The John Delaney Thread

[Stuttgart88]

There's probably no political reason for an enquiry over the FIFA payment, but it would have been something to see him defend his stewardship of Irish football. When no-mark countries like Iceland are on the up and we're stagnating, you have to ask questions :)
I honestly don't see why a general inquiry couldn't be called. Not so much on the basis of our performance but because so many governance red flags are being waved by an institution that receives public funds. If the GAA can be called up over some retired country and western singer, why not Delaney over the perception that he runs Irish football in exactly the same way Blatter ran FIFA?

[jbyrne]

The idea we had a strong legal case is fanciful.

obviously the handball is no basis for a legal case but what about the seeding issue?
can you change the rules (ie seed the play-off draw) at a stage when the competition had already almost run its course based on no seeding for the draw and not expect some sort of legal threat?

[seanfhear]

Did Delaney Extort 5.5 Million Euro from Sepp Blatter.

In Gangster circles a payment of 5.5 million Euro for no apparent reason is normally down to Extortion !

[GypsyBlackCat]

obviously the handball is no basis for a legal case but what about the seeding issue?
can you change the rules (ie seed the play-off draw) at a stage when the competition had already almost run its course based on no seeding for the draw and not expect some sort of legal threat?

Could other nations not make a claim against FIFA for this? There was three other teams that fell foul of the seeding. FIFA changed the seeding rule before the play-offs so there wouldn't be a case there imo. Costa Rica were knocked out by a dodgy off-side goal to Uruguay in their play-off but didn't go on with the rubbish that Delaney did. The FAI were entitled to nothing. If FIFA gave them this loan in goodwill why didn't Costa Rica, England and Mexico not get it too?

If the FAI felt they had a case over the seeding then they should have pushed on with it. At best it's hush money.

[jbyrne]

Could other nations not make a claim against FIFA for this? There was three other teams that fell foul of the seeding. FIFA changed the seeding rule before the play-offs so there wouldn't be a case there imo.

If the FAI felt they had a case over the seeding then they should have pushed on with it. At best it's hush money.

maybe they could. maybe they did and also got pay-offs. who knows?
they could hardly introduce seeding after the play-offs so I am not sure what your point is in that regard.
the fact is that FIFA changed the seedings situation when the qualifying groups were over and this is a change of rules during the competition. hardly fair and probably hardly legal?

when you are thinking of legal action it is always considered making a settlement out of court. effectively that's what the FAI seem to have done

[pineapple stu]

can you change the rules (ie seed the play-off draw) at a stage when the competition had already almost run its course based on no seeding for the draw and not expect some sort of legal threat?
I think the relevant question is - is there a reason why you can't?

I would imagine the FAI have signed up to FIFA/UEFA rules, whatever they are.

The FAI have pulled a couple of quickies to suit clubs in their time - thinking the Setanta Cup announcement in 2005, for example, when the FAI didn't announce until the morning of the League Cup semi finals that the League Cup winner would get a spot; this seemed to outsiders to be giving time for Shels to pick up their league form, and when they didn't, it was decided their best chance of qualifying was through the League Cup instead. Nothing you can do (apart from beat Shels with two injury time goals of course) cos you've signed up to the rules, whatever they are.

Best reason I can think of is Blatter got so used to throwing around a few quid that five mill for this was force of habit.

[geysir]

