Keith Andrews

[tetsujin1979]

In fairness, that was only over three matches at the Euros. What is his average pass length over a full season? That would be a much more accurate figure.
in order to work that out, you'd need to record every completed pass made in every game over an entire season, and then divide by the number of passes. Maybe Opta has it?

[Charlie Darwin]

What does it matter what his average pass distance is? It's irrelevant. Somebody said he can't pass the ball ten yards and that was patently proven to be false. There is no more data required. I'd imagine Xavi's average pass is less than 10 yards but it doesn't mean he can't ping it 30 yards if he spots a pass.

[Morginho]

Well he can.... :P

[tricky_colour]

according to squawka - http://www.squawka.com/player/keith-andrews - his average pass length is 17m = 18 yards.
so, yes he can pass the ball ten yards

It could be he is better at long passes.

[Murfinator]

To be fair 17m average pass distance is quite short and to only have a 70% success rate doing that is pretty terrible for a centre mid. Andrews reminds me a bit like Kilbane in that regard, very spirited player and leader in his enthusiasm and effort but struggles to do his primary job effectively.

[dong]

Arsene Wenger thinks you need a team of artists with no attention to their mental / leadership attributes. What does he have? A team of fancy dans who choke all the time. Eric Morecambe was a genius, but he needed Ernie Wise to illustrate it. Teams often need the likes of Andrews as much as they need the Pirlos. Sure, we'd prefer if we had a Makelele or a Deschamps but we don't.

He has a team that reaches champions league football year after year.

[dong]

What does it matter what his average pass distance is? It's irrelevant. Somebody said he can't pass the ball ten yards and that was patently proven to be false. There is no more data required. I'd imagine Xavi's average pass is less than 10 yards but it doesn't mean he can't ping it 30 yards if he spots a pass.

Christ Charlie. I would have expected better of you clinging to a turn of phrase like that.
The point is he is a terrible passer of the ball, anybody can see that. Compared to say, Keith Fahey or James McCarthy. We should be trying to move away from these all huff and puff players in my opinion.

[Stuttgart88]

He has a team that reaches champions league football year after year.With the 3rd highest wage bill in England so that's what you'd expect. They lost what, 9 league games last season? The dogs on the steeet think they're a soft touch and can be got at easily. Don't you?

[Stuttgart88]

Christ Charlie. I would have expected better of you clinging to a turn of phrase like that.
The point is he is a terrible passer of the ball, anybody can see that. Compared to say, Keith Fahey or James McCarthy. We should be trying to move away from these all huff and puff players in my opinion.Personally I think in a 2 man midfield you need a ball winner and a ball user, though ideally each player can do both. Andrews doesn't have much in the way of finesse but he's an important part of Trap's system. Now, the big point is whether Trap's system needs a tweak and I think it does. The tweak I would make would be to include McCarthy and Gibson with one other playing a bit further ahead. Whether that one other is Andrews or a better passer, say Hoolahan or Ireland(!), isn't something I'm fixed on and it'd depend on how things pan out. What works in theory and what works in practice are often very different.

[tricky_colour]

How much does our squad cost?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Arsene Wenger thinks you need a team of artists with no attention to their mental / leadership attributes. What does he have? A team of fancy dans who choke all the time. Eric Morecambe was a genius, but he needed Ernie Wise to illustrate it. Teams often need the likes of Andrews as much as they need the Pirlos. Sure, we'd prefer if we had a Makelele or a Deschamps but we don't.

Like Kevin Doyle -if he'd only get himself a girly snood and a pair of mittens Arsene'd be in for him in a heartbeat. :p

[BonnieShels]

How much does our squad cost?

Tuppence-ha'penny

[brine3]

Collect twelve crisp packets and get a free squad.

[mark12345]

according to squawka - http://www.squawka.com/player/keith-andrews - his average pass length is 17m = 18 yards.
so, yes he can pass the ball ten yards

Not the time for useless jokes. The man deserves a lot of credit for his commitment to Ireland, no question. But at the end of the day he is a liability (that's the jist of what's being said here). Andrews is just like Whelan, Ward, O'Shea - not of international standard. And if Trap means business he'll cut them loose before the WC qualifying begins.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree. Ditch Andrews and bring in Paul Green.

Seriously, I think Andrews still has a role to play in this qualifying campaign. Some of the players shown up as not good enough to compete with Spain and Italy will still be good enough to compete with Austria, Kazakhstan and Faroes. Germany will be tough no matter who we play and Sweden might just be a level Andrews could still do a job at.

[Charlie Darwin]

Andrews' showing at the Euros is definitive proof that he is a player of international quality. He showed up players like Richard Dunne and Robbie Keane who would otherwise be regarded as our most talented players. I've said it 100 times, international football is about more than just finesse - you need players with the guts to take the reins and drive the team forward. We had a player once who had both finesse and immense leadership qualities but unfortunately there is no Roy Keane in our ranks anymore and we have to rely on a lesser mix of players. The good thing is that many other countries lack the same sort of player.

[dong]

Andrews' showing at the Euros is definitive proof that he is a player of international quality.

Cant agree with you there.
Did you take a baton over the head at Dalymount the other night?

[Bungle]

I like Keith. I think he's a decent enough player who had a good tournament for us. I think he is useful against the likes of Kazakhstan and Austria. He will probably do a job for us against Sweden.

However, Gibson and McCarthy really need to be our midfield pairing in this campaign. I would love to see Conor Henderson, if he gets fit, getting game time in friendlies, but I just couldn't see Trap doing that. He probably doesn't even know who Conor Henderson is.

[tetsujin1979]

I like Keith. I think he's a decent enough player who had a good tournament for us. I think he is useful against the likes of Kazakhstan and Austria. He will probably do a job for us against Sweden.

However, Gibson and McCarthy really need to be our midfield pairing in this campaign. I would love to see Conor Henderson, if he gets fit, getting game time in friendlies, but I just couldn't see Trap doing that. He probably doesn't even know who Conor Henderson is.
Is this the same Conor Henderson who came through the Arsenal academy under the tutelage of Liam Brady, who used to be Trapattoni's assistant?

[geysir]

I like Keith. I think he's a decent enough player who had a good tournament for us. I think he is useful against the likes of Kazakhstan and Austria. He will probably do a job for us against Sweden.

However, Gibson and McCarthy really need to be our midfield pairing in this campaign. I would love to see Conor Henderson, if he gets fit, getting game time in friendlies, but I just couldn't see Trap doing that. He probably doesn't even know who Conor Henderson is.

It will be a hard task to emerge from the Euro campaign and take off from where we were before the Finals with a CM pair. That just won't cut it against those teams you mentioned. We got through a qualification campaign with a pair, now we need a trio, a quartet, maybe even a quintet. No harm to have Andrews in along with Gibson and McCarthy. But if had to shoot one of them, it would be Keith.

[Wolfie]

Rumours of Chris McCann move to Norwich.

Would be interesting to see how he'd link with Hoolohan at Club level. Pilkington knocking around there as well.

Maybe we'll trade in our Wolves club reps and upgrade to Norwich this season????

[paul_oshea]

Andrews is a limited player, I reckon a good impact sub with 20 minutes to go. As was the case for west brom for a lot of this season now that i think of it. A very good championship player but limited International. Don't be so naive as to be fooled moving his familywas a reason to not play in the premiership - or limited the possible clubs he would go to - premiership clubs know enough, like most of us, that keith is a hard working but limited player, who at 31 wont make much of an impact or get any better to invest in for the future. He will do a job in the first few qualifiers and possibly germany, then fazed out i hope.

I really hope we see the emergence of another battling midfielder with good technique emerge in the next couple of years. For now lets hope mccarthy and gibson keep performing and Trap plays them, i'm more worried about the latter to be honest. I really think Trap doesn't know what Mccarthys best position is either.

[Charlie Darwin]

He is a limited player, I don't dispute that. My point is that limited players often have certain qualities that make them excel at international level and, in my opinion, Andrews has those qualities. If James McCarthy was to step up to the plate, I'd be the first to say "thanks Keith, but your time is up," but until then I think he is arguably the driving force behind our entire team. We have struggled (more than usual) any time he has not been fit, more so than we've struggled when Dunne or Robbie were out.

[paul_oshea]

You just said in an earlier post that you couldn't understand why a premiership team wouldn't come in for him?

I agree with post 373 mind.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think most Premiership teams would love to have him. He's a player who can play well in both a midfield 4 and 5, passes well despite his critics and has been proven to score goals regularly at the top level. I was looking at Scott Parker during England's games with France and Italy and wondering what on earth he had that Andrews doesn't, yet he's at a club in or around the Champions League spots, and the answer is nothing.

Not to say Keith Andrews is a Champions League-standard player, just that Scott Parker isn't either.

[paul_oshea]

If they would loved to have had him, they would have bought him Charlie.

I think Parker, for spurs and for west ham was a great enforcer, always rated him, good at tackling and good at breaking up play. He is, in my opinion a completely different player to andrews, far less advanced, more in the mould of the stutts coined "holding midfielder".

