Unemployment

[NeilMcD]

That maybe true but I do not think it would make good economic sense to employ more public sector workers in social welfare to deal with a temporary problem. This is where I do think that the public sector can be more flexible to deal with issues like this.

[pete]

That maybe true but I do not think it would make good economic sense to employ more public sector workers in social welfare to deal with a temporary problem. This is where I do think that the public sector can be more flexible to deal with issues like this.

If you take more staff on now if unemployment drops in years to come seems department would have no use for those staff. The system should be flexible enough that can take people on for contract period or move from other departments. There must surely be other areas who were busy in a boom but under utilised in a recession? The office that provided work visa must be quiet now?

[BohsPartisan]

If you take more staff on now if unemployment drops in years to come seems department would have no use for those staff. The system should be flexible enough that can take people on for contract period or move from other departments. There must surely be other areas who were busy in a boom but under utilised in a recession? The office that provided work visa must be quiet now?

True. There should be a priority on SW at the moment in terms of staff movement. Unfortunately the higher ups in most departments would probably be reluctant to agree.

[bennocelt]

Talking about cutbacks etc - esp in the health service - did anyone notice in this sunday's Indo that they are spending 20 million on a few jeeps for the Irish army - which might rise in the future -

Its a great country we live in - no beds available in hospitals but big toys for our non existent army

[Sligo Hornet]

Talking about cutbacks etc - esp in the health service - did anyone notice in this sunday's Indo that they are spending 20 million on a few jeeps for the Irish army - which might rise in the future -

Its a great country we live in - no beds available in hospitals but big toys for our non existent army

Is this where they are getting them from?

http://i38.tinypic.com/24eqpzk.jpg

[mypost]

Blunder Lenihan on tv3's "Political Party" last week.

When asked would a speculative figure of 400,000 unemployed be a concern to him next year, he looks at the figures in percentage terms than the specific numbers unemployed. He seemed to think that because the figure wasn't 20% like in the 80's, there was little to worry about. :rolleyes:

No matter how few times you say it, 277,000 on the dole is a lot of people. Next month, there will be a massacre in jobs lost. Telling them effectively that it doesn't matter to the government, is not going to go down well. :mad:

[pete]

The country holds its breath this week awaiting the government rescue plan.

:eek:

[pete]

Unemployment up to 8.3% in December (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0109/breaking31.htm)



Irish unemployment rose to ten-year high of 8.3 per cent at the end of 2008 as the number of jobless people claiming benefits surged by a record 121,100 in the year to December.

The Live Register of jobseekers' benefit and allowance claimants grew by 16,300 people last month, according to seasonally adjusted figures released by the Central Statistics Office (CSO) this morning.

This is the secondly highest monthly total on record, just behind the 16,700 recorded in November. On an unadjusted basis the December rise was a record 22,777.

During 2008 the number of claimants soared by a record 71 per cent to bring the total number of claimants to 293,500. This is the highest level of claimants since December 1993, according to the CSO.


I suppose another rise is expected for January given unable to claim when the social welfare office closed over Christmas.

[mypost]

Unemployment figures now standing at their highest since pre-Celtic Tiger days, even if some of the figures this month may be a knock-on effect of the pork crisis, before it was sorted out.

Our TD's have shown their commitment to dealing with the national emergency, by not re-sitting for another 18 days. :mad: The political will isn't there to tackle urgent issues facing the state. This inertia is an example why agreements/solutions take years rather than months to finalise.

[mypost]

Was down at the local welfare office today, which covers 3 suburbs. The dole queue there is now at least 75 minutes long. What will it be like when the figure reaches beyond 10%?

The Commons sat today in London. At least they're appearing to look for solutions. Ours don't sit for another 2 weeks, and instead of trying to get the economy back on track, are cynically using the current situation imo as a propaganda tool in order to force-feed us the EU Constitution, warning of economic armageddon if we don't swallow it later this year, in order to save their own jobs, rather than create new ones.

It'll be armageddon regardless of what the outcome is, and those numbers will keep rising.

[Reality Bites]

A Little aside but Why Why Why were Anglo-Irish Allowed to survive and Why were the Head of Management in the Major Banks sacked with no golden handshake!! - The Reason - Cowen is a Gutless Piece of Crap.

[OneRedArmy]

Was talking with someone this morning and we both agreed that if Sean Fitzpatrick had done what he did in the US, he'd be doing the "perp walk" in regular metal handcuffs (as opposed to the golden variety).

