Terry Venables

[reder]

By the looks of it the FAI are willing to offer him a 7 figure sum contract but this means he will have to take a pay cut of about €300K from his England job.

[Sligo Hornet]

By the looks of it the FAI are willing to offer him a 7 figure sum contract but this means he will have to take a pay cut of about €300K from his England job.

And that was a really taxing role.....all he had to do was look after McLaren's umbrella!;)

[Stuttgart88]

But he doesn't have an England job!

My reading is that they want to offer it to Houllier but he won't / can't commit just yet and failing that they'll have little choice but to offer it to Venables.

By that stage he'll call all the shots and can dictate his own terms. Delaney will be powerless to object.

McDonnell in The Indo (mischievously) suggests that Venables wants Kevin Nolan on board, but McDonnell correctly points out that Nolan is actually ineligible.

[NeilMcD]

By Daniel McDonnell
Thursday January 24 2008

DON GIVENS will today name the squad for Ireland's February 6 friendly with Brazil but the speed of response from Gerard Houllier will determine who is in charge for the Croke Park encounter.

Givens, who was in the dug-out for the 2-2 draw with Wales in November, is likely to continue in the position for the glamour meeting with the South Americans unless himself and his selection panel colleagues of Don Howe and Ray Houghton ratify a new man in the interim.

Houllier is mulling over the opportunity to take the Irish hotseat and should give his answer by the weekend, although the FAI's 10-man board of management would then have to give the all-clear to the financial outlay involved in backing the Frenchman.

The lengthy delay continues to frustrate with players Lee Carsley and Kevin Kilbane stating that they are in the dark about proceedings.

"Like the rest of the players, I'd like for it to be sorted sooner rather than later," said Carsley.

"We've an important game coming up in February which is one of those building towards the next campaign.

"So it's important we get someone in place as soon as we can. Clearly, anyone and everyone has been linked to the post.

"I only hear from my family in Ireland who is being linked because as players we're out of the loop. But they want to know what is going on as soon as I do.

Kilbane admitted that he is in a similar situation, stating that: "We don't know anything. We're just reading what everybody else is reading with a new name seeming to be coming up every week.

"But the panel appear to be going down the right channels and speaking to the right people so we will wait and see."

Both veterans had been part of a delegation that spoke to John Delaney prior to that game with Wales and one name that was mentioned at that juncture and still remains on the radar is that of Terry Venables. The long-time favourite has drifted in the betting and, while the popular theory is that he impressed in his interview, alternative sources suggest that the panel were far from enthused.

It has been reported since then that Venables had mentioned the capture of Bolton's Kevin Nolan as a priority although if that is true then it is misguided as the window by which the 25-year-old Liverpudlian could declare for Ireland has long since passed.

Allied with opposition that is understood to exist within the FAI, the chances of Venables landing the job look remote with Houllier ahead of him in the preferred pecking order. However, reports in the UK yesterday suggested that the ex-Spurs boss had cooled his interest in the Irish job due to grievances he had about the length of the contract on offer.

Issues of that nature are likely to be the main talking point today when Givens names his panel rather than the make-up of the party itself.

His squad is unlikely to be packed with surprises. Notable absentees will include defender Steve Finnan, who retired from the international game earlier this week, and midfielder Andy Reid who is currently on the long term injury list at Charlton.

- Daniel McDonnell

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/houllier-ponders-irish-move-as-givenstoils-on-two-fronts-before-brazil-clash-1272533.html

[Noelys Guitar]

I have heard of the media campaign to get Venables the job. What about the media campaign to prevent Venners getting the job? McDonnel in the Indo. All of the Examiner.

[Stuttgart88]

All of the Examiner.

Except Liam Mackey.

[Ireland4ever]

In fairness these interviews with players are pointless. What do the reporters expect him to say, ''Na, i wouldnt like El Tel, think he's a crap manager only out for a quick buck'' He's gonna have to say that same spiel about every manager just in case he gets the job.

[Stuttgart88]

In what context did he "endorse" Venables? Was he asked to choose between Venables, Houllier or Coppell?

One of the biggest objections to Venables earlier in the process was the tide of player and pundit "endorsements" that were anything but. Doyle's was one of the worst and Stephen Hunt once said he'd like him on the basis that Nicky Shorey was in one England squad and said he was OK.

[eekers]

who does joe lapira want?

[Bondvillain]

who does joe lapira want?

John Madden, I believe.

[eekers]

John Madden, I believe.

well the fai can only get madden '94 i'm afraid

[Bondvillain]

well the fai can only get madden '94 i'm afraid

Bummer. I hear the FAI Megadrive controller was lost in the move to abbotstown.

