A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[A face]

The answer to questions 1 and 3 should be yes. No point in even guessing whats going to happen re player movement.
If there is no registration fee and the 19s are allowed to be scrapped I'd say a few other clubs may be interested in a B team, sure you could just enter the 19s as a B side and have them playing at a higher level every week

Getting rid of the A Championship, making a pigs ear of the introduction of B Sides, U19s leagues future uncertain .... its clear that its all being managed aimlessly, no plan to develop or grow the league. Sure no wonder we dont have new teams coming through.

[Titan]

Until we have a proper pyramid system there will be no progress. We won't get a proper pyramid system while junior football has so much influence. I'm sick of the attitude of some people who are involved in "big" Leinster senior etc clubs that they are bigger and better run than loi clubs. I've heard 3 different people claim this in the last 5 days. My answer has been the same to each. "Are you? Really? Prove it then by joining the loi and putting the rest of us in our place" this was met with hysterical laughter each time. Sick of "football people" in this country.

[legendz]

B teams shouldn't be at the expense of an U19 side. I'd have thought it'd be more for players over 19 for 2-3 years to progress with a club outside of their first team.
The underage league has gone backwards compared with years ago when a number of teams outside the LoU fielded a team. If Kerry join the U19 next year, I'll be interested to see if a few more teams might do likewise over the next few years. Maybe long term then new teams can be invited 2 at a time to join the LoI if they're ready for the step up on and off the park.

[peadar1987]

B teams shouldn't be at the expense of an U19 side. I'd have thought it'd be more for players over 19 for 2-3 years to progress with a club outside of their first team.
The underage league has gone backwards compared with years ago when a number of teams outside the LoU fielded a team. If Kerry join the U19 next year, I'll be interested to see if a few more teams might do likewise over the next few years. Maybe long term then new teams can be invited 2 at a time to join the LoI if they're ready for the step up on and off the park.

It would be far better if there was a stipulation that the B teams had to field a certain number of under-19 players in each game. Of course, it would be even better still if there was a proper joined-up structure for youth football in this country.

[legendz]

It would be far better if there was a stipulation that the B teams had to field a certain number of under-19 players in each game. Of course, it would be even better still if there was a proper joined-up structure for youth football in this country.I think the stipulation should be no more than 3 over age of 23 players in a B team's matchday squad. The first division is a senior league not an underage league. U19 team should remain as they are.

[wonder88]

Very good article. The lack of connection between the LoI and the general population is glaring in a nation that loves sport (soccer especially) and is well highlighted by the writer. Sadly my own opinion is that there will be no improvement in attendance figures or the number of viable clubs, as long as the mindset of those in charge of the league (and clubs) change.

[A face]

John Delaney was interviewed on Radio Kerry during the week. He seemed more interested in a Rovers B team than Dynamos joining the league. It was put to him if Dynamos met the criteria would they be entered as a 9th team, he was saying that there preference is for 8 for the even number of teams/games.

Its mad to think that he would want to have a B Team in the first division over another club from a region that currently doesn't have a club. Is he actively discouraging teams from entering the league? I really don't get it. I'd say something if he was pointing to 'a plan' and saying we must stay the course or whatever but there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to some of the decisions being made. It's all off the back of a beer mat and even that plan is scraped after ten pints and the beer mat is sodden through. The reasoning behind the decisions are better understood when you know there was 10 pints onboard anyway.

[disgruntled]

Until we have a proper pyramid system there will be no progress. We won't get a proper pyramid system while junior football has so much influence. I'm sick of the attitude of some people who are involved in "big" Leinster senior etc clubs that they are bigger and better run than loi clubs. I've heard 3 different people claim this in the last 5 days. My answer has been the same to each. "Are you? Really? Prove it then by joining the loi and putting the rest of us in our place" this was met with hysterical laughter each time. Sick of "football people" in this country.

I hope you're young because otherwise your not ever going to see this :bigsmile:

[nr637]

http://foot.ie/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by orielabu http://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=1726746#post1726746)
http://backpagefootball.com/shamrock...ireland/66483/ (http://backpagefootball.com/shamrock-rovers-b-and-the-footballing-map-of-ireland/66483/)

The main stumbling block with the progression of League football here is definetly the lack of planning by the FAI.