But then again, should the endemic institutional corruptness surprise us, after all we've just sat through a decade of tribunals where the only sanctions were a few contempt of courts charges.

[pete]

Prosecution let alone jail time does not happen for white collar crimes in this country. Sure I think in the "banana case" insider trading was pretty much proven but only given a fine. (maybe someone more familiar with that can fill in the blanks)

[Reality Bites]

That Dole queue in Galway on the Six One News was very much a sign of the times.. desperately sad.

[Scrufil]

I've been 'happily sick' and unable to work for the last year and I've been surviving on illness benefit. Thats all well and good but why, oh why, oh why am I being head-hunted for a new job when everyone else is losing their jobs?!!! I didn't even think I was any good at my job. This whole world is twisty, turny, upside down. :confused:

[mypost]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0126/ulsterbank.html

[Poor Student]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0126/ulsterbank.html

It makes sense. There are many locations with Ulster Bank and First Active in close proximity with little to gain from it. First Active were mainly mortgage specialists and that market has dried up.

[mypost]

It's the amount of jobs lost that's the problem. They don't all work for FA. You can't close a place and at the same time, ask for voluntary redundancies. Once those jobs are gone, they're gone.

That register could easily hit 25k next month, if keeping with previous monthly totals, plus the January cuts.

[pete]

It makes sense. There are many locations with Ulster Bank and First Active in close proximity with little to gain from it. First Active were mainly mortgage specialists and that market has dried up.

Harsh on the people who lose their jobs but that decision is likely to safeguard the jobs of the other staff in Ulster Bank.

[brianw82]

Walked by FAS just outside the Jervis St LUAS stop on Monday. Place was wedged.

[Fr Damo]

[quote=bennocelt;1075720]Talking about cutbacks etc - esp in the health service - did anyone notice in this sunday's Indo that they are spending 20 million on a few jeeps for the Irish army - which might rise in the future -


I was involved in a tender with the Army in 08 and the tender I was quoting for is related somwhat to these vehicles. We quoted say 10K for a particular product. This was being made at our UK factory, and was to a high spec as we do something similar for the British MOD. We lost the tender by about a grand and it went to an Irish company (no real problem with that, keep it in the family) I now learn the winner quoted for a much more basic piece of kit and is being asked to upgrade his offering. He isn't prepared to do that at his cost so the Army are buying the parts to upgrade and issuing to him free to retro fit. This will therefore make his product about a grand more than ours!

In relation to the jeeps, If I told you the winning company's product was found not to be fit for purpose, what would you say??

Irish Public verses Private sector in a nutshell

[mypost]

That register could easily hit 25k next month, if keeping with previous monthly totals, plus the January cuts

Damage 9.2% now.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0204/employment.html

[Reality Bites]

Damage 9.2% now.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0204/employment.html

Makes Dorans comments (the Nurses Union man) look beyond ridiculous, I think he said something like - not that many people in the private sector have lost jobs:confused:

[mypost]

Almost 50,000 signed on since December. Ireland Inc. is closed.

[pete]

Almost 50,000 signed on since December. Ireland Inc. is closed.

No extra taxes or levys for them just subsistence level dole.

[mypost]

And that's to mean what exactly? :confused:

I'd like to see them public sector workers trying to survive on €200 a week, every week. When it's a choice of a levy or le dole, you don't take too long to make your decision.

During the winter break, Cowen and members of the Cabinet went off on another trek to Japan. But there's little point in flying halfway around the world to drum up investment, when there's nothing at home to invest in. All it succeeded in doing was wasting time.

No wonder Nob Nation on 2FM dub his cabinet, "The Drinks Cabinet". :D:rolleyes:

[pete]

And that's to mean what exactly? :confused:


The 300+k people unemployed would probably love to be worrying about extra cost of paying for their pension.

[Macy]

The 300+k people unemployed would probably love to be worrying about extra cost of paying for their pension.
:rolleyes: And there are plenty of people in the private sector who don't have to worry about a pensions levy or redundancy. This onedownmanship (?) is ridiculous. Of course people who lose their jobs would like one, and equally of course people aren't going to be happy at being much more heavily taxed. It's not some sort of bloody competition.

You should both be having a go at the people that are on 100,000's of thousands that are still getting increases and have pensions that would dwarf anything that the ordinary joe soap public sector worker gets. Or the tax exiles that hailed as hero's when they contribute only to their own personal follies in this state.

