FAI Investigate Alleged Racist Abuse Of Zayed [Archive] - Page 3

HulaHoop

15/06/2011, 12:15 PM

It's probable that the Rovers player made a racist remark.

Why is it probable? It's every bit as probable that he didn't make any racist remark. Zayed could have misheard what was said, he could have made it up totally - we just don't know. The only two people who know the truth is Zayed himself and the player he's accusing. Speculating about probabilities and so on is pointless.

SwanVsDalton

15/06/2011, 12:22 PM

It's probable that the Rovers player made a racist remark. Yes, Zayed is 'speaking out' but this issue should be 'spoken in' - let the league and the clubs deal with it and don't involve the media. Now, who sent this to the media? The ref? The FAI? The LOI is not a racist league - there are announcements before every match in every ground warning fans. I have almost never heard a racist comment from a fan. There is no need to 'speak out' - this bullsh1t in the media projects an unfair, damaging picture of the league.

Appears Kenny is the one who made it public (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/hoops-deny-zayed-racism-allegations-2674945.html). Zayed hasn't said a single thing to the media from what I've seen. The complaint has been made through the proper channels and is now being investigated.

Clearly Kenny has made some comment on it, but your obsession with the meedja is a bit weird - do you really think this wouldn't have come out anyway? The quality of journalism in Ireland may be faltering but there are a few who do actually do their job. And, besides, it's important complaints of this nature are thoroughly investigated in a transparent fashion.

Maybe it could've been kept wrapped a little longer, but these things invariably come out and it doesn't make a whole heap of difference when. Far more important is how the FAI et al react. Any bad PR caused by it will be alleviated by swift and decisive action by the authorities.

Every league has occasional race issues. And anyone with an ounce of sense will understand that. The rest can jump.

Mark

15/06/2011, 12:27 PM

I see that Shams were quick enough to get their press release out defending their player. Yet they still have not issued a statement apologising for the actions of their supporters in Richmond Park after the Cup semi replay last year. Some of those who run Shams are still in denial over that.

I'm not surprised that this has happened. I've no idea who the player in question is but I've narrowed it down to one or two in my own mind.

Rasputin

15/06/2011, 12:33 PM

'Racial abuse' to me has always meant someone receiving unwanted comments over their skin colour or religion. It's scandalous for anyone to have to put up with that. But is calling someone 'you dublin junkie', or 'you effin redneck' or 'you (enter City here) c***' regarded as 'racial abuse'? I haven't a clue what went on last night but seeing as Zayed isn't black I'm assuming if someone did say something to him it had to be along the lines of 'you Libyan so and so',even though he was born in Dublin. It's the only thing I can think of what was allegedly said. If this is what was said is it 'racial abuse'? Gary Twigg's called a 'Scottish c***' by opposition fans(and by an opposition manager a few weeks back), is this 'racial abuse'?
This has been done to death.
The difference between abusing someone of being a culchie or a junkie etc and abusing someone of their racial ethnicity is that racial ethnicity has produced some of the worst descrimination the world has seen. It has been used the world over to subjugate and brutalise whole peoples, that is the difference, and in my eyes quite a noticeable difference.
As for the "keep it in house" brigade, your a disgrace, something as socially thorny as racism should be tackled head on and in full public view, not just swept under the carpet.
And as for Mc Guineass for what he said he is a disgrace and I never wanted him at our club and still dont, I think a club should have principles and that neanderthal evidently doesnt.
Whether this proves to be accurate or not remains to be seen, lambasting Zayed and rubbishing his claims because he is media savy is ridiculous until we have some genuine findings, not that that will ever happen if its left to the FAI.

born2bwild

15/06/2011, 12:37 PM

Appears Kenny is the one who made it public (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0615/1224298935715.html). Zayed hasn't said a single thing to the media from what I've seen. The complaint has been made through the proper channels and is now being investigated.

Clearly Kenny has made some comment on it, but your obsession with the meedja is a bit weird - do you really think this wouldn't have come out anyway? The quality of journalism in Ireland may be faltering but there are a few who do actually do their job. And, besides, it's important complaints of this nature are thoroughly investigated in a transparent fashion.