[Fivesilver]

I'm sick of the attitude of some people who are involved in "big" Leinster senior etc clubs that they are bigger and better run than loi clubs. I've heard 3 different people claim this in the last 5 days.

Of course they are - that's why they win the FAI Cup so often. Muppets.

[gormacha]

No point in even guessing whats going to happen re player movement.

Most leagues that have B teams effectively treat them as two seperate clubs. It's a well established principle in schoolboy and schoolgirl football. Once you register for one, you can't play with the other, unless you move during a transfer window.

[Dodge]

Its mad to think that he would want to have a B Team in the first division over another club from a region that currently doesn't have a club.
There's absolutely nothing to suggest that this is the case. All we know is that Tralee have applied in the pst and shown they were not worthy candidates.

My own guess is that Delaney (and the rest) would love to have strong teams from all over the country in that division.

But as it is, he kinda needs a b team, and he at least knows they're financially stable

[Ezeikial]

In another amazing "exclusive" Garry Doyle announces that the FAI have waived the U-19 licencing requirement for Shamrock Rovers.


Shamrock Rovers (http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Shamrock_Rovers) are confident of striking an agreement with the FAI within the next 72 hours to secure the introduction of their 'B' team into next season's League of Ireland First Division.

A further meeting is likely to take place over the weekend between the two parties to finalise the terms which will see the club become the first in Ireland to enter a second senior team into the league.
With the major stumbling block -- the requirement of Shamrock Rovers (http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Shamrock_Rovers) to continue with an U-19 side -- no longer an issue, the green light is about to be given.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/double-joy-for-hoops-as-fai-poised-to-give-b-team-green-light-and-600000-sponsorship-deals-unveiled-29834295.html

Allowing players to move freely between A & B teams is the next concession to be drip-fed to us through non-questioning lackeys in the media.

Expect that the participation fee will not be waived - so as to maintain the illusion of the FAI imperative of equal treatment of all clubs!

[A face]

In another amazing "exclusive" Garry Doyle announces that the FAI have waived the U-19 licencing requirement for Shamrock Rovers.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/double-joy-for-hoops-as-fai-poised-to-give-b-team-green-light-and-600000-sponsorship-deals-unveiled-29834295.html

Allowing players to move freely between A & B teams is the next concession to be drip-fed to us through non-questioning lackeys in the media.

Expect that the participation fee will not be waived - so as to maintain the illusion of the FAI imperative of equal treatment of all clubs!

I take it all clubs will have this option now so.

[Charlie Darwin]

I take it all clubs will have this option now so.
I'm sure they would if any of them bothered to enter a team.

[A face]

I'm sure they would if any of them bothered to enter a team.

Well its good they all know that exceptions will be made as regards U19s and all the rest of it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well its good they all know that exceptions will be made as regards U19s and all the rest of it.
I'm sure it will be very useful information for them to have when they decide not to bother making an application.

[disgruntled]

Delaney & the FAI are really top dog in making it up as you go along planning.
Talking about opening a can of worms ?

The FAI plan is no plan.

[wonder88]

Really strange move by the FAI. I remember Pat Devlin making the point on a radio discussion that for a club like Bray having to enter an u-19 team was a big cost financially. He put the cost I think at 25K at the time. I understand that Shamrock R are budgeting for 80K per season to run a B team and it is clear that they see the benefits from such an expenditure justified, while the spending on u-19 is considered money down the drain for most clubs.
If it was possible to maintain a club from a new area or one of the former league clubs for 80K per year do people think that we would have new entrants to the league?

[A face]

I'm sure it will be very useful information for them to have when they decide not to bother making an application.

I completely understand it from your perspective Charlie, to be fair you are fairly level headed at the best of times when you're not compromised, you are obviously not gonna run down your own club because of this. And you could be right about the applications, most club have already subscribed to the idea of having proper structures in place to develop players all the way up along, the U19s is something that is actually working, and instead of keeping it there, the FAI seem to be pulling another jenga block out and no one knows what will happen, i include the FAI in that. Instead of fostering other clubs to make the jump up when Kildare County when left the scene then are now in a position where they have to make this move. This B Team stuff has only just come out of the wood work, most clubs wont jump into it when its just sprung on them, you cant expect them to, and it'll be reassuring that they wont as well because we'll see it wont be a haphazard decision. Being honest, this league is miles off having B Teams, and Rovers might find that out yet. There is alot more to be done before we all start contemplating that one, making club more financially viable being a more pressing issue i would have thought.

