monies keep the FAI afloat from a Cashflow perspective during 2017?

[osarusan]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/dundalk-had-2-2m-of-europa-league-money-held-by-fai-for-11-months-1.3848024

So did Dundalk's Europa league monies keep the FAI afloat from a Cashflow perspective during 2017?

In this case, I think that Dundalk were happy to leave the money with the FAI, and 'draw down' as needed, which is what happened. It's not like Dundalk wanted the money but the FAI wouldn't release it.

[Real ale Madrid]

In this case, I think that Dundalk were happy to leave the money with the FAI, and 'draw down' as needed, which is what happened. It's not like Dundalk wanted the money but the FAI wouldn't release it.

I don't buy that tbh.


Rumours, and in some cases actual complaints, regarding the late payment of funds intended for clubs but initially paid out by Uefa to the FAI, are fairly routine. They are not confined to prize money.

Routine issues regarding pay-outs? If I were a LOI club id be getting my prize money ASAP. Better it sitting in my clubs bank A/c - not the FAI's.


In any case regarding my original query given the following :
a) the 100k loan
b) The asking of Sport Ireland of funding ahead of time and now
c) numerous accounts of withholding prizemoney

- is the FAI teetering on the brink of bankruptcy ?

[Ezeikial]

- is the FAI teetering on the brink of bankruptcy ?

It's always darkest just before the dawn

Aren't the FAI due to be debt-free by 2020?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/john-delaney-insists-fai-debt-will-be-gone-by-2020-but-remains-tightlipped-about-overall-liabilities-37159694.html

[osarusan]

I don't buy that tbh.

From the Indo:

Well-placed sources have indicated that Dundalk received close to €3m in the final months of 2016 with the substantial balance to be settled in 2017.

It is understood that Dundalk's then owners - businessmen Andy Connolly and Paul Brown - were keen on an arrangement where the FAI would hold onto the European money and then release it upon request in the form of staggered payments.

According to one FAI source, they "got the money when they asked for it." This claim is not disputed by Dundalk insiders with a knowledge of the relationship.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-had-dundalks-2-2m-prizemoney-for-11-months-37978067.html

[jbyrne]

It's always darkest just before the dawn

Aren't the FAI due to be debt-free by 2020?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/john-delaney-insists-fai-debt-will-be-gone-by-2020-but-remains-tightlipped-about-overall-liabilities-37159694.html

i think i read that the 2020 debt free status is a fudge as its based on getting up front large amounts of tv and sponsorship money

[geysir]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/dundalk-had-2-2m-of-europa-league-money-held-by-fai-for-11-months-1.3848024

So did Dundalk's Europa league monies keep the FAI afloat from a Cashflow perspective during 2017?
I'd say the FAI put it to good use rather than letting it sit in their account.

There's an argument that the IFA be the sole controlling body overseeing senior league football in Ireland :clover:

Emmet Malone reported today (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/dundalk-had-2-2m-of-europa-league-money-held-by-fai-for-11-months-1.3848024)
'After their Europa League run in 2011, Shamrock Rovers were left waiting on around €500,000 for more than six months and are believed to have experienced significant difficulty in obtaining payment.'

'This (delay) is a particular issue for the various other clubs that compete in the qualifying stages each summer. Prize money has grown hugely over the last decade and having won the league, and so initially qualified for the preliminary rounds of the Champions League last summer then having gone into the Europa League, Cork City would have been due around €800,000 - but charter flights and other expenses have to be met up front.'

'One club claims that while Irish League sides receive money up front from the association north of the border to help with participation, funds that are then deducted when the prize money comes through, League of Ireland outfits have to come up with the cash, often through borrowings, and are then made to wait extended periods to get it back.'

[Real ale Madrid]

From the Indo:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-had-dundalks-2-2m-prizemoney-for-11-months-37978067.html

Fair enough. But Dundalk haven't commented officially and it makes no sense why they would agree to it in the first place.

Yet another in a long list of strange transactions as regards the FAI and cash / cashflow.

[geysir]

Have all the cards been laid out bare on the table by the Oireacthas Committee, so that now the FAI can carefully prepare their answers to the known/expected questions?

[Real ale Madrid]

Have all the cards been laid out bare on the table by the Oireacthas Committee, so that now the FAI can carefully prepare their answers to the known/expected questions?

Unless they come up with a good reason for the 100k loan by Monday they risk losing Sport Ireland Funding. I don't think there are too many hidden questions in any case tbh.

