A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[Ezeikial]

I'm not too bothered if every team wasn't asked as for various reasons the likes of Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs and probably Dundalk wouldn't have a notion of supporting a second senior side. But I'd hope that at least some were asked, even casually.


Do you work in the FAI? If not get your CV in quick - you show the sort of reasoning that they really value.

[disgruntled]

Well assuming that the other clubs could meet license criteria with both the A and the B team then I agree.

Being allowed to swap the u19's for a B team is a big advantage imo. I'm sure a lot of other clubs would consider entering a B team in the 1st div if it meant they weren't "wasting" money on an u19 team where it's such a monumental jump from that to senior LOI.

I'm not too bothered if every team wasn't asked as for various reasons the likes of Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs and probably Dundalk wouldn't have a notion of supporting a second senior side. But I'd hope that at least some were asked, even casually.

Teams like Rovers, Derry, Cork and Limerick would certainly look at the feasibility I would imagine.

I don't think Pats (could be wrong) or Sligo would be interested.

UCD conceivably could enter but given they flirt toward the relegation end of the table (granted don't usually go down) so maybe on football basis they wouldn't be ideal but player resource wise they certainly would find it beneficial.

I thought I'd better ask but you're not Delaney in disguise are you ?
Because if not you're not there's definitely a place for you out in Abbotstown.
Its thinking like yours which is the reason we're here discussing this subject.
I wonder what Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo & others clubs think of your vision for them.
Have you asked them ?

These clubs may not bother you but they bother a lot to the rest of us.
Strong clubs make a strong League which is good for the League of Ireland & football in Ireland in general.
A strong league properly run brings more people to the games which brings in more money for better facilities & better players.
Don't know about you but I know I'm tired of foreign clubs coming over here & stealing our brightest prospects for a handful of beans simply so we can feed ourselves from hand to mouth because those running our league's are more interested in their friends in EUFA & FIFA than their own National League .

[citybone]

I thought I'd better ask but you're not Delaney in disguise are you ?
Because if not you're not there's definitely a place for you out in Abbotstown.
Its thinking like yours which is the reason we're here discussing this subject.
I wonder what Bray, Drogheda, Athlone, Bohs, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo & others clubs think of your vision for them.
Have you asked them ?

These clubs may not bother you but they bother a lot to the rest of us.
Strong clubs make a strong League which is good for the League of Ireland & football in Ireland in general.
A strong league properly run brings more people to the games which brings in more money for better facilities & better players.
Don't know about you but I know I'm tired of foreign clubs coming over here & stealing our brightest prospects for a handful of beans simply so we can feed ourselves from hand to mouth because those running our league's are more interested in their friends in EUFA & FIFA than their own National League .
I dont know what your getting so worked up about, i think the same as him although i think Sligo would consider it too. The likes of Bray and Bohs simply could not afford to field a second team, crowds would be very low. I think Cork and Derry could have fielded a second team alright but Derry have a second team in the Ulster senior league which is much cheaper for them and Cork City can just Loan players out to Cobh and save money.

[Dodge]

If B teams are allowed, all premier clubs should have the option to field a B team.

They do. Just because Rovers were approached doesn't mean they can't apply in the same manner. Not a chance the majority will bother (for financial reasons)

[galwayhoop]

Thanks citybone.

The rest of ye relax. It's a bit like someone giving out when they weren't invited to a party when you know already they are away on holiday - but they still want to be invited.

My post was long enough, I felt, without breaking down the reasons why each club would not need the burden of a second league of ireland team. Minimum cost of €150,000 - €200,000 per annum. In most cases it's "the economy, stupid" as James Carville would say.

Anyway to ward off the Delaney rumours here goes...

Bray... Perennial relegation fighters who seem to be fighting to stay competitive in the premier division. The cost would be an unneeded burden.

Drogheda... Close to the brink of extinction a couple of years ago, unable to increase budget this year to push on from last couple of seasons so split with successful manager.

Athlone... Just promoted from a generation in the first division. All efforts will be on remaining in the premier division.

Bohs... Millions in debt. Are nearly amateur by all accounts. Rely on unproven young players and currently compete toward the bottom half. Financially could not handle duplicating this in a second division.

