Group D - opponent watch!

[Stuttgart88]

Scotland v England proved (or strongly suggrsted) to me tonight that Scotland can cope with spade loads of huff and puff but are shown up by a bit of patience and quality.

[tetsujin1979]

To what exactly would a Walters 90 minutes in March be a token gesture?... :confused:
surely, giving him time in a means-nothing friendly would be more of a token gesture?

[OwlsFan]

Anyone see: "Gibraltar - No rock unturned" on Sky ? http://www.sky.com/tv/show/gibraltar-no-rock-unturned

Followed the team from its first game against Poland, then us etc. The manager, Allen Bula, starts off talking about qualifying from the group and then dealing with the possibility of getting sacked after the Irish game. Much debate over substituting the keeper during our game. Apparently it's not something that should be done. Why not? If an outfield player is having a stinker, he is usually subbed. Why not the keeper? The team soon went from enjoying the experience to apprehension/worry.

Interesting insight in to the team and what was expected of them. To us, they were just sacrificial lambs - something akin to the saying: eaten bread is soon forgotten.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

23 goals scored by Scottish players this season.
10 goals scored by Irish players this season.

After Naismith & Arfield's goals this afternoon.

Literally every single Irish player is having a goalscoring drought this season. Some going back seasons (Gibson, Whelan).

Virtually every Scottish player has scored at least once already this season. (D.Fletcher, Bannan, Bridcutt & M. Phillips have barely played). Snodgrass is out all season and is usually worth 6 or 7 goals a season.

Truly remarkable, and depressing, stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if an Irish player doesn't score again this season. I can't see any more than 4 or 5 Irish goals combined between now and May,

[DeLorean]

Yeah, if only we had a player that knows how to find the net like all those clinical Scottish lads.

[tetsujin1979]

23 goals scored by Scottish players this season.
10 goals scored by Irish players this season.

After Naismith & Arfield's goals this afternoon.

Literally every single Irish player is having a goalscoring drought this season. Some going back seasons (Gibson, Whelan).

Virtually every Scottish player has scored at least once already this season. (D.Fletcher, Bannan, Bridcutt & M. Phillips have barely played). Snodgrass is out all season and is usually worth 6 or 7 goals a season.

Truly remarkable, and depressing, stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if an Irish player doesn't score again this season. I can't see any more than 4 or 5 Irish goals combined between now and May,
So which is it, either no Irish player will score again this season, or there are 4 or 5 goals between now and May?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It wouldn't surprise me if no goals were scored by an Irish player between now and the end of the season, but even I am not that pessimistic. I think there will be 4 or 5 by the end of the season. There has to be. It's just hard to see where they are going to come from.

And I just like to see Irish players scoring on SS. As far as it's relevance to Intl. football, I don't think it has a drastic bearing. I'd be a little concerned about the fact that Keane is aging/Long is out of position and favor at Southampton/Doyle's career is in freefall/Murphy is turning 32 in March/no-one else looks ready to take the mantle. I'd be a little concerned about how our midfielders and wingers are completely incapable of sharing the goalscoring load. I'm not sure if I see any of our midfield players doing what Maloney did & stepping up in a situation like the one in November. Yes. But ultimately I still think we are on a similar level to Scotland - similar talent pool, they don't have a striker that has replicated their club form at Intl. level etc...

Mainly, it is just depressing watching SS and being resigned to knowing that no Irish players will score yet Scottish players in general (like Wallace! Arfield! Boyd!) score consistently at least every two weeks!

I really would have thought McGeady would have pushed on after his early season form or Brady would finally pushed on after his brace against the U.S.A.

[DeLorean]

Your points about our midfielders not chipping in is a valid one, but I really couldn't care less how many Scots are scoring/have scored this season. It's pretty clear they're as weak in that department as us when it comes to the national side. McGeady stepping up in Georgia is comparable to what Maloney did against us, granted we're better opposition. I watched the Everton game earlier and McGeady looks like he's lost a bit of his early season confidence. I suppose only being in and out of the side, and invariably substituted when he does play, will do that to a player.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought there was a spell several weeks back where the Irish Championship players were out scoring the Scots? And if anything the fact that it was Mulgrew that was the difference (Naismith was a cut above most too) in glasgow shows that consistency and standard of week in / week out play counts for not that much at international level. Look at Costa Rica.

Yep, I'd prefer we had more guys featuring prominently on SS more frequently but all in all I think there's not much in it. I think our a Derby, Ipswich, Bournemouth and Brentford players are doing as well as the Scots at that level, at least.

TOWK, honest question: if Richard Keogh was Scottish would you think of him as a brave, honest and effective old school centre back who plays well more often than not, or a self-obsessed walking liability that we could exploit?

[Stuttgart88]

No answer, fair enough, to be expected.