I honestly don't see why a general inquiry couldn't be called. Not so much on the basis of our performance but because so many governance red flags are being waved by an institution that receives public funds. If the GAA can be called up over some retired country and western singer, why not Delaney over the perception that he runs Irish football in exactly the same way Blatter ran FIFA?
The FAI are accountable to the state, because they go cap in hand looking for funds.
There are criteria to follow in order to satisfy the terms of accountability for those funds and be deemed organisationally competent to receive those funds. The FAI are sufficiently compliant. Outside that, the state have no constitutional or legal mandate to interfere with the internal workings of a functioning organisation such as the FAI. Unless there are official complaints, offhand I can only think that the tax authorities can waltz in and make demands.
The FAI are deemed a functional organisation running football in this country. We can have opinions about how it is run, but organisationally it is being fully run according to the constitutional agreements of its various entities.
The FAI are performing their duty of accountability for the funding their receive and performing their duty of making submissions for further funding.
It would be an astonishing error of judgement by the government to go into a fully compliant organisation and throw some shapes. It was entirely out of order for Kenny to publicly call into question FAI actions, that was a mere stunt, which typical of his ilk was badly acted. If there was a point to be clarified with the FAI, then it's the duty of the sports minister to make contact with Delaney, clear up the matter, then make a public statement after the fact.

[GypsyBlackCat]

maybe they could. maybe they did and also got pay-offs. who knows?
they could hardly introduce seeding after the play-offs so I am not sure what your point is in that regard.
the fact is that FIFA changed the seedings situation when the qualifying groups were over and this is a change of rules during the competition. hardly fair and probably hardly legal?

when you are thinking of legal action it is always considered making a settlement out of court. effectively that's what the FAI seem to have done

The point being that before the groups ended and a couple of months before the draw was made FIFA announced the seeding change. If FIFA had of announced it on the morning of the draw or after the group stages, then you'll might have a case. FIFA regard the play-offs as a separate campaign to the groups just like the promotion/relegation play-offs here or the Football League play-offs in England.

[jbyrne]

The point being that before the groups ended and a couple of months before the draw was made FIFA announced the seeding change. If FIFA had of announced it on the morning of the draw or after the group stages, then you'll might have a case.

about 2 weeks before the last two rounds of matches to be exact. the rules therefore changed very late in the whole process.

I'm not saying the FAI had a watertight case but possibly enough to cause FIFA some serious thought

[pineapple stu]

The FAI had no legal case whatsoever. I think we should be clear on that point.

Either Blatter got used to handing out sympathy money, or Delaney had some other dirt.

[osarusan]

I would imagine the FAI have signed up to FIFA/UEFA rules, whatever they are.


A wide-ranging and all-powerful Participation Agreement, if you like;)

[jbyrne]

The FAI had no legal case whatsoever. I think we should be clear on that point.


only a court can decide that. are you privy to the entry forms / contracts that competing teams enter into with FIFA?

[pineapple stu]

A wide-ranging and all-powerful Participation Agreement, if you like;)
That's the one I was thinking of!


only a court can decide that. are you privy to the entry forms / contracts that competing teams enter into with FIFA?
No, common sense can work out quite a lot of stuff.

[colonelwest]

Mr Delaney did not respond to calls for comment.


Mr Delaney did not respond to calls for comment.


Mr Delaney did not respond to calls for comment.


Mr Delaney did not respond to calls for comment.


Mr Delaney did not respond to calls for comment.


Mr Delaney did not respond to calls for comment.

http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2015/06/john-delaney-23-630x410.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

obviously the handball is no basis for a legal case but what about the seeding issue?
can you change the rules (ie seed the play-off draw) at a stage when the competition had already almost run its course based on no seeding for the draw and not expect some sort of legal threat?

The seeding was only plucked out of thin air as an issue (in order to give the impression of a stronger case) by Delaney late on in a verbal, televised interview with RTÉ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0605/706185-fai/) after the suggestion that the hand-ball would have warranted the legal pay-out was widely ridiculed. Clearly he was making it up as he went along considering the seeding issue was not mentioned at all in the primary document released in the FAI's second statement on the matter; this was the document Delaney was holding (pointing to) and spoke of when he told RTÉ viewers that the "reputational damage" and seeding claims were covered in it. There was no mention of these later claims, introduced after the fact, in the document at all. The only complaint listed was the referee's missing of the handball.