When they FAI first took over it seemed like we were gonna get closer to that, licensing, participation, A Championship, CPO, the addition of new teams (not all were going to work out to be fair, we all knew that) it did seem for a while that we were gonna turn a corner ... But things are slipping away, strokes being pulled and its not a great way to be doing business. I dont think anyone will be steeped in confidence over this, even Rovers fans. We're back to everything done on a beermat, i'll scratch your back and you scratch mine.

I dont know if Delaney will be there much longer, maybe the way the politics works he'll be there for another 20-30 years, i dunno, i'm not pushed really just as long as things are happening, as long as there is reform, and at this stage i dont care how that reform happens but things are slowing going bad, instead of improving its deteriorating and the biggest thing here is the confidence was one of the first things to go. Unless its all clear and transparent and out in the open, so the strokes cant happen then its hopeless.

[Charlie Darwin]

Why would I run down any club because of this? Rovers haven't done anything wrong, and I'd say the same if it was Pats or Sligo.

There is no evidence to suggest that Rovers have been granted an exemption from the entry fee or from fielding an U19s side. There are news articles, yes, hilariously portrayed here as Rovers having unquestioning moles in the media that no other club has access to (did the FAI take your phones and give them to Shamrock Rovers too, lads?). I think the entry fee exemption is a reasonable request given they've already paid it once. The U19s request is understandable but to be honest I hope they do end up fielding both.

And I am 100% right about the applications. This Rovers B story came out a week before the deadline for applications. That's roughly a week longer than most clubs take to fill out an application, so plenty of time. The point is that no other club wants a B team in the league, but they desperately want to complain about whoever does. I have no doubt there are people involved in the LOI clubs who will secretly be delighted if this goes ahead because it will feed their persecution complex.

[Dodge]

The point is that no other club wants a B team in the league, but they desperately want to complain about whoever does.

I don't think you should confuse posters here with their clubs tbh. We don't know how most clubs feel on it (presumably they're waiting to see/read the details)

In general message boards play host to some of the least stable individuals in football.

[Yossarian]

I think the entry fee exemption is a reasonable request given they've already paid it once.


They paid it once to enter one team in the league. If they want another team then they should have to pay the entry fee for that second team. You can't pay for one raffle ticket and then have numerous entries in the draw!

[citybone]

Why would I run down any club because of this? Rovers haven't done anything wrong, and I'd say the same if it was Pats or Sligo.

There is no evidence to suggest that Rovers have been granted an exemption from the entry fee or from fielding an U19s side. There are news articles, yes, hilariously portrayed here as Rovers having unquestioning moles in the media that no other club has access to (did the FAI take your phones and give them to Shamrock Rovers too, lads?). I think the entry fee exemption is a reasonable request given they've already paid it once. The U19s request is understandable but to be honest I hope they do end up fielding both.

And I am 100% right about the applications. This Rovers B story came out a week before the deadline for applications. That's roughly a week longer than most clubs take to fill out an application, so plenty of time. The point is that no other club wants a B team in the league, but they desperately want to complain about whoever does. I have no doubt there are people involved in the LOI clubs who will secretly be delighted if this goes ahead because it will feed their persecution complex.
I think this has been covered in that Cork City wants a b/reserve team but wanted to play at MSL level as the standard would still be high and costs would be much lower than the First Division. If Cork City had a B team in the first division we would have significantly more travel than any Dublin club. u19 team and loaning players to Cobh is our best solution for now.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think you should confuse posters here with their clubs tbh. We don't know how most clubs feel on it (presumably they're waiting to see/read the details)

In general message boards play host to some of the least stable individuals in football.
I'm of the view that if you want to enter a team in a league, you should apply for entry. Otherwise, you're just somebody who likes talking about it.


