A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[Dodge]

You could say the same about LoI fans too.

Oh I do, absolutely. And you can broaden that out to football fans.

Basically anyone who invests time, money and their heart and soul into watching a sport is a complete and utter fruitcake

My kinda people

But even within those fruitcakes, the message board users are pretty extreme

[galwayhoop]

Why should they approach the FAI with anything ?
Its the FAI who run our football in this country not the clubs & its FAI's job to come up with the plan.
BUT the plan must be inclusive & include everyone.
The fact that Rovers or any other club approached the FAI should have nothing to do with it.
If the FAI thought the idea had merit, then they should have run with it & expanded the idea to include all Premier clubs.
Instead we have this secrecy behind closed doors discussion with a club which once it got out was bound to cause anger among other clubs & their fans.

I'm asked a question to which I've not yet received an answer.
"Why all the secrecy ?"

Maybe one of our brave investigative reporters :sleepy:can find an answer to the question because the FAI have remained very silent on the matter despite requests for information.

Why not come straight out & give every Premier club the option to enter a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division ?
Then if one or two take it up,no problem as they were all given the same opportunity.
The whole situation just has a very bad smell to it.

Your username is more than apt.

Riddle me this, which other team would have put a reserve team in the first division? And more to the point which other club could afford to.

I think you will find none. Storm in a teacup.

[Mister X]

When are the fixtures usually released

[legendz]

Most premier clubs wanted the A championship scrapped. A few first division clubs were progressive enough to field an A team when there was no requirement in them to do so. An opportunity has opened for rovers, one they sought 2 years ago. They're dead right to push it through. Lesson for other clubs is to lobby if they want something.

[disgruntled]

Your username is more than apt.

Riddle me this, which other team would have put a reserve team in the first division? And more to the point which other club could afford to.

I think you will find none. Storm in a teacup.


Were they given the option ? NO

Your kind of thinking is the very reason why we keep having these discussions on a regular basis.
Make decisions for your own club & let the other clubs decide for themselves.

I also notice you didn't answer my question :rolleyes:


"Why all the secrecy ?"
Why not ask all the Premier Div clubs & let them decide for themselves ?

[Fivesilver]

I don't think the perception of this has been helped by the newspaper article that reads like a laundry list of rules the FAO is considering waiving to facilitate Shams.

[pineapple stu]

When are the fixtures usually released
Feb-ish.

But I think it's been quite variable.

[nigel-harps1954]

Mid-January last year if I remember rightly.

[culloty82]

Most of the fixture delays in previous seasons were down to worries over licensing, but given that every club appears viable, they'll probably be out first thing in the New Year.

[galwayhoop]

I also notice you didn't answer my question :rolleyes:


"Why all the secrecy ?"
Why not ask all the Premier Div clubs & let them decide for themselves ?
No point in asking when there are no other viable clubs who have shown an interest previously. I'm sure they are not being excluded from applying if they so choose.


Now to move away from your hypothetical grievance can you come up with a club who would be capable of fielding a second team in the first division and interested in doing so?

Doubt it.

In the meantime continue your moral crusade if you wish. Enjoy your negative pointless argument about not being invited to something the other clubs couldn't and wouldn't want to do in the first place.

I've spent enough time on this point - I was always told there is no point trying to teach someone who hasn't the capacity to learn.


Back on topic......

8 teams good. Reserve teams? Time will tell - hopefully the rules don't interfere with the 'sporting integrity' of the division.

[redobit]

No point in asking when there are no other viable clubs who have shown an interest previously. I'm sure they are not being excluded from applying if they so choose.



you mean like ye were for the last two seasons!!!

[Ezeikial]

No point in asking when there are no other viable clubs who have shown an interest previously. I'm sure they are not being excluded from applying if they so choose.


Now to move away from your hypothetical grievance can you come up with a club who would be capable of fielding a second team in the first division and interested in doing so?

Doubt it.

In the meantime continue your moral crusade if you wish. Enjoy your negative pointless argument about not being invited to something the other clubs couldn't and wouldn't want to do in the first place.

I've spent enough time on this point - I was always told there is no point trying to teach someone who hasn't the capacity to learn.


Back on topic......

8 teams good. Reserve teams? Time will tell - hopefully the rules don't interfere with the 'sporting integrity' of the division.

wow

You seem to have completely missed the point he was making

[osarusan]

Enjoy your negative pointless argument about not being invited to something the other clubs couldn't and wouldn't want to do in the first place.

I didn't invite you to the party because I was sure you wouldn't want to go.

Not really the rationale the FAI should be using, in my opinion. Let the clubs decide for themselves if they want to apply or not.*

*I understand that they can apply if they want, but it could have been handled differently and better.

i just wonder if the FAI are only looking for 1 reserve team, and not any more, so haven't gone about it more openly.

[Charlie Darwin]

i just wonder if the FAI are only looking for 1 reserve team, and not any more, so haven't gone about it more openly.
I think they if they let in more than one, it would have to be three. Tralee aren't anywhere close to entering a team and the 11-team seasons in 2011 and 2012 showed what a disaster uneven numbers are.

However, I think the FAI are right to put the onus on the prospective entrant to do the heavy lifting before they make an application. Rovers had a business plan two years ago and were knocked back, but this time around the FAI approached them because they knew they had legitimate ideas and plans for how to make a B team viable. As far as I can see, no other club has such a plan in place, and if they had they'd have made an application before the deadline.

[galwayhoop]

you mean like ye were for the last two seasons!!!

GUST isn't Galway United.


Just so you know like.

[galwayhoop]

I think they if they let in more than one, it would have to be three. Tralee aren't anywhere close to entering a team and the 11-team seasons in 2011 and 2012 showed what a disaster uneven numbers are.

However, I think the FAI are right to put the onus on the prospective entrant to do the heavy lifting before they make an application. Rovers had a business plan two years ago and were knocked back, but this time around the FAI approached them because they knew they had legitimate ideas and plans for how to make a B team viable. As far as I can see, no other club has such a plan in place, and if they had they'd have made an application before the deadline.

This is what I'm getting at.

Ok, so maybe the FAI should have contacted each club to be "totally impartial" but lets try have our argument in reality...
a. there was a single spot available.
b. they knew of a club who wanted to enter a second team and
c. this club had a viable plan (i.e. they could afford it).

It's a no brainer.

Why throw open the invite only to knock back the clubs who may try apply.

For all the pinko keyboard warriors on here I'm still to see a poster name a club who might have even been partially interested or capable in entering a second team.

[galwayhoop]

I didn't invite you to the party because I was sure you wouldn't want to go.

Not really the rationale the FAI should be using, in my opinion.

More like I didn't invite you to the party because your wife keeps ringing mine to tell her you keep drinking all the money and she has to go the SVP to clothe the kids.

[bennocelt]

For all the pinko keyboard warriors on here I'm still to see a poster name a club who might have even been partially interested or capable in entering a second team.

A lot of teams are capable if given the required help and encouragement from the FAI. Jesus, we are not talking about inventing the wheel, just good governance from top down.:rolleyes:

[galwayhoop]

'Capable' from a financial perspective. You are talking the guts of €200k minimum added to whatever existing budget the clubs have. Budgets all bar a couple of clubs are struggling to meet.

Look, it would be great if all clubs had full on academy's, reserve sides and all seater stadia. Problem is the lack of resources.

There has been a full division worth of clubs drop out of senior football in the past decade ffs. Most struggle to keep going at all. Do you really think they want the burden of a second string team?

Fwiw I don't think Rovers will have this second team for more than a couple of seasons if even that long. The league is full of players on short term contracts. The benefit of farming them out to a second string team to allow them develop versus the cost of having said team is seriously debatable. Just as easy release them and resign them later if they become good enough - particularly as there isn't the problem of large transfer fees in our league.

[Dodge]

'Capable' from a financial perspective. You are talking the guts of €200k minimum added to whatever existing budget the clubs have. Budgets all bar a couple of clubs are struggling to meet.

Rovers have said their budget will be 80k




i just wonder if the FAI are only looking for 1 reserve team, and not any more, so haven't gone about it more openly.
That's clearly what has happened. The FAI are/were desperate for one more club to make 8 in the FD. They'd prefera new application but clearly none were forthcoming. (The advertised earlier in the year etc).

Rovers contacted the FAI about the reserve team a couple of years ago so the FAI, clearly in a bind and needing a team quickly, approached Rovers to see if they were still interested.

[disgruntled]

No point in asking when there are no other viable clubs who have shown an interest previously. I'm sure they are not being excluded from applying if they so choose.


Now to move away from your hypothetical grievance can you come up with a club who would be capable of fielding a second team in the first division and interested in doing so?

Doubt it.

In the meantime continue your moral crusade if you wish. Enjoy your negative pointless argument about not being invited to something the other clubs couldn't and wouldn't want to do in the first place.

I've spent enough time on this point - I was always told there is no point trying to teach someone who hasn't the capacity to learn.