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd say he's fairly middling at it, to be honest. Andrews is not a great player by any means but he has qualities that we as a national team lack. I'm not putting him in the same bracket, but he's the first player we've had since Roy Keane who has the moral courage to take control of a game and drive the team forward, and shuffling him out for flavours of the week like Hoolahan would be a huge mistake in my book.

[third policeman]

If James McCarthy was to step up to the plate, I'd be the first to say "thanks Keith, but your time is up," but until then I think he is arguably the driving force behind our entire team.


McCarthy can only step up to the plate if he is actually selected and therein lies the problem. I have nothing against Andrews and he made more of an impact than most in the Euros, but he is not the best we've got and should not be a contender for a starting place in the qualifiers.Gibson, McCarthy, Houlihan, Pilkington all performed more consistently in the Premiership last season and three of them have more to offer in the longterm as does McCann.The midfield is where we most need to rethink our selection, our formation and our footballing philosophy. Andrews gets stick as much for what he represents about the Trapp style and formation as anything else.

[jbyrne]

McCarthy can only step up to the plate if he is actually selected and therein lies the problem. I have nothing against Andrews and he made more of an impact than most in the Euros, but he is not the best we've got and should not be a contender for a starting place in the qualifiers.Gibson, McCarthy, Houlihan, Pilkington all performed more consistently in the Premiership last season and three of them have more to offer in the longterm as does McCann.The midfield is where we most need to rethink our selection, our formation and our footballing philosophy. Andrews gets stick as much for what he represents about the Trapp style and formation as anything else.

Gibson? probably not. has had his fair chance and never impressed.
McCarthy? agree. has to be given a good chance now.
Houlihan? was in and out of the Norwich team last year. unproven. has taken over the "world beater if only Trap would pick him" title from andy reid.
Pilkington? read somewhere that he is not even interested in playing for us.
McCann?? has shown nothing to show he has anything to offer at international level.

IMO Andrews has to be retained and a new partner found for him. Hopefully McCarthy.

[Closed Account 2]

I think it would be harsh to drop him given his performances at the Euros were decent. He isn't a world beater, but he's generally played well for us notably in Paris in 2009 and out in Tallinn in the play-offs. People talk about his age, and it might be a factor, but to be honest he looked a lot more athletic than Glenn Whelan who's around 2-3 years younger than him. Given the right conditions and training discipline there is no reason why he couldnt have another 2-4 years in him. Of the two of them (Whelan and him) I think he offers more to the team than Whelan - and to be honest I think Whelan might need to be dropped for a few games to motivate him in terms of re-gaining fitness as he looked spent before halftime in our games in Poland.

[Serb]

IMO Andrews has to be retained and a new partner found for him. Hopefully McCarthy.

I think this sentence makes the most sense out of the last few posts, but realistically, if we only find a new partner for Andrews, we're ignoring the bigger problem — we are dreadful against any reasonably good team when we play a two man central midfield. If we're to make progress in the next campaign there needs to be room for Andrews, McCarthy and one more CM (whether it's Whelan, Gibson or someone else).

[BonnieShels]

Last 4 posts echo my feelings on the matter.

I think Andrews, McCarthy and Gibson together in a three would be my favoured way forward.

[Irish_Praha]

Last 4 posts echo my feelings on the matter.

I think Andrews, McCarthy and Gibson together in a three would be my favoured way forward.

I would agree with something like that too but that would mean demoting Keane to the bench and striping him of his captaincy. He's probably still our best striker and has served us excellently over the years but sadly I think at this stage the benifits of using a 3 man CMF would outweight the loss of Keane. It should at least be tried anyway because we are slowly going nowhere with the current system.

[BonnieShels]

I would agree with something like that too but that would mean demoting Keane to the bench and striping him of his captaincy. He's probably still our best striker and has served us excellently over the years but sadly I think at this stage the benifits of using a 3 man CMF would outweight the loss of Keane. It should at least be tried anyway because we are slowly going nowhere with the current system.


I'd say we are going somewhere... backwards...

But if we changed to a 5 in the middle we have no choice but to drop Robbie.
I think at this stage Robbie should be looking to be resigning the captaincy cos it's what is holding us back.

Though Game one in a Fantasy Ireland 4-5-1 I would play him up top just for ****s and giggles.

I was discussing the merits of 3-5-2 the other night but I think I had a few beers on at that stage and the guys I were talking to just kept saying Sky Sports-esque banalities so I started to talk to girls instead.

[osarusan]

Houlihan? was in and out of the Norwich team last year. unproven. has taken over the "world beater if only Trap would pick him" title from andy reid.

