A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[legendz]

I think the idea behind a Polish, or an eastern European team playing in the league is actually a fantastic idea and could well attract a large following right across the country if it was based in the right area and marketed properly. Can't see it happening though.

At the moment it would appear the only option for an 8th team in the first division. Interesting how Tralee get mentioned but no mention of Kilkenny, Monaghan nor Kildare. Is it that they'd know full well what they'd be getting into?!

Is a 7 team division more preferable than B teams joining the division?

While the take up of first teams in the A Championship was low, 8 first teams played in the league over 4 years - Mervue United, Salthill Devon, Tullamore Town, Castlebar Celtic, Tralee Dynamos, FC Carlow, Cobh Ramblers and Fanad Utd. If an 8th team can't be found and B teams is not an option, I think a single tier division of 18/19 with a regionalised A type league below it should be explored as an option.

[Longfordian]

I recall, when Athlone IT built the new pitch and running track alongside the full size astro pitch, there was talk around the college they were planning to eventually break into League of Ireland football. Crazy talk at the time and it never materialised. Obviously the link with Athlone Town ended it anyway.

I think the idea behind a Polish, or an eastern European team playing in the league is actually a fantastic idea and could well attract a large following right across the country if it was based in the right area and marketed properly. Can't see it happening though.
Could share Dalymount. Lots of Polish/Eastern Europeans in the area and I'm sure Zurich would appreciate the cash!

[avvenalaf]

How about a Polish L.O.I team wearing the Polish colours targeting the large Polish community in Ireland. The bulk of the team would be polish nationals. They could play out of Tolka park and call themselves Polska FC... Just an idea.

It would be great to see football played in Tolka Park again.

[citybone]

If there was a polish team they could play away every week and every second game keep the gate receipt's or just split gate receipts every game like cup games. It would give the Polish outside Dublin a chance to go to games. Obviously they would need consent of every club to do this. but i think it would nearly increase there average attendance.

[outspoken]

If there was a polish team they could play away every week and every second game keep the gate receipt's or just split gate receipts every game like cup games. It would give the Polish outside Dublin a chance to go to games. Obviously they would need consent of every club to do this. but i think it would nearly increase there average attendance.

Their ultras would be quite something.

[JC_GUFC]

I too like the idea of Polska in Tolka

[A face]

I'd rather LOI clubs try and integrate the Polish communities in their area and get them supporting the existing clubs. Having a team from another community to make up the numbers is daft imo, but if it were to happen then SARI (http://www.sari.ie/football-for-hope/) are already up and running.

[nigel-harps1954]

Having a team from another community to make up the numbers is daft imo,

Why? Genuine question. I'm all for social integration with the current clubs, but it doesn't seem to work any time it's been tried in Finn Park for instance.
Bringing along another junior club won't work. Starting a new club has failed already in the past. Why not bring in a club aimed at foreign nationals? What harm could it do?

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Irish Ice Hockey Association tried this idea, before the league basically went defunct, with the "Latvian Hawks" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Hawks

No idea how it worked out, but considering the sorry state of that sport in Ireland in general, probably not too well.

I don't see such an idea working. I think you guys might be overestimating the size of the Polish community, which as far as I know is on the decrease (I'm willing to be corrected on that if its not true), relative to the amount who would care about a football club built expressly for them.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Just on that, had a quick chat with a friend of mine who played in that league for another team while it was running


...like all the hockey teams in Ireland they're currently not in business because there are no rinks and no league in the Republic. But while they existed they were very successful IIRC, they had a huge member base and teams in all three league tiers. They were also quite involved in the general development of the sport because they were from countries with a more established hockey culture so they knew what they were doing.
And they had quite a fan base too, they got a lot of coverage online, sites like Baltic Ireland and such. Whether that's because of the sense of community in the team or because hockey is such a huge sport further east, is anyone's guess, but I presume its a combination of the two


So maybe there is something there.

[Jofspring]

The Irish Ice Hockey Association tried this idea, before the league basically went defunct, with the "Latvian Hawks" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Hawks

No idea how it worked out, but considering the sorry state of that sport in Ireland in general, probably not too well.

I don't see such an idea working. I think you guys might be overestimating the size of the Polish community, which as far as I know is on the decrease (I'm willing to be corrected on that if its not true), relative to the amount who would care about a football club built expressly for them.

I'd say you are right. For example there was a Polish junior team formed in Limerick who were handy enough with decent playing numbers for the first 3 or 4 years but due to the fact so many were returning to Poland to work they ended up finishing up as a club due to lack of numbers.