[geysir]

Before the proceedings, the Oireacthas Committee agreed to carry on regardless of the FAI's response to the 100k question. As soon as the committee questioned the sports council, it was clear that the FAI fudged the issue yet again. In a grandstanding fit, Noel Rock demanded the proceedings should stop until the FAI were in the (virtual) dock. The chairperson intervened and reminded him of the pre committee agreement to carry on regardless of the FAI's response.
Malachy Clerkin described Rock as "the closest anyone came to performative high dudgeon all day". That's a nice descriptive turn of phrase.

[geysir]

Latest from the FAI,- some board members did not know they were actually board members, others deny being board members. :rolleyes:

As opposed to offering basic ethical transparency, the FAI board's obsessive concern about optics reaches newer heights, with the release of a 21 page somewhat vacant yet suspicious opening statement for the Oireacthas Committee. Some shape shifting in response to last week's mayhem, they now have adopted a mea culpa approach towards Sports Ireland without adding any clarification. WE are sorry, we didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but we are still saying nothing, except contrary to earlier statements, some of us didn't know anything.

[Scrufil]

Firstly it took me some time to find the actual statement issued by the FAI this afternoon. Is there an easy place to find these things? The FAI website is a quagmire to me.

Secondly the 22 page statement (as per one news source) is by all accounts a double edged sword. If board members were not 'fully aware' or did not know about the loan, and yes in many organisations in Ireland this is true, communication are fuddled and dire, then how could the same members without all the knowledge approve Delaney for his new position?
On the backswing of the blade is the blow that this also leaves the FAI room to say they can't fully answer questions to the Oireachtas Committee because they have not met with the correct people to consult on that particular issue.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Commitee meets with FAI at 0900 tomorrow, link to the Oireachtas live-stream here: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/cr4-live/

[jbyrne]

its infuriating that the FAI have cut staff wages, let development officers go, cant supply basic kit to some of our teams, award pathetic prize money to the LOI yet can afford some of the biggest salaries going around football administration and commission madly expensive consultants reports at will. its all so self-serving

[Cathalsmart]

It will be so interesting to see how the FAI will get out of this Scot free, they as always will find a way.

[Kingdom]

Commitee meets with FAI at 0900 tomorrow, link to the Oireachtas live-stream here: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/cr4-live/

Private session, so it won't be viewable.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That's dissapointing. The Oireachtas schedule didn't say private or public, just assumed it was public. Strangely Sporting Ireland were grilled in public last week.

[geysir]

Firstly it took me some time to find the actual statement issued by the FAI this afternoon. Is there an easy place to find these things? The FAI website is a quagmire to me.

Secondly the 22 page statement (as per one news source) is by all accounts a double edged sword. If board members were not 'fully aware' or did not know about the loan

It was not a loan!!


and yes in many organisations in Ireland this is true, communication are fuddled and dire, then how could the same members without all the knowledge approve Delaney for his new position?
On the backswing of the blade is the blow that this also leaves the FAI room to say they can't fully answer questions to the Oireachtas Committee because they have not met with the correct people to consult on that particular issue
The board were not fully aware of the "transaction" at the time in 2017, but it was public knowledge by the time there was a board meeting which allegedly met and approved of Delaney's new position. That followed on from the recommendations of some alleged secret review, where it is alleged that the review (with magnificent foresight) managed to come up with an appropriate exit strategy for JD. It is just one of those coincidences in life that the fabled review's exit strategy has all the appearances of being made up on the spot by Delaney some 5 minutes before the board meeting, in the aftermath context of the failed court case etc.etc

[passinginterest]

It was not a loan!!


The board were not fully aware of the "transaction" at the time in 2017, but it was public knowledge by the time there was a board meeting which allegedly met and approved of Delaney's new position. That followed on from the recommendations of some alleged secret review, where it is alleged that the review (with magnificent foresight) managed to come up with an appropriate exit strategy for JD. It is just one of those coincidences in life that the fabled review's exit strategy has all the appearances of being made up on the spot by Delaney some 5 minutes before the board meeting, in the aftermath context of the failed court case etc.etc

The review that came up with the new role for JD has been provided to the Oireachtas. There's some more on that here: https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/revealed-details-of-the-report-that-suggested-the-fai-should-create-executive-vicepresident-role-for-john-delaney-37995853.html

[jbyrne]

sport Ireland to suspend funding to the FAI...

