FAI Investigate Alleged Racist Abuse Of Zayed [Archive] - Page 4

Charlie Darwin

16/06/2011, 2:07 AM

Osarusan is correct though with the qualification that they must observe due process and employ fair procedures in conducting their investigation and arriving at their conclusion. They most certainly are not as limited in their authority as your post painted them.
OK, I see where the confusion is. I was responding to the people in here who were saying the FAI would never pass a judgement against their Model Club, as if there's no way there could just not be enough evidence to take action against the player. I'm saying the FAI can only make a judgement if it's backed by a significant weight of evidence, just like the Evening Herald or any other newspaper would need the weight of evidence to protect it from legal claims (although you're right that a newspaper would have a much higher burden of proof due to our draconian and anti-press freedom libel laws).

Charlie Darwin

16/06/2011, 3:13 AM

totally dismissing the fact that this may have happened and holding yer hands up and saying that its a possibility.
OK, you realise that "totally dismissing the fact that this may have happened" and "holding yer hands up and saying that its a possibility" aren't actually the same thing, right?

dfx-

16/06/2011, 3:38 AM

obviously something went on

Really?

Glad that's that settled then. You wouldn't happen to be confusing obviously with I'm choosing to believe by any chance?

micls

16/06/2011, 4:35 AM

A criminal case can't be decided on one person's word against another. Even rape cases have physical evidence. .
That's not true. Many many rape cases have no physical evidence. While it's far harder to get a conviction, it does happen on a one person vs another's word. It's based on things like believability e.g if the person charged is caught lying, abili etc, or caught out confusing the story he gave.

Most rape cases come down to one person vs another and if the victim is believable enough to pass reasonable doubt etc.

But yeah, once they follow their own procedures the FAI can pretty much do whatever they want, in sanctioning players within the game

HulaHoop

16/06/2011, 8:34 AM

According to The Sun this whole big hullabaloo is because somebody called Zayed "Gaddafi"

Maybe that fits the PC interpretation of racist abuse but jesus christ Zayed would want to grow a set of balls. Crying racism in a case like this does the cause no good at all and deflects attention away from real racial discrimination that happens in Irish society which is a very serious problem that needs to be stamped out.

thischarmingman

16/06/2011, 8:47 AM

Derry can expect a letter from a south dublin solicitors office in the next few days.
Some of the teams in this league might let that kind of shi* go, but We Are Rovers and that will not be let go.

The various gypo's in the dubbalin meedja have their own agenda also.

http://members.abunawaf.com/balot/mm/smile_5-dog.jpg

Rasputin

16/06/2011, 9:44 AM

Boco was offered an apology and it was accepted.
Its largely irrelevant if Boco did indeed accept an apology or not.
This is not about personal feelings being hurt, this is alot larger than that.
If it was just a bit of banter and slagging between the two of them, then no problem, who doesnt do that.
But it was a malicious comment in a hostile context about his ethnicity.
That is far bigger than one mans feelings, that is a slur against alot of other people, including some who go to our games.
Rovers have done alot of good work participating in cross community initiatives with teams from Globe House etc and that work just seems irrelevant when we all just dismiss Mc Guiness's comments as some personal abuse.

If you cant move on thats your problem, no-one elses, and has nothing to do with the club.
Maybe I cant move on, I just see Rovers as better than this since it has always been an inclusive club, look at people like Johnny Chada.

Hulsey

16/06/2011, 10:13 AM

According to The Sun this whole big hullabaloo is because somebody called Zayed "Gaddafi"

Maybe that fits the PC interpretation of racist abuse but jesus christ Zayed would want to grow a set of balls.

Is that any different to calling a player of german extraction "hitler"? Would be difficult to justify that so why try on the same issue here?

Macy

16/06/2011, 10:18 AM

Is that any different to calling a player of german extraction "hitler"? Would be difficult to justify that so why try on the same issue here?
It's no different, but IF that is the abuse, then I'm not sure it's racism.

DannyInvincible

16/06/2011, 10:28 AM

Isn't it? I can't imagine he'd have been called "Gaddaffi" because of his political outlook...