Also, as I wrote here (http://backpagefootball.com/blatter-gone-big-questions-surrounding-fai-remain/95615/):


Surely, by happily participating in and completing the qualifying play-off without prior objection, it would have fatally undermined any potential future claim against the format by which the opponents were decided anyhow?

One would also have to imagine that FIFA, with their very capable and exceptionally well-paid legal department, would have reserved certain rights for themselves in internal documents exchanged between themselves and all participating associations with regard to deciding the format of the entire qualification process, including the play-off games, or potentially tweaking the format between qualification stages. Such would have completely nullified any validity in an FAI claim on this particular matter.

I further wrote:


If FIFA supposedly understood then (on the claimed basis that the FAI’s legal case was strong) that the late introduction of seeding for the play-offs was a breach of competition rules, why was seeding introduced again for the UEFA play-offs for qualification for the 2014 World Cup?

Was the seeding for the 2014 play-offs introduced late in the day too? Or was it part of the rules from the outset? This article, published in October of 2013, is worded as if it's breaking news and would suggest the announcement was indeed late on: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/worldcup/2013/1008/479178-fifa-to-keep-world-cup-play-off-seeding/

I've been led to beleive this may not be correct though and can't recall for certainty. I've had great difficulty trying to track down the regulations specific to UEFA qualifying for the 2014 World Cup. Can't find them. Could anyone help?

[pineapple stu]

Was the seeding for the 2014 play-offs introduced late in the day too? Or was it part of the rules from the outset?
From memory, it was an open issue at the start of the campaign, and only clarified late on.

So at the start, it was known that it was unknown.

From memory, as I say. Could well be wrong.

[DannyInvincible]

I honestly don't see why a general inquiry couldn't be called. Not so much on the basis of our performance but because so many governance red flags are being waved by an institution that receives public funds. If the GAA can be called up over some retired country and western singer, why not Delaney over the perception that he runs Irish football in exactly the same way Blatter ran FIFA?

It appears that the Oireachtas committee's decision not to summon Delaney was a U-turn after Delaney contacted personally by phone at least eight of its members on either Monday or Tuesday: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/john-delaney-uturn-sets-a-dangerous-precedent-31294133.html


The Oireachtas Transport and Sport committee yesterday voted against the move, despite strong protests from a cohort of young Fine Gael TDs.

During a tense private meeting, the clerk of the committee said he believed bringing in Mr Delaney may be outside its remit.

Nonetheless, almost the entire Fine Gael delegation claimed it would be helpful for Mr Delaney to appear, given the public concern surrounding the events leading to the €5m payment in 2010. Mr Griffin told the committee that a "dangerous precedent" had now been set in Irish politics.

Details of the payment, made following the controversial handball by Thierry Henry, plunged the FAI into days of controversy. At the weekend, both Sinn Féin and Labour members of the committee indicated their desire for Mr Delaney to appear to answer questions on the payment.

But the two parties, along with Fianna Fáil and Independent TD Michael Fitzmaurice, yesterday expressed their opposition to the move.

Several of those against, including Fianna Fáil's Timmy Dooley and Sinn Féin's Dessie Ellis, said they did not believe it was necessary for Mr Delaney's planned appearance.

But the u-turn came after Mr Delaney personally phoned some committee members and other Government politicians expressing concern about appearing. Eight TDs, who are all committee members, confirmed to the Irish Independent that they received phone calls either on Monday or Tuesday.

[Stuttgart88]

Is there a theme here? Those reluctant to scrutinise Delaney after his personal pleas not to intervene are cut from the same darker green strain of Irish nationalism that JD himself proclaims to be cut from? Wolfe Toney type Irish versus 21st century Irish?

Surely in any normal democracy any marginal decision whether to scrutinise a guy in (quasi) public office should be accelerated if the same guy contacts the responsible politicians and asks them to butt out? Effing banana republic.