Anyway, Alan McGregor looked rank shyte against West Ham today.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Last year they were heavily outscoring the Irish in the Championship. This year it's the Premiership. I should have quit while I was ahead.

I would figure Keogh as being on the same level as Hanley, Greer and Martin there or thereabouts. Do I think he should be ahead of O'Shea, Wilson, Clark or Delaney when they are playing Premier League football? No.

His performance against Portugal was the worst I have seen of an Irish CB in a long time. Before that, I thought his performances against Costa Rica & Serbia were cause for concern.

You could argue e.g. O'Dea had a rotter against Germany or the defence had a nightmare against Spain but O'Dea has been relatively faultless apart from that and there were mitigating circumstances for those results.

And I am not having any of this "Portugal are a great team" and "They will be one of the favorites for the World Cup" crap I heard after the match from one or two players. Excuse me but Portugal are a middlin' team that regularly struggle through qualifying campaigns and struggle to score against teams like Liechtenstein and Luxembourg.

[tetsujin1979]

Last year they were heavily outscoring the Irish in the Championship. This year it's the Premiership. I should have quit while I was ahead.

I would figure Keogh as being on the same level as Hanley, Greer and Martin there or thereabouts. Do I think he should be ahead of O'Shea, Wilson, Clark or Delaney when they are playing Premier League football? No.

His performance against Portugal was the worst I have seen of an Irish CB in a long time. Before that, I thought his performances against Costa Rica & Serbia were cause for concern.

You could argue e.g. O'Dea had a rotter against Germany or the defence had a nightmare against Spain but O'Dea has been relatively faultless apart from that and there were mitigating circumstances for those results.

And I am not having any of this "Portugal are a great team" and "They will be one of the favorites for the World Cup" crap I heard after the match from one or two players. Excuse me but Portugal are a middlin' team that regularly struggle through qualifying campaigns and struggle to score against teams like Liechtenstein and Luxembourg.
They struggle so badly, the last tournament they didn't qualify for was France '98

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I know, but in a modern context, they do struggle. They haven't topped a qualifying campaign since 2006 and the 2014 campaign was the first campaign they qualified for in relative comfort since 2006 - the 3rd placed team was Israel, who haven't qualified for a tournament since 1970.

They are not a Germany or Holland who storm through qualification groups. They have had several extremely embarrassing results in recent years so I don't think a 1-5 loss should be excused because of their pedigree.

[DeLorean]

I don't think anybody here thinks Keogh should be ahead of O'Shea, Wilson, Delaney or Clark...and he's not in front of the first two. We only know he was ahead of Clark when he wasn't playing at Villa which is understandable. The Delaney thing remains and probably will remain a mystery.

[jbyrne]

article on the man responsible for the thorough opponent watch. leaving his post...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/ireland-video-analyst-brian-mccarthy-departs-after-15-years-of-service-1.2073037

[ArdeeBhoy]

Keogh is another Ward, tries but not good enough...

[DeLorean]

Scotland v England proved (or strongly suggrsted) to me tonight that Scotland can cope with spade loads of huff and puff but are shown up by a bit of patience and quality.

I came across this interview with Grant Hanley (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/535884/Grant-Hanley-snubs-red-card-pleas-for-Irish-after-his-own-let-off) while looking for something else. I couldn't help but feel slightly depressed when it was put down in black and white how they (quite rightly) see us. I really hope the Lansdowne Martin is a bit more expansive than Martin abroad. It's not that I have a major problem with direct football, if it's our best way of getting a result, I just don't think that it is anymore, and certainly not against the likes of Scotland.

This is a really long gap between internationals. A February friendly, as tame as it would be, would have been useful to keep us (the supporters) ticking over.

[CraftyToePoke]

Gibraltar manager Bula is sacked, after an internal investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31694453

[zero]

Gibraltar manager Bula is sacked, after an internal investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31694453

did they find out that the team is hopeless?

[SkStu]

Gibraltar manager Bula is sacked, after an internal investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31694453


did they find out that the team is hopeless?

I heard they found coke.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003481875/2055328741_350x494px_LL_d2def7d4_cavity_search_glo ved_hand_xlarge.jpeg

[nigel-harps1954]

I heard they found coke.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003481875/2055328741_350x494px_LL_d2def7d4_cavity_search_glo ved_hand_xlarge.jpeg


Put their Pepsi sponsorship in jeopardy.

[DannyInvincible]

Scotland play NI in a friendly tonight, whilst Germany play Australia.

[DeLorean]

Polish View: Lewandowski’s Kuba Misfire Crisis (http://pogmogoal.com/republic-of-ireland/polish-view-lewandowskis-kuba-misfire-crisis/21055/)

[DannyInvincible]

Germany and Australia drew 2-2. Germany went ahead through Reus on 17 minutes before Podolski had to score an 81st-minute equaliser to bring them back level after having gone 2-1 down.