[Lim till i die]

This was actually talked about when Danny Drew was involved with Limerick if im not mistaken. It was while we were in Hogan Park. The plan was supposedly to takeoever Limerick and change it to that if i remember correctly. Im sure the likes of LTID and Gael would remember.

Those were the days, twas towards the end of the second year in Rathbane, crowds were down around 100-150 at this stage, some load of guff started (whether by Drew or by the Poles winding him up who knows/cares) about some Polish millionaires coming in buying the club and changing the name and colours.

With hindsight it probably had as much grounding in reality as the rest of the Drew regime but at the time some of us took it seriousish, it felt like Limerick was full of Polish people at the time with the Dell factory and furriners were still a bit of a novelty in Limerick city. I vaguely remember mass outbreaks of xenophobia and Carling drinking among the few dozen of us who bothered with the final game of the season at home to Kilkenny a couple of days after the "announcement".

If only it had happened, I could have gotten into Munster Rugby and normal pursuits, being a Mid table Premier team with a mildly annoying, megalomaniac, chairman has turned out to be far, far more tedious than being a basket case First Division club with a foaming at the mouth, megalomaniac, chairman.

[citybone]

The decrease in Polish community wasn't that much. In 2007 census there were over 400,000 polish, in 2011 (well into the recession) there were still about 360,000, Maybe some more left since but they are still nearly 10% of the population, probably 7-8%. I know Cork City have been making some little steps trying to get a few more polish friends to games. but its a mostly a untapped market.

[A face]

Why? Genuine question. I'm all for social integration with the current clubs, but it doesn't seem to work any time it's been tried in Finn Park for instance.

First up, i dont know what was done at Harps but what was actually done to try and integrate foreign nationals to the club? Not having a go but i have yet to see a LOI club do it in any meaningful way, including my own. I think its daft because the motive is wrong, and its coming from the wrong people, by that i mean it should be the club looking to join, not the other way around. And the idea that a community dispersed all round the country will all come out and support a club in one location is mad. Sure start one in Dublin, we don't have enough clubs up around that way at all.

Being honest, i think the clubs listed above as having played in the A Championship are the best ones to approach, after that you'd really have to look at population centres and see if there is a void. There would really need to be a market for it if its going to survive, and the FAI would do well to approach the local council, TDs, colleges and garner support for the club rather than them going it alone.

[Dodge]

Not having a go but i have yet to see a LOI club do it in any meaningful way

Depends what you mean by meaningful. Pats had a bit of the website in Polish (not just one page but history, directions etc) for a good while. They had a friendly v Wisla Krakow. They had ads in the local immigrant press and they've always worked with the likes of SARI etc.

There's a few Polish lads who go to Pats games but not many. The reasons for Polish people not going are probably the same as Irish people rather than a lack of "tapping" into the market

[A face]

Has any LOI ever had a Polish player playing for them?

[trevy]

Waterford United had 2 a few yars ago but I think they lasted less than half a season with us like most of the players in Mike Kerley's team that year. We didn't win a league game while he was manager!

[Longfordian]

LTFC had one lad in the squad in 2012 I think. I'm not sure if he ever played a game, he was let go in July as far as I can recall.

[Dodge]

Has any LOI ever had a Polish player playing for them?

Pats had Jaroslaw Bialek with us in 2008. He was poison

[nigel-harps1954]

First up, i dont know what was done at Harps but what was actually done to try and integrate foreign nationals to the club? Not having a go but i have yet to see a LOI club do it in any meaningful way, including my own. I think its daft because the motive is wrong, and its coming from the wrong people, by that i mean it should be the club looking to join, not the other way around. And the idea that a community dispersed all round the country will all come out and support a club in one location is mad. Sure start one in Dublin, we don't have enough clubs up around that way at all.

Being honest, i think the clubs listed above as having played in the A Championship are the best ones to approach, after that you'd really have to look at population centres and see if there is a void. There would really need to be a market for it if its going to survive, and the FAI would do well to approach the local council, TDs, colleges and garner support for the club rather than them going it alone.

There was a game in Finn Park a couple of years ago, billed as a foreign national fan day or something of the sort. There was a pre-match get together in the pub where anyone who came along got scarves and grub and a few board members attended. Roughly about 40 or 50 turned up if memory serves me right. They all got into the game for free. Don't think I ever seen any of them back again.
There was a Polish goalkeeper up with Harps a few years ago too, but I think there was some sort of problem with signing him in the end. No idea of the details to be honest.

While I agree, clubs that were in the A championship should be invited in, have they any appetite? Was there any sort of fanbase? Is there genuine potential around these clubs to succeed or will we end up with another Mervue United or Salthill Devon?

