A 7-team league First Division Next Year

[bennocelt]

dodge no offence but I remember in 2001 all of the talk about Mullingar Town joining the league and in the end Kildare Co edged them out.. Surely Mullingar Town were in the same divisions 12 yrs ago or was the reason they were contenders cos they had strong financial backing at that time??:confused:


They had (and still have) good solid financial backing if pushed. But they applied twice and were denied twice, despite doing fairly ok in the under 21 league, and having a ground. Since then both teams in Mullingar have left the Leinster Senior League, the appetite is way gone, and now games against Kinnegad and Clara Town are considered big games!:mad:

[cheifo]

Anyone else hearing it will be a 8 team division? Haven't heard who new team is but Carlow has been suggested.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Suggested by who?

[nigel-harps1954]

By chiefo of course.

[bennocelt]

Speculation on net that FAI are going to announce an 8th team soon!!! Carlow Town perhaps?

[NeverFeltBetter]

From where? Sources people, otherwise its meaningless chatter.

[bennocelt]

From where? Sources people, otherwise its meaningless chatter.

Sorry -got it from the LOI blog on the net
https://www.facebook.com/TheLOIBLOG

[NeverFeltBetter]

It will take a lot more than a website redesign to make me trust those guys on anything.

[Trainee]

Speculation on net that FAI are going to announce an 8th team soon!!! Carlow Town perhaps?

Shamrock rovers reserves is what I heard, We simply wont know till fixtures are out

[passinginterest]

Shamrock rovers reserves is what I heard, We simply wont know till fixtures are out
That backs up what I had heard also.

[avvenalaf]

]Shamrock rovers reserves is what I heard[/B], We simply wont know till fixtures are out

Wow!. Sligo Rovers to have a third team in the league?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I have noticed a handful of people on LOI FB pages and Twitter say "FC Carlow", but without any kind of source or backing for the statement. I was given to understand that the club was, post-A Championship, operating a very low level, with no website, no operating social media and no contact information available anywhere. Where are they currently competing? What ground are they using? Does it meet the requirements? These are the questions you ask before repeating "I heard its FC Carlow!"

[Longfordian]

Carlow IT has some kind of a dedicated football course, wouldn't be shocked if they were invited in in some capacity.

[A face]

Shamrock rovers reserves is what I heard, We simply wont know till fixtures are out

Being honest, if that were true then i think its just not on. All LOI Clubs should have been given the option, and bring the First Division to 12 teams. I think it would be an unfair advantage. Right now, the A Championship or a reserve league/reserve team in the first div is exactly what we need.

[bluewhitearmy]

Being honest, if that were true then i think its just not on. All LOI Clubs should have been given the option, and bring the First Division to 12 teams. I think it would be an unfair advantage. Right now, the A Championship or a reserve league/reserve team in the first div is exactly what we need.


Do you know they weren't?

[IrishRossi]

Carlow IT has some kind of a dedicated football course, wouldn't be shocked if they were invited in in some capacity.

yes but if i remeber from my time in the it down there a good few of the lads on the course has contracts with other loi teams

[A face]

Do you know they weren't?

I'd have heard if we were, seriously, this is an issue for us since the U21s was scrapped.

[Acornvilla]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html

Indo seem pretty sure it's Rovers..

[Macy]

According to the Indo, they'll be able to move players between the 1st and reserve teams, and are looking the scrap their U19's. Serious advantage for their premier division team I'd have thought.

Personally, I think having reserves teams in it seriously undermines the credibility of the first team clubs in the 1st division. Also, it will take players away from first division clubs, reducing the standard. Clubs would have no need to put players out on loan, and players would have no need to look to be released for first team football (we'll be particularly hit with Rovers ;) ) - that'll probably impact on the lower clubs in the premier too.

I don't agree with it, but unless the FAI asked all Premier division clubs, I think they'll have issues. Whether they'd want to or not, the FAI should have proper criteria for allowing it. Not bs about the most financially stable - proper criteria. Are Rovers even that financially stable? If they have another crap year will they have to pull the reserve team? Assuming no one else wants to come in, does that leave us back to 7 teams?

[White Horse]

According to the Indo, they'll be able to move players between the 1st and reserve teams, and are looking the scrap their U19's.

The potential for unfair competition is too great, if this is the case.

If Shams are allowed to play any player in their first division team, this could mean promotion contenders playing against vastly different quality line-ups.

[Mr A]

Exactly, will wait for confirmation but these rumours are worrying.

[Macy]

The potential for unfair competition is too great, if this is the case.