[NeilMcD]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/venables-cv-ticks-all-the-right-boxes-says-hughton-1275567.html

[eekers]

It's hard to talk about other people's qualities," he continued, "But if you were to ask me if he was a good candidate for the job, I would say yes, most definitely


if asked about houllier no doubt he would say the same.
and probably the same about all the candidates.

[Noelys Guitar]

if asked about houllier no doubt he would say the same.
and probably the same about all the candidates.

The interview was on RTE and Hughton was asked who would he like to see as Ireland manager. He said not sure but if it was to be Venables then he would be a good choice.

[geysir]

As each preferred candidate bites the dust we look for reasons to be cheerful about Venables.

[NeilMcD]

I see Duffer was hit with the usual questions about Venables by TV3 and said that he has received rave reviews from some of the lads at Newcaslte and players he has chatted too. He said he is heard he is a great coach and great with the players etc etc, cliche cliche cliche.

[kingdomkerry]

I see Duffer was hit with the usual questions about Venables by TV3 and said that he has received rave reviews from some of the lads at Newcaslte and players he has chatted too. He said he is heard he is a great coach and great with the players etc etc, cliche cliche cliche.

I watched that too. What is your point?

[eirebhoy]

Duff heard Venables is an excellent coach. Is that not a good enough post in a 44 page thread. ;) That seems to be the opinion of many players and it's the only thing keeping me going with Venables back favourite again.

[NeilMcD]

I dont have a point, I am just letting people know who may have not seen it. What is your point.

[Bondvillain]

The media, given an opportunity, will always ask players in this situation what their opinons are of potential managers.

The players, to a man , will 99% of the time give the standard "Great manager, heard good things about him, couldnt be discounted, deserves respect, would be a good catch" blah blah blah.

How could they say anything else? They may think he's the biggest gimp on the planet, but he may well be their boss by the end of the week, and no-one wants to p!ss on their chips before a ball is kicked, and be made a sacrificial scapegoat in the media by the new "no nonsense" "gaffer".

These interviews are to be taken with a pinch of salt. They're just quote chasers from a media who are as much if not more in the dark about what the FAI are playing at as we are.

[Billy Lord]

I'm amazed anyone cares.

[OwlsFan]

Other than Roy Keane, I have seldom heard a player utter anything other than a banality and there are good reasons for that. See the trouble that erupts (e.g. in Keane's instance(s)), when they proffer an opinion on something. Imagine if Duff had said "Venables is useless and I don't want him as manager" and then Vegetables is appointed. Where would that leave Duffer other than with a lot of egg on his face and bridges to mend?

Keep the players out of such matters.

[Stuttgart88]

So no-marks like Alan Smith and Nickey Shorey get to endorse Venables for us.

[tetsujin1979]

So no-marks like Alan Smith and Nickey Shorey get to endorse Venables for us.

On that point, from today's Independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/duff-on-1277860.html

Duff On Terry Venables?I've asked a few of the players, like Alan Smith, about him and he gave rave reviews. Steve Round, our assistant, was with him at England and said I'd love him as well. I've heard nothing but good reports so if he gets it, then it'd be brilliant.

[NeilMcD]

I think if Venables got the job this is the team he would pick.

Given

S.Kelly R. Dunne J O'Shea

L. Carsley

Duff S. Reid A. Reid S.Hunt


R. Keane K. Doyle

[eekers]

I think if Venables got the job this is the team he would pick.

Given

S.Kelly R. Dunne J O'Shea

L. Carsley

Duff S. Reid A. Reid S.Hunt


R. Keane K. Doyle

im pretty sure i was informed he ditched the 352 and played a 442 with australia

[NeilMcD]

im pretty sure i was informed he ditched the 352 and played a 442 with australia

Croatia away for England he was the man behind the 3 5 2 according to the rumour.

[citizenerased]

Yeah thats true..more his 4 3 2 1 ...the famous xmas tree formation that he donned

[tetsujin1979]

Croatia away for England he was the man behind the 3 5 2 according to the rumour.
that;s true, up until then the England team had a settled back 4. don't think they had conceded in a competitive game either. and then they lost.

[carloz]

In fairness to Venables, he wanted to play Rio Ferdinand at the centre of the 3-5-2 against Croatia. McClaren overruled him and put Terry at the centre of the 3 man defence. Having Terry at the centre of a three man defence is beyond stupid

[Stuttgart88]

They lost to a better team though and mainly because of dreadful or unlucky goalkeeping for both goals. They also lost in Russia, drew with Israel away and Macedonia at home and lost at home to Croatia using 442.