SwanVsDalton

16/06/2011, 10:34 AM

Particularly insulting (worse than Hitler comparison) given the conflict in Libya and the fact many of Zayed's relatives are caught up in it. That's IF The Sun's report is correct...

Macy

16/06/2011, 10:41 AM

Isn't it? I can't imagine he'd have been called "Gaddaffi" because of his political outlook...
Maybe because he's of Libyan extraction and declared for Libya? I'm really not sure - I ain't claiming to be an expert - but I'd consider that to be different to abuse based on the colour of his skin, and the abuse alluded to earlier was purely based on the colour of his skin. And btw, not saying it's right, or that it isn't insulting, that it's not abuse or anything like that, I'm just not sure it's racism. Again, IF that is the abuse that he received.

marinobohs

16/06/2011, 10:54 AM

Stephen Kenny is acting like a right ****, that is all.

Grand so, perhaps the FAI should confine any investigation to Stephen Kenny. I mean shams denied it and we all know they never deny things that are true :rolleyes:
Obviously dont know what occured but hard to believe anything from Tallaght given shams history of denial of previous rascist/fan issues (and player rumoured to be involved). Difficult to see why Zayed would makeup accusation about shams player and not Bohs/Dundalk/Sligo, hell, if he wanted headlines ... Derry player:D
Blaming player/manager involved for reporting it is clearest case of "shooting the messenger" ever

horton

16/06/2011, 11:05 AM

Dodge

16/06/2011, 11:11 AM

Gotta love this forum, ye'z are debating what the correct terminology should be for whatever Zayed is claiming was said to him rather that what should be done against the offender/stop it happening again

thats because if Zayed was simply verbally abused, then he's only suffering like probably every player in the league last week. You think players should get punished for calling Liam Burns a fat so-and-so, or Colin Hawkins a big nosed so-and-so each week?

Of course not.

Just like there's a huge difference between calling Ndo a moneygrabbing c*** and a black C***

The terminalogy is important, particularly when you're talking about punishment

SwanVsDalton

16/06/2011, 11:18 AM

thats because if Zayed was simply verbally abused, then he's only suffering like probably every player in the league last week. You think players should get punished for calling Liam Burns a fat so-and-so, or Colin Hawkins a big nosed so-and-so each week?

Of course not.

Just like there's a huge difference between calling Ndo a moneygrabbing c*** and a black C***

The terminalogy is important, particularly when you're talking about punishment

If the Gaddafi comment is true, it's hardly the same as Liam Burns being called fat. Unless Burns' relatives are caught up in some kind of war with pies.

colinf

16/06/2011, 11:23 AM

now they're saying if he was called gaddafi its not racist. seriously.....

Dodge

16/06/2011, 11:25 AM

Charlie Darwin

16/06/2011, 11:39 AM

If that's what was said then it's probably not racist but it was way over the line and you can see why he was so upset. At least the offender did his research and use a geographically accurate insult.

SwanVsDalton

16/06/2011, 11:44 AM

Its not as if its (Tunisian) Dad or Irish mother. We're talking about distant cousins here in a country he had never visited before being approached to play football for them

Is calling an English woman Margaret Thatcher rascist? OR an American man George Bush? Or an Irish man Paul McGrath for that matter.

I'm taking Zayed's word on it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12523946). At the very least his father is likely very concerned/upset and naturally that'll hit the rest of the family. The current conflict in Libya and the Zayed family's stake in it is no comparison with those examples.

And I haven't said it's racist, although Zayed's race clearly had something to do with it. I do think it's a fairly disgusting and extremely stupid thing to say. Would think the same if someone rocked up to Fahrudin Kuduzovic and gave him grief about Ratko Mladic.

Jicked

16/06/2011, 11:45 AM

It's about as racist as calling Chris O'Connor of Bohs "Josef Fritzl"

DannyInvincible

16/06/2011, 11:52 AM

The terminalogy is important, particularly when you're talking about punishment

The intent behind the terminology is what is important.

Maybe because he's of Libyan extraction and declared for Libya? I'm really not sure - I ain't claiming to be an expert - but I'd consider that to be different to abuse based on the colour of his skin, and the abuse alluded to earlier was purely based on the colour of his skin. And btw, not saying it's right, or that it isn't insulting, that it's not abuse or anything like that, I'm just not sure it's racism. Again, IF that is the abuse that he received.