If Shams are allowed to play any player in their first division team, this could mean promotion contenders playing against vastly different quality line-ups.
My take from the Indo article is that any player can move between the teams, with the limited number on any given weekend. I was more thinking on the unfairness on other premier clubs, but you're right, it could really impact the first. The 1st team gets knocked out of the cup, and so has a free weekend - is the reserve team going to be packed with their top players?

[prince20]

Im hearing its a maximum of 3 first team players in any game with a grading system in place. From what I understand of the grading system it would mean that if you play a certain number of games (possibly 5) with the firsts you may not be eligible for the reserves but im not exactly sure so dont take this as accurate. There will be a grading system in place though.

[Ezeikial]

The FAI have made some incredibly arrogant and clearly inequitable decisions in the past in relation to LOI. This one, if implemented as the Indo suggests, would be the most outrageous since the IAG debacle

[White Horse]

The first division is a competitive league with a small number of teams.

Including a team who are not participating competitively but rather using it for development purposes is fundamentally contradictory and has the potential to distort results.

[Neish]

Don't agree with this if it is indeed true but its better than a 7 team division. A few of question however

1. Will Rovers have to pay the regular fee to enter the reserve side in the league
2. Will they be playing their home games in Tallaght.
3. If the FAI are going down this road why not get another two teams and make it a 10 team division

[Dodge]

3. If the FAI are going down this road why not get another two teams and make it a 10 team division

Finding 2 clubs willing to spend €80-100k to fund these teams is the main issue I'd have thought. I know other clubs have talked about it in the recent past but it is a lot of money when the new team has no income streams of it's own.

I'm not against these teams in the league but there has to be strict rules regarding movement between the two. They should be treated as two separate teams, with movement between the two only in the windows. That's how it operates in Spain etc

[Macy]

Finding 2 clubs willing to spend €80-100k to fund these teams is the main issue I'd have thought. I know other clubs have talked about it in the recent past but it is a lot of money when the new team has no income streams of it's own.

I'm not against these teams in the league but there has to be strict rules regarding movement between the two. They should be treated as two separate teams, with movement between the two only in the windows. That's how it operates in Spain etc
If they could offset the cost of the U19's though, if Rovers are allowed to scrap theirs, that might be the difference between clubs doing it or not. It looks like their going for much more relaxed movement between the two, rather than your spanish example, so it wouldn't be a whole new squad - the basis would be the fringe players of the first team.

However, The main point is the option should've been there for all clubs, along with the clear criteria for allowing it. Whether clubs then take up that option isn't really relevant. That could be why they're leaking it now though - flush out the other clubs and then call their bluff on entry. We can't be expecting the FAI to be open and transparent...

[Bawnville Hoop]

The first division standard is muck.

Rovers will match the crowds,
Match the standard,
Match the costs.

It suits Rovers and it suits the FAI. Colin Hawkins was appointed U19 manager last week, this explains it.

[avvenalaf]

Just a thought - what happens if Shams are relegated? Stop sniggering down the back.

[nigel-harps1954]

Will a Shamrock Rovers reserve team really attract any crowds of around 500 people a game to be able to sustain this team?
Will the games be played in Tallaght?

[Bawnville Hoop]

Will a Shamrock Rovers reserve team really attract any crowds of around 500 people a game to be able to sustain this team?
Will the games be played in Tallaght?

The U19's currently play Saturdays at 2pm in Tallaght Stadium. I would imagine Saturday night in Tallaght will now be the fixed date.

I honestly think they will attract that, when they were in the A championship there were ~200 at the games and now being the first division I can see that figure doubling.

[nigel-harps1954]

I honestly think they will attract that, when they were in the A championship there were ~200 at the games and now being the first division I can see that figure doubling.

I'm not so sure. Shamrock Rovers first team struggled to get much more than 500 at times in the First Division.

[Dodge]

I honestly think they will attract that, when they were in the A championship there were ~200 at the games and now being the first division I can see that figure doubling.

Those games were free. Will the new B team charge in?

[Bawnville Hoop]

I'm not so sure. Shamrock Rovers first team struggled to get much more than 500 at times in the First Division.


Those games were free. Will the new B team charge in?

I can see if being free for members and possibly season ticket holders. Charge should be no more than 5 euro. The goal is not to make money on gates but rather develop players.

If the above is in place I can see such a crowd sustainable.

[nigel-harps1954]

Isn't there a minimum admission fee for League of Ireland football?

[Bawnville Hoop]

Isn't there a minimum admission fee for League of Ireland football?