[DannyInvincible]

Not sure about the sharing-of-ideology/politics theory. I suppose it's a possibility, but are nationalists and republicans known to favour Delaney more than, say, Fine Gaelers, post-nationalists or whoever. (Is that the distinction you're making or are you distinguishing between Wolfe Tone's completely civic-secular republicanism and the popular modern-day, ethnic-tinged republicanism of a Gaelic hue?) Is there a pattern? I think one would have to be an idiot if they allowed the sharing with him of just one particular political aspiration (albeit a significant one in Irish history) to cloud their overall judgment of the man. He's a complete gombeen. For an elected public servant acting as part of an impartial body to allow their personal biases take priority would be a complete dereliction of democratic duty.

I wholeheartedly agree with your second point though. His asking of them to postpone it (as if he had some sort of right to a say in their decisions) because there was a match on this weekend was utterly brazen. To actually ring them up personally was similarly galling. What a brass neck. That it may have influenced the committee is outrageous.

[Stuttgart88]

Can you explain the bit between brackets please? A bit too complicated for me!
I just think a rural, dark-green Irish gombeen (and a self-admitted potential FF candidate) getting let off the hook by FF / SF types plays neatly into this 1990s urban Irish emigrant's political pigeon holes.

[geysir]

What are the grounds for some td asking Delaney on behalf of the FAI, to answer questions about a dangerous precedent?
They make public their prejudiced judgement, that not only is this a precedent but that this precedent is dangerous.
What morons are there in the Dail?

[Charlie Darwin]

What morons are there in the Dail?
http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=0&HouseNum=31&disp=mem

[geysir]

:) That's a bit too literal Charlie

but I see or read that the "dangerous precedent" reference was about the supposition that Delaney somehow wangled his way out of appearing in front of these self important overpaid asses.
What was the dangerous precedent that was about to set, that Delaney offered them a 10 year ticket? what grubby quid pro quo are they implying that Delaney supposedly engineered to wangle himself out of this high powered, Garth Brooks public concern type tribunal?
Yet another devious and dastardly blow was deftly struck by the likes of Delaney against the warriors who are only out to protect the public interest from all dangerous precedents.

[DannyInvincible]

Can you explain the bit between brackets please? A bit too complicated for me!
I just think a rural, dark-green Irish gombeen (and a self-admitted potential FF candidate) getting let off the hook by FF / SF types plays neatly into this 1990s urban Irish emigrant's political pigeon holes.

Ha, I think I was just needlessly complicating what you'd said and reading more meaning into it that you intended.

I wasn't sure if, by "Wolfe Toney type Irish", you meant simply nationalists and republicans as a whole or whether you meant only those nationalists and republicans who, like Wolfe Tone did, advocate a purely civic and secular form of republican politics in keeping their cultural identity - be it Anglo-Irish, Gaelic, Catholic, Protestant or whatever - strictly separate. I think you kind of meant something else altogether though; would “Charlie Haughey types” be an appropriate label for who you were referring to?

And then by "21st century Irish", I wasn't sure if you were referring to 21st century mainstream Irish republicanism, which is generally associated with one ethno-religious group - the culturally Catholic and Gaelic - (as opposed to Wolfe Tone's classical version) or whether you were referring to modern, more-diverse and transparent Ireland generally. I think you were referring to the latter.

I was uncertain of the meaning you intended in your use of the noble and mythologised Wolfe Tone's name. I wasn't sure of the gist of what you were saying as his name is most often used in a reverential sort of sense but you were employing it with a negative connotation. I gather it was to refer to the small-time myopic gombeens who may eulogise him in folk songs and the like but who, in reality, probably share very little in common with him and his ideals?

[BonnieShels]

Not post-Nationalism... that phrase Danny, that phrase! The horror!

[Stuttgart88]

As you kind of spotted Danny, I was referring to the band, not the political figure! I was crudely pigeon holing all people who sing political songs in pubs as FF/SF types. CJH types might indeed have been more descriptive.

[DannyInvincible]

Not post-Nationalism... that phrase Danny, that phrase! The horror!

