A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[NeverFeltBetter]

I doubt the FAI will be so thick as to allow Rovers to swap players at will.

Hope. Hope the FAI will not be so thick.

[Mr A]

Where other clubs offered the same opportunity as Rovers to do this I wonder?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Some probably were, but must have balked at the cost and the necessity of dumping the U-19 structure.

[Ezeikial]

Some probably were, but must have balked at the cost and the necessity of dumping the U-19 structure.

Presume this is guesswork - have you any basis for this?

"Some" would be unacceptable. Offer to all or none.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'm just making a reasonable assumption that the FAI approached more clubs than just Shamrock Rovers, but they were the only club in the financial position to undertake this initiative (if all of this is true). I would make a similar reasonable assumption and say they probably didn't bother approaching every team in the top tier.

[placid casual]

The day I come back there's a Rovers story for the hand wringing brigade to get themselves worked up over!
plus ca change.

If it ever comes to fruition I think its a great benefit to Rovers

[citybone]

From what i gather Cork City were denied this offer, we tried to field a reserve team in the Munster senior leagues but were not allowed. We can loan players out to Cobh but it would have been nice to keep them in our structure rather than loaning them to another club.

[brendy_éire]

I think it would make sense for all clubs to go for it. Ditch the U19 side, enter it into the First. Slightly increased travel costs, which for us would be offset by gate receipts from the Harps match.
I can only assume this option wasn't open to us and other clubs.

[Sheridan]

Storm in a teacup if you ask me. Rovers are doing the league a favour by padding the First Division to a slightly less embarrassing number of teams. It's still going to be a pointless burden to them, but probably to a slighter lesser extent than most other clubs.

[Macy]

If there was no other teams willing to come in what could they have done other then leave it at 7?
Not insisted on merging mervue and salthill? Allowed GUST in the several times they tried. We'd be having a moan about a 9 team first. That's before we even get into the lack of support given to teams that dropped out. FAI deserve no credit - the problem is entirely of their making, and this is their solution. It beggars belief!

[Sam_Heggy]

Meh! Past giving a sh!t anymore.

So long as we get out of the feckin division I don't care who we leave behind/have to the play to get there.

[Martinho II]

yes but if i remeber from my time in the it down there a good few of the lads on the course has contracts with other loi teams

aint Gary Shaw on that course??

[adamd164]

From what i gather Cork City were denied this offer, we tried to field a reserve team in the Munster senior leagues but were not allowed. We can loan players out to Cobh but it would have been nice to keep them in our structure rather than loaning them to another club.
The Munster Senior League is totally different, we would have approached the MFA about that.

Open to correction, but I highly doubt we'd be willing to field a second team in the first division given the cost already of travel to premier division teams.

[bluemovie]

If there was no other teams willing to come in what could they have done other then leave it at 7?

Termonbarry City?

http://foot.ie/threads/147324-New-Club

[ForzaForth]

My first reaction is that I can't see this lasting too long. If the remaining clubs in the First Division choose to play their home matches on the same night as Shamrock Rovers' first team (the obvious choice, I would think), that means that every second weekend, Rovers have to get out two different squads on the same night without any possibility of doubling up. With injuries and suspensions, that's some ask. You'd probably want five keepers signed, in order to have to have a reserve keeper at each match, for example.

[gufc2000]

My first reaction is that I can't see this lasting too long. If the remaining clubs in the First Division choose to play their home matches on the same night as Shamrock Rovers' first team (the obvious choice, I would think), that means that every second weekend, Rovers have to get out two different squads on the same night without any possibility of doubling up. With injuries and suspensions, that's some ask. You'd probably want five keepers signed, in order to have to have a reserve keeper at each match, for example.
That's actually a very valid point, one I hadn't thought about. Most teams bar Longford tend to play their home games on Saturday nights. Are the FAI going to insist that the First Division clubs move their home games now to Saturday nights so that Shamrock Rovers can be accommodated when their first team is playing on a Friday?

This could be the death knell of the First Division. Subsidising it with reserve teams from now on could make up the numbers if more teams start falling by the wayside

[bluewhitearmy]

That's actually a very valid point, one I hadn't thought about. Most teams bar Longford tend to play their home games on Saturday nights. Are the FAI going to insist that the First Division clubs move their home games now to Saturday nights so that Shamrock Rovers can be accommodated when their first team is playing on a Friday?