Dundalk... Now competing for silverware. Were also sailing very close to the wind recently. Will need every resource to push on from last year and maintain their level of competitiveness.

Pats... Having reduced their bugget most years in the recent past they still went on to win the league. Will need every penny to remain ahead of the two Rovers.

Sligo... Provincial club who operate on a near full time basis. Due to limited budget do not have a large squad as they can't afford it. After years of not competing they are now one of the top clubs in the country. However, they appear to be just able to maintain this level of expenditure.

UCD... Have how many teams already and stock these from students in the college. It could actually benefit them although their reserve teams already play LSL which is a decent level anyway. Doubt budget would be increased to enter second team.

Rovers... Big resources, massive player pool.

Derry... Decent position financially, already have second team competing in USL. May even have a local league team. Although as said above the cost of travel would mean they may decline.

Cork... Have sought to enter teams in the MSL before. As said above they already use Cobh for loaning players so may also decline.

Limerick... Big resources through their sugar daddy. Progressive club. They just might be interested.

Now the above is my interpretation of these clubs from stories, rumour and gossip. If I'm wrong i don't need lynching. This is just how a supporter of the league views the teams in the top division.

The FAI (of whom I am not a member) surely have a more in depth knowledge of each clubs finances through licensing etc.

Oh and if they had of asked every club I'm sure some of the same characters would be on here lambasting their stupidity of asking clubs who they know are in the doldrums (financially) if they would enter a second team. You just can't win with some people.

To my mind there are only 4 or 5 teams that it is worthwhile asking. The rest would not entertain it dor a second. And of that 4 or 5 only 2 or 3 would actually be interested.

Granted the others should not be refused the option if they wish to ask themselves.

That's my view anyway.

[galwayhoop]

Dodge I would have saved ten minutes of my life if I saw your post...

[Macy]

They do. Just because Rovers were approached doesn't mean they can't apply in the same manner. Not a chance the majority will bother (for financial reasons)
It should be an open and transparent process, with transparent criteria. Not this "we like the cut of your jib model club, fancy a B team?". Applications invited, additional licences granted against the criteria

Talk of finances is moot, as the sums are different if a team entering a B team can scrap their under 19's, then you're talking additional costs. Factor in lax rules about player movements (so getting better value out of the squad you're already paying) and it becomes much more attractive.

If most clubs wouldn't be interested, then there would've been no problem asking them. I can't believe some appear to be defending how this whole thing has, and continues to be, handled.

[Ezeikial]

They do. Just because Rovers were approached doesn't mean they can't apply in the same manner. Not a chance the majority will bother (for financial reasons)

Are you on a wind-up?

That is absolute nonsense - the suggestion that changing / relaxing / altering the rules for one club is somehow okay, because other clubs may not necessarily be specifically barred from applying also.

It is irrelevant that the majority of club may decline for financial reasons - fair play and transparency dictates that all clubs should be informed of the arrangements and criteria and invited to apply if interested.

[Yossarian]

I have no problem with Rovers or any other team having a reserve side in the first division once they are treated as a separate entity and players cannot switch between teams outside the transfer window.
There is an issue though if they are allowed to circumvent the licensing rules that all clubs have to adhere to as this could potentially open the FAI to legal challenge on any licensing issue down the line.

[gormacha]

There's no way I'm spending money to watch Shamrock Rovers' (or whoever) reserve team.

Reserve teams, by their very nature, are different animals to first XIs. The logic of their existence is player development for another team. They are used for experimentation, blooding, recovery and training. One week they'll play a full strength eleven, the next not. This undermines the division as every other team's logic will be to get promoted. It'll be pot luck which reserve team the other FD teams will face, and it will have a material outcome on the division.

In effect, the FD with a reserve team in it is a six team division with an added lottery dimension. If you had free hand to draw up ways to undermine a league this wouldn't be a bad effort.

[gufcfan]

There is an issue though if they are allowed to circumvent the licensing rules that all clubs have to adhere to as this could potentially open the FAI to legal challenge on any licensing issue down the line.

