Under-19 Squad

[tetsujin1979]

The only possible defence of Celtic I could offer here is that they probably didn't destroy Afolabi - he was never as good as he was made out to be, he just had a big physical advantage at underage level that didn't exist at senior level. Southampton saw that and released him.

Other than that though, yes they've been a disaster for Irish players. Even someone like Barry Coffey - he was highly rated leaving Ireland, a few years at Celtic left him in a place where he didn't exactly tear up any trees at Cliftonville. Maybe that was always his level but we'll never know how good he might have been had he gone to a club with a better youth setup.

Their handling of Connell has been particularly dreadful - left him sitting there for 18 months and then sent him to the Scottish fourth division. Incredible mismanagement of the player's development.

I know next to nothing about Lawal but he mustn't have felt he was anywhere near to getting a shot at Watford if he has left just as they've been promoted. Only hope for him now if that he might be already ready for the first team (unlikely, I know). If he needs further development of his game through coaching and suitable reserve football he won't get that at Celtic.

Southampton had offered him a new contract and he rejected it.

[CSAD]

The only possible defence of Celtic I could offer here is that they probably didn't destroy Afolabi - he was never as good as he was made out to be, he just had a big physical advantage at underage level that didn't exist at senior level. Southampton saw that and released him.

Other than that though, yes they've been a disaster for Irish players. Even someone like Barry Coffey - he was highly rated leaving Ireland, a few years at Celtic left him in a place where he didn't exactly tear up any trees at Cliftonville. Maybe that was always his level but we'll never know how good he might have been had he gone to a club with a better youth setup.

Their handling of Connell has been particularly dreadful - left him sitting there for 18 months and then sent him to the Scottish fourth division. Incredible mismanagement of the player's development.

I know next to nothing about Lawal but he mustn't have felt he was anywhere near to getting a shot at Watford if he has left just as they've been promoted. Only hope for him now if that he might be already ready for the first team (unlikely, I know). If he needs further development of his game through coaching and suitable reserve football he won't get that at Celtic.

I definitely disagree on Afolabi, not sure how far he would have go but I do know from the rumors that he went from not being far off making the match day squad to barley coping at Dundee…


The one bit of hope I have here in regards to Lawal is Celtic appear to have gone after him whereas the others were free agents/ at a mess of a club. My expectations are low, and not because of Lawal but because I don’t trust Celtic to get the best out of him.

[kennedmc]

I’d question who on earth is advising these kids, how many potential Irish careers do Celtic need to destroy before these players get in their heads to avoid Celtic like the plague?

They destroyed Afolabi, seemed a decent prospect before he went there, they are in the process of destroy Lee O’Connor and who knows what they will do to Luca Connell next.

My only hope is maybe they see his potential and will sign him as a first team player.

What a load of rubbish and I'm not even a Celtic fan. Nobody at Celtic or any other club is out to destroy our players.

O'Connor and Afolabi have been underwhelming at best on their loan moves - they are miles off the Celtic first team based on their level over the last season or 2. Connell still has a shed load to prove considering he is playing at Scottish League 2/ league 3 level.

The players themselves chose to move to Celtic based on the fact they probably offered them the best contract at the time.

I saw last season when16 yo Evan Ferguson was playing for Brighton u23s, Ben Woodburn was playing for Liverpool U23s in the same game. I laughed to myself and imagined if Woodburn was Irish the outrage and anger on here about how Woodburn's career had been mismanaged because of....insert bullsh!t excuse here..

Load of promising youngsters around but time is a true leveler for talent!

That's why 17/18 year olds that aren't on our radar now will probably be in the Ireland team in 10 years time when other high profile players will be playing away in league 1/2 etc (No disgrace in that by the way)

[seanfhear]

What a load of rubbish and I'm not even a Celtic fan. Nobody at Celtic or any other club is out to destroy our players.

O'Connor and Afolabi have been underwhelming at best on their loan moves - they are miles off the Celtic first team based on their level over the last season or 2. Connell still has a shed load to prove considering he is playing at Scottish League 2/ league 3 level.

The players themselves chose to move to Celtic based on the fact they probably offered them the best contract at the time.