This could be the death knell of the First Division. Subsidising it with reserve teams from now on could make up the numbers if more teams start falling by the wayside


My first reaction is that I can't see this lasting too long. If the remaining clubs in the First Division choose to play their home matches on the same night as Shamrock Rovers' first team (the obvious choice, I would think), that means that every second weekend, Rovers have to get out two different squads on the same night without any possibility of doubling up. With injuries and suspensions, that's some ask. You'd probably want five keepers signed, in order to have to have a reserve keeper at each match, for example.


I doubt anyone that has played in the first team squad that week would be playing in the first division the same week anyway. Its not like for example Zayed is gonna play for the first team on the Friday and then the B team on the Saturday. They would have to have two different squads every week anyway.

[Kiki Balboa]

I am guessing it is a 'B' team and not a reserve team.

I think its actually a very good idea and would love if all the established teams were able to have a competitive 'b' team as the gap between underage and senior is too wide and there needs to be a middle ground. UCD and Sporting Fingal are/ were producing good players in a fan pressure free environment and enabled lads to development much like a 'b' team would.

However, it is only a short term fix. What happens if another club in the first folds ? Will another 'b' team replace them, then how long will it take for the division to become just a 'b' division. Even with that, can anyone see Shamrock Rovers continuing with a 'b' team in 5 years time? .

There are plenty of problems with the current league structure and the failure by the league to attract interest from another club just shows this.

[Dillonman]

Yesterday's Star newspaper suggested it was Tralee coming into the league....

[eitoof]

Yesterday's Star newspaper suggested it was Tralee coming into the league....

Must be true if The Star says it.

[Darklordsbane]

If Tralee is true I was thing to myself jasus just what we need another marathon 3.5 hour trip from Longford, but then I thought of Finn Harps 5.25 hours each way, but almost anything is better than less than 8 teams

[Macy]

I doubt anyone that has played in the first team squad that week would be playing in the first division the same week anyway. Its not like for example Zayed is gonna play for the first team on the Friday and then the B team on the Saturday. They would have to have two different squads every week anyway.
What about if Zayed was an unused sub for the first team on the Friday? No physical reason he couldn't play for the B team on the Saturday.

[Briuk]

If the choice is between 7 teams or having 8 or more by including 'B' sides then I'd be voting for 'B' sides every time.

However, as said above about the Spanish clubs, the B team should be treated as a separate club with movement only through transfers in the designated windows. Anything else is an absolute jokeshop.

In Spain the B team players can play with A, but it doesn't work on the other way.
And if a B player plays 10 games with A team it's automatically promoted and will have "A" team registration.


I reckon thats the best option.
I think the dutch added this year B squads on second division, without spanish rules and its a bit joke.

[nigel-harps1954]

If Tralee is true I was thing to myself jasus just what we need another marathon 3.5 hour trip from Longford, but then I thought of Finn Harps 5.25 hours each way, but almost anything is better than less than 8 teams


What sort of way are you travelling from Longford to Ballybofey that takes 5.25 hours each way? Going via Dublin and Belfast? Longford is our shortest trip of the year ffs.

[IrishRossi]

aint Gary Shaw on that course??

yeah i think he is

[Longfordian]

What sort of way are you travelling from Longford to Ballybofey that takes 5.25 hours each way? Going via Dublin and Belfast? Longford is our shortest trip of the year ffs.

I think he was empathising with Harps fans rather than saying it takes that long from Longford.

[nigel-harps1954]

I think he was empathising with Harps fans rather than saying it takes that long from Longford.

Good shout. Makes no difference to us really, it's just another journey.

[Darklordsbane]

Longfordian is correct, I was feeling sorry for Finn Harps fans

[A face]

Not insisted on merging mervue and salthill? Allowed GUST in the several times they tried. We'd be having a moan about a 9 team first. That's before we even get into the lack of support given to teams that dropped out. FAI deserve no credit - the problem is entirely of their making, and this is their solution. It beggars belief!

The FAI are they only group in line for the blame. They could have been fostering clubs and encouraging them to come through all along and we'd never be in this position. I think the management of the league in the last few years has been piecemeal and they got ahead of themselves when giving potential new team the brush off. If there was ambition from any club there to compete in the national league then it should have been welcomed.