[NeilMcD]

Well said Macy both Pete and mypost have fallen for the old trick and the right wing media and the likes of IBEC have turned this as private versus public. What do they say divide and conquer and guys you have fallen for it big time.

[KevB76]

And there are plenty of people in the private sector who don't have to worry about .... redundancy.


Are you serious !?!

I can assure you there are far more of us that do have genuine reason to worry. We've already had redundancies at my place, and theres a very real risk there could be more.
A lot of our clients have let people go, and things have gone ominously quiet with a lot more of them.
Our suppliers obviuosly are in a similar situation.

Tell me, who are these private sector people you've been speaking to who aren't worried? I need to know where to apply for my next job....

[mypost]

The 300+k people unemployed would probably love to be worrying about extra cost of paying for their pension.

The 326k unemployed are worried. Worried about when they will find a job.

In contrast, those in the public sector whinging about paying taxes have little to worry about.

[Dodge]

In contrast, those in the public sector whinging about paying taxes have little to worry about.

Apart from mortgage, child minders, car payments, rising bills etc etc

The uneducated ****e coming from some people in this thread is shocking.

[NeilMcD]

The 326k unemployed are worried. Worried about when they will find a job.

In contrast, those in the public sector whinging about paying taxes have little to worry about.

Why is your vitriol turned at the public sector workers who have not causd this rather than the people who have. Developers bankers politicians etc. Is it that you are jealous that of the conditions that other workers have fought for and kept. I feel sorry for anybody who loses a job and I am sure public sector workers do not live in isolation. Many will have wives, husbans, brothers, sisters fathers mothers children who are losing their job at the moment. So this idea that we live in areas or cocoons based on whether you are private or public is a nonsense. I think most public sector workers are willing to contribute to the health of the nation but they also want to see heads rolling in banks and tax breaks for the property developers stopped and more of a contribution from the people who have raked it in over the last 15 years.

[mypost]

Apart from mortgage, child minders, car payments, rising bills etc etc

Bar child minders, that also applies to those on the dole.

Bottom line is, if you have a job, then you can manage. If you don't have a job, with almost the same demands, you're treading water on €10k a year.

[NeilMcD]

Yeah but nobody should be made feel ashamed or embarassed for having a stable job. The media are creating a frenzy around this and certain people are falling for it. Nobody should be embarassed to be in a good stable job the same way nobody should be embarassed about being unemployed which was the way during the so called Celtic Tiger.

[mypost]

Nobody should be embarassed about being unemployed which was the way during the so called Celtic Tiger.

You're not seen so much of a pariah now than say, 3 years ago, but you still try to avoid the "U" subject unless absolutely necessary. You still get stigmatised for it as to many, it's merely a figure they hear of once a month, rather than a problem with a human face to it.

[NeilMcD]

I would not be so sure about that. I know people who have lost their jobs, I have been unemployed myself, I have had relatives who have had aswell. It goes back to what I was saying that the public private divide is madness because most peoples lives are intertwined with those in the public and private. Where there is a divide in Irish life is the lower income people and those who are inside the Fianna Fail tent at the galway Races or the bankers. These are the people who should be facing both the criticism and the brunt of the down turn. However the right wing media in this country esp the Sunday Indo like to have a go with those who do have jobs and have a go at unions and basically blame them for the unemployment figures and for the state of the country rather than the real culprits. Why because the people who finance the paper and who have shares in it are those same people

[pete]

I feel the only way to survive the recession is to keep your job even if that means pay cuts or freezes. While some prices will increase a lot of things like mortgages will decrease.

I am sure some employers will try to take advantages by cutting wages but I suppose that will depend on the industry.

[micls]

And what about the public sector workers who had to take the pay cut AND will lose their jobs in the next few months?

[KevB76]

And what about the public sector workers who had to take the pay cut AND will lose their jobs in the next few months?

I dont mean to be flippant but the pay cut will no longer be relevant to them when they are let go.
They are in the same boat as the rest of us who have already had a cut, survived the first cull, but dont know from one month to the next how long our job will hold out.

[micls]

I dont mean to be flippant but the pay cut will no longer be relevant to them when they are let go.
They are in the same boat as the rest of us who have already had a cut, survived the first cull, but dont know from one month to the next how long our job will hold out.

The public sector are being told they are getting the cut because they have job security. Thats basically been the argument, and its one I agree with to an extent.