I saw last season when16 yo Evan Ferguson was playing for Brighton u23s, Ben Woodburn was playing for Liverpool U23s in the same game. I laughed to myself and imagined if Woodburn was Irish the outrage and anger on here about how Woodburn's career had been mismanaged because of....insert bullsh!t excuse here..

Load of promising youngsters around but time is a true leveler for talent!

That's why 17/18 year olds that aren't on our radar now will probably be in the Ireland team in 10 years time when other high profile players will be playing away in league 1/2 etc (No disgrace in that by the way)
Why would any club be damaging potentially valuable players ? The reality is most of them are probably not good enough as are I suppose up on 95% of players.

[kennedmc]

Why would any club be damaging potentially valuable players ? The reality is most of them are probably not good enough as are I suppose up on 95% of players.
Exactly. I see people ask why do so many of OUR players don't make it when they are promising youngsters? But its not just Irish players - it is all players as you point out.

[CSAD]

What a load of rubbish and I'm not even a Celtic fan. Nobody at Celtic or any other club is out to destroy our players.

O'Connor and Afolabi have been underwhelming at best on their loan moves - they are miles off the Celtic first team based on their level over the last season or 2. Connell still has a shed load to prove considering he is playing at Scottish League 2/ league 3 level.

The players themselves chose to move to Celtic based on the fact they probably offered them the best contract at the time.

I saw last season when16 yo Evan Ferguson was playing for Brighton u23s, Ben Woodburn was playing for Liverpool U23s in the same game. I laughed to myself and imagined if Woodburn was Irish the outrage and anger on here about how Woodburn's career had been mismanaged because of....insert bullsh!t excuse here..

Load of promising youngsters around but time is a true leveler for talent!

That's why 17/18 year olds that aren't on our radar now will probably be in the Ireland team in 10 years time when other high profile players will be playing away in league 1/2 etc (No disgrace in that by the way)

They aren’t out to destroy, they are just terrible at bringing through young players unless you come with good experience already.

And that’s all on Celtic, their job was to improve them as players and in the end they have had the opposite effect. Luca came as a championship player and 2 years later he’s playing 2nd/3rd division in Scotland…no better example of Celtic and nurturing their youth.

Yeh and that was a big mistake on their part and I worry Bosun has fallen into the same trap, I don’t know what he’s thinking, he must have been given a promise of first team opportunities.

No If he was Irish we would say exactly what he said about Masterson, that he stayed too long playing PL2 football and it’s held him back as a result and that he should be on loan years ago.

Celtic have a history of mismanaging youth and basically as long as you are Tierney or someone of that level it is rare you

[CSAD]

Exactly. I see people ask why do so many of OUR players don't make it when they are promising youngsters? But its not just Irish players - it is all players as you point out.

Celtic have a history of this, there is a difference. There’s a reason we kick up a fuss when Celtic sign an Irish player but not another club.

[seanfhear]

They aren’t out to destroy, they are just terrible at bringing through young players unless you come with good experience already.

And that’s all on Celtic, their job was to improve them as players and in the end they have had the opposite effect. Luca came as a championship player and 2 years later he’s playing 2nd/3rd division in Scotland…no better example of Celtic and nurturing their youth.

Yeh and that was a big mistake on their part and I worry Bosun has fallen into the same trap, I don’t know what he’s thinking, he must have been given a promise of first team opportunities.

No If he was Irish we would say exactly what he said about Masterson, that he stayed too long playing PL2 football and it’s held him back as a result and that he should be on loan years ago.

Celtic have a history of mismanaging youth and basically as long as you are Tierney or someone of that level it is rare you
Wasn’t Luca playing for Bolton at the time who had no Money and No Players and were probably not playing some of the players they had because they would have to pay them more for reaching a certain number of appearances ~ sometimes there is more to a story than meets they eye.

Maybe Celtic cannot compete to sign the better younger players just as they cannot compete to sign the better first team players. Don’t Celtic have some Scottish Players that they have brought through. Maybe they were just better players.

[Olé Olé]

Sounds like Watford offered a year plus a year option contract to Lawal. Celtic are giving him three years.

[CSAD]

Wasn’t Luca playing for Bolton at the time who had no Money and No Players and were probably not playing some of the players they had because they would have to pay them more for reaching a certain number of appearances ~ sometimes there is more to a story than meets they eye.

Maybe Celtic cannot compete to sign the better younger players just as they cannot compete to sign the better first team players. Don’t Celtic have some Scottish Players that they have brought through. Maybe they were just better players.

The only one they brought through was Tierney pretty much all the rest came through somewhere else and were bought by Celtic, or maybe Celtic are actually the problem here, it’s quite incredible how a supposedly big club bring such little through, Irish players would actually be better off going to Hibernian or Aberdeen to develop before going to Celtic as god knows Celtic would bother bringing them through. You’ve obviously got afew that might come through but it appears those few are exceptions rather than the rule.

Ryan Christie - 54 matches at Inverness before signing for Celtic

Armstrong - 126 matches at Dundee before joining Celtic

Griffiths - 170+ matches at various clubs before joining Celtic

Greg Taylor - 111 games for Kilmarnock

[CSAD]

The only one they brought through was Tierney pretty much all the rest came through somewhere else and were bought by Celtic, or maybe Celtic are actually the problem here, it’s quite incredible how a supposedly big club bring such little through, Irish players would actually be better off going to Hibernian or Aberdeen to develop before going to Celtic as god knows Celtic would bother bringing them through. You’ve obviously got afew that might come through but it appears those few are exceptions rather than the rule.

Ryan Christie - 54 matches at Inverness before signing for Celtic

Armstrong - 126 matches at Dundee before joining Celtic

Griffiths - 170+ matches at various clubs before joining Celtic

Greg Taylor - 111 games for Kilmarnock


Having said all this too be fair if you look at the likes of mcgregor and Tierney what they both have in common is they didn’t come through during the 2010-2014 season’s or the 2019-2021 season’s that Lennon was in charge so possibly that has played a role in so little youngsters from the underage set up getting a look in, maybe that will change under the new manager so let’s hope so.

[Exgrad]

Southampton had offered him a new contract and he rejected it.

Not according to the man himself:

https://www.the42.ie/jonathan-afolabi-interview-4698504-Jun2019/


Towards the end of the most recent English football season, however, the 19-year-old was told he was surplus to requirements at Southampton.
“It was a bit of a shock, because I thought I was doing well. They saw other aspects and probably favoured someone else. I’m not in control of that.
“All I can do is keep doing what I’m doing and end up at the right club.

“[Mentality is] a very big part of it. When I was told [about being released], you could be down for the next few days, you wouldn’t feel yourself, but I chose to stay in for the rest of the day. I finished off the day as normal, on the same time as the rest of the boys. We cleaned up and did our boots. It did hurt, but it’s just another stepping stone. I’m still young and I have time to make amends in a way.
“If I did wrong there, I can fix it somewhere else. It’s only the start.”

[Razors left peg]

Celtic bring through a lot of young players but it is a massive club and you have to be exceptional to make the breakthrough.

I think some players have gone there in the expectation that its only Scotland so they should be able to get into the 1st team easily. Celtic dont sign players for 40 or 50 Million but they sign lots of guys who are good pros with plenty of international caps for 5-10 Million. Its not easy for young players to get regular football ahead of guys like that unless they are really proving themselves every day at training or when they get a cameo appearance here and there. Afolabi needed to go on loan to the Scottish Championship and score 20 goals if he wanted to be Celtic 1st team material, he can hardly get a game there. Lee O'Conor I think physically is not ready yet, he seemed to have a decent 2nd half of last season with Tranmere and is growing into mens football so I wouldnt rule him out yet because he seems to be a good young pro. Connell can look flashy at times but hes a bit one paced from what Ive seen so again, its hard to get in ahead of guys who have 20 or 30 caps for their country.

Now, in the last couple of years Lennon has run the club horrifically so the underage players might have a better shot with the new manager. But when they get a chance they have to take it. I remember Oko Flex coming on in a game last year and looking so far out of place. Im still amazed he got a move to West Ham.

I've been as guilty as anyone of blaming clubs for underage players not getting a proper chance. I did it will Millwall and Ipswich last year for Parrott, I complained about Brightons handling of Connolly at times, and plenty of others. But for the most part I was wrong. Players have a massive amount of personal responsibility. They are given endless opportunities to impress managers in training every day. Yes, sometimes luck with injuries plays a factor, but sometimes injuries are a result of the player not looking after himself properly. Connolly and Obafemi come to mind especially for that.

If Lawal goes to Celtic with the right attitude and work ethic he will get in the 1st team if he also has the talent

[Eirambler]

Not according to the man himself:

https://www.the42.ie/jonathan-afolabi-interview-4698504-Jun2019/

Thanks for digging that out, I was sure he was released alright but was starting to doubt myself there!

Lennon obviously didn't help things but there's more to the Celtic problem than just just him, so him going won't solve all that much.

First issue - how are young players supposed to develop in the youth setup when they rarely get the chance to play against players of a similar or better standard at that level? Apart from a few games against their city rivals the standard of youth teams in Scotland isn't good enough to help players develop. Celtic quit the Scottish youth setup for this reason but switched to hardly playing anyone at all, which was useless. Now they're putting the B team in the lowland league which, again given the standard, will be fairly useless. Shamrock Rovers II were getting better games last year than Celtic B will get in the Lowland League.

Secondly, how are players with no senior experience supposed to break through into the senior team when there is no secondary competition for them to be blooded in? Most players that break through in England follow the same path - they get a chance in a league cup game, if they go well there they might get an FA Cup game and if they impress again they'll get a chance in the league. This is possible because English clubs are usually happy to rotate for cup games. For Celtic every cup game is as important as a league game, maybe even more important, so major squad rotation is out, any changes will be experienced players coming in for other experienced players, with next to no hope of the younger lads getting a shot.

A new manager coming in is unlikely to result in a change in either of those issues. Once in a blue moon they'll get a Tierney, who was so good that he'd have broken through at any club. But even then they overplayed him when injured, which has resulted in further persistent injuries for him since leaving the club. Overall Celtic is just a dead end for youth players, not just Irish ones.

[tetsujin1979]

strange, a few reports around the time said he was offered a new deal
https://www.footballinsider247.com/exclusive-southampton-forward-set-to-quit-after-rejecting-new-contract/

Southampton striker Jonathan Afolabi has rejected a new deal at the club and is set to leave on a free transfer, Football Insider understands.
1164133872449310720
1154056501067223041

[CSAD]

Thanks for digging that out, I was sure he was released alright but was starting to doubt myself there!

Lennon obviously didn't help things but there's more to the Celtic problem than just just him, so him going won't solve all that much.

First issue - how are young players supposed to develop in the youth setup when they rarely get the chance to play against players of a similar or better standard at that level? Apart from a few games against their city rivals the standard of youth teams in Scotland isn't good enough to help players develop. Celtic quit the Scottish youth setup for this reason but switched to hardly playing anyone at all, which was useless. Now they're putting the B team in the lowland league which, again given the standard, will be fairly useless. Shamrock Rovers II were getting better games last year than Celtic B will get in the Lowland League.

Secondly, how are players with no senior experience supposed to break through into the senior team when there is no secondary competition for them to be blooded in? Most players that break through in England follow the same path - they get a chance in a league cup game, if they go well there they might get an FA Cup game and if they impress again they'll get a chance in the league. This is possible because English clubs are usually happy to rotate for cup games. For Celtic every cup game is as important as a league game, maybe even more important, so major squad rotation is out, any changes will be experienced players coming in for other experienced players, with next to no hope of the younger lads getting a shot.

A new manager coming in is unlikely to result in a change in either of those issues. Once in a blue moon they'll get a Tierney, who was so good that he'd have broken through at any club. But even then they overplayed him when injured, which has resulted in further persistent injuries for him since leaving the club. Overall Celtic is just a dead end for youth players, not just Irish ones.


There is more problems at Celtic, they as a club think they are bigger than they actually are and think they are too good for young up and coming players.

Lennon was the final nail as he refused to give any youth a chance in his last season as it was all about winning the SPL for a 10th time in a row and that was worth canning youth, so glad that Celtic didn’t win anything after that performance.