If you have an even worse phrase to inflict upon them, I'm all ears!

[DannyInvincible]

SFA chief applauds his own association for keeping their heads down and remaining quiet whilst doing things the right way by loudly and publicly mouthing off to the media his issues with Delaney and the FAI: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-chief-stewart-regan-takes-5854226


“It has been a challenging week for the FAI in lots of ways. I’ve always worked under the assumption if you haven’t got anything positive to say then keep your mouth shut.

“The FAI have chosen to speak on a number of different fronts, recently and last November, and we’ve just got on quietly and prepared for the match and we’ll continue to do that.

He does make fair points though otherwise in relation to the FAI's supposed "legal claim" against FIFA and the show Delaney made of himself last time the sides met. Delaney's bleating in November was embarrassing, and then to shun the customary official function hosted by the SFA the night before the game when the SFA were not even remotely in the wrong... Jesus.

[BonnieShels]

If you have an even worse phrase to inflict upon them, I'm all ears!

I do. But it would be stopped by the bad word man. Rhymes with runts.

[Eminence Grise]

Hunt grunts, punts? Sounds more like MON's tactics.

[Gather round]

are nationalists and republicans known to favour Delaney more than, say, Fine Gaelers, post-nationalists or whoever

Unionists/ NI Fans/ Brit Media etc. are broadly agreed that JD's administratively incompetent, probably personally corrupt and a p*sshead cartoon Provo.

All that said, there is some grudging respect for his gombeen tactics and sheer brass neck. And of course (although few will admit it), keeping him as story both deflects from our own goons and is ultimately the gift that keeps giving :D

[Stuttgart88]

Delaney arrested

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/06/10/john-delaney-arrested-for-rear-ending-fai-management-team-as-part-of-insurance-scam/#

[IsMiseSean]

Are you having a Jack Warner moment Stutts?

[geysir]

Once a grubby politician gets a taste of 'in the national interest' publicity blood, cringeworthy takes a dive.

Bring Back Johnny
It's becoming a national issue - Government wades into Giles row as Minister calls on RTE to 'reconsider' (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/its-becoming-a-national-issue-government-wades-into-giles-row-as-minister-calls-on-rte-to-reconsider-31298111.html)

[DannyInvincible]

There'll be a 'Delaney Out' banner flying overhead before the game: http://www.balls.ie/football/fans-to-john-delaney-plane-over-the-aviva/296594

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHU34-FWoAEqSMX.jpg

[pineapple stu]

That doesn't really mean anything. It's just a protest at this Dundalk thing

[Spudulika]

Surprised Paddy power haven't picked up on this gombeen element who love taking their lead from the motherland. Flying a banner, it's so last season!

[DannyInvincible]

That doesn't really mean anything. It's just a protest at this Dundalk thing

What's "this Dundalk thing"? Their prize-money?

You make a fair point though; it may raise awareness and encourage people to ask further questions (if you somehow haven't already heard of Delaney), but, ultimately, the only way to get Delaney out the door is to withdraw financial support. Unfortunately, by doing that you'll be unable to support the team, so a bit of a double-edged sword.


Surprised Paddy power haven't picked up on this gombeen element who love taking their lead from the motherland. Flying a banner, it's so last season!

I initially cringed when I saw it, but, according to Balls.ie there's a lot of League of Ireland fans behind it, which automatically warmed me to it for whatever reason.

[TonyD]

Once a grubby politician gets a taste of 'in the national interest' publicity blood, cringeworthy takes a dive.

Bring Back Johnny
It's becoming a national issue - Government wades into Giles row as Minister calls on RTE to 'reconsider' (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/its-becoming-a-national-issue-government-wades-into-giles-row-as-minister-calls-on-rte-to-reconsider-31298111.html)

Oh dear sweet baby Jesus. Front page of the Herring the other night too. I don't know which is worse, grubby gombeen politicians or the gutter press. It's quite a combination when they get together. I like Giles, but this is just cringeworthy stuff.