I genuinely think, that a proper club aimed at foreign nationals, be it Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian or what have you, would be the best option for a new club to succeed in a fairly quick manner.

[outspoken]

LTFC had one lad in the squad in 2012 I think. I'm not sure if he ever played a game, he was let go in July as far as I can recall.

Piotr! He played 1 or 2 pre season games and sat in the stand for the rest of the season and was released in July as you said, midfielder signed from Longford Celtic.

[Martinho II]

Piotr! He played 1 or 2 pre season games and sat in the stand for the rest of the season and was released in July as you said, midfielder signed from Longford Celtic.

piotr szcerbowski he did definitely make a first team appearance I think it was in LSC as far as I can remember!

[bluemovie]

Has any LOI ever had a Polish player playing for them?


Waterford United had 2 a few yars ago but I think they lasted less than half a season with us like most of the players in Mike Kerley's team that year. We didn't win a league game while he was manager!


Piotr Suski was part of Waterford's league-winning team in 1973 and, as Trevy says, Kristian Lamberski and Andrew Polewczak had far less success with us in 2006.

[Acornvilla]

I played astro with Pitor a few times, he wasn't very good to be honest :P

[Lim till i die]

He must be nearly 60 at this stage in fairness

[citybone]

First up, i dont know what was done at Harps but what was actually done to try and integrate foreign nationals to the club? Not having a go but i have yet to see a LOI club do it in any meaningful way, including my own. I think its daft because the motive is wrong, and its coming from the wrong people, by that i mean it should be the club looking to join, not the other way around. And the idea that a community dispersed all round the country will all come out and support a club in one location is mad. Sure start one in Dublin, we don't have enough clubs up around that way at all.

Being honest, i think the clubs listed above as having played in the A Championship are the best ones to approach, after that you'd really have to look at population centres and see if there is a void. There would really need to be a market for it if its going to survive, and the FAI would do well to approach the local council, TDs, colleges and garner support for the club rather than them going it alone.

For years we done nothing, but at the end of last season we worked with Sari to get a few in to the last game. Impossible to tell how well that will do in the long run as we haven't played since, but repeating the promotion with them might help.

[Partizan]

So this is what we are reduced to, wishful thinking about ethnic clubs taking a place in the League. More pie in the sky nonsense. There was never any chance of that happening as Poles, Latvians etc. feel no attachment to the League or just couldnt be bothered. If they did there would be several of the big ethnic clubs making waves in junior football. Those that are there such as Romstar and Dynamo Dublin are AUL Phoenix Park kick about on a Sunday morning outfits.

You can forget about Tralee, Castlebar, Carlow etc. That ship has long sailed. Same goes for the reserve side from the Premier talk. The FAI will go ahead with a seven, yes seven team FD for 2014.

[Sam_Heggy]

The FAI will go ahead with a seven, yes seven team FD for 2014.

Unfortunately, have to agree, the FAI won't be changing it.

They don't give a flying fook about the first div, nor the LOI for that matter. While the Keane/O'Neill circus is on they'll just brush it under the carpet. Once they remember it, they will just say "7 teams will work (and if not, who cares?), let's get fixtures and fudge licencing asap".

[toffeejay]

If it's seven then it has to be a single tier. Going from last seasons attendances (and you'd expect the to be higher in top flight) it's only Salthill, Mervue and Wexford under the 400 mark. Don't think any of the bigger clubs can fairly claim they'll lose to much money, if anything there should be more interest in playing more clubs once than less twice.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The FAI is releasing fixtures in just over a month, with no indication that a single tier is being pursued.

[gufcfan]

The FAI is releasing fixtures in just over a month, with no indication that a single tier is being pursued.

Good. Can't understand how people think a single-tier solves anything. It would be the end of clubs barely surviving the FD.

[nigel-harps1954]

Good. Can't understand how people think a single-tier solves anything. It would be the end of clubs barely surviving the FD.

And 7 teams won't be the end of them surviving? Sure thing ;)

[Longfordian]

Are teams going to play each other 5 times or what? Jesus, 4 is painful enough for most fixtures.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The FD fixtures will be announced as late as possible in case some other entity suddenly arrives to make up the numbers. But for the moment it appears as if seven teams is it. 24 games a season is probably too low, so 30 it will probably be, with an odd team out every matchday.

So, who here thinks their club will still be in the LOI this time next year under those conditions? In what order is the march to oblivion?

[bluewhitearmy]

The FAI is releasing fixtures in just over a month, with no indication that a single tier is being pursued.

Where did this come from i havent seen it anywhere?