Back on topic......

8 teams good. Reserve teams? Time will tell - hopefully the rules don't interfere with the 'sporting integrity' of the division.

I've spent enough time on this point - I was always told there is no point trying to teach someone who hasn't the capacity to learn.


Just like Galway & countless other League of Ireland clubs have learned over the years :o
Thanks for answering the questions. I suppose I shouldn't have expected anything less.
Why don't you just admit it?
You're just winging it.
Bluff will only get you so far.Eventually you get called on it.

'sporting integrity' of the division"
What a load of old bull. You speak like an FAI official or a politician who knows about as much about integrity as a government minister.

I wish Galway the best for the coming season but I hope they have a better idea of what’s involved than you, otherwise they'll soon be pleading for help again
As a matter of interest where did you get the figure of €200k from or is that another question you're not prepared to answer?

[galwayhoop]

I've spent enough time on this point - I was always told there is no point trying to teach someone who hasn't the capacity to learn.


Just like Galway & countless other League of Ireland clubs have learned over the years :o
Thanks for answering the questions. I suppose I shouldn't have expected anything less.
Why don't you just admit it?
You're just winging it.
Bluff will only get you so far.Eventually you get called on it.



Have I not answered your question countless times??? There are no other interested clubs. None who who could afford it anyway. One was picked who could and was interested. Nothing like a Cork man for the persecution complex though I suppose.

Can you answer my question? Name a club other than Rovers who is interested????????????????

Seriously, just one. Go on. Please. For Christmas???

[galwayhoop]

As for the €200k, on GUST's forum there was a projected figure of €180k for all part-time players on expenses. I think the quote was it cost €180k to finish bottom of the division. I added on €20k for higher wages and more travel (i.e. there were going to be 3 Galway teams if successful).

As for Rovers €80k?? Pfff. They do realise the league entry cost, geographical spread of the division (ie travel costs) - there isn't too many Dublin trips. Twice the players, coaches and training costs. Negligible attendance income (do they pay rent when they use Tallaght??) and small if any sponsorship.

Give it a year or two max and they will drop out. There won't be a que of other clubs either - despite the musings of some on here.

[galwayhoop]

'sporting integrity' of the division"
What a load of old bull. You speak like an FAI official or a politician who knows about as much about integrity as a government minister.


The reason for the quotation marks was to signify they are not the original words of the author.

The phrase was used to imply the hope that the FAI are keeping the integrity of the division intact by providing correct rules and restrictions for the 'B' team - re: player registration and movement particularly. They (and other sporting bodies) often refer to 'sporting integrity' when reprimanding participants. It was a subtle use of the phrase to avoid a long winded explaination....

but sure if I have to explain it.....

[Bawnville Hoop]

As for the €200k, on GUST's forum there was a projected figure of €180k for all part-time players on expenses. I think the quote was it cost €180k to finish bottom of the division. I added on €20k for higher wages and more travel (i.e. there were going to be 3 Galway teams if successful).

As for Rovers €80k?? Pfff. They do realise the league entry cost, geographical spread of the division (ie travel costs) - there isn't too many Dublin trips. Twice the players, coaches and training costs. Negligible attendance income (do they pay rent when they use Tallaght??) and small if any sponsorship.

Give it a year or two max and they will drop out. There won't be a que of other clubs either - despite the musings of some on here.

League entry cost if any for us would be in that 80k. As for travel, we only have 12 trips outside Dublin.

How is it twice the players? The majority of our Under 19's + 3-4 Senior players are there already.

As for coaches and training costs Shane Robinson and Colin Hawkins already have the rolls there and I'm sure the rest of the Under 19 coaching staff will make it up. As for training costs again the Under 19's current setup is perfect.

The games are free in for ST holders after that even 200 paying 10 euro on average would go a long way. The 2 games home to Shelbourne will no doubt attract a crowd near to 1000 I will imagine.

I think our current sponsorship well covers both teams with the papers reporting it to be in the region of 750k over 3 years.

Plan is to have a team of young players to develop correctly for the first team, compensation costs do not come cheap if they are sold at 19/20 being at the club for so many years so that in itself could cover the costs.

[Sam_Heggy]

Is this the perfect topic (seeing as the dumbass thread is gone) to illustrate Dodge's point that most, if not all, League of Ireland message board user are completely bonkers?

[Dodge]

I think our current sponsorship well covers both teams with the papers reporting it to be in the region of 750k over 3 years.