Are you suggesting that those with a skin tone similar to that traditionally illustrated by most Irish cannot, by definition, fall victim to racist abuse in Ireland?

There's only one thing Zayed has in common with Gaddafi and that's his ethnicity. Any idiot trying to associate the two is obviously making a connection based on some ill-informed racial or national stereotype he's managed to concoct as a result of the recent unrest in Libya. It's hard to see how it couldn't be racist.

I'd imagine that calling someone Margeret Thatcher, or a Thatcherite, for example, would generally have different connotations. It would most usually be a slur based on that person's actual or imagined right-leaning political outlook.

Calling an American George Bush could well be racist, yeah, if the intent behind it was to insinuate that all Americans are idiots.

osarusan

16/06/2011, 11:56 AM

And I haven't said it's racist, although Zayed's race clearly had something to do with it. I do think it's a fairly disgusting and extremely stupid thing to say. Would think the same if someone rocked up to Fahrudin Kuduzovic and gave him grief about Ratko Mladic.

The issue here is if it's racist or not though. There is a difference between being an ignorant c**t of a player and being an ignorant racist c**t of a player, and the FAI are investigating a charge of racism in this case.

What we need is the definition of racism from which the FAI will reach a decision (do they even have one, or will they borrow oe from a dictionary?)

Dodge

16/06/2011, 11:56 AM

There's only one thing Zayed has in common with Gaddafi and that's his ethnicity.

Well I differentiate between nationality and ethnicity. Zayed and Gadaffi have both (somewhat) in common

Shouting Gaddafi at Zayed isn't rascist IMO. Calling him a shoebomber (which is what I've hear the Rovers player is alledged to have said) is.

marinobohs

16/06/2011, 12:02 PM

It's about as racist as calling Chris O'Connor of Bohs "Josef Fritzl"

Are shams now saying a comment was made but it just was not rascist ? It really is difficult to keep up with the sham spoofers.

SwanVsDalton

16/06/2011, 12:03 PM

The issue here is if it's racist or not though. There is a difference between being an ignorant c**t of a player and being an ignorant racist c**t of a player, and the FAI are investigating a charge of racism in this case.

I haven't spoken of punishment in this instance, and I mostly agree - if that's the evidence and that IS actually what the player said. I was just underlining what a pig ignorant and insulting thing it is to say, before a load of posters come on having a jeer at Zayed about it.

bluewhitearmy

16/06/2011, 12:04 PM

It's about as racist as calling Chris O'Connor of Bohs "Josef Fritzl"

Why would calling an Australian an Austrian name be racist?

Macy

16/06/2011, 12:07 PM

Are you suggesting that those with a skin tone similar to that traditionally illustrated by most Irish cannot, by definition, fall victim to racist abuse in Ireland?
No - poor choice of words on my part, wasn't what I was trying to convey, or what I believe. The point I was attempting to make was that earlier posts had suggested he was called a term usually used to abuse people from the Indian subcontinent.

There's only one thing Zayed has in common with Gaddafi and that's his ethnicity. Any idiot trying to associate the two is obviously making a connection based on some ill-informed racial or national stereotype he's managed to concoct as a result of the recent unrest in Libya. It's hard to see how it couldn't be racist.
What about the nationality they have in common, at least in a footballing sense? It ain't pretty either way, but I still not sure it's racist.

born2bwild

16/06/2011, 12:08 PM

If someone called me 'Jedward' I would go ballistic.

Charlie Darwin

16/06/2011, 12:11 PM

Are shams now saying a comment was made but it just was not rascist ? It really is difficult to keep up with the sham spoofers.
Doubt any of us know what was said.

It does raise the question of whether the Rovers player denied saying anything, or just denies that what he said (if it was "Gaddafi") was racist.

Jicked

16/06/2011, 12:19 PM

Are shams now saying a comment was made but it just was not rascist ? It really is difficult to keep up with the sham spoofers.

Yeah I think you might have missed the hard hitting point I was trying to make in my very serious post.