Maybe it could've been kept wrapped a little longer, but these things invariably come out and it doesn't make a whole heap of difference when. Far more important is how the FAI et al react. Any bad PR caused by it will be alleviated by swift and decisive action by the authorities.

Every league has occasional race issues. And anyone with an ounce of sense will understand that. The rest can jump.

I work in an environment where racist remarks are made occasionally. They are dealt with very severely. In an environment where everyone knows it's wrong that's the only way to deal with it.

I don't think I'm 'obsessed' with the media. I am suspicious of them; good news is no news and bad news can never be bad enough so putting this into the public arena can only have one outcome: bad publicity for the LOI. There's nothing 'weird' about being concerned about the public image of the LOI; it's basic common sense.

I agree with you - the FAI's reaction is crucial now. It should be managed so that it becomes a good news story.

By the way, it's not clear from your link that Kenny was the source for the incident on Monday: "It subsequently emerged through Derry manager Stephen Kenny in post match interviews Zayed had also been racially abused by sections of the home crowd during last Friday’s match". Kenny is cited here only as the source of the incident in Inchicore

born2bwild

15/06/2011, 12:45 PM

This has been done to death.

As for the "keep it in house" brigade, your a disgrace, something as socially thorny as racism should be tackled head on and in full public view, not just swept under the carpet.

Whether this proves to be accurate or not remains to be seen, lambasting Zayed and rubbishing his claims because he is media savy is ridiculous until we have some genuine findings, not that that will ever happen if its left to the FAI.

I don't think this needs to be bashed out in public. Neither do I think that it should be swept under the carpet. There should be formal inquiries and sanctions on players and clubs who are found to be guilty of making racist remarks.

SwanVsDalton

15/06/2011, 12:47 PM

I don't think I'm 'obsessed' with the media. I am suspicious of them; good news is no news and bad news can never be bad enough so putting this into the public arena can only have one outcome: bad publicity for the LOI. There's nothing 'weird' about being concerned about the public image of the LOI; it's basic common sense.

Of course, but what I mean is you seem particularly interested in how the news broke. I don't think it matters - it would've broke eventually regardless, and the PR hit would've been the same. Could've been worse, actually, if it broke later and nothing had been done.

By the way, it's not clear from your link that Kenny was the source for the incident on Monday: "It subsequently emerged through Derry manager Stephen Kenny in post match interviews Zayed had also been racially abused by sections of the home crowd during last Friday’s match". Kenny is cited here only as the source of the incident in Inchicore

Sorry wrong link - was reading both the Irish Times and Indo this morning and got mixed up. Here it is (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/hoops-deny-zayed-racism-allegations-2674945.html).

"Derry manager Stephen Kenny made the issue public after the game, but said the player himself didn't want to talk about the incident."

Unclear what incident they're referring to, but it seems to me the Rovers complaint broke post game and Kenny made comment of the Pats one while he was on it. Seems clear Zayed was sought for comment but refused.

born2bwild

15/06/2011, 12:54 PM

Well Kenny was losing the rag at the match big time. Thanks for that link - what an article - brings up the McGuinness story, quotes like this "He has recounted several incidents in his blog, in which he recalled being called "a black b*****d", "a Muslim" and a "shoe bomber" on separate occasions during his career" lovely story. This is why I'm obsessed with the media - **** all about the really great game of ball that took place in Richmond park last week or for that matter the high quality of passing football played by rovers in the first twenty five minutes the other night or the tactical battle in the second half.
Why should this have broken anyway? It's non-event. In the heat of the game someone said something offensive and it should be dealt with accordingly.

SwanVsDalton

15/06/2011, 1:14 PM

Why should this have broken anyway? It's non-event. In the heat of the game someone said something offensive and it should be dealt with accordingly.

Are you seriously saying a complaint of racial abuse is a non-event? I might need to lie down...

Hibs4Ever

15/06/2011, 1:16 PM

Are you seriously saying a complaint of racist abuse is a non-event? I might need to lie down...

I don't think clubs should be mentioned without any actual proof

born2bwild

15/06/2011, 1:31 PM

Are you seriously saying a complaint of racial abuse is a non-event? I might need to lie down...