Like Neil and I were exchanging views earlier on another thread there are several good permutations on paper using our better non-defenders.

We have 2 good wide players in a 4 man midfield. We have players who can play the "1" in a 4312. We prefer to have 2 upfront because 433/451 exposes us to Portugal's problem - lack of a really reliable goalscorer which places emphasis on goals from midfield. Hence if we had the players to play 3 at the back then it could work. I've long advocated considering it at home to weaker teams intent on defending, I wouldn't be so convinced away from home. I also think that if left back is such a problem for us then maybe we shouldn't play with one.

If we were to tinker with the shape my belief is that 4231 is most likely to yield results but realistically a good manager, one who can quickly identify the flaws and stengths of our best XI, ought to be able to pick a balanced team and allocate roles within a straightforward shape.

A few years back I heard the much derided Ranieri asking why not, if even just for 10 minutes at a time, alter your team's shape to gain a tactical advantage over your opponent?

I personally don't support the theory that we can only play 442 but I'm convinced that whatever formation you play you should only ask players to perform roles they understand and have the attributes to execute.

[Noelys Guitar]

Venables the player tried some innovative free kicks. He was the first player in England to lift the ball off the ground from a free kick using both feet so a team mate could volley a shot on goal. This was later banned so Venables started lifting the ball with one foot so a team mate could volley on goal. That was also banned because it was felt the foot touched the ball more than once. Free kicks and set pieces are something we must improve on if we are going to get out of this group. Hopefully Venables will work on those.

[eirebhoy]

3-5-2 is really just an attacking version of 5-3-2. If your wing backs aren't good enough to play full back then they're probably not going to be good enough wing backs.

[jmurphyc]

Free kicks and set pieces are something we must improve on if we are going to get out of this group. Hopefully Venables will work on those.

Agreed. Our set pieces under both Kerr and Staunton (can't remember what it was like under McCarthy) were quite poor. Hopefully a good manager will be able to identify both our strengths and weaknesses and the opposition's as it could definitely help us to win tight games. Too many managers underestimate the importance of set pieces, although it does seem as though this is starting to change.

[eekers]

3-5-2 is really just an attacking version of 5-3-2. If your wing backs aren't good enough to play full back then they're probably not going to be good enough wing backs.

not venables 352 at euro 96 he had mcmanaman and anderton as wing backs (definately not good enough for fullbacks) and played two full backs (pearce and neville) as centre backs

[Stuttgart88]

Even though Mourinho's gone have you noticed how many points Chelsea has picked up recently from set pieces? Set pieces are crucial and are one of the few things a manager can actually perfect with the limited amount of time he'd have with international players. The value of a goal doesn't increase because of artistic merit.

[ken foree]

The value of a goal doesn't increase because of artistic merit.

a great point that should be drilled into robbie's head! :p

[eekers]

a great point that should be drilled into robbie's head! :p

not really relevant to him anymore is it? top scorer in 2007 in the premiership and all

[ken foree]

not really relevant to him anymore is it? top scorer in 2007 in the premiership and all

this being the ireland forum i'm afraid it's all-too relevant. at least for now.

[Stuttgart88]

In the Premiership Robbie has been able to score those ugly poacher's goals for a year or two at least now. Look at his goal at OT on Sunday. He doesn't have the weight of the world on his shoulders at Spurs and doesn't feel he has to muck in 30 yards from his own goal at Spurs. He also gets great wide service at Spurs at times, and we've had Duff missing for ages now. In fact I remember Robbie getting stick on this site for his tap in (well, more for the celebration) after Duff beat 54 players setting up Robbie for a tap in against the Faroes at home under Kerr. Poor guy can't win!

If Ireland had a more functional midfield Robbie's international form could match his club form in my opinion.

[eekers]

this being the ireland forum i'm afraid it's all-too relevant. at least for now.

well i seem to remember him scoring in the last game

[tetsujin1979]

In fairness to Venables, he wanted to play Rio Ferdinand at the centre of the 3-5-2 against Croatia. McClaren overruled him and put Terry at the centre of the 3 man defence. Having Terry at the centre of a three man defence is beyond stupid
Putting him in either of the outside 2 centre halves would have been suicide, his pace would have been drastically exposed, leaving the other 2 defenders to cover for him.


Venables the player tried some innovative free kicks. He was the first player in England to lift the ball off the ground from a free kick using both feet so a team mate could volley a shot on goal. This was later banned so Venables started lifting the ball with one foot so a team mate could volley on goal. That was also banned because it was felt the foot touched the ball more than once. Free kicks and set pieces are something we must improve on if we are going to get out of this group. Hopefully Venables will work on those.
Fantastic, but has he done anything with free kicks since the 70's then? How were England's free kicks in the last qualifiers?

[Paddy Garcia]

this being the ireland forum i'm afraid it's all-too relevant. at least for now.

We should either thank Robbie for dropping back to fill in for a non-existent midfield or apologise for him having to do so.

Or as some suggest we can blame him, then again I also thought he was our top scorer ?

He (who is) may not be perfect, but I believe he cares & has always given his best. And frankly that has been more than good enough for us. The way we whinge - I'm not at all sure we deserve him.

[Paddy Garcia]

On that point, from today's Independent: [url]http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/duff-on-1277860.html[/url
Duff On Terry Venables?I've asked a few of the players, like Alan Smith, ]about him and he gave rave reviews. Steve Round, our assistant, was with him at England and said I'd love him as well. I've heard nothing but good reports so if he gets it, then it'd be brilliant.

That's hardly a banal response. More a ringing endorsement.

[tetsujin1979]

That's hardly a banal response. More a ringing endorsement.
Stutts had pointed out that no Irish player in the current squad, other than Keane, has played under Venables, so all they've got to go on is their club mates views on Venables. Duff spoke to Alan Smith about him, and he gave Venables a rave review. Given that Leeds under Venables were dire, I'm not taking that as anything.

I checked out Smith's record under Venables, 8 goals, 12 bookings ans 2 sendings of. 4 of those goals came in one game against Hapoel Tel Aviv, 1 was against Metalurg! doesn't look like he got the best out of Smith does it?

Come to think of it, if Robbie Keane is the only player in the squad to play under Venables, why hasn't any reporter asked him what he thinks of Venables, and what kind of job he'd do for Ireland??

I reckon some of the other views on the forum, that noone wants to say anything bad about Venables in case he does become manager and it affects their chances of a place in the squad are right on the money.

[Paddy Garcia]

Stutts had pointed out that no Irish player in the current squad, other than Keane, has played under Venables, so all they've got to go on is their club mates views on Venables. Duff spoke to Alan Smith about him, and he gave Venables a rave review. Given that Leeds under Venables were dire, I'm not taking that as anything.

I checked out Smith's record under Venables, 8 goals, 12 bookings ans 2 sendings of. 4 of those goals came in one game against Hapoel Tel Aviv, 1 was against Metalurg! doesn't look like he got the best out of Smith does it?

Come to think of it, if Robbie Keane is the only player in the squad to play under Venables, why hasn't any reporter asked him what he thinks of Venables, and what kind of job he'd do for Ireland??

I reckon some of the other views on the forum, that noone wants to say anything bad about Venables in case he does become manager and it affects their chances of a place in the squad are right on the money.


Whilst they may not have played under him, I'd like to think that they have at least as good an insight as us. And we are not short of opinions. So no need to write them off cos they have not played for him directly - it's a very very very small world for these guys.

The point I was making was that Duff could have avoided offending Venables yet still fallen well short of calling his potential appointment "brilliant".

[Stuttgart88]

But was Duff asked at any point in time what he'd think of playing for Coppell, Hodgson (again in Duff's case), Houllier or even bloody Trappatoni?

That's the whole point here Paddy. Nickey Shorey who was once in England's squad in their last campaign told Hunt that Venables was good so it gets printed that Hunt wants Venables. Doyle was asked something similarly banal and gave an equally meaningless response. Then we get Duff. At least Chris Hughton qualified his endorsement saying Venables is good but he can't comment on any other candidaes.

It's like an election in some tinpot 3rd world democracy where there's only one candidate to vote for.

[Bondvillain]

Jose was "Brilliant" (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2093-1763778_2,00.html)

("He’s been brilliant with the lads going away for international matches")

Mick was "Brilliant (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2093-1763778_3,00.html)"

("I had a great time under Mick and he did brilliant for Ireland.")

Keegan is "Brilliant (http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=568311)"

("The gaffer has been brilliant, even though we haven’t won a game")

Newcastle is "Brilliant (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=2513494)"

("Everyone here has been brilliant while I was injured. Absolutely everyone. Brilliant." )

My fitness is "Brilliant (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/01/04/duff-we-are-good-enough-to-go-all-the-way-72703-20312960/)"

("I feel brilliant at the moment and I could run all day for the team.")



I think some people may be giving a little bit too much credit to what is one of Duffer's favourite all-purpose throwaway words.

He's not going to pronounce Venables as King of the gimps. He could be his boss next week.

[cheifo]

:D Makes Duffer sound like that bloke from the fast show who thought everything was brillant.