I think with the FAI's track record of sticking to their own rules, it's hard to say what they will do, but I think it would be a big step backwards to allow Rovers or anyone else to scrap their under 19 team.

It's bad enough that Mervue and Salthill have negotiated a nice deal to prevent Galway FC from having an under 19 team for at least 5 years or any other underage team.

That's why it wouldn't surprise me what the FAI would do next.

[Dodge]

That is absolute nonsense - the suggestion that changing / relaxing / altering the rules for one club is somehow okay, because other clubs may not necessarily be specifically barred from applying also.

I made absolutely no such suggestion. I've already said the only way this can work is if the two teams are effectively treated as separate entities.


It is irrelevant that the majority of club may decline for financial reasons - fair play and transparency dictates that all clubs should be informed of the arrangements and criteria and invited to apply if interested.

It's completely relevant. Clubs have until tomorrow to apply.

It's clear the FAI couldn't find a 20th league club so went back to the club who had approached them in the past about a reserve team. People can get on their high horse all they like but if it's a choice between a 7 team 1st division and 8 with a Rovers B team, there's only one winner there.

Oh and not at you Ezekial, but I firmly believe that the least half of those complaining about this wouldn't do so if it Pats, Sligo, Dundalk or anyone other than Rovers.

[disgruntled]

Its amazing how some on here know an awful lot about the views,ambitions and finances of the various clubs all based on pub stories, rumor etc so it must be true.
I don't know why we bother with a League at all.
We should just let some of them decide who's going in what League & pick the results each week.
Are you sure some of you have nothing to do with the FAI because you seem to know all the answers even before the questions are asked.
Typical Irish solution to an Irish problem, dig the hole first & then decide what to do with it :D

[gormacha]

if it's a choice between a 7 team 1st division and 8 with a Rovers B team, there's only one winner there.

Well, its a winner for the FAI. It's not at all clear to me how this is a win for the FD clubs. I'd even take a 30 game, five round, seven club division over one with a reserve team in it.

[nigel-harps1954]

Well, its a winner for the FAI. It's not at all clear to me how this is a win for the FD clubs. I'd even take a 30 game, five round, seven club division over one with a reserve team in it.

Honestly, as much as I dislike the idea, I'd prefer it over 7 teams to be honest. With 7 teams, there's one team missing a game every week, meaning a severe hit in finances should that club have away games either side of that week off.

[Ezeikial]

I made absolutely no such suggestion. I've already said the only way this can work is if the two teams are effectively treated as separate entities.



It's completely relevant. Clubs have until tomorrow to apply.

It's clear the FAI couldn't find a 20th league club so went back to the club who had approached them in the past about a reserve team. People can get on their high horse all they like but if it's a choice between a 7 team 1st division and 8 with a Rovers B team, there's only one winner there.

Oh and not at you Ezekial, but I firmly believe that the least half of those complaining about this wouldn't do so if it Pats, Sligo, Dundalk or anyone other than Rovers.

If the FAI have made the full criteria for this proposal available to all clubs and invited applications in an even handed manner - fair enough. This is the first suggestion I have heard that all other clubs have been invited to apply (although I remain dubious of the detail).


The FAI have an appalling record when it comes to fair play, honesty and transparency. It is almost as if they are addicted to manipulation and deception as a primary tactic.

[nigel-harps1954]

I believe what Dodge is saying, is that the rest of the clubs had every opportunity to apply for it themselves, rather than wait for the FAI to ask them.

Don't see anyone suggesting that all the clubs were invited to apply.

[disgruntled]

If the FAI have made the full criteria for this proposal available to all clubs and invited applications in an even handed manner - fair enough. This is the first suggestion I have heard that all other clubs have been invited to apply (although I remain dubious of the detail).


The FAI have an appalling record when it comes to fair play, honesty and transparency. It is almost as if they are addicted to manipulation and deception as a primary tactic.

They weren't asked & that's the problem.
As said earlier "Come out & ask all the Premier clubs if they're interested in entering a Reserve / B team in the 1st Division"
If they decide they're not interested then that's fine but at least give them the option.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Limerick... Big resources through their sugar daddy. Progressive club. They just might be interested.