I meant it should be a non-event as far as the media are concerned - by and large they don't care if the league lives or dies - it's a non-event because it is not a common occurrence, in my experience. As soon as the media gets hold of it it's put into an article like the one you linked to and it starts to look like there's a problem with racism in the LOI. There isn't a problem; that's why I'm saying it's a non-event.

As an internal matter for the FAI and the league it is far from a non-event. If true, it's very serious and there should be serious punishment dished out to clubs or players who are found guilty.

redobit

15/06/2011, 1:41 PM

This has been done to death.
The difference between abusing someone of being a culchie or a junkie etc and abusing someone of their racial ethnicity is that racial ethnicity has produced some of the worst descrimination the world has seen. It has been used the world over to subjugate and brutalise whole peoples, that is the difference, and in my eyes quite a noticeable difference.
As for the "keep it in house" brigade, your a disgrace, something as socially thorny as racism should be tackled head on and in full public view, not just swept under the carpet.
And as for Mc Guineass for what he said he is a disgrace and I never wanted him at our club and still dont, I think a club should have principles and that neanderthal evidently doesnt.
Whether this proves to be accurate or not remains to be seen, lambasting Zayed and rubbishing his claims because he is media savy is ridiculous until we have some genuine findings, not that that will ever happen if its left to the FAI.

Boco was offered an apology and it was accepted. If you cant move on thats your problem, no-one elses, and has nothing to do with the club.

passerrby

15/06/2011, 1:54 PM

it would be so refreshing to just once come on here and read a rovers supporters say something along the lines that I hope this allegation is not true but if it is the player must leave the club instead of runnig to the ramparts to man the guns everytime somebody says anything unsavoury that may have happened due to there players/supporters etc.
either way this is not good news because if its true then shame on the player (not the Club) and if its not true then shame on the boy crying wolf.

SwanVsDalton

15/06/2011, 2:03 PM

I meant it should be a non-event as far as the media are concerned - by and large they don't care if the league lives or dies - it's a non-event because it is not a common occurrence, in my experience. As soon as the media gets hold of it it's put into an article like the one you linked to and it starts to look like there's a problem with racism in the LOI. There isn't a problem; that's why I'm saying it's a non-event.

As an internal matter for the FAI and the league it is far from a non-event. If true, it's very serious and there should be serious punishment dished out to clubs or players who are found guilty.

Just because it's not widespread or a huge problem doesn't make it a non-event. Racism isn't widespread in the EPL either, but it's big news when a player reports it and rightly taken seriously. And the EPL has far more racism problems than the LOI.

I think you're overstating how much damage this story will do. Whoever uses this story as a stick to beat the league with are the kind of Mansenalpool jersey wearing EPL barstooling braindeads who long ago made up their mind on the LOI. Anyone with a bit of sense knows racism isn't a huge problem in the LOI. So it's far more important every complaint gets the right attention, than minimising whatever PR damage that might occur.

I don't think clubs should be mentioned without any actual proof

Don't see how it could be avoided. If the story's going to come out, then so will the clubs involved. If the players (and Rovers) are proved innocent, then no problem - Zayed gets all the flak and everything goes back to normal.

hoopy

15/06/2011, 2:08 PM

it would be so refreshing to just once come on here and read a rovers supporters say something along the lines that I hope this allegation is not true but if it is the player must leave the club

I'm sure most Rovers fans would be thinking that but why should he have to leave the club when a good suspension is the norm? Also, sadly a lot of people on here and elsewhere want this to be true(of course que the 'typical Rovers arrogance' etc) because it it Shamrock Rovers. For example why didn't you include Pats in that comment instead of just Rovers?

Red Army

15/06/2011, 2:15 PM

Boco was offered an apology and it was accepted. If you cant move on thats your problem, no-one elses, and has nothing to do with the club.

This was one of the reasons Boco didn't resign some people then spread rumours it was about money. He never publicly accepted any apology.

redobit

15/06/2011, 2:28 PM

This was one of the reasons Boco didn't resign some people then spread rumours it was about money. He never publicly accepted any apology.

Just because he didnt publicly accept it dosent mean he didnt accept it. He still stuck around and trained with the club for 3 weeks, with McGuinness too, and also said he had no problem with McG coming to the club. And as for the money thing, Boco was a money grabber plain and simple, everyone knows that.

Back on point, heard a name of player supposedly involved and Id just say, if its true, Im not suprised.

mrtndvn

15/06/2011, 2:29 PM

I really don't think anyone playing in Tallaght has ever been on the receiving end of racist abuse. This thread should be locked as SRFC are not only the biggest group of angles you'll ever meet but also Ireland's model club.

hoopy

15/06/2011, 2:33 PM

hoopy

15/06/2011, 2:34 PM

the biggest group of angles you'll ever meet

I've been called a right eejit many times but never a right angle.

Charlie Darwin

15/06/2011, 2:43 PM

osarusan

15/06/2011, 2:51 PM

But if there's no corroborating evidence then it's just one man's word over another and any positive ruling from the FAI would have serious legal implications.

This applies to both cases by the sound of it, and it'll be hard for the FAI to reach any conclusion other than an 'insufficient evidence to proceed' if it is just one man's word against another.

SkStu

15/06/2011, 2:56 PM

I'm sure most Rovers fans would be thinking that but why should he have to leave the club when a good suspension is the norm?

would the fact that he may have lied about it to your manager and board make a difference hoopy (thereby making SRFC look at best stupid and at worst complicit) if it turns out that he is found guilty?

SwanVsDalton

15/06/2011, 2:57 PM

I agree with what you're saying CD - in particular if it's one man's word against the other then the FAI cannot rule on it. But:

I'd love to see some of the posters on here sitting on a jury in a criminal trial. One man's word against another = convict, or else it's an FAI/Model Club conspiracy.

I'd say this view has been pretty muted in the thread compared to some of the insinuations made about Zayed.

born2bwild

15/06/2011, 2:59 PM

. Whoever uses this story as a stick to beat the league with are the kind of Mansenalpool jersey wearing EPL barstooling braindeads who long ago made up their mind on the LOI.

Forget about racism: Is there anything more offensive than the term 'barstooler'? ;)

SkStu

15/06/2011, 3:00 PM

I'd love to see some of the posters on here sitting on a jury in a criminal trial. One man's word against another = convict, or else it's an FAI/Model Club conspiracy.

I'd like to think it's all a big misunderstanding for obvious reasons. Zayed seems like a thoughtful bloke who wouldn't throw around serious accusations without merit. If the accused player is who I think it is, from what I know of him (not personally) I'd be more inclined to believe Zayed. But if there's no corroborating evidence then it's just one man's word over another and any positive ruling from the FAI would have serious legal implications.

most trials are one persons word against another. In cases where it is one persons word against another (e.g. rape) other evidence (including things such as believability and character) can lead to a court finding someone guilty. No legal implications whatsoever provided the FAI investigation is conducted fairly and properly.

poster

15/06/2011, 3:07 PM

This was one of the reasons Boco didn't resign some people then spread rumours it was about money. He never publicly accepted any apology.

Boco left because he saw the money in China, has absolutely nothing to do with McGuinness. He might be a bit of a mercenary but I'd still have him back today.

poster

15/06/2011, 3:10 PM

Does mypost's flying saucer have a time travel facility? We could go back in time to the very moment and sort all this out.

Charlie Darwin

15/06/2011, 3:11 PM

I agree with what you're saying CD - in particular if it's one man's word against the other then the FAI cannot rule on it. But:

I'd say this view has been pretty muted in the thread compared to some of the insinuations made about Zayed.
Yep, it goes both ways.

most trials are one persons word against another. In cases where it is one persons word against another (e.g. rape) other evidence (including things such as believability and character) can lead to a court finding someone guilty. No legal implications whatsoever provided the FAI investigation is conducted fairly and properly.
A criminal case can't be decided on one person's word against another. Even rape cases have physical evidence. That's not really the point though - at a civil trial, a judge could make a decision between Zayed's word and the Rovers player. The FAI's not a court and they don't have the authority to make that judgement unless there is significantly more evidence. Perhaps they'll find more evidence.