Not only that, they should have been approaching the various junior leagues to see if there were any interested in the Kerry League model, encouraging clubs to make players available to play in a representative team for the county. They dragged their heals and as a result they are now in this position.

If it comes out in the wash that Rovers were the only ones offered this opportunity then i would expect everyone to be up in arms over it. If it were Pats were given the chance then Rovers of all clubs would be screaming blue murder and i'll support them in that as well. This is mismanagement, its going to back fire and its going to welcome unnecessary media attention leaving the league wide open for another negative story. The fact that its been leaked is shambolic, if this was true it should have been announced with fan-fair but it cant be because its obvious its going to be contentious. It doesn't matter if its Spanish rules, Dutch rules or Japanese rules, they scraped the A Championship which was designed to cater for the fragmented step between U19s and Senior, having scraped the U21s before that and now instead of putting it out in the open, that they were offering B-Sides option they are trying to pull a fast one (if it is actually true)

Who is the journalist who first published this story? Can we get a name?

[Ezeikial]

Who is the journalist who first published this story? Can we get a name?

The Indo article is credited to Garry Doyle
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html

[Dodge]

It doesn't matter if its Spanish rules, Dutch rules or Japanese rules, they scraped the A Championship which was designed to cater for the fragmented step between U19s and Senior, having scraped the U21s before that and now instead of putting it out in the open, that they were offering B-Sides option they are trying to pull a fast one (if it is actually true)

They didn't scrap anything. Clubs actively wanted to get rid of it, and it was the clubs who voted it out.

I've already given my opinion on these mythical clubs that exist that want to join the LOI. The last thing I'll say on it is that if they can't even pass the pathetic licensing requirements that others pass, they will never amount to anything and the league is right to refuse them. All the "fostering" in the world won't change that. The only two things any club needs to get in the LOI is willpower and money. The FAI can't create willpower.

[disgruntled]

Lets hope Gary Doyle follows up on it because we have interesting times ahead.

I would ask the following questions.

(1) Will Rovers be getting some form of financial assistance to put a team in the 1st Division?
(2) Will Rovers be allowed to pull out of the U19 league, participation in which I understand is part of the rules in receiving a licence & if so what effect will that have on the licencing applications of all the other League of Ireland clubs.
(3) Were all the other Premier Division clubs given the option to enter a team in the 1st division for the coming season?

If not leadership then we certainly need some clarity on these matters from the FAI.

[Raheen]

Works the same way in France (as in Spain) with the provisio that only club first teams can get promoted from one of the four regional CFA divisions (fourth tier) to Championnat National (third tier). Similar to our A division a few years ago I guess in some ways except its durability. Attendances are rarely much higher though!

[A face]

They didn't scrap anything. Clubs actively wanted to get rid of it, and it was the clubs who voted it out.

Dodge, are you referring to the U21 League there? I don't think its the A Championship because i remember at the time several fans contacting our club and we were told there was no such vote, or that the club wasn't asked to participate in a vote. It was treated as being a bizarre move at the time anyway. Do you have any info on this actually? When were clubs meant to have voted on this? Do you have a date?

[Mr A]

Some clubs complained bitterly about the A league and wanted it gone.

It never ceases to amaze me how many of our football clubs hate running football teams.

[Dodge]

Dodge, are you referring to the U21 League there? I don't think its the A Championship because i remember at the time several fans contacting our club and we were told there was no such vote, or that the club wasn't asked to participate in a vote.

Assuming your club is still Cork City, they weren't involved in the A Championship for the last two years so I assume that's why they didn't have a vote.

The only LOI clubs to be involved for all 4 seasons were Bohs, Bray, Cobh (3 years as first team), Drogs, Harps, Galway, Pats, Rovers, Sligo

[Sam_Heggy]

An Under 21 league with 4 overage players allowed would have been perfect.

It's funny how we had that in the past and got rid of it, now the much hailed EPL is using the same idea.

[gufc2000]

They didn't scrap anything. Clubs actively wanted to get rid of it, and it was the clubs who voted it out.