The club are not throwing money around, and the team is operating on a reduced budget for the coming season. There is no way they will pump that much money into putting a reserve team into the FD.

[Ezeikial]

I believe what Dodge is saying, is that the rest of the clubs had every opportunity to apply for it themselves, rather than wait for the FAI to ask them.

Don't see anyone suggesting that all the clubs were invited to apply.

If there as a deadline for applications as Dodge suggested here:


Clubs have until tomorrow to apply.


.....surely it is a reasonable assumption that this deadline has been communicated to the clubs.

If the FAI have the ability to communicate a deadline date, is it not reasonable that they could communicate the general details involved and the criteria needed?

[NeverFeltBetter]

How do we know they didn't?

[Dodge]

Article 5.5 here. All clubs know the deadline

http://www.fai.ie/images/2014_Final_Club_Licensing_Manual.pdf

[nigel-harps1954]

If there as a deadline for applications as Dodge suggested here:



.....surely it is a reasonable assumption that this deadline has been communicated to the clubs.

If the FAI have the ability to communicate a deadline date, is it not reasonable that they could communicate the general details involved and the criteria needed?


The deadline has been known by all around the LOI circles for a while now. It's their own fault if they didn't take the chance to apply.

[galwayhoop]

The club are not throwing money around, and the team is operating on a reduced budget for the coming season. There is no way they will pump that much money into putting a reserve team into the FD.

That's the crux of it really.

If Limerick, who are one of the strongest clubs financially (I haven't insinuated they are throwing money around), would consider it a waste of money. And Cork and Derry probably wouldn't be interested (due to geography and other options like Cobh and USL) then there really isn't too many clubs who would be interested and/or capable of affording it.

Despite the moral indignation on here.

[Ezeikial]

Article 5.5 here. All clubs know the deadline

http://www.fai.ie/images/2014_Final_Club_Licensing_Manual.pdf

It seems my scepticism around your earlier post was well founded

[nigel-harps1954]

Just spotted this on Facebook. Galway FC crest...essentially GUST without the supporters trust bit, but you'd have to let them away with it ;P

Good to see this happening. I suppose they'll announce sponsorship details along with the unveiling of Tommy Dunne. Maybe announce a player or two?


https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1469797_776157865734450_383975223_n.jpg

[gufc2000]

Just spotted this on Facebook. Galway FC crest...essentially GUST without the supporters trust bit, but you'd have to let them away with it ;P

Good to see this happening. I suppose they'll announce sponsorship details along with the unveiling of Tommy Dunne. Maybe announce a player or two?
https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1469797_776157865734450_383975223_n.jpg
Comer Property Group are the main sponsor, that has been secured for the next three years. Some of the backroom team may be revealed on Monday as well

[Charlie Darwin]

Some of the backroom team may be revealed on Monday as well
So there's hope for Stan yet?

[Longfordian]

Comer Property Group are the main sponsor, that has been secured for the next three years. Some of the backroom team may be revealed on Monday as well

Any DVDs prepared?

[A face]

I believe what Dodge is saying, is that the rest of the clubs had every opportunity to apply for it themselves, rather than wait for the FAI to ask them.

Don't see anyone suggesting that all the clubs were invited to apply.

Look, its the FAI trying to get out of a shambolic situation by having new teams enter the league so it doesn't look like an absolute farce of a league. So that needs new teams who either apply themselves or there is an invite communicated to all the existing Premier Div clubs outlining that there is a new option available to them, a reserve team in the first div. This communication was never made. Its not an option (after the horse has bolted) to refer to the standard club application deadline and say 'oh well, because you didn't think of the idea of fielding a reserve team (something that was scraped something like ten years ago), and the fact that you've missed the deadline anyway, then its your problem." ..... That is comedy sketch stuff, gift grub/apres match kind of material. Its beyond ridiculous if we're expected to leave this fly for something that is going to resolve the problems within the league. It actually doesn't matter which way it falls now, its already been mismanaged, and the credibility and belief in the management team just went out the window after it.

Tin pot league, tin pot management and everyone just has to put up with it. We hear stories of mismanaged clubs and leagues from far off lands on 'Off the Ball' and you say to yourself "at least we're not that bad", when in actual fact its practically the same except no one gets shot and no club has the money to pay for a huge league-winning bribe. And to just assume that teams cant afford to field a reserve team as a plausible get out clause for not communicating the options available is like something from the Monty Python reunion tour with two bald men fighting over a comb, and a big foot just lands on the two of team .... shouldn't clubs be at least asked that something has changed in the last year, in that clubs have the reserve team option, rather than trying to second guess what would work as a get out of jail for the FAI, laugh or cry stuff. They made a pigs ear of the first division but the 'fudged out to the max' solution we have for it we'll keep them in the dark and second guessing, that'll teach them for trying to sort us out !!!

[NeverFeltBetter]

Look, its the FAI trying to get out of a shambolic situation by having new teams enter the league so it doesn't look like an absolute farce of a league. So that needs new teams who either apply themselves or there is an invite communicated to all the existing Premier Div clubs outlining that there is a new option available to them, a reserve team in the first div. This communication was never made. Its not an option (after the horse has bolted) to refer to the standard club application deadline and say 'oh well, because you didn't think of the idea of fielding a reserve team (something that was scraped something like ten years ago), and the fact that you've missed the deadline anyway, then its your problem." ..... That is comedy sketch stuff, gift grub/apres match kind of material. Its beyond ridiculous if we're expected to leave this fly for something that is going to resolve the problems within the league. It actually doesn't matter which way it falls now, its already been mismanaged, and the credibility and belief in the management team just went out the window after it.

Tin pot league, tin pot management and everyone just has to put up with it. We hear stories of mismanaged clubs and leagues from far off lands on 'Off the Ball' and you say to yourself "at least we're not that bad", when in actual fact its practically the same except no one gets shot and no club has the money to pay for a huge league-winning bribe. And to just assume that teams cant afford to field a reserve team as a plausible get out clause for not communicating the options available is like something from the Monty Python reunion tour with two bald men fighting over a comb, and a big foot just lands on the two of team .... shouldn't clubs be at least asked that something has changed in the last year, in that clubs have the reserve team option, rather than trying to second guess what would work as a get out of jail for the FAI, laugh or cry stuff. They made a pigs ear of the first division but the 'fudged out to the max' solution we have for it we'll keep them in the dark and second guessing, that'll teach them for trying to sort us out !!!

Are we absolutely sure about this?

[galwayhoop]

In all sincerity can anyone name a club who would consider entering a second team in the first division?

Or are we all moaning about not being asked to a dance we are unavailable to attend in the first place??

I fear it is the latter.

[A face]

In all sincerity can anyone name a club who would consider entering a second team in the first division?

Cork City FC

[Macy]

Cork City FC
Sure don't you have Cobh - loaning players to another clubs is the exact same as keeping them in the club structures, having them available to the 1st team, being able to scrape your U19's to offset the cost of a B team...


Or are we all moaning about not being asked to a dance we are unavailable to attend in the first place??

I fear it is the latter.
I think it's a crap idea for the first division. However, it is perfectly acceptable to be annoyed at another underhand move by the FAI. The process should've been open and transparent. The conditions and benefits of a B team should be open and transparent. The rules regarding player movements should be open and transparent and clear.

Some of ye are displaying Stockholm syndrome in giving the FAI a pass on this - so what if no other club isn't in a position to enter a B team (we won't know until they're fecking asked), the process is a major part of the problem.

1st division clubs should also have been consulted - 7 would've been a joke, 8 with 1 B team entered in this way isn't much better.

[Ezeikial]

In all sincerity can anyone name a club who would consider entering a second team in the first division?





The number of clubs interested would be likely to fluctuate significantly depending on the arrangements and criteria, in particular
* Movement of players between teams
* Suspension of licencing requirement for an U-19 team
* League Entry fee

Each of the above potentially would have an impact on the finances required. The smaller the cost the more the number of clubs who would be interested.

The main point still remains that the FAI should have stated the criteria in advance and invited applications from all clubs

[bennocelt]

In all sincerity can anyone name a club who would consider entering a second team in the first division?

Or are we all moaning about not being asked to a dance we are unavailable to attend in the first place??

I fear it is the latter.

Could have let Mervue and Salthill have another year in the first, both well managed clubs, without bending the knee to GUST/Galway FC
This reserve team idea is a joke, another FAIlure

[gormacha]

Could have let Mervue and Salthill have another year in the first, both well managed clubs, without bending the knee to GUST/Galway FC
This reserve team idea is a joke, another FAIlure

Couldn't agree more.

My only issue with that would be that Mervue would probably have handed us our ar5es again.

[disgruntled]

2017

A FAIlure once again



Would you buy a used car from this man ?

[micls]

Cork City FC

If by consider you mean have a quick chat about it and immediately rule it out due to cost, then sure.

[gufcfan]

Could have let Mervue and Salthill have another year in the first, both well managed clubs, without bending the knee to GUST/Galway FC
This reserve team idea is a joke, another FAIlure

The knee was not bent to GUST. They were ignored and continue to be.

[KBurke]

Should this b team farce go ahead, how would it work. If players play for the b team does that mean they can't play for the rovers first team should there be some kind of injury crisis etc

[Charlie Darwin]

We don't know how it works because we don't even know if it will happen at all.

[Terry]

Could have let Mervue and Salthill have another year in the first, both well managed clubs, without bending the knee to GUST/Galway FCThis reserve team idea is a joke, another FAIlure

There was no knee bending at all as this is what they both wanted anyway. Mervue is a well managed club winning left right and centre across junior and juvenile levels (15 leagues/cups won last year) but the members didn't want to stay in the league and want the club to concentrate on there successful underage structure. Salthill on the other hand have fallen to the wayside with only the womens teams with any kind of success. There main team outside of LOI, the mens junior team were relegated last season, mainly due to the lack of players (for one match they had only 9 players available, with 3 reserve keepers playing outfield rolls).

[bennocelt]

There was no knee bending at all as this is what they both wanted anyway. Mervue is a well managed club winning left right and centre across junior and juvenile levels (15 leagues/cups won last year) but the members didn't want to stay in the league and want the club to concentrate on there successful underage structure. Salthill on the other hand have fallen to the wayside with only the womens teams with any kind of success. There main team outside of LOI, the mens junior team were relegated last season, mainly due to the lack of players (for one match they had only 9 players available, with 3 reserve keepers playing outfield rolls).

But you got what you want? A Galway United team playing out of Terryland. I know both other teams wanted out, but we all knew that for a long time and so did the FAI. Jesus even a whole season to try and get some other team up to the challenge. If not then should have left it.

[legendz]

If a B team is being allowed to enter the first division, there should be more information from the FAI as to the criteria for any club to enter a B team. Though they do fudge, information on criteria is usually provided publicly via a press release or statement on their website.

[Terry]

But you got what you want? A Galway United team playing out of Terryland. I know both other teams wanted out, but we all knew that for a long time and so did the FAI. Jesus even a whole season to try and get some other team up to the challenge. If not then should have left it.

But your thinking about on the pitch, everything about football in Galway has always been about off field politics

[republican]

how can people say that the b team idea is a joke?? in spain and germany b teams play in the division below the top tier or even the next league. youngsters who are not good enough for 1st team yet playing a real game of football every week with all the pressures of relegation and so forth. this is not the case in england and look at the difference in player production in those countries. if rovers or st pats or cork had a bteam in the loi 1st division it would be quality for their younger players to be playing waterford, galway, longford every week. wakey wakey people.

[Martinho II]

saw in paper today that Galway FC confirmed that they are interested in signin some of the Mervue Salthill squad from last season.

[ATFC-1887]

Don't know if its been asked/answered on here already. But just say Rovers B finish top. Will they go down as champions and get the trophy or will it go to second place? And would second place get the automatic promotion spot and 3rd and 4th get the playoffs?

[Longfordian]

Don't know if its been asked/answered on here already. But just say Rovers B finish top. Will they go down as champions and get the trophy or will it go to second place? And would second place get the automatic promotion spot and 3rd and 4th get the playoffs?

None of us have a clue about any of this! We probably won't find out unless it actually happens either. The logical thing would be that they go down as champions but the promotion spot goes to the next team but this is the LOI.