You cant then use that argument but also cut the pay of those who dont have the job security.

Personally I think a pay cut for permanent workers and a pay freeze(we were all due increases) for temporary workers would have been fair.

You're punishing those that cant afford to pay for the mistakes of others. Just because the same is happening in other areas doesnt make it fair for the government to do the same

[NeilMcD]

Lads this reminds me of two mice fighting over a tiny little crumb of cheese while the cat walks away with the cream the cheese sandwich and the lobster. Refocus your anger at the people who caused this not at people who decided to go for steady dependable jobs.

[KevB76]

The public sector are being told they are getting the cut because they have job security. Thats basically been the argument, and its one I agree with to an extent.

You cant then use that argument but also cut the pay of those who dont have the job security.




Yeah I see your point, it seems harsh alright (from the point of view of somebody from the public service ethos).

But what I'm saying is they are no worse off than hordes of us in who have had cuts for other (obvious) reasons, and are still at risk of being let go. Whilst I can empathise with these people, dont expect me to feel sorry for them. Welcome to my world.

I'll tell you who I do feel sorry for though, is the public service workers on say €30000 or less who've been hit with this new pensions levy, thats really going to make things diifcult for them. It just goes to show how far removed from reality the likes of Martin "its only 3%" Manseragh and the other tools are.
Its fine for them to lose 9% off a salary 5-10 times greater than your average person, what do they even need to use the salary for when they've expenses 2 or 3 times a normal wage! How could they possibly have any idea what its like to get by on a normal wage? They havent a clue.

Sorry, rant over :o

[NeilMcD]

One final thing I would like to say is that erosion of workers rights whether its public or private is an erosion of all workers rights. If public service pensions are eroded and the defined benefit is eroded well then private workers rights will be further eroded. The greatest mistake the unions and government let happen was the idea of defined contribution and the idea that people should play with peoples pensions and lives on the stock market. A pension is far too important for that, however people see pay increases and jump for them at the the time and then pay for it in the long run. Its like who will win the race the snail or the hare and its seems that the person with defined benefit is the snail.

[Sligo Hornet]

One final thing I would like to say is that erosion of workers rights whether its public or private is an erosion of all workers rights. If public service pensions are eroded and the defined benefit is eroded well then private workers rights will be further eroded. The greatest mistake the unions and government let happen was the idea of defined contribution and the idea that people should play with peoples pensions and lives on the stock market. A pension is far too important for that, however people see pay increases and jump for them at the the time and then pay for it in the long run. Its like who will win the race the snail or the hare and its seems that the person with defined benefit is the snail.


What happened to the tortoise.......did he drop out due to a pulled hamstring?

[Reality Bites]

Kudos to the teacher Union going to the Anglo-Irish Banks to pitch their fury at Pension Levy.. This indeed is where the problem was created the avarice greed of that ******* Seanie Fitzpatrick and his cronies... I was apoplectic today when i heard the banking sector couldn't take a paycut due to some contractural clause.. shameful hiding bedind their vulture lawyers - Shameful Shameful... Next stage of the protest should be a march to AIB's Sheedys headmans hidouts and BOI Brian Gogan following by Tarring and feathering Drumm and Fitzpatrick and a match of shame down O'Connell Street

[Dodge]

AFAIk teachers are protesting about general cuts in Education rather than the pay cut

[NeilMcD]

What happened to the tortoise.......did he drop out due to a pulled hamstring?

He lost his job in the recession. At least he has a home he does not have to pay a mortgage on though.

[OneRedArmy]

Kudos to the teacher Union going to the Anglo-Irish Banks to pitch their fury at Pension Levy.. This indeed is where the problem was created the avarice greed of that ******* Seanie Fitzpatrick and his cronies... I was apoplectic today when i heard the banking sector couldn't take a paycut due to some contractural clause.. shameful hiding bedind their vulture lawyers - Shameful Shameful... Next stage of the protest should be a march to AIB's Sheedys headmans hidouts and BOI Brian Gogan following by Tarring and feathering Drumm and Fitzpatrick and a match of shame down O'Connell StreetDo you blame the barman for your hangover?

Anyway, I can't wait 'til the end of the school year so I can picket the schoolgates for wasting my taxmoney on 4 month summer holidays...

P.S. Little known factoid, the collective noun for a group of teachers is a moan...

[NeilMcD]

4 months, who gets four months.