[culloty82]

For years we done nothing, but at the end of last season we worked with Sari to get a few in to the last game. Impossible to tell how well that will do in the long run as we haven't played since, but repeating the promotion with them might help.

My college dissertation concerned ethnic marketing, and apart from the Polish saying they preferred ads in their own language, no-one actually required any different attention to the general population. So, apart from the usual promotions, the best advice would be target the community centres, such as schools, churches, etc, and aside from any extra Irish fans, increased minority attendances will be an automatic by-product.

[outspoken]

For me the biggest problem with a 7 team division is the fact a team has a week off every round so that's a weekend where there is no money coming into the club but they still have to pay players, managers etc. If the FAI want to kill of the remaining second tier clubs they are going about it the right way.

[Terry]

"The 2014 Airtricity League season will commence on Friday, March 7. Further details on the 2014 season will be announced in due course."

Am I reading to much into this, but the way I read the above sounds like a one tier league?

[Mr A]

I think so, don't see any implication of a one tier league there.

[Macy]

Am I reading to much into this, but the way I read the above sounds like a one tier league?
I don't take that from it. Except the fudge about in due course - probably mean the 5th March is when we'll know!

[avvenalaf]

Looks like 8 clubs in Division One next season. Released Shams players have formed Provisional Shams.

[Terry]

I think so, don't see any implication of a one tier league there.


I don't take that from it. Except the fudge about in due course - probably mean the 5th March is when we'll know!

Ye are probably right. Its just I was thinking that if there was 2 leagues next season, that they would have said "leagues" rather than "league".

[cobhlad]

Seriously has to be more than 7 teams. Bad enough with 8 last year. Teams so spread out as well. Any FD transfer news about?

[sadloserkid]

This was actually talked about when Danny Drew was involved with Limerick if im not mistaken. It was while we were in Hogan Park. The plan was supposedly to takeoever Limerick and change it to that if i remember correctly. Im sure the likes of LTID and Gael would remember.

There's a thread about it on this very site somewhere if you were to go trawling for it. Fun times.


At the moment it would appear the only option for an 8th team in the first division. Interesting how Tralee get mentioned but no mention of Kilkenny, Monaghan nor Kildare. Is it that they'd know full well what they'd be getting into?!

It's that the clubs you're referring to don't exist I would imagine while Tralee do (Monaghan may still have a ladies team or some such but my point remains)...


Has any LOI ever had a Polish player playing for them?

Kilkenny had one too, forget his name. It clearly didn't do much for their crowds. Limerick had a Slovak who sat on the bench quite a lot.

[citybone]

I would have thought Mons would come back if it was worth their while. As in dropping the registration fee significantly. Kildare is gone, Newbridge are in the Leinster senior league somewhere maybe with a few promotions to the top of the leinster senior league and they might be viable then. Going back to when Kildare native Niall Quinn invested into a English club rather than a struggling team from his own county. He could have made Kildare a long lasting LOI club and a bit stronger but like thousands of Irish, they prefer to support the English clubs.

[adamd164]

Where did this come from i havent seen it anywhere?

In recent years, the PD fixtures have come out in December.. before Christmas.

If that doesn't happen this year, it's likely that the FAI are packing more fudge than a Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Fudge Brownie.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I would have thought Mons would come back if it was worth their while. As in dropping the registration fee significantly. Kildare is gone, Newbridge are in the Leinster senior league somewhere maybe with a few promotions to the top of the leinster senior league and they might be viable then. Going back to when Kildare native Niall Quinn invested into a English club rather than a struggling team from his own county. He could have made Kildare a long lasting LOI club and a bit stronger but like thousands of Irish, they prefer to support the English clubs.

No sign that this is happening. FAI seem content to just keep up the pretence that the current structure is viable for league stability. In a few years, that never-ending debate on one tier/two tier will be academic.

[alkev]

Shels selling season tickets based on 14 home games, so they think it's going to be an 8 team league.

[passinginterest]

At least one premier division team definitely planning to enter a reserve team in the first division. Don't think it's been confirmed yet though, maybe pending some other new club making an application.

[A face]

At least one premier division team definitely planning to enter a reserve team in the first division. Don't think it's been confirmed yet though, maybe pending some other new club making an application.

But that will leave it open for all the other teams to enter a team. I dunno, i'd prefer if it were still the A Championship, then the First above it. Surely the FAI now need to move to resolve this problem long term rather than scrambling to get teams together at the start of a season. Can they not approach some of the junior leagues and look for representation and get them putting a team together. Grow the sport and give players a platform in which they can play to a higher level.