You probably won’t find a Scottish international that was brought through by Lennon at Celtic, any that got experience had a full season at another club under their belt.

I genuinely would rather if Lawal signed for Hibernian or someone like that.

When you have issues with the develop league like Celtic have then you need a manager who promotes youth and that can help fast track the youth in the squad, Neil Lennon was beyond hopeless at this which meant Celtic had no chance of bringing anyone through.

[CSAD]

One source on Twitter has said Chelsea have tried to swoop in for Lawal at the last minute but have supposedly failed. That was the chance to save his potential career >:(

Also another source says Norwich and a unnamed Serie A side wanted him aswell.

[zero]

One source on Twitter has said Chelsea have tried to swoop in for Lawal at the last minute but have supposedly failed. That was the chance to save his potential career >:(

Also another source says Norwich and a unnamed Serie A side wanted him aswell.

That is a shame. No fan of chelsea and their policy is pretty extreme but they had 32 (!) players out on loan last season across the globe. Celtic seem to stick to lower league Scottish teams.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-32-chelsea-players-out-on-loan-in-2020-21-and-how-theyve-been-faring/

[CSAD]

That is a shame. No fan of chelsea and their policy is pretty extreme but they had 32 (!) players out on loan last season across the globe. Celtic seem to stick to lower league Scottish teams.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-32-chelsea-players-out-on-loan-in-2020-21-and-how-theyve-been-faring/

Chelsea though atleast have changed their ways and are much more willing to give youth a chance, if Lawal isn’t in the first team plans yet at Chelsea atleast we’ll know it’s for his own best interests. At Celtic they will never give him a proper look in, he might aswell sign for Bohemians than sign for Celtic, at Boh’s he’ll be in or around the first team and will likely get a run out in the premier division whereas at Celtic he would be playing for the colt team most likely who play in the 5th division of Scottish football.

[Exgrad]

I wouldn't read anything more into the Chelsea and Serie A connections than an agent trying to raise his profile as he joins Celtic. He'll have seen how other Irish players sank without trace there.

[seanfhear]

I wouldn't read anything more into the Chelsea and Serie A connections that an agent trying to raise his profile as he joins Celtic. He'll have see how other Irish players sank without trace there.
It’s got Agent Hype written all over it. If these players were good enough they would almost certainly be going somewhere better than Celtic. Ok, the odd one should come through but the reality is most of them are probably not good enough to be at a better place than Celtic. The Idea that Football / Any Football Clubs are letting Great Talent slip through their fingers is bordering on laughable. When you see how much that rare diamond is worth then that makes no sense.

If Celtic wee that terrible then the odd fella that left Celtic would go on to be World beaters = = How often has that happened. Actually Celtic are probably gambling on getting the Odd Shock through. Some of the English Premiership clubs are paying eye watering wages to some young fellas and ironically enough that is possibly why they don’t make it = Too much too soon.

[tetsujin1979]

It’s got Agent Hype written all over it. If these players were good enough they would almost certainly be going somewhere better than Celtic. Ok, the odd one should come through but the reality is most of them are probably not good enough to be at a better place than Celtic. The Idea that Football / Any Football Clubs are letting Great Talent slip through their fingers is bordering on laughable. When you see how much that rare diamond is worth then that makes no sense.

If Celtic wee that terrible then the odd fella that left Celtic would go on to be World beaters = = How often has that happened. Actually Celtic are probably gambling on getting the Odd Shock through. Some of the English Premiership clubs are paying eye watering wages to some young fellas and ironically enough that is possibly why they don’t make it = Too much too soon.

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.

[Razors left peg]

Just listened to Ger O'Brien who is head of the academy at St Pats being interviewed on the latest LOI Central Podcast. Well worth a listen to. He talks about the changes needed in Ireland due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18.

I dont think the general public realize the impact that is going to have on player development in the coming years. He makes the point that the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Bazunu would all have not being able to join English clubs until after 18 and how we were already struggling to do well at international level. Without major investment in coaches its going to be a disaster on the horizon.