It's 220k, rising to close ot double that based on incentives. Even with the warrior cash, it's not close to 750k over 3 years

[galwayhoop]

Is this the perfect topic (seeing as the dumbass thread is gone) to illustrate Dodge's point that most, if not all, League of Ireland message board user are completely bonkers?

In a word, yes.

[tips hat and disappears into the distance]

[Charlie Darwin]

Shamrock Rovers' media puppets in the Indo have confirmed there will be a B team in next year's First Division, with a side also competing at U19 level: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/green-light-for-hoops-secondtier-side-29854424.html

Can you smell the favouritism? It's disgusting.

[bluewhitearmy]

Shamrock Rovers' media puppets in the Indo have confirmed there will be a B team in next year's First Division, with a side also competing at U19 level: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/green-light-for-hoops-secondtier-side-29854424.html

Can you smell the favouritism? It's disgusting.

Suppose your 19s will be allowed to play home games and all? Typical all to suit ye.

[Charlie Darwin]

Suppose your 19s will be allowed to play home games and all? Typical all to suit ye.
Assuming the Sunday games is due to the fact the U19s play on Saturdays. Could be a bit of a strain on the Tallaght surface, having 1.5 league games a week for most of the season.

[bluewhitearmy]

Assuming the Sunday games is due to the fact the U19s play on Saturdays. Could be a bit of a strain on the Tallaght surface, having 1.5 league games a week for most of the season.

That will be a strain squad wise too with the 19s playing the day before. Best of the 19s solely play for the B team maybe.

[Charlie Darwin]

That will be a strain squad wise too with the 19s playing the day before. Best of the 19s solely play for the B team maybe.
The plan seems to be to recruit aggressively at U19 level with the carrot of a move to FD level and then the first team, instead of the system we have now where there's a gulf between U19s and the senior team, and the best U19s have to be sent to Longford.

[Longfordian]

The plan seems to be to recruit aggressively at U19 level with the carrot of a move to FD level and then the first team, instead of the system we have now where there's a gulf between U19s and the senior team, and the best U19s have to be sent to Longford.

The Coventry of the LOI.

[disgruntled]

Have I not answered your question countless times??? There are no other interested clubs. None who who could afford it anyway. One was picked who could and was interested. Nothing like a Cork man for the persecution complex though I suppose.

Can you answer my question? Name a club other than Rovers who is interested????????????????

Seriously, just one. Go on. Please. For Christmas???

You still don't get it, do you ?
I'm talking about being ASKED in the first place.
I can think of four clubs who would be capable of fielding a second team.
Rovers, Cork City. Sligo & Pats.
Whether they would be interested or not is not my point.
My point is that three of those four were never given the option, were they ?

Oh & Merry Christmas to you.

[disgruntled]

As for the €200k, on GUST's forum there was a projected figure of €180k for all part-time players on expenses. I think the quote was it cost €180k to finish bottom of the division. I added on €20k for higher wages and more travel (i.e. there were going to be 3 Galway teams if successful).

As for Rovers €80k?? Pfff. They do realise the league entry cost, geographical spread of the division (ie travel costs) - there isn't too many Dublin trips. Twice the players, coaches and training costs. Negligible attendance income (do they pay rent when they use Tallaght??) and small if any sponsorship.

Give it a year or two max and they will drop out. There won't be a que of other clubs either - despite the musings of some on here.

Those figures are for a complete club.
We're talking about an extra team here where the club structures are already in place.

"Give it a year or two max and they will drop out"
Does that include Galway ?

[disgruntled]

Shamrock Rovers' media puppets in the Indo have confirmed there will be a B team in next year's First Division, with a side also competing at U19 level: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/green-light-for-hoops-secondtier-side-29854424.html

Can you smell the favouritism? It's disgusting.

That report is a bit short on detail.
A bit thin on specifics, fees, number of players etc.
I would be nice to hear a bit more of the detail.

[Nesta99]

Could be a bit of a strain on the Tallaght surface, having 1.5 league games a week for most of the season.

Slightly fire damaged all singing all dancing second hand carpet about the size of SDCC Municipal Stadium available cheap - solves all issues with pitch wear and tear with no maintenance costs at all. Contact previous owner of Dundalk FC for further details. Assured to be a very popular playing surface and will endear all football fanatics with its realistic underfoot response and grass like ball bounce and run. Low running costs, this slightly charred surface is guaranteed as a money saver to offset the cost of all U19,Reserve, and Senior participation fees. Buy now and get a free option on favoritism from national and European governing bodies!

yes i am bored.......