SkStu

15/06/2011, 3:23 PM

rape was merely an example of how an issue where it is one persons word vs another's can still prove guilt or innocence. I know the FAI is not a court, that is why i referred to it as the FAI investigation. Im not sure what the standard of proof they require is, they probably dont even know that themselves.

By the way, I agree they would need more evidence to make a decision, i was just saying that anything that is relevant can end up being acceptable evidence.

A N Mouse

15/06/2011, 3:37 PM

I've been called a right eejit many times but never a right angle.

Yeah, you think your a cute hoor, but you're too feckin obtuse

Charlie Darwin

15/06/2011, 3:40 PM

Well what I mean is that the FAI is (in a sense) a media organisation and they have no more a right than the Evening Herald to make definitive judgements based on two people's contrasting stories.

SkStu

15/06/2011, 3:46 PM

no way CD. Do you really believe that?!

Dodge

15/06/2011, 3:53 PM

The evidence in the Pats case is apparently a photograph. I kid you not. A photograph is supposed to show the type of abuse Zayed got

osarusan

15/06/2011, 3:53 PM

Well what I mean is that the FAI is (in a sense) a media organisation and they have no more a right than the Evening Herald to make definitive judgements based on two people's contrasting stories.

They're governing body of the league. They can do whatever the hell they want.

dcfc_1928

15/06/2011, 4:52 PM

Not quite - from the photographer on our forum:

"....I can tell you now, that myself and a Dublin based photographer heard this abuse, And that the Dublin based photographer reported it to a steward, I have the photographs of the section and one individual in particular who gave some serious abuse to Zayed. "

The photograph might help identify the indvidual involved - that's all.

The evidence in the Pats case is apparently a photograph. I kid you not. A photograph is supposed to show the type of abuse Zayed got

Charlie Darwin

15/06/2011, 4:54 PM

DannyInvincible

15/06/2011, 4:57 PM

White Irish Libyan bloke with massive ego is upset that Pats fans are slagging his sister so he uses the race card.

Why the "White Irish" prefix? Do you think it precludes the possibility that he might have been subjected to racist abuse or would make any abuse directed at him due to his Tunisian-Libyan descent somehow less serious?

SkStu

15/06/2011, 5:03 PM

They're governing body of the league. They can do whatever the hell they want.

No they can't. They're subject to the law like everybody else and publically declaring somebody guilty of racism without sufficient evidence is inviting legal action.

Osarusan is correct though with the qualification that they must observe due process and employ fair procedures in conducting their investigation and arriving at their conclusion. They most certainly are not as limited in their authority as your post painted them.

Sean South

15/06/2011, 5:03 PM

Boco left because he saw the money in China, has absolutely nothing to do with McGuinness. He might be a bit of a mercenary but I'd still have him back today.
He's no more a mercenary then any of the current crop. He often said he found the cost of living in Ireland very expensive compared to north England and France.

PartySaint

15/06/2011, 5:06 PM

So nothing can be said for actually waiting to see the results of the investigation and then talking about it on here??

hoopy

15/06/2011, 6:47 PM

Yeah, you think your a cute hoor, but you're too feckin obtuse

I'd never assume to be cute. I'm just a Dublin Rovers c***.

Dodge

15/06/2011, 8:26 PM

Stephen Kenny on newstalk said he didn't say anything about Pats fans...

placid casual

15/06/2011, 9:51 PM

he made the allegation on the radio show that a racist comment was made by a rovers player and that it was pre-meditated.

Derry can expect a letter from a south dublin solicitors office in the next few days.
Some of the teams in this league might let that kind of shi* go, but We Are Rovers and that will not be let go.

The various gypo's in the dubbalin meedja have their own agenda also.

SkStu

15/06/2011, 9:55 PM

in fairness to Rovers, you love writing letters.

Dodge

15/06/2011, 9:57 PM

Derry can expect a letter from a south dublin solicitors office in the next few days.
Some of the teams in this league might let that kind of shi* go, but We Are Rovers and that will not be let go.

I betcha this doesn't happen

Sean South

15/06/2011, 10:28 PM

Aaron

15/06/2011, 10:35 PM