Terry Venables

[Schumi]

Fowler couldn't even get a sniffThat'd be a first. :D

[Stuttgart88]

Spain had a stonewall penalty declined late on.

I think England had a decent tournament but rode their luck at times and I honestly think it's hard to give Venables great credit for having good players and home advantage.

I'd like a manager with experience of going to difficult places and getting results. Someone who has successfully navigated qualification.

In my opinion, qualifying for a tournament is actually harder than making phase 2 of a finals.

[youngirish]

Spain had a stonewall penalty declined late on.


Didn't Salinas score a perfectly good goal for Spain in the golden goal extra time period that was ruled out for offside even though it was about a yard onside?

How the English forget that when they mention how unlucky they were to not win the tournament.

[Drumcondra 69er]

You said Englands euor 96 team "wasn't a good one". It was an excellent team with the likes of Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Ince, Shearer, Sherringham all in great form. Fowler couldn't even get a sniff and he was banging in 30 goals a season at the time. I know this doesn't exactly show Venables is a good manager but you said they were a bad team - implying it was his fault.

You also said Scotland were unlucky - besides the penalty miss they were totally outplayed. Go back and watch it again. You said the Swiss and spanish should also have beaten them - again, the Swiss was match just a poor game overall with neither side playing great and although the Spanish kept possession well, they didn't create anything of note.

After that you said England performed above themselves against Germany - which you gave no credit to Venables because "every recent England team goes out on a high besides Eriksson's". Not true - Keegans team in 2000 went out without a whimper and Taylor didn't even qualify in '94.

I'm just citing his England team as an example, as it would be most relevant as it's an international team

Can't agree with any of that, Scotland were well in that game and would've got a draw had McAllister scored that penalty imo. The swiss were defitely the better team on the day (and they were a poor side, only there due to their manager at the time who we should be after), England were very poor that game. As for Spain, they had 2 perfectly good goals disallowed for offside when neither were even close and a stonewall penalty not given, how you can say they created nothing of note is beyond me. Seaman also pulled off some great saves and was by far the busier keeper

Fair enough on Euro 2000, as for 94 I'd say it was obvious that we're talking about major finals here. As I said, it's a tongue in cheek article from a few years back and what they're referencing there is the likes of WC 86 & 90. You could also apply it to WC 2006 against Portugal. Euro 96 has been totally rewritten, England were very poor and looked a bad team for 3 of the 5 games.

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't Salinas score a perfectly good goal for Spain in the golden goal extra time period that was ruled out for offside even though it was about a yard onside?

That was mentioned on here but I don't remember it so I didn't post it. Gazza tripped a guy as he went past him in the box and no penalty, a real home team decision.

If they were league games England played 5, won 2, drew 3 (and could have been a draw with Scotland). All with home advantage. If we had similar form in qualifying that'd be nowhere near good enough. Not exactly like with like, but I'd guess that that's one of the poorest England home records of any recent manager.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Didn't Salinas score a perfectly good goal for Spain in the golden goal extra time period that was ruled out for offside even though it was about a yard onside?

How the English forget that when they mention how unlucky they were to not win the tournament.

Yep, that was at least a yard onside and there was another more marginal one in normal time that the officials also got wrong.

[Stuttgart88]

4 men arrested in London relating to football corruption.

[cavan_fan]

4 men arrested in London relating to football corruption.

He's 64, none of the guys arrested were.

[youngirish]

That was mentioned on here but I don't remember it so I didn't post it. Gazza tripped a guy as he went past him in the box and no penalty, a real home team decision.


I just looked it up. Apparently it didn't happen at the end of the game but near the end of the first half. Strange. I thought it was later.

[Bondvillain]

He actually opened a nightclub in London where all teh journalists over there used to hang out and went so far as to call it 'Scribes'..


The name was more to do with his 'career' as a writer than his (undeniable) mateyness with journos, using it as he did as a launchpad for both his autobiography, and the re-issue of "Hazell" (T. Venables - Co-creater & Co-Writer) on video & in print in the 90's.

[amaccann]

He was brilliant! Pure passion and he had done some serious amount of homework on El Tel too. Gift Grubs sketch a la Only Fools and Horses is fecking hilarious too!
yeah, but - i wanna see it damn it! :p

[ainsie]

You said Englands euor 96 team "wasn't a good one". It was an excellent team with the likes of Seaman, Neville, Adams, Southgate, Ince, Shearer, Sherringham all in great form. Fowler couldn't even get a sniff and he was banging in 30 goals a season at the time. I know this doesn't exactly show Venables is a good manager but you said they were a bad team - implying it was his fault.

You also said Scotland were unlucky - besides the penalty miss they were totally outplayed. Go back and watch it again. You said the Swiss and spanish should also have beaten them - again, the Swiss was match just a poor game overall with neither side playing great and although the Spanish kept possession well, they didn't create anything of note.

After that you said England performed above themselves against Germany - which you gave no credit to Venables because "every recent England team goes out on a high besides Eriksson's". Not true - Keegans team in 2000 went out without a whimper and Taylor didn't even qualify in '94.

I'm just citing his England team as an example, as it would be most relevant as it's an international team

Hope you meant the pun underlined above. :)

[Stuttgart88]

He's 64, none of the guys arrested were.Sorry, don't know what made me post football / corruption / London in a Venables thread :)

[geysir]

The headline should be more like,
Shocker, teflon Venables not amongst 4 arrested for football corruption

[NeilMcD]

The RTE panels discussion is up on the RTE website at the moment. Dunphy is spot on about Venables.