Scotland beat NI 1-0. Berra got the 85th-minute winner in Hampden.

Georgia also played Malta and beat them 2-0 with two goals late on.

[DeLorean]

Republic of Ireland v Poland: The Opposition (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2015/0326/689822-ireland-v-poland-the-opposition/)

[Stuttgart88]

There is a distinct lack of ridicule-able names there. Very disappointing. A highlight of international week for me is taking the mickey out of foreign surnames. Armenia and Cyprus (Owls Fan?) were stand outs.

[Closed Account]

Gibraltar equalise.....

[SkStu]

And the Gibbies do what we couldn't...

Oh how I howled. :)

[geysir]

Georgia v Germany game is live on ITV 4

34 mins gone still 0-0.

0-1
39 mins, Reuss scores, ball bobbed around the box and landed on his foot, he struck it well though.

0-2 now. I didn't see it, just noticed the scoreline, I am thoroughly bored by this game and will no longer be commenting on it.

[Crosby87]

Bad week for you Geysir after that one direction thing. What are you going to do with all those posters on your bedroom ceiling?

[zero]

looks like there's a good chance georgia v scotland will be played behind closed doors which is surely to the away team's advantage.

we might also be in a spot of bother for getting 5 bookings in the poland game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32143782

[Stuttgart88]

I thought the 5 yellows might have some implication alright.

[DannyInvincible]

What's the possible punishment? A fine or something on-field?

[DeLorean]

Daily Record: Gordon Strachan: I'd never rule Charlie Adam out of the team..he definitely has a goal in him (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/gordon-strachan-id-never-rule-5795872)

[jbyrne]

Germany 1 usa 2 in a friendly last night

[paul_oshea]

USA also beat Holland as well.

[Stuttgart88]

Also and as well? That's doubly impressive.

[BonnieShels]

Also and as well? That's doubly impressive.

You've over-exaggerated the impressiveness of that.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

So if Germany can beat Poland (h) and Scotland (a) it is still in our hands?

You see the problem I have with this is that Germany are not indomitable. While we were wetting ourselves because we scraped by with a 90 minute equaliser, Poland have already proven capable of what is beating a beatable team and Scotland are very capable of taking 1 or 3 points off a team of that standard.

I don't think Germany will win both games, and even if they do, we are simply incapable of winning against a team of a standard higher than Macedonia or Georgia. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't win again against a team of that standard again in my lifetime. Sounds funny but in theory..........

I would gladly take being ahead of Scotland after the Gibraltar & Georgia games though. Even if progression to the playoffs would depend on us winning with the stakes THAT high in Dublin or Warsaw.

[Stuttgart88]

Ah come on now. Getting a late equaliser in Germany WAS a big thing. Don't be so churlish. Poland got lucky, Germany battered them. Scotland had a good spell in Dortmund too, but Germany battered them for the best part of the game. It's a bit like the CL final. Barcelona could have been out of sight after 20 minutes but having not put the game to bed Juventus then scored and had a good spell.

I said at HT yesterday we don't have the experience of winning these tight games. We threw away leads at home to Scotland, Sweden, Austria. Under Trap we did the same against Itaky and Bulgaria. You'd think that sheer luck ought to turn one or two of them into wins but we can't rely on luck.

[DannyInvincible]

Scotland are very capable of taking 1 or 3 points off a team of that standard.

Are they really? Scotland took no points off Germany in their last meeting. For what reason do you see them potentially winning three points next time? Why would Scotland be any more capable of taking points off them than we would be considering we're fairly evenly matched, we actually got a point last time and they are, as you say not indomitable? Why do you give undue credit to Scotland (despite their loss) but dismiss our hard-grafted point as a case of just having scraped through?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Well since we beat Holland; Scotland have beaten us (2016), Croatia x 2 (2014), France x 2, Ukraine (2008), Norway, Slovenia (2006) and Holland in (2004).

We have beaten Slovakia.

Scotland have 9 wins against direct rivals for qualification as opposed to our 1 win.

I haven't even included wins over Lithuania & Iceland in those lean years and it's debatable we would even beat them. In fairness I think they are closer in standard to teams like Macedonia, Georgia & Armenia.

I would fancy Scotland over Ireland all day if one of those teams had to take 3 points off Germany.

I think Scotland's performance against Germany (a) was similar to ours. We had the rub of the green then. They didn't. What goes around comes around though. We got enough bail outs in the 90th minute. What matters is what happens in the preceding 89 minutes, but we have proven time and time again that we cannot win a game against decent opposition and we cannot close out a game. All we can do, because of our lack of fortitude, is chase a game when we have nothing to lose and go for broke.

It's all well and good playing a certain way for twenty minutes but why can't it be maintained over 90 minutes? That's what Ireland need to do.

[ArdeeBhoy]

To be honest we got lucky in Germany...
And in general we've been pretty mediocre in every game, bar the Colonial Theme Park(Med.version)...

[paul_oshea]

I was looking there Scotland could have a very difficult play off.in fact the teams in the playoffs look a lot harder than lots in 2nd!it will probably right itself.

I am putting it out there now. We will not make a play-off or second. you can call me out on this later but it is not going to happen. Scotland will do more than us as was my fear at the start of the campaign.

and I don't think our group is that tough either, I don't buy that. lots of average teams in average groups doing well. GERMANY are showing to be still going through post world cup lack of motivation and Scotland and Poland are very average. showed in the euros and England dispatched of them.handily enough last campaign.

[paul_oshea]

The funny thing is after all this is finished we will probably have had one bad result which is the away loss. but we are just totally incapable of beating average teams. I think in that respect, draws and respectable results, we must be one of the most consistent in Europe.

[Stuttgart88]

Wow Paul, that's a bold prediction even by your standards. :)

I think it's a tough group but not necessarily the toughest. I think we all knew when the draw was made we needed to do something we haven't done for over a decade, get 4 points from a close peer.

[paul_oshea]

Im that confident of being correct ill do a paddy ashdown, and give you something to choose I do in the event I am wrong, which I wont be hence I'm giving you that :)

[Stuttgart88]

I saw Scotland on Saturday. They were muck.

I watched England yesterday. Inventive football and an exciting game. When they played us, drivel. When Scotland played Poland and Germany, they played with a bit if swagger. When they played us, drivel.

Are we the footballing equivalent of a Black Hole?

[DannyInvincible]

Well since we beat Holland; Scotland have beaten us (2016), Croatia x 2 (2014), France x 2, Ukraine (2008), Norway, Slovenia (2006) and Holland in (2004).

Whatever about what Scotland might have done eight or nine years ago, they're really not in any way superior to ourselves at present, as Saturday's game demonstrated. The fact remains we're the team with 1 point off Germany to Scotland's 0.


I think Scotland's performance against Germany (a) was similar to ours. We had the rub of the green then. They didn't. What goes around comes around though. We got enough bail outs in the 90th minute. What matters is what happens in the preceding 89 minutes, but we have proven time and time again that we cannot win a game against decent opposition and we cannot close out a game. All we can do, because of our lack of fortitude, is chase a game when we have nothing to lose and go for broke.

It's all well and good playing a certain way for twenty minutes but why can't it be maintained over 90 minutes? That's what Ireland need to do.

Football matches last 90 minutes plus stoppage time. I'm not sure why you would wish to discard the final minute plus stoppage time when the game is about playing right up until the final whistle. A lot of teams don't have the discipline and motivation to do that, but we have shown in this group that we do; we've scored against Georgia, Germany and Poland during this period of time in games. That's not a "rub of the green". It's not necessarily the cutting edge that we really need either, but what it is is admirable persistence. We fought hard for that point in Germany. We defended well and took our chance brilliantly when it arrived. The goal against Poland came after a half of concerted pressure.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Scotland can normally win one or two, maybe even three games, in a qualifying campaign against teams they are in direct competition with.

It takes Ireland on average four or five matches against these teams simply to get three points. Draw, draw, loss, loss, draw etc...

Ireland have won one game against a team of any kind of standard over the last 15 years of competition. I wouldn't be surprised if we win one more over the next 15. It's utterly depressing.

Scotland would be more likely to beat Poland & Germany than Ireland. Maybe they would be more likely to slip up against Georgia. At this juncture though with the way things are going....

Scotland perform better against bigger teams and do a better job at keeping them at arms length over a sustained period of time.

It's all well and good Ireland coming back from a losing position and performing better for 15-20 minutes when the opposing team steps off and allows them to have the impetus but you need to sustain this over a game. It's not economical to do things the way Ireland does them. If the Germany game in Berlin lasted just ten minutes longer they would have went back in front; Poland too, in Dublin. Then we remain completely incapable, and have been for the longest time, of holding on to a lead. We clearly don't know what to do when we have it. In Dublin at the weekend it's almost like we subconsciously wanted Scotland to draw level. They had the freedom of the middle of the park and nobody was doing the most elementary things like staying close to your man and closing out space.

And if someone brings up Paris as an Ireland win one more time, just one more time! That was a two-legged tie. We were drawing the tie. We were not winning. This is why it went to extra-time and they won the tie.

So Stan has that over Kerr, Trapattoni and O'Neill. We actually beat a direct opponent and remained competitive against strong(ish) teams like Germany, Czech Republic and Wales. MON looks like he is going to be as big a failure.