I know most of us here were probably aware of it but he speaks very well

[seanfhear]

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.
Celtic make a great job of those two. Obviously Van Dijk came already fairly well developed from Holland, I assume.

[Razors left peg]

Celtic make a great job of those two. Obviously Van Dijk came already fairly well developed from Holland, I assume.

Dembele also was brilliant as a young player there. There has been lots

[seanfhear]

Dembele also was brilliant as a young player there. There has been lots
Who is Dembele with now ? I get a bit confused with the Dembeles. That seems to be a common name.

[CSAD]

Just listened to Ger O'Brien who is head of the academy at St Pats being interviewed on the latest LOI Central Podcast. Well worth a listen to. He talks about the changes needed in Ireland due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18.

I dont think the general public realize the impact that is going to have on player development in the coming years. He makes the point that the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Bazunu would all have not being able to join English clubs until after 18 and how we were already struggling to do well at international level. Without major investment in coaches its going to be a disaster on the horizon.

I know most of us here were probably aware of it but he speaks very well

Most of the best players (he mentions Cathal Heffernan,Adam Murphy and I don’t remember the other name) are on professional deals so would get good level of training or atleast adequate level of training until they turn 18. Didn’t do much harm to Andrew Moran or Sinclair Armstrong so far atleast.

People talk about facilities and all that but what’s more important over everything is more time on a football field, there needs to be a way financially to get these kids more training time to try challenge them and especially the ones in limbo, the ones who may not be ready for a professional deal but may need extra training to get to the level required.

[CSAD]

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.

Van Dijk was developed in Holland, both his Dutch club and Southampton have about as much if not more claim to his success than Celtic.

Every clock is right twice a day, just because one player bucked the trend isn’t going to change the fact that Celtic are dreadful at bringing through youth.

[CSAD]

It’s got Agent Hype written all over it. If these players were good enough they would almost certainly be going somewhere better than Celtic. Ok, the odd one should come through but the reality is most of them are probably not good enough to be at a better place than Celtic. The Idea that Football / Any Football Clubs are letting Great Talent slip through their fingers is bordering on laughable. When you see how much that rare diamond is worth then that makes no sense.

If Celtic wee that terrible then the odd fella that left Celtic would go on to be World beaters = = How often has that happened. Actually Celtic are probably gambling on getting the Odd Shock through. Some of the English Premiership clubs are paying eye watering wages to some young fellas and ironically enough that is possibly why they don’t make it = Too much too soon.

Considering his agent also advised him to go to Watford in the first place would tell me his agent isn’t very good and would tell he has been badly advised on this occasion.

[CSAD]

Just been confirmed of signing for Celtic, and boy he has ****ed up so badly, playing in the 5th division of Scottish football is really going to improve him as a player.

[Paddy Garcia]

Van Dijk was developed in Holland, both his Dutch club and Southampton have about as much if not more claim to his success than Celtic.

Every clock is right twice a day, just because one player bucked the trend isn’t going to change the fact that Celtic are dreadful at bringing through youth.

Though not one running 5 minutes slow

[Charlie Darwin]

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.
I'd dispute Tierney not being world class, to be fair. I know he hasn't played Champions League knockouts but can't imagine it'll be long until he is.

[Eirambler]

Dembele also was brilliant as a young player there. There has been lots

There's no problem with Celtic, or any other Scottish premiership side, as long as players are getting first team football (in the SPL not in the Lowland League). The problem is that Celtic sign so many young players but give so few a genuine shot at first team football compared to English teams of a similar standard (by that I mean upper end Championship teams for the most part).

I've said it before but, if a player wants to maximise his chances at Celtic, he should only go there if they've paid a few million for him. Because then he'll be given a chance if he's any good at all because they'll want to justify the outlay. These young lads that they pick up for around £100k are just free hits for them, maybe one in 10 will make the grade and they'll sell on for millions. What happens to the other nine in the end is their own problem.

Celtic have already made a profit from the Connell, Afolabi, O'Connor and Frimpong signings by selling on Frimpong. If the other three never kick a ball and sit out their contracts it will still have been worthwhile and profitable for Celtic.

Despite the spin I can only assume Lawal has gone there because he has either been badly advised or, quite simply, nobody else offered a multi year deal.

[CSAD]

There's no problem with Celtic, or any other Scottish premiership side, as long as players are getting first team football (in the SPL not in the Lowland League). The problem is that Celtic sign so many young players but give so few a genuine shot at first team football compared to English teams of a similar standard (by that I mean upper end Championship teams for the most part).

I've said it before but, if a player wants to maximise his chances at Celtic, he should only go there if they've paid a few million for him. Because then he'll be given a chance if he's any good at all because they'll want to justify the outlay. These young lads that they pick up for around £100k are just free hits for them, maybe one in 10 will make the grade and they'll sell on for millions. What happens to the other nine in the end is their own problem.

Celtic have already made a profit from the Connell, Afolabi, O'Connor and Frimpong signings by selling on Frimpong. If the other three never kick a ball and sit out their contracts it will still have been worthwhile and profitable for Celtic.

Despite the spin I can only assume Lawal has gone there because he has either been badly advised or, quite simply, nobody else offered a multi year deal.

There is a problem at Celtic when they develop as many internationals as the likes of Dundee United, Inverness, Hibernian etc when they want to consider themselves a “big club”.

Considering Lawal was advised to go to Watford on the first place would indicate to me that he’s been badly advised. I saw a picture recently of Ryan Cassidy, Darragh Burns & Dawson Devoy who all went on trial at Watford, one signed and the other 2 stayed in Ireland, it’s striking how well Dawson Devoy and Darragh Burns look playing mens football at their age yet Cassidy on loan at Accrington Stanly lions totally out of his depth playing men’s football. Probably indicates in itself why Watford was probably not a wise move for Lawal and because of that it doesn’t really surprise me that he’s been badly advised about going to Celtic.

[Olé Olé]

How do you know how well Burns and Devoy would have fared on loan to Accrington Stanley after a while with Watford's underage teams?

None of that is comparable.

[CSAD]

How do you know how well Burns and Devoy would have fared on loan to Accrington Stanley after a while with Watford's underage teams?

None of that is comparable.

Probably not much better because it would have been the same mistake made.

[Bottle of Tonic]

CSAD Will you ever give it a rest about Celtic. Painful to read such whinging.

Celtics first interest is not in 'bringing through' players. Either for Ireland of anyone else. Its winning trophies. They sign a lot of players, both youth and cheapish younger pros with first team experience elsewhere. In the hope that some of them will be a 'hit'. Coaching and development panel league structure aside, its then mostly up to the players themselves to become that 'hit'. In over 20 years of closely following Celtic they have always had some 'youth' either getting a run in the first team or making the bench. The majority of these players that got a chance turned out to be not good enough in the end. That's football though. You have 10 kids all trying but only 1 of them will make it in the game. Off the top of my head I've seen Celtic play the likes of youth players Jamie Smith and Ross Wallace in massive European games. Darren O Dea played against Milan in the San Siro and got more than a fair crack of the whip at Parkhead. The foot.ie hero Cillian Sheridan played and scored for the first team. Aiden Mcgeady was good enough to get his chance at 16 or 17. Tony Watt scored the winner vs Barca. Mikey Johnston has had plenty of opportunity in recent seasons, getting the nod over established players at Ibrox etc etc etc etc. I could go on and on. Basically if a young player is better than his peers at Celtic, he has a decent shot at first team action. That many of those I listed as examples went on to have medicare careers tells you a story about the competitiveness of football at the highest level.

[Trequartista20]

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

[Diggs246]

Just listened to Ger O'Brien who is head of the academy at St Pats being interviewed on the latest LOI Central Podcast. Well worth a listen to. He talks about the changes needed in Ireland due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18.

I dont think the general public realize the impact that is going to have on player development in the coming years. He makes the point that the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Bazunu would all have not being able to join English clubs until after 18 and how we were already struggling to do well at international level. Without major investment in coaches its going to be a disaster on the horizon.

I know most of us here were probably aware of it but he speaks very well

"due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18"

What do u mean? I didnt here this. Are u saying only adults can sign for uk clubs?

[tetsujin1979]

Diggs, there isn't any txt spk in RLP's post. What point are you trying to make?