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0409/1041666-fai-sport-ireland/

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Oireachtas Committee were hammering on that point a lot in the meeting with Sporting Ireland last week, their reps expressed great reluctance to go that far. That they have today shows how badly this is going for the FAI.

[backstothewall]

sport Ireland to suspend funding to the FAI...

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0409/1041666-fai-sport-ireland/

So this is what the end looks like.

[geysir]

The review that came up with the new role for JD has been provided to the Oireachtas. There's some more on that here: https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/revealed-details-of-the-report-that-suggested-the-fai-should-create-executive-vicepresident-role-for-john-delaney-37995853.html
The review was made public April 8th, and it just reads as pre-packaged to suit a changing narrative. Would it be out of the question that the internal consultation and feedback on this key recommendation took place a day or days before March 23rd? He who pays the piper calls the tune

"Following extensive internal consultation and feedback, the Report’s key recommendation is that the FAI Board consider creating a new role of Executive Vice-President and start the process of recruiting a new Chief Executive in order to put itself in the best position possible for the strategic period ahead," it read.

[geysir]

Regardless of the premature haste to push out the packaged solution which perfectly fitted Delaney, the entire purpose of calling this review smells.
If anybody questions the merit of the new role for Delaney, he can claim it was not me who said it, 'twas from this independent review by first class sports expert JH associates who said it and they are the authority in these organisational matters.
This report comes from a hired sports consultant, most probably given a narrow brief to come up with a plausible context for Delaney to be in the FAI and retain the Uefa position
The wording of the report is fawning, would anybody be surprised if Delaney prepared the script?

The FAI's "enviable position" of having Mr Delaney on the board
the FAI should consider its approach in 2021 in the "hopefully unlikely event" that Mr Delaney is not re-elected to the Uefa executive committee.
Whats that about? should Delaney get the chop from Uefa, he should be restored to former position?

And all this delusional cr*p about world cup bids.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Private session, so it won't be viewable.

RTE says the first hour is private, and the committee will meet in public from 1000. The first hour is generally for discussion/adoption of minutes and procedural issues (says the Oireachtas website)

Link again: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/cr4-live/

[Scrufil]

And there was me thinking the private session was for Imelda Munster to request a medley of Rebel songs from duo John Delaney and Dickie, er I mean, Noel Rock, with pints all round.

[bennocelt]

Is that cathal Dervan behind your fella? If so, has dyed the hair to the tilt!
And a Healy Rae there? Tsk, what the hell

Private session now, after they all got some papers handed to them. FAI Season ticket renewal forms?

[Eminence Grise]

Somebody's been briefing against Noel Rock today...
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/there-is-a-perfectly-legitimate-explanation-delaney-critic-rock-sought-tickets-from-fai-boss-37999766.html

Thinking about the loan that started all this. Who benefited from it hasn't been satisfactorily addressed. There's a narrative that the FAI had some unspecified cashflow problem (now seemingly unknown to all the board), but the source of Delaney's loan is assumed to have been from him personally. Which leads me to wonder: if the FAI did not actually need a loan, did it benefit Delaney in some other way to transfer 100k from personal funds, or one of his businesses? Maybe I'm too cynical, but it's a default setting where the current FAI regime is concerned.

[geysir]

Listening to FAI's opening statement, afaiu the accounting review has not confirmed that there was an actual cash flow shortage, why there was a shortage or where the 100k went.
The FAI say that there was a creditor knocking on the door who was paid 100k

[Cathalsmart]

I’m just sitting back laughing my ass off at how big a shambles this federation is!

[Cathalsmart]

Surely no person with a brain can buy this sh!te that the FAI are spewing!

[geysir]

After the FAI's opening statement, full of self praise, the chairperson asked if the GT account report was available to back up the FAI claims, the Fai president looked dumbfounded, taken aback by a request to supply independent evidence to support the FAI's claims. He must have thought he was at the FAI annual conference where the FAI board's word is gospel and unquestioned.

[NeverFeltBetter]

They've had to suspend twice because the FAI delegation brought typed statements the committee weren't informed about beforehand, which is apparently a bit unusual. Evidence of the lack of oversight the FAI has previously been used to?

[geysir]

Who'll ask the 100k question, why did you go to the High Court in a bid to suppress the story about the loan?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I believe it's outside the remit of the committee to actually ask that question, at least directly, unless the decision to seek that injunction was taken by the FAI board?

Not to say some TD won't ask, Coppinger probably, but the chairman would probably leap in to prevent an answer.