FWIW, I've no idea if the Sun's claim is true or not.

White Horse

16/06/2011, 12:24 PM

Shouting Gaddafi at Zayed isn't rascist IMO.

I wouldn't call that racist either. Zayed choose to play for Gaddafi's national side.

If a player decides to ridule him for supporting a tyrant, it cannot be racism in my opinion.

Charlie Darwin

16/06/2011, 12:26 PM

You can't seriously believe that.

Red Army

16/06/2011, 12:34 PM

Libians aren't a race if someone called him a Arab c*** or a sand n***** that would be racist alright. Calling him Gaddaifi could be seen the same as calling him a c***

born2bwild

16/06/2011, 12:44 PM

It's about as racist as calling Chris O'Connor of Bohs "Josef Fritzl"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqVzRD_nWLQ

Priceless.

A N Mouse

16/06/2011, 12:47 PM

Some posters seem to have a very narrow view on racism and should acquaint themselves with a proper definition

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Legal

Or, just nod and smile next time you're called a thick paddy.

Red Army

16/06/2011, 12:47 PM

Also calling him a shoe bomber is NOT racist. Muslims are made up of all different races it's probably sectearian just like calling a Jew a yid or a catholic a taig

Dodge

16/06/2011, 1:01 PM

Some posters seem to have a very narrow view on racism and should acquaint themselves with a proper definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Legal
So we’ve gone from a moral argument to a legal one. And wiki tells us so.

Or, just nod and smile next time you're called a thick paddy.
Or you could let us decide what we want to take offence to.

hoopy

16/06/2011, 1:09 PM

Fair play to Pats . The usual 'everything is wrong at Rovers' brigade out in full force enables them to take a back seat in all this :plane:

Lim till i die

16/06/2011, 1:13 PM

Fair play to Pats . The usual 'everything is wrong at Rovers' brigade out in full force enables them to take a back seat in all this :plane:

I don't like that plane at the end of the post.

It clearly implies Zayed is a terrorist.

Which makes you a RACIST.

Which means Shamrock Rovers Football Club are RACIST

Which means they should be thrown out of the league.

And publicly flogged.

On a frosty morning.

[/thread]

Lim till i die

16/06/2011, 1:19 PM

Why would calling an Australian an Austrian name be racist?

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/zorrodeltaco/Australian_Flag_Joseph_Fritzl.jpg

hoopy

16/06/2011, 1:19 PM

Are shams now saying a comment was made but it just was not rascist ? It really is difficult to keep up with the sham spoofers.

Funny you taking the moral high ground about this. It must've been a different marinobohs on gypoweb who abused a fan of ours because he's gay.

Red Army

16/06/2011, 1:23 PM

Plenty of homophobic chants or comments are made by supporters of every club in the league every week.

White Horse

16/06/2011, 1:32 PM

Plenty of homophobic chants or comments are made by supporters of every club in the league every week.

Not like the good old 70's though. For most of my childhood I thought a homosexual was a crap footballer.

Dodge

16/06/2011, 1:32 PM

Fair play to Pats . The usual 'everything is wrong at Rovers' brigade out in full force enables them to take a back seat in all this :plane:

Pats made one statement. That a complaint was made and an investigation is underway. You think they should be more proactive in making up stuff?

Seeing as neither Zayed nor Kenny have said that he was racially abused at Pats (Kenny actually clarifying that he didn't make a statement attributed to him), then I think its fair to say they're right to not talk about it.

marinobohs

16/06/2011, 1:41 PM

Funny you taking the moral high ground about this. It must've been a different marinobohs on gypoweb who abused a fan of ours because he's gay.

Actually slagged him because of his behaviour, still as I said dont know what happened in Tallaght - unlike all the shams seemingly so certain there was no rascism involved (again).
Did comment that sham denials lack credibility given previous cases, glad to see you cant argue that. Nice try at trying to divert attention away from yet another example of shams "commitment to anti rascism" policy (perhaps should be changed to shams policy to deny rascism occured policy ?) so lauded by the FAI whitewash. Perahaps the player was just chanting hoops, hoops, hoops, ?:rolleyes: