The John Delaney Thread

[pineapple stu]

From a business point of view you could argue that by not making the world cup due to refereeing negligence the association missed out on due revenues.
You'd have a hard time arguing that case given we weren't qualifying for the World Cup at the time of the goal.

[Real ale Madrid]

The FAI received the money in good faith and used it for football purposes.
.

Received a one off payment in such good faith that we were asked to keep it confidential, and used it for football purposes, but you have no evidence of that because a 5m gift from FIFA doesn't warrant even a note on the associations accounts.

[geysir]

Received a one off payment in such good faith that we were asked to keep it confidential, and used it for football purposes, but you have no evidence of that because a 5m gift from FIFA doesn't warrant even a note on the associations accounts.
It is claimed that in the 2011 accounts a sum of Eur1m and Eur4m was discreetly entered into the accounts as income or/and turnover.
This is not a court of law I do not have to produce evidence, I adjudge it to be a very likely scenario based on available information
And I can prove that my ability to judge these things is sound :)

Delaney is an accountant so I would hazard a reasonable guess that he would remember these things and not even Delaney would reveal such a godsend Eur5m figure, if it was not already accounted for. In some ways he acts the buffoon, is a vainglorious spoofer but in other areas he is very competent and has a good grasp of his brief :)

[tetsujin1979]

Statement released by the FAI, includes documentation on the receipt of, and filing of, the money from FIFA: www.fai.ie/domestic/news/fai-statement-050615

[Real ale Madrid]

Back in my box so.

[shakermaker1982]

Thanks Tets.

This stuff is bloody brilliant. Sounds like FIFA might have been experienced in drafting this kind of thing going on the documentation!

So it started off at €5.4m....when you add in the goal project cash.

[DannyInvincible]

If the supposed merits of the FAI’s respective legal cases were explained by the association in greater detail along with how and why exactly the seemingly arbitrary sum of €5 million (plus the additional grant) was deemed by FIFA to be an appropriate settlement, I would be much more satisfied with the overall situation. At the minute, €5 million just seems too good to be true. Why would any organisation, never mind a global and legally-savvy one like FIFA, be throwing around that sort of money for questionable return? The whole thing just doesn't stack up for me. Emmet Malone's general analysis of the situation in the Irish Times has been pretty good and he has shed light upon some serious inconsistencies in the FAI statement and then Delaney's words from Friday night.

I wrote a more detailed piece on the whole matter the other day here myself and have been adding updates (and questions/concerns) towards the bottom since the FAI's most recent statement: https://danieldcollins.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/blatter-gone-but-big-questions-surrounding-seven-figure-payment-to-fai-remain/

The latest disclosure explains the form of the payment and indeed indicates its recording, but I still think there are outstanding questions that could do with answering.

[gastric]

This article is possibly a bit of a beat up on the Indo's part, but hopefully the government will start to pressure Delaney to resign and end his embarrassing reign over the FAI. I would love to see someone like Kevin Moran take over as CEO as he has both experience of playing and business acumen as well. Won't happen , but it's nice to dream.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/ministers-turn-on-delaney-over-5m-fai-shame-31283288.html

[tetsujin1979]

FIFA ban government interference in national associations, and have suspended national associations in the past for doing so, so I can't see any sort of pressure coming from the government to remove Delaney

[Gather round]

FIFA ban government interference in national associations, and have suspended national associations in the past for doing so, so I can't see any sort of pressure coming from the government to remove Delaney

Isn't the pressure coming already with Kenny criticising him openly?

FIFA is in no position at the moment to ban or suspend anyone.

[Stuttgart88]

FIFA ban government interference in national associations, and have suspended national associations in the past for doing so, so I can't see any sort of pressure coming from the government to remove Delaney

Not strictly true. Governments have a valid stake in national FAs especially if they receive public funding. The UK government has twice or three times, at least, interfered with the FA and football. I think what FIFA forbids is direct involvement in the running of an FA.

[gastric]

FIFA ban government interference in national associations, and have suspended national associations in the past for doing so, so I can't see any sort of pressure coming from the government to remove Delaney

Money talks, so if funding is cut or suspended, change will happen despite what FIFA might claim. Government interference, good or bad, happens the whole time and with an election on the way, what a way to gain a few votes. YBIG members would love it!

[DannyInvincible]

Delaney will be livid from the lack of distractive talking points from that game.

[osarusan]

Sadlier having a right go at Delaney, talking about 'rank hypocrisy'.

[jbyrne]

Sadlier having a right go at Delaney, talking about 'rank hypocrisy'.

so where was sadlier a year ago when this story first broke?
it hardly caused a murmur 12 months ago when it first broke but its another bandwagon to jump on now given what happened in FIFA the last two weeks

[GypsyBlackCat]

Regardless of this 'payment' from FIFA, Delaney has to go.

His whole tenure has been a disaster. The national team have gone backwards. The standards of the LoI have dropped and only for the clubs and volunteers the league would be a hell of let worse off. I haven't seen any of these so-called improvements at schoolboy level or grass roots. Kids are still playing on terrible pitches with poor standard of coaching. I don't think Delaney even acknowledges any of the under-age teams and I doubt he knows if we have a women's team or a women's league!

There have been cut backs at all levels but Delaney still tries to justify his €350,000 a years salary (it's more that what Barak Obama earns). Even without all the crisis and ****-ups, he should have been sacked because of his poor record as CEO.

John Delaney is in this for the good of Irish football - he's in it for the good of John Delaney.

[osarusan]

so where was sadlier a year ago when this story first broke?

I don't know. I don't even remember the story breaking then.



but its another bandwagon to jump on now given what happened in FIFA the last two weeks
Possibly so, but that is absolutely fine with me.

It doesn't really negate any of what Sadlier said anyway.

Also, a lot of what makes it (even more) hypocritical is what Delaney has said over the last two weeks.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't know. I don't even remember the story breaking then.


Good golly, what a story.

Short memory? :p

[osarusan]

Short memory? :p

Indeed.

Although it was my only post about it, and it referenced the attractive lady to the left of the headline. I had forgotten her also.

[DannyInvincible]

Are Sadlier's comments online?


so where was sadlier a year ago when this story first broke?
it hardly caused a murmur 12 months ago when it first broke but its another bandwagon to jump on now given what happened in FIFA the last two weeks

I think the reason it didn't really cause a stir is because it was reported on the day of the World Cup final, so was inevitably overshadowed. It was also reported as being from an unnamed source, so other media outlets were probably reluctant to take it on due to obvious uncertainty as to its veracity and for fear of legal action. It was discussed a bit on here (http://foot.ie/threads/168760-FAI-finances?p=1766046&viewfull=1#post1766046), but it was rather brief. Indeed, I see one of my posts (http://foot.ie/threads/168760-FAI-finances?p=1766237&viewfull=1#post1766237) on it in the following discussion uncritically asked, "sure why not?"

If the thing was an unconditional compensation (or barely conditional; the only condition being confidentiality unless we qualified for WC2014), I think it's probably fair enough. Our appeals were going nowhere and we were wronged in an appalling manner, so you could argue that accepting some form of recompense for the pain/damage was morally justified. The law of the land operates in that manner. Delaney probably got a good deal and who in their right mind would turn that down (if what I say is the case and FIFA were stupid enough to put so much on the table). But does that really add up? Would FIFA really just throw €5 million around like that for very little material return? Could the FAI's legal case potentially have caused them damage worth up to or more than €5 million so as to motivate such a pay-off? Delaney claims the FAI are open and transparent - in contrast to FIFA - so I'd like the FAI to reveal more in terms of the strength of the supposed legal cases. There also have been inconsistencies in the public FAI statements, which would suggest they're composing a narrative as they go along or we're not hearing the full truth of the matter.


John Delaney is in this for the good of Irish football - he's in it for the good of John Delaney.

Ah now, sure didn't he buy everyone pints in Tallinn?!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utEfscDzDRA

(NSFW!)

[DannyInvincible]

Never mind. Just found a video of Sadlier's comments here: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0608/706645-sadlier-hits-out-at-rank-hypocrisy-over-payment/

[DannyInvincible]

Sadlier made good, consistent and strictly-principled points, but, notwithstanding the contradictions in the official story and with regard to purported transparency whilst entering into confidential arrangements, would it be morally wrong and lacking in integrity to accept what is more-or-less an unconditional gift (the only effective condition being silence)? (Of course, whether this was actually the case or not, I don't think we can be sure just yet.) You can ask serious questions of FIFA for offering it, but is it crooked to take it? Perhaps you could look at it in another way and remove ourselves from the equation; if FIFA were handing out millions to other associations willy-nilly just to pacify them and keep them in line, I wouldn't think much of it. The honourable thing would probably be to refuse to accept such dubious payments with no grounding in rules or law. Obviously, we should hold ourselves to the same standards.

That's not to say the FAI didn't have strong legal cases that, combined, could have cost FIFA somewhere in the region of €5 million, so as to justify a settlement before further action was taken. A detailed outline of the nature of the legal cases would be very welcome to clarify matters on that front.

Emmet Malone reckons (https://twitter.com/emmetmalone/status/607145594080141312) that leaking it on the day of the World Cup final might actually have been part of the plan of whoever leaked it last year. I thought it a remarkable "coincidence" myself; surely it couldn't just have been by complete chance, could it? Why release it then though? If they wanted it to be overshadowed, why leak at all? What would the point in voluntarily leaking be if it'll have no effect because everyone is looking elsewhere? On the other hand, maybe whoever leaked it thought that, by having it reported on that day, the story could piggyback off the World Cup final coverage and the public, in the mood for football news, might have been more receptive to it?

[Charlie Darwin]

Never mind. Just found a video of Sadlier's comments here: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0608/706645-sadlier-hits-out-at-rank-hypocrisy-over-payment/
He also had a column in the Sunday Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/richard-sadlier-irish-football-has-paid-a-high-price-for-that-5m-31283098.html

[osarusan]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0609/706954-john-delaney-urged-to-take-salary-cut/


However, independent TD Tom Fleming has challenged Delaney to agree to halve his annual salary, reportedly around €400,000 before recent adjustments, to bring him into line with Taoiseach Kenny.

Fleming told the Irish Daily Mail: "He is getting twice as much as the Taoiseach of this country. It is unacceptable and it struck me that in itself is is within the parameters of the FIFA controversy.

"It is not just a matter for the FAI as his employers, but also for the State because of the millions of euro in grants given annually to the association by the taxpayer.

"We certainly need more development into youth and sport, but it looks to me as if the FAI's priorities are totally wrong.

[seanfhear]

I wonder is there any chance that the FBI might be asking John Delaney for a character reference for Sepp Blatter.

He has had some dealings with Sepp and might give the FBI some insights.

[pineapple stu]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/0609/706954-john-delaney-urged-to-take-salary-cut/
Cheapo shot from a politician looking for an easy vote or two unfortunately, much and all as I like to agree

[gastric]

Good to see John putting the game first by asking the Oireachtas Committee not to request see him this week because of the upcoming game against Scotland. Jesus wept. :(


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/john-delaney-urging-tds-not-to-call-him-in-front-of-committee-ahead-of-european-qualifier-31291230.html

[seanfhear]

Sepp Blatter gave him 5.5 Million Euro just so that he would not have to look at him (…..but uuuh err..oggle, oggle the Missus)

Delaney knowing that our Politicians are as corrupt as Blatter is expecting a Wad just so that he won't turn up ! !

[nigel-harps1954]

Is the sh!t about to hit the fan for Delaney?

[jbyrne]

Is the sh!t about to hit the fan for Delaney?

very much doubt it. what exactly has he done wrong that would entitle politicians to question?
the minister for sport has confirmed yesterday that the detail the FAI has provided is in order on the €5m issue

[nigel-harps1954]

Aren't a group of TD's requesting he cuts his salary in half too? Either way, it could be a fun meeting for the guy.

[jbyrne]

Aren't a group of TD's requesting he cuts his salary in half too? Either way, it could be a fun meeting for the guy.

I hope he turns up and asks them about their own overinflated salaries and expenses. He has as much right to do so as they do.

[Real ale Madrid]

I hope he turns up and asks them about their own overinflated salaries and expenses. He has as much right to do so as they do.

Considering our JD gets twice the salary of the Taoiseach - that would require a neck that might even prove beyond him.

[osarusan]

Is the sh!t about to hit the fan for Delaney?

I very much hope so.

[jbyrne]

Considering our JD gets twice the salary of the Taoiseach - that would require a neck that might even prove beyond him.

Delaneys salary is obscene but it still doesn't give TDs the right to question it. People in glass houses and all that

[nigel-harps1954]

Delaneys salary is obscene but it still doesn't give TDs the right to question it. People in glass houses and all that

Don't the FAI receive government funding? Of course they have every right to question his salary.

[jbyrne]

Don't the FAI receive government funding? Of course they have every right to question his salary.

maybe, for what its worth but I very much doubt it will / can achieve anything. its purely headline grabbing by the TDs involved.

[osarusan]

I would guess the meeting is just about the FIFA payment, no?

Or will they cover other aspects of the FAI?

[Stuttgart88]

That standing committee should undertake a thorough inquiry into the governance of the FAI.

[GypsyBlackCat]

Delaneys salary is obscene but it still doesn't give TDs the right to question it. People in glass houses and all that

The TD's aren't on trial. You have a point but that's an argument for another day.

Delaney needs to be taken to task over the running of the FAI. No just for this so called loan but all the other mishaps that have happened under his control. The government represent the people and we have a right to ask these questions. I don't think it's wrong for TD's to ask Delaney to take a pay cut when CEO's of other sports association are on less and are been run in a professional manner. Plus how can he justify his salary when cuts have been made to the prize money to the LoI and grass roots. Also, the CEO's of the German, French and Spanish FA's earn €150,000 p/a so why does the CEO of the FAI earn €400,000?

If Delaney was the CEO of a company he'd be fired by now. His job to reshape and turn the FAI into professional and successful organization. Under Delaney's control Irish football has gone backwards.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not supporting him but Delaney could argue all kinds of things in his favour. Improved financial stability in LOI, Europa League Final, Euro 2020, Euro qualification, WC near miss, increased turnover, debt-write offs, women's teams doing well, Ruud Doktor and his technical plan, exceptional work in economically deprived area etc. He's a politician and politicians are cunning spinmeisters. I think Delaney would argue that the FAI IS a professionally run organisation and that Genesis governance reforms etc were introduced post-Saipan. I don't agree, but it could be a heated argument if it came to it.

One big problem is that the ISC, whose job it is to determine whether the FAI is deserving of public money and whose job it is to scrutinise the FAI's governance, has been asleep at the wheel. also, the public and the mechanisms of government only take a casual interest at best in these matters so little public pressure has ever been exerted on the FAI to get its sh1t together. There has always been a casual acceptance of its gombeen blazer culture.

Compare the ISC to UK Sport. After a series of governance fiascos at UK NGBs, UK Sport now has a very thorough governance monitoring process and no NGB will receive public funding unless UK Soort is satisfied that it is run well. Several NGBs went bust in the 90s and 2000s and they are determined that this never happens again. They have a traffic light system to grade NGBs and to provide early warnings about possible mismanagement. I was at a talk last year by the lady who is UK Sports chief governance officer. I was SO tempted to ask from the floor whether their system might produce an amber or red light warning if one of their leading NGBs had no formal Board structures, whether the role of Chair and CEO were genuinely separated, whether there were any non-exec directors providing advice, whether the CEO being on 3 of the 6 standing committees was an over-reach, whether his salary was a cause for concern, whether the mutually agreed increase in retirement age among officers was a cause for concern, whether failure to publish financial statements outside its membership was a cause for concern, and so on. I'm no expert but my guess is that almost any one of these would have triggered an amber or red warning. Does anyone think the ISC provides this type of scrutiny? Does anyone think this Oireachtas standing committee should be asking these questions? I do.

Also, as a general rule, I hate the frequent comparison made in outrage in every country "he earns more than our prime minister". Why is the Taoiseach / PM anywhere the benchmark? That role is as a public servant that comes with all kinds of perks, not least opening up all kinds of lucrative public speaking, advisory and directorship roles after office (unless you're Bertie, but he lined his pockets before leaving office). Now, earning more than the Spanish FA equivalent is probably a fairer comparison!

[jbyrne]

Don't the FAI receive government funding? Of course they have every right to question his salary.

how could they possibly keep a straight face while doing so?
they can compare JDs salary to other similar positions around the world but......

how much funding does the government put into the FAI? isn't it about 2.5m per annum? that's about 7% of FAI turnover

[Stuttgart88]

According to this article in the Indo it'd appear any hopes I may have had of the Oireachtas sport committee getting interested in the governance of the FAI are forlorn hopes.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/if-john-delaney-spoke-to-other-oireachtas-committee-members-he-shouldnt-have-chairperson-31292373.html

Gombeens overseeing gombeens.

[colonelwest]

Quite ironic that the rent a quote, wannabe z lister has gone to ground and refused several offers of comment since he realised he should have kept his mouth shut after putting his foot in it while trying to look the big man. I'm sure Barry Egan will tell us how much this whole thing that was in no, way, shape or form anything to do with him has hurt his and his wannabe wag's poor little feelings in due time.

[DannyInvincible]

I hope the media continue to exert pressure in spite of today's decision by the Oireachtas committee. Giving Delaney a grilling over what was essentially a private payment (although the nation has a stake in the wellbeing and uprightness of the national football association) probably isn't really within the remit of such a committee - that's fair enough - but I wouldn't like to see this matter sneak off into the sunset whilst everyone is focused on the admittedly massive Scotland game.

I wrote another piece on Back Page Football (http://backpagefootball.com/blatter-gone-big-questions-surrounding-fai-remain/95615/)and thrashed out a lenghty list of outstanding questions/issues. It was a slight upgrade on a more-rushed and less-polished piece I'd already written for Slugger O'Toole (http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/06/09/fai-still-not-convincing-over-e5m-fifa-pay-out/).

[Charlie Darwin]

I doubt the media can apply any more pressure than they have been, short of more revelations about backhanders. The only people who could hold him accountable are the politicians who've moved onto the next flavour of the week, so it looks like he's gotten away with it.

[geysir]

They have moved on Charlie because there is absolutely nothing substantive to bleat on about. The money is totally accounted for, which by Ireland's standards is astonishing. The matter of how the FAI were given the money is of no actual legal concern The issue only provided fodder for the politicians to bleat to the ignorant, casting aspersions about impropriety in the accounting of this money. It is not a backhander when the 'bribe' is legally accounted for and spent accordingly for football, with no apparent quid pro quo.
Except bizarrely, the FAI were required to not pursue a legal case against FIFA, a legal case that I think would have instantly upgraded the FAI cringe factor to dimensions never before experienced.

[gastric]

If Delaney was the leader of a major political party, such is the public's disdain of him that he would have been replaced ages ago as leader. Also, if he was the CEO of a major publicly listed company he would have faced a shareholders' revolt over his self-serving and egotistic approach to his role. Therefore, I can't see why such a divisive individual like him should be able to keep his job just because it's a sporting position. The ongoing embarrassment and controversy he brings to the FAI means his position should be under threat. Having an AGM where questions aren't encouraged is another sign of bad leadership and a sign of someone who believes he and the organisation are one and the same. The FAI would be a better more respected organisation without him, so bugger off John!

[Charlie Darwin]

There's probably no political reason for an enquiry over the FIFA payment, but it would have been something to see him defend his stewardship of Irish football. When no-mark countries like Iceland are on the up and we're stagnating, you have to ask questions :)

[DannyInvincible]

They have moved on Charlie because there is absolutely nothing substantive to bleat on about. The money is totally accounted for, which by Ireland's standards is astonishing. The matter of how the FAI were given the money is of no actual legal concern The issue only provided fodder for the politicians to bleat to the ignorant, casting aspersions about impropriety in the accounting of this money. It is not a backhander when the 'bribe' is legally accounted for and spent accordingly for football, with no apparent quid pro quo.
Except bizarrely, the FAI were required to not pursue a legal case against FIFA, a legal case that I think would have instantly upgraded the FAI cringe factor to dimensions never before experienced.

Is why we were given it of no significance? Why did FIFA insist on a confidential arrangement if all was right and proper? Why were we given it and why were we accepting it? The idea we had a strong legal case is fanciful.