[seanfhear]

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.
Maybe their players are not good enough to go anywhere else. Why would other clubs or the clubs good at bringing players through be letting these super-stars slip through their fingers. Why would football in general be letting potentially very valuable players slip through its fingers = = It makes not a jot of sense.

[Kingdom]

He’s calm and silky and reads the game well. Comfortable under pressure, good first touch, put simply, he’s a footballer. Mistakes will happen as he moves up the levels given the position he’s in but he’s got the temperament to deal with it I think.

He’s comfortable in the air as you’d expect but he’s not McGuinness. Something that could well improve over time as he gets more comfortable with his body.

He’s not crazy quick but he’s not slow to the point you’d worry about it being a problem.

Met him and his mam once, seemed like lovely people

I think it was McNulty who made a really really bad mistake for the 17s in the Euros a couple of years ago, loose back pass or intercepted pass across to his cb partner, one of a few in the same game. Remember thinking at the time, this is the level for it to happen to him, because it won't happen again. And sure enough next game, he was tops.

[Kingdom]

The only possible defence of Celtic I could offer here is that they probably didn't destroy Afolabi - he was never as good as he was made out to be, he just had a big physical advantage at underage level that didn't exist at senior level. Southampton saw that and released him.

Other than that though, yes they've been a disaster for Irish players. Even someone like Barry Coffey - he was highly rated leaving Ireland, a few years at Celtic left him in a place where he didn't exactly tear up any trees at Cliftonville. Maybe that was always his level but we'll never know how good he might have been had he gone to a club with a better youth setup.


It's all opinions, but I think I saw Coffey play in the flesh at underage level twice, and a few times on the telly, and not once did I ever think he was going to be a player who would have a future senior career at International level.

[Kingdom]

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

I agree with 3/420 completely, and god knows, we don't agree on much!

And to defend CSAD a touch, reading his recent posts, it seems to me that he isn't so much criticising Celtic (or caring about what Celtic do) as much as displaying concern for promising Irish kids who go there bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Only difference between them and Connell is his first-team experience, that's what hurts him particularly.

Eirambler makes the point about Celtic covering the outlay on 3 players by the money brought in by Frimpong - that's exactly it. It's a business model as seen by Liverpool and countless other clubs. Dare I say it, it's a similar model to what the big schoolboy clubs have. Take the brightest, biggest and best, and one of them is bound to do well, get a transfer and keep the show on the road.

[Diggs246]

Diggs, there isn't any txt spk in RLP's post. What point are you trying to make?

Is he saying that lads cant go to the uk until they are 18? or have I miss read it?

[tetsujin1979]

Is he saying that lads cant go to the uk until they are 18? or have I miss read it?
Yes, and it's correct. Due to Brexit, EU players can't move to the UK for football reasons until they are 18. Evan Ferguson was able to move at 16, but it's because his mother has a UK passport.

[Diggs246]

Yes, and it's correct. Due to Brexit, EU players can't move to the UK for football reasons until they are 18. Evan Ferguson was able to move at 16, but it's because his mother has a UK passport.

OMG, that's is a disaster.

[Diggs246]

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations

[kennedmc]

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

Connell played 10 games for Bolton at the tail end of the season and they lost 9 of them. They were in free fall so hard to judge how good or bad a player is in that circumstance. Often young lads get credit for trying hard and their quality can be overlooked in these situations. Him and his agent probably couldn't believe there luck when he got offered a 4 year deal!

One thing that alarms me about Connell is if he was promising why didn't get a loan move to a better club at a higher level? E.g League 1 / league 2 scottish championship etc. Thats 60 / 70 clubs that are constantly monitoring for good value loans deals etc Anyway if he can't get himself a better loan move this season that's a red flag, assuming he doesn't get a look in at Celtic.

I do agree that the Celtic youth structure / transfers are in a mess (Agree re reserve league) but I look at it that the mess is in their own talent identification - they seem to be very poor at it and this has benefited the likes of O'Connor, Coffey, Afolabi by them getting good long term deals that they may not have got anywhere else.

[Diggs246]

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations


Does anyone have any knowledge in this field that can advise?