Hoolahan. 33 premier league appearances last year, according to soccerbase. A bit more regular than 'in and out' of the team.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think he was 'in and out' in the sense that he would regularly be in the starting line-up one week and on the bench the next. I think that was a tactical consideration on Lambert's part though, playing one fewer creative player in games where they needed to be tight.

[SkStu]

so I started to talk to girls instead.

"no, no, no, the captain Morgan's and coke is the last defender..."

[SwanVsDalton]

I think I had a few beers on at that stage and the guys I were talking to just kept saying Sky Sports-esque banalities so I started to talk to girls instead.

Ideal promo quote for foot.ie. Get it on bus shelters asap.

[Mr A]

I hope you're not implying that there are girls on foot.ie. :confused:

[SwanVsDalton]

I hope you're not implying that there are girls on foot.ie. :confused:

No, no, no - the promo quote needs finessing, I was suggesting he quickly got off foot.ie.

[geysir]

I thought Swan was implying that instead of a frustrated football man having to resort to the pits of social intercourse, he could instead log on to footie and meet like minds.

[DeLorean]

Today FM's 'Live after 5' programme had a recording of an interview with Keith Andrews on Saturday. Now I'd be fairly pro-Trap but listening to Andrews was kind of depressing. He basically said that if they could play the Germany game again tomorrow, there's every chance the result would be the same. He said that we have to accept that we're not going to beat the really top teams and once we're challenging for second spot in the group then everything is okay.

Whether he's right or wrong, I don't think I've ever heard such a defeatist attitude from an Irish player, and it obviously stems from Trap's comments in the wake of the Germany match. At least when Trap said it, you could attribute the bluntness to his broken English to some degree. In a week where Celtic had beaten Barcelona I think I found it extra hard to take, not to mention Sweden's result in Berlin since the Aviva massacre. I think it's particularly unhealthy as we still have to go to Cologne.

Surely staying positive should be a minimum requirement. Being realistic is one thing, like accepting you're not going to win every match. There's a big difference between that and accepting you simply can't beat the top teams. Andrews was on a chat show before the Euros, can't remember if it was the Late Late or Brendan O'Connor's, and he was asked how he expected us to do in the competition. That night he was full of optimism, saying they're under no illusions but the dream has to be to win it and that they can take inspiration from Greece, etc. I really don't understand how the ambition can go from that, to not even giving yourself a chance in a one-off game in a few short months, however turbulent they may have been.

[Charlie Darwin]

That doesn't sound at all like Andrews. If he's given up hope then we all might as well just go home.

[DeLorean]

That doesn't sound at all like Andrews. If he's given up hope then we all might as well just go home.

Yeah it's not like the overriding mood of the interview was negative or anything, I just don't think he would have made those kind of statements without Trap basically saying the same thing first. I think it's a really poor attitude and, like I say, I'd be generally more of a Trap defender. Anyway, I found it so ye can decide for yourselves.

Keith Andrews Interview (http://www.todayfm.com/Home.aspx)

Click on 'Listen Back' icon (Third icon from the right on top of the page)
Scroll down to 'Premier League Live'
Click on 'Part 4'
The interview begins bang on 25mins (and was actually live, not a recording as I suggested earlier)

[geysir]

I take your point Del, but I'm more concerned at how far we are behind Greece these days and considering Greece were hit by a German whirlwind at the Euros even though they played decent enough football.

[Kingdom]

I take your point Del, but I'm more concerned at how far we are behind Greece these days and considering Greece were hit by a German whirlwind at the Euros even though they played decent enough football.

That's a really fair point actually. Greece are a serious outfit these days (although they have benefited from some "nice" groups in recent times [Wc 2010 & playoff in particular]) but still took 4 & 6 points from Croatia and Israel last time out, and only for a post-Euro 2004 hangover where they only took 2 points from games against Albania, Ukraine and Turkey, they'd have qualified for 5 on the spin.

Andrews is a clever guy. I can't listen to the Interview, but i wonder is it a case that he knows Trapattoni is going to stay loyal to 442 which meant we'd never compete with die Mannschaft as we'd constantly cede possession to them?

[DeLorean]

I take your point Del, but I'm more concerned at how far we are behind Greece these days and considering Greece were hit by a German whirlwind at the Euros even though they played decent enough football.

Do you mean you're more worried about the here and now (i.e. the game against Greece tomorrow)?

[geysir]

Not the game itself but I'd be worried if the Greeks confirm their better status and we don't measure up to them.

[Colbert Report]

Why is Andrews not in the starting line-up for the Greece match?

[Charlie Darwin]

Because Whelan is playing instead.