[atfconline]

FAI Press Release


Shamrock Rovers to field second team in 2014 Airtricity League First Division

The Football Association of Ireland has agreed to allow Airtricity League Premier Division club Shamrock Rovers field a second team in the 2014 First Division.

Following the decision of Mervue United and Salthill Devon to withdraw from the First Division in favour of a new Galway entity, the FAI sought expressions of interest and received several applications, all of which received due consideration.

The decision to allow Shamrock Rovers enter a second team follows a period of discussion between the Association and the club to iron out the obvious issues that occur when a club has teams in the Premier and First Divisions.

The parameters which will apply to Shamrock Rovers include:
· The First Division team will not be eligible for promotion or the play-offs.
· Shamrock Rovers will play the full First Division affiliation fee.
· The First Division team will not be allowed to enter the EA SPORTS Cup or the FAI Ford Cup.
· Disciplinary sanctions imposed on Shamrock Rovers players will apply to both teams.
· From their Premier Division squad, Shamrock Rovers will be permitted to play a maximum of three outfield players and a goalkeeper in First Division fixtures.

Fran Gavin, Director of the Airtricity League stated: “This is the first time that we have allowed a club to field a second team in a lower division of the League. However, it is not unusual in a European context as this is the norm in countries such Spain, Germany, France, Norway, Holland, Switzerland and Portugal. It was an idea that came from the club and once they embraced the parameters we required them to operate within we approved the application.”

Subject to all clubs receiving licences, the 2014 First Division will consist of the following eight clubs: Cobh Ramblers, Finn Harps, Galway, Longford Town, Shamrock Rovers, Shelbourne, Waterford United and Wexford Youths.

Shamrock Rovers will continue to field a team in the Airtricity U19 League.

ENDS

[bennocelt]

Wonder what other teams expressed interest, more likely a lie

[Patrick Dunne]

The major objection I would have is that players are now effectively registered for two teams playing in the same league. Eamonn Zayed/Karl Shepherd can play against Cobh Ramblers and Cork City on the same weekend (unlikely, I know).

There should have been a separate squad for both sides.

[Dodge]

So what were people's problems with it again

a) "They won't have to pay fees" - they do.
b) "They won't need u19 team" - they do
c) "They'll be allowed move players between the two" - Yeah, they do.

For me c was the only issue I thought the league would move on and they did. Shame

[Bawnville Hoop]

Finally confirmed, great news for us.

[Louth4sam]

So what were people's problems with it again

a) "They won't have to pay fees" - they do.
b) "They won't need u19 team" - they do
c) "They'll be allowed move players between the two" - Yeah, they do.

For me c was the only issue I thought the league would move on and they did. Shame

Agree with this and in my opinion fees should have been waived. However there is no doubt that Rovers will have an advantage over other teams in the premier division as their fringe players will be match fit and can get around this rule "From their Premier Division squad, Shamrock Rovers will be permitted to play a maximum of three outfield players and a goalkeeper in First Division fixtures." by having a smaller premier division squad and registering players with their first division squad instead.

Crucially, what if a couple of players say Zayed and Finn were coming back from injury and played against a team challenging for promotion. They will be at a serious disadvantage to their rivals.

I'm all for teams having reserve teams as the jump from u19s to senior is too big for some players but they need to be separate entities to their parent club.

[gormacha]

Crucially, what if a couple of players say Zayed and Finn were coming back from injury and played against a team challenging for promotion. They will be at a serious disadvantage to their rivals.

Couldn't agree more. This is the exact point I made when this idea was first mooted.

The logic behind a B team is different to every other team in both divisions - its about player development, not winning per se. So Shamrock Rovers will vary their B team according to their developmental needs. Some weeks they will play with elite players, others they won't. This will have a direct and uneven impact on first division results.

[placid casual]

Even more reason for your clubs to get their act together and get the hell out of the graveyard division as quick as possible, thus avoiding future meetings with the rule- bending big bad Rovers.:rolleyes:

fair play to the Rovers board on this. still streets ahead of the other clubs off the field(on the field is entirely another matter!):love:

[SkStu]

The Coventry of the LOI.

To Hell (First Division) or to Longford!

[micls]

I completely disagree with players being registered for both squads. They should work within squads outside of the transfer window. Don't have much issue with it other than this.

[RonnieB]

I completely disagree with players being registered for both squads. They should work within squads outside of the transfer window. Don't have much issue with it other than this.

Pretty much of the same opinion myself.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd prefer the way it is in Spain (to the best of my knowledge anyway). Players can move within the transfer window, but anybody under 20 can go up or down at will.