They paid it once to enter one team in the league. If they want another team then they should have to pay the entry fee for that second team. You can't pay for one raffle ticket and then have numerous entries in the draw!
The PA says each club has to pay an entry fee as laid out by the organising committee. Obviously, this is the FAI and the rules don't mean anything, but it's an argument you can make. Personally, I'd scrap entrance fees and reduce prize money accordingly, but I can see why other teams would be annoyed if it wasn't paid twice.


I think this has been covered in that Cork City wants a b/reserve team but wanted to play at MSL level as the standard would still be high and costs would be much lower than the First Division. If Cork City had a B team in the first division we would have significantly more travel than any Dublin club. u19 team and loaning players to Cobh is our best solution for now.
The MSL presumably has different rules. UCD have a team in the LSL, so I don't see why the FAI would stand in the way of Cork joining MSL, so it's an issue for the organisers of that league. By "no other teams wants a B team in the league" I meant LOI level purely.

[gufct]

Gfc have been blocked from entering teams in either the U19 loi or the new Csl for the next 5 years due to an agreement between the fai , salthill and mervue.

[Dodge]

I'm of the view that if you want to enter a team in a league, you should apply for entry. Otherwise, you're just somebody who likes talking about it.

Again, as most clubs have said nothing either way, why do you assume they feel differently?

[Charlie Darwin]

Again, as most clubs have said nothing either way, why do you assume they feel differently?
The only thing I'm assuming is that no club who wanted a B team was prevented from making their case.

[Mr A]

I don't think Rovers have done anything wrong. The full story on this isn't in the public domain yet so I'm reserving judgement to an extent, but it does appear the FAI may have questions to answer.

[nigel-harps1954]

Agree with Mr.A on this one. I don't think Rovers have done anything wrong at all. But, should they enter a second team, they should most certainly be made pay the entry fee for both teams as it is a separate team altogether at the end of the day.

[Charlie Darwin]

Agree with Mr.A on this one. I don't think Rovers have done anything wrong at all. But, should they enter a second team, they should most certainly be made pay the entry fee for both teams as it is a separate team altogether at the end of the day.
The PA says each club must pay the entry fee.

I think Rovers probably should pay the fee but only if it is financially viable. If not, a 7-team league it is and FD clubs should be able to cope with the reduction in home gates.

[nigel-harps1954]

The PA says each club must pay the entry fee.

I think Rovers probably should pay the fee but only if it is financially viable. If not, a 7-team league it is and FD clubs should be able to cope with the reduction in home gates.

Shouldn't that apply to all clubs then?

[Charlie Darwin]

Shouldn't that apply to all clubs then?
Absolutely. But if one team is committing two teams, they should be afforded a bit of flexibility in light of their disproportionate contribution. If that's not acceptable to the league, they can operate with seven teams and everybody can lose home gates.

[citybone]

IThe MSL presumably has different rules. UCD have a team in the LSL, so I don't see why the FAI would stand in the way of Cork joining MSL, so it's an issue for the organisers of that league. By "no other teams wants a B team in the league" I meant LOI level purely.
The MSL clubs didnt want "professional/semi pro" players playing against their teams.

[GCdfc]

Absolutely. But if one team is committing two teams, they should be afforded a bit of flexibility in light of their disproportionate contribution. If that's not acceptable to the league, they can operate with seven teams and everybody can lose home gates.

No one is holding a gun to Rovers telling them to enter two teams.

[Pablo Escobar]

The MSL clubs didnt want "professional/semi pro" players playing against their teams.

I think they said that they didn't want the same team winning it every year. They ignored the fact that Avondale currently do that anyway.

Also, it's not really a Munster League as ALL of the 34 clubs are from Cork.

[Dodge]

The UCD team in the LSL isn't a reserve team either. Completely separate club structures (eg the LSL team plays students only) while the LOI team can sign anyone and uses the lads on scholarship

[pineapple stu]

Think the LSL is students and ex-students.

There's some players there (James Timmons for example) who played LoI years ago. You spot them crop up every now and again a couple of years after being released by the LoI club.

Two separate clubs though, which is why they were allowed into the FAI Cup a few years back (though I think the FAI have since banned them from qualifying)

[marinobohs]

Absolutely. But if one team is committing two teams, they should be afforded a bit of flexibility in light of their disproportionate contribution. If that's not acceptable to the league, they can operate with seven teams and everybody can lose home gates.

The two teams will not be connected presumably (different registration of players etc) except by single parent club. Don't see any reason the FD team should not pay the same admittance fee as every other team in the First Division. If Shams don't want to pay a separate fee then don't have a separate team, simple as.

[Charlie Darwin]

The two teams will not be connected presumably (different registration of players etc) except by single parent club. Don't see any reason the FD team should not pay the same admittance fee as every other team in the First Division. If Shams don't want to pay a separate fee then don't have a separate team, simple as.
Agree with this. We'll see how it turns out.

[disgruntled]

Why would I run down any club because of this? Rovers haven't done anything wrong, and I'd say the same if it was Pats or Sligo.

There is no evidence to suggest that Rovers have been granted an exemption from the entry fee or from fielding an U19s side. There are news articles, yes, hilariously portrayed here as Rovers having unquestioning moles in the media that no other club has access to (did the FAI take your phones and give them to Shamrock Rovers too, lads?). I think the entry fee exemption is a reasonable request given they've already paid it once. The U19s request is understandable but to be honest I hope they do end up fielding both.

And I am 100% right about the applications. This Rovers B story came out a week before the deadline for applications. That's roughly a week longer than most clubs take to fill out an application, so plenty of time. The point is that no other club wants a B team in the league, but they desperately want to complain about whoever does. I have no doubt there are people involved in the LOI clubs who will secretly be delighted if this goes ahead because it will feed their persecution complex.

No the point is other clubs weren't given the option.
What gives you or anyone else the right to make decisions for other clubs ?
Personally I don't care who has a team as long as its a level playing field for all.
Give all the clubs the option & let them decide.

[Charlie Darwin]

No the point is other clubs weren't given the option.
What gives you or anyone else the right to make decisions for other clubs ?
Personally I don't care who has a team as long as its a level playing field for all.
Give all the clubs the option & let them decide.
There was nothing stopping them approaching the FAI with a plan, like Rovers did two years ago.

[SkStu]

it just feels dirty.

[marinobohs]

There was nothing stopping them approaching the FAI with a plan, like Rovers did two years ago.

There certainly was rumors that some clubs were approached (about fielding a 2nd team in FD ) although I have no idea how formal or otherwise any contact was. Well known that the FD was in serious need of new blood so don't believe any club with an interest would not have come forward.

I cant see any advantage for shams in it but if they want to put a 2nd team in and have a viable business proposal I don't see the problem as long as same rules/conditions apply as to any other team/club.

[Bawnville Hoop]

In all seriousness what clubs could actually do this. I could only see Cork City if anyone to do something like this..

I can't wait for this next season, should be great for Rovers.

[Dalymountrower]

First Division a handy place to park Crolly when Fenlon takes Director of Football job.

[JC_GUFC]

In general message boards play host to some of the least stable individuals in football.

You could say the same about LoI fans too.

[galwayhoop]

... and what then would you say of LoI message boards...

[prince20]

The information I understand regarding this is as follows:

Rovers will have a reserve team
They will pay an affiliation fee for the reserve team
They will continue to have an under 19 team

As a long suffering Athlone Town fan I am just glad that Athlone won promotion on the field last season and hopefully all will go well with licensing so we dont have to put up with this charade next season. Im sure the people of Galway must be aghast at this.

[disgruntled]

There was nothing stopping them approaching the FAI with a plan, like Rovers did two years ago.

Why should they approach the FAI with anything ?
Its the FAI who run our football in this country not the clubs & its FAI's job to come up with the plan.
BUT the plan must be inclusive & include everyone.
The fact that Rovers or any other club approached the FAI should have nothing to do with it.
If the FAI thought the idea had merit, then they should have run with it & expanded the idea to include all Premier clubs.
Instead we have this secrecy behind closed doors discussion with a club which once it got out was bound to cause anger among other clubs & their fans.

I'm asked a question to which I've not yet received an answer.
"Why all the secrecy ?"

Maybe one of our brave investigative reporters :sleepy:can find an answer to the question because the FAI have remained very silent on the matter despite requests for information.

Why not come straight out & give every Premier club the option to enter a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division ?
Then if one or two take it up,no problem as they were all given the same opportunity.
The whole situation just has a very bad smell to it.