[Real ale Madrid]

No this isn't Waterford Whispers News but Delaney seems determined to stay in the limelight!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-spent-10k-deleting-john-delaneys-comments-on-fifa-corruption-from-match-programme-31299662.html

[DannyInvincible]

This wouldn't be usual would it?: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-spent-10k-deleting-john-delaneys-comments-on-fifa-corruption-from-match-programme-31299662.html


The FAI have spent €10,000 replacing match programmes for today's crunch Euro 2016 qualifier against Scotland to erase comments John Delaney made about alleged corruption at FIFA.

The move meant that 18,000 programmes were shredded and replaced at the 11th hour to remove comments from a feature from John Delaney on the recent revelations about alleged corruption in world football.

A further 18,000 of the €5 programmes had to be printed to replace those destroyed at an estimated cost of €10,000.

The FAI told the Irish Daily Mail last night that the action had been taken without the knowledge of chief executive John Delaney and had been approved by the communications team at the association.

A statement read: "John Delaney was entirely unaware of this change to the programme. He had already signed off on it and it was approved for printing.

"The decision to delete his comments where they related to FIFA was an editorial one that was taken by the communications team."

[DannyInvincible]

No this isn't Waterford Whispers News but Delaney seems determined to stay in the limelight!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-spent-10k-deleting-john-delaneys-comments-on-fifa-corruption-from-match-programme-31299662.html

Delaney had nothing to do with the decision and had already signed off on the programme, according to the article anyway. Although why would he permit €10,000 to be spent on something of which he'd supposedly already approved? Machiavelli would have taken tips from John.

[Stuttgart88]

So, it's official. There is more interest from our Sport Minister in having Giles on TV to talk about football than there is in scrutinising the effectiveness and inner-workings of football's national governing body, a governing body that even the dogs in the street know is dysfunctional. Says it all.

[Real ale Madrid]

Delaney had nothing to do with the decision and had already signed off on the programme, according to the article anyway. Although why would he permit €10,000 to be spent on something of which he'd supposedly already approved? Machiavelli would have taken tips from John.

Mental isn't it - its a very Delaney-esque type statement - if he signed off on the programme then why didn't they just print it - If he had to sign off on Revision A of the programme - common sense dictates that he needs to sign off on Revision B before it goes to print. But no, there was a fundamental omission from his own article, and they changed it without him knowing.

Sure they did.

[bennocelt]

Delaney had nothing to do with the decision and had already signed off on the programme, according to the article anyway. Although why would he permit €10,000 to be spent on something of which he'd supposedly already approved? Machiavelli would have taken tips from John.

They were very eager to point that out, ha. This is getting like Nero and the good/bad old days of Rome

[pineapple stu]

What's "this Dundalk thing"? Their prize-money?
There was a DELANEY OUT banner at the San Marino 2-1 in in 2007. Delaney was asked about it on RTÉ radio afterwards and said it was just a silly protest at Dundalk fans annoyed that Galway were promoted ahead of them.

[pineapple stu]

Delaney had nothing to do with the decision and had already signed off on the programme, according to the article anyway. Although why would he permit €10,000 to be spent on something of which he'd supposedly already approved? Machiavelli would have taken tips from John.
Ha!

I'd say nothing in the FAI happens without Delaney knowing. Certainly something as major as this.

Also, ten grand is very cheap for printing 18,000 programmes?

[ArdeeBhoy]

The pilot was bought off, hence no plane.

[seanfhear]

Shouldn't Delaney go and Visit Sepp Blatter !

That Outragous Deflection off John O'Shea has to be worth a few Million Euro ! !

[TonyD]

Shouldn't Delaney go and Visit Sepp Blatter !

That Outragous Deflection off John O'Shea has to be worth a few Million Euro ! !

But what about the money the Scots are owed for our offside goal ?