Only one I can think of is Cup games having to match domestic prices. I can see the FAI making exceptions for such a team even if the minimum was set to 10 euros.

[nigel-harps1954]

Only one I can think of is Cup games having to match domestic prices. I can see the FAI making exceptions for such a team even if the minimum was set to 10 euros.

I don't care if it's a reserve team or not, this team should not be allowed to bend any rules. They should be treated the exact same as any other club in the league.
Not complaining, I wouldn't mind only having to pay a fiver into a game, but if this team are allowed exceptions to rules, then it'll descend into all sorts of a farce.

[oriel]

Isn't there a minimum admission fee for League of Ireland football?

No idea but Dundalk have come up with a maximum one for 2014.

[Mr A]

You have to laugh at the logic:

Problem: Two teams in Galway is too many.
Solution: Replace them with a new entity, make up the shortfall by brining in a new team from an existing club.

Real progress there.

[galwayhoop]

If the choice is between 7 teams or having 8 or more by including 'B' sides then I'd be voting for 'B' sides every time.

However, as said above about the Spanish clubs, the B team should be treated as a separate club with movement only through transfers in the designated windows. Anything else is an absolute jokeshop.

[harps1954]

Isn't there a minimum admission fee for League of Ireland football?

There is indeed. It's in the Participation Agreement iirc.

Also, couple of questions:

1) Does this 'new' team have to pay the First Division League entry fee (€10k) - if not, why do other FD clubs have to pay it. Also, if not, was this option given to other 'new' clubs who may have expressed an interest in joining the league?

2) If a player is sent off for Shams first-team on a Friday night, can he serve his suspension in the 'B' team game on the following night if movement is allowed freely between one team and another? If he can't serve his suspension in the 'B' team game, does that mean he can play in the 'B' team game while he serves his suspensions. If it's a 3 game ban, what games does it cover - first team, B team? Lets say a players gets a three game ban for violent conduct playing for Rovers first-team in a game against Bohs. Where does he serve his suspension? It is three first team games? Does that mean that he can play for the 'B' team during this three game ban? Or does it mean it's a combination of the two games - which could be two first-team and one 'B' team or vice versa - or does it mean he can't play for either team until he serves the ban in three first team games.

3) If two teams was too many for the City of Galway, who are two teams representing the one club any better?

4) If what is being reported is true, why will Rovers will allowed to break one of the Licensing rules and not have to play a team in the u-19 league?

I agree with one of the posters above - the 'new' team should be seen as a stand alone club (i.e. players are registered for this club and can only move during the transfer window). Surely if Rovers are saying that this team is for developing players, then use the developing players in it. It shouldn't be used as a means to give players returning from injury or suspension some match practice - they same option isn't available to other clubs that just have a first-team and u-19 team.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A really pitiful solution to the First Division problem.

[deiseach]

The article in the Indo (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html) about this story could be a Rovers press release. I'm not saying they should pour scorn on the idea, but a little more interrogation would have been nice.

[bluewhitearmy]

A really pitiful solution to the First Division problem.


If there was no other teams willing to come in what could they have done other then leave it at 7?

[eitoof]

The article in the Indo (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html) about this story could be a Rovers press release. I'm not saying they should pour scorn on the idea, but a little more interrogation would have been nice.

From the article "What still needs to be clarified, however, is the precise number of players who are allowed to move from the first-team to the second XI on any given weekend."

The answer to that should be zero.

[SkStu]

This is outrageous. Ha! So shady how it's only being revealed now and in this way.

Reserve teams are a viable option for a small league like ours but it needs to be thought out properly, based on transparency of criteria and process so open to all. When will we ever learn? Wow.

[deiseach]

If there was no other teams willing to come in what could they have done other then leave it at 7?

We have a 12 team division and a 7 team division, and the only solution to the lack of teams in the latter is to carve out a new team from one of the 12? If this team were genuinely autonomous of Shamrock Rovers, i.e. no switching panels within the season and the same rules of membership that apply to the other First Division teams applying to Rovers B, then I could see it working. But you just know that there will be all manner of sweet fudge made to allow this to happen, and that's why it's pitiful.

[Dalymountrower]

Only one I can think of is Cup games having to match domestic prices. I can see the FAI making exceptions for such a team even if the minimum was set to 10 euros.

Of course the FAI will make an exception for you. You are both well matched.

My cup of dislike for your club runneth over,

[Bawnville Hoop]

Flora Tallinn have 3 teams throughout the Estonian leagues. The players move to and from, this is obviously a rule by Uefa set in stone to allow this happen therefore clubs have no exception to Rovers doing this.