I've already given my opinion on these mythical clubs that exist that want to join the LOI. The last thing I'll say on it is that if they can't even pass the pathetic licensing requirements that others pass, they will never amount to anything and the league is right to refuse them. All the "fostering" in the world won't change that. The only two things any club needs to get in the LOI is willpower and money. The FAI can't create willpower.
If Mervue and Salthill passed those requirements there's no reason why several others shouldn't have. The FAI pick and choose when it suits them, and make up the rules as they go along

[Dodge]

If Mervue and Salthill passed those requirements there's no reason why several others shouldn't have. The FAI pick and choose when it suits them, and make up the rules as they go along

Or they tightened up after that debacle

[culloty82]

Yesterday's Star newspaper suggested it was Tralee coming into the league....

Since they returned to the KDL, they haven't lost in the league, but have been regularly beaten by Killarney Celtic and St. Brendan's Park in the cups, so one of the journos is having a slow news day.

[Dillonman]

Must be true if The Star says it.

Must be, think they reported last week that pigs could fly as well.

[adamd164]

Would be delighted to see Tralee in, Kerry and similar GAA strongholds are where we've always lacked LOI teams traditionally.

[SkStu]

Must be, think they reported last week that pigs could fly as well.

Is there nothing Rovers fans can't do?

[Ezeikial]

In an article in The Star, "Paul Lennon vehemently opposes the possibility of the Tallaght club having a second team in the League of Ireland"

http://www.thestar.ie/star/a-rovers-team-in-the-first-division-would-be-a-sham-36753/

[disgruntled]

That's all very well from Mr Lennon but he doesn't ask or answer any of the questions that I asked in an earlier post & which most people would like an answer to.

(1) Will Rovers be getting some form of financial assistance to put a team in the 1st Division?
(2) Will Rovers be allowed to pull out of the U19 league, participation in which I understand is part of the rules in receiving a licence & if so what effect will that have on the licencing applications of all the other League of Ireland clubs.
(3) Were all the other Premier Division clubs given the option to enter a team in the 1st division for the coming season?

Lennon's piece is just jumping on the bandwagon without bothering to investigate any of the circumstances. Anyone on here could have written the same piece any time. The only difference is that he gets paid for doing it. It’s just another example of the lazy journalism we have come to expect in this country.
Just write your standard piece, throw in a few file photo's & that’ll do.
I would also disagree with Lennon when he says it’s a barmy idea. Throughout Europe it is common for clubs to have reserve teams in the lower divisions & looking at the standard of the football in these countries it doesn't seem to have done any harm at all.

Personally I have no problem with Rovers having a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division provided every other Premier Division team were given the same opportunity & possible incentives.
I have highlighted the word incentives as we don't know if there were any because no one from the FAI has bothered to come out & explain their latest batch of fudge.

I have e mailed the FAI with a request for information but I won't be holding my breath.

Incidentally I already know the answer to question no 3 above.
It is NO.

[A face]

(3) Were all the other Premier Division clubs given the option to enter a team in the 1st division for the coming season?

That answer to that is no.

[CrowdedHouse]

(2) Will Rovers be allowed to pull out of the U19 league, participation in which I understand is part of the rules in receiving a licence & if so what effect will that have on the licensing applications of all the other League of Ireland clubs.
.

This mustn't matter because the new GFC are not allowed have an U19 team for at least 5 years

[legendz]

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

[disgruntled]

That answer to that is no.

Yes as I said in my post.
Don't know why though ?


This mustn't matter because the new GFC are not allowed have an U19 team for at least 5 years

Is there a reason for that ?


If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

The problem is they weren't.
Why all the secrecy ? It happens all over Europe.
Just come out and ask every Premier League club if they would like to enter a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division.
If some say no then that's fine but at least give them the option.
But no, that would be to easy for our glorious leaders the FAI.:mad:

[galwayhoop]

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.
Well assuming that the other clubs could meet license criteria with both the A and the B team then I agree.

Being allowed to swap the u19's for a B team is a big advantage imo. I'm sure a lot of other clubs would consider entering a B team in the 1st div if it meant they weren't "wasting" money on an u19 team where it's such a monumental jump from that to senior LOI.

I'm not too bothered if every team wasn't asked as for various reasons the likes of Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs and probably Dundalk wouldn't have a notion of supporting a second senior side. But I'd hope that at least some were asked, even casually.

Teams like Rovers, Derry, Cork and Limerick would certainly look at the feasibility I would imagine.

I don't think Pats (could be wrong) or Sligo would be interested.

UCD conceivably could enter but given they flirt toward the relegation end of the table (granted don't usually go down) so maybe on football basis they wouldn't be ideal but player resource wise they certainly would find it beneficial.