[Scram]

Seemingly Giles gave El Tel a qualified endorsement on Newstalk. :eek:

As did Paul McGrath (unqualified). Reckons he's the man.

[Stuttgart88]

The RTE panels discussion is up on the RTE website at the moment. Dunphy is spot on about Venables.

I can see the photo but there's no arrow to click to get it to play. Am I missing something?

[ifk101]

I can see the photo but there's no arrow to click to get it to play. Am I missing something?

Click on the photo ;)

[Stuttgart88]

I clicked on the photo & the text underneath, nothing happens on my PC.

[ifk101]

I clicked on the photo & the text underneath, nothing happens on my PC.

A new window should open. See if you are blocking pop-ups from rte.ie.

[NeilMcD]

I think its Dunphy's best performance on the RTE panel and he is spot on. Fair play to him on this, and I think he is dead right to try to shoot down the kite that has been flown with the aid of a few guys in the written media.

[Stuttgart88]

A new window should open. See if you are blocking pop-ups from rte.ie.
Yep, i get an Information bar saying pop ups are blocked. I'll wait until I get home. Thanks.

[ifk101]

Yep, i get an Information bar saying pop ups are blocked. I'll wait until I get home. Thanks.

No worries. This is the link for the pop-up.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2007/1127/soccer_av.html

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks

[geysir]

It's not that Dunphy does not make good points, it's that he is as usual irrational and biased in his argument. He reduces the argument against Venables to populist tabloid screamers in the guise of I care
Giles and Souness are more rational and if I did not have any information beforehand I would dismiss about 3/4 of Dunphy's rant and take what the other 2 as having more cred.
The main argument for Venables is that if he is focussed on the job he can do it well.
That if is too big imo, the nature of International football is such that Venables can easily get unfocussed.

[shakermaker1982]

I love RTE's analysis (just watching it now for first time). Brilliant!!!

[onephillyhughes]

I've never agreed with Dunphy about pretty much anything up until his article in The Star on Monday last. He's spot on about Venables, and fair play to him, he's speaking up against just about every media hack in the country. Plus he had a little pop at Roy Keane too :D

[hamburg paul]

have just seen lads in action on rte for the first time and although scrumpy can be a bit of a pain ,he is fighting supporters corner !afterall nobody else listens to us !This venereal!eh sorry Venables thing is getting up steam ,please let there be some justice and this ******* does not get the job !:mad:

[Noelys Guitar]

The FAI (Delaney?) called Venables on Saturday. A journalist who has just been on newstalk106 said he was sitting down in a restaurant with TV on Saturday when TV got a call from the "FAI".

[eekers]

The FAI (Delaney?) called Venables on Saturday. A journalist who has just been on newstalk106 said he was sitting down in a restaurant with TV on Saturday when TV got a call from the "FAI".

do you think there's the possiblity that delaney's gonna end up being deposed from within the fai because of his behaviour?
we all know delaney wants venables.
even thought delaney was supposed to stay out of the process.
he now seems to be selecting selectors on the basis that they're in the venables camp.

[Bondvillain]

Well, with Townsend seemingly ruling himself out of being on the selection Commit-tee, it remains to be seen (if what has been widely reported about Givens & Howe being two of the 3 man team are correct) whether Delaney has the gumption to place another percieved Venables man on the board of selectors.

Although, in fairness, he's on to a loser either way - If he does appoint a member of the Frank Butcher fan club (Hello, Mr Gascoigne? It's John Delaney. Are you free for a week to come to Dublin and sign a piece of paper?... No there's no reading required.... Yes, an 'x' will suffice... Temple Bar... £30,000 ok?) everyone will say it's a big sham if Venables is hired, as it was always on the cards, JD's alleged "non involvement" in the process was a load of borlicks , and the "Delaney out" campaign will continue more venomously than ever before.

Even if he doesn't and he appoints a true independent who's awareness of "air - uh "extends beyond leprecahuns and Guinness, everyone will still say its a big sham if Venables is hired, that Delaney obviously was always going to accept a manipulated 66% reccomendation from the selection committee, JD's alleged "non involvement" in the process was a load of borlicks , and the "Delaney out" campaign will continue more venomously than ever before.


So, as I am deeply concerned for the mental welfare of our beloved John, I think the safest thing for John Delaney to do, in his own best interest, is make sure Venables isn't on the list of options, or even better, resign before the selection and offer his services to somewhere peaceful and serene like Montenegro.

Voila! :D

[Deckydee]

Wake up people!!!!

If not Venables, then who??

Are they lining up ouside the FAI building? NO!!

[Dr. Ogba]

Wake up people!!!!

If not Venables, then who??

Are they lining up ouside the FAI building? NO!!

anyone....

i'd sooner have John Aldridge than Venebles...

[Rebel11]

i'd sooner have Roddy Collins than Venebles.

[Ireland4ever]

i'd sooner have Roddy Collins than Venebles.

Id sooner have Steve Collins than El Tel!!:D:D

[Stuttgart88]

i'd sooner have Roddy Collins than Venebles.
I hear Roddy's old boss, John Courtenay, MD of the FAI's sponsor unrtil 2015, is pushing hard for Venables.

[Stuttgart88]

Wake up people!!!!

If not Venables, then who??



If TV is all we can get having gone through a thorough recruitment process then so be it, but we should aim higher than that and Hodgson should be one obvious target.

[amaccann]

Wake up people!!!!

If not Venables, then who??

Are they lining up ouside the FAI building? NO!!
Picking some of the names batted around here:
Roy Hodgson
Martin Jol
Arie Haan
Houllier
Troussier

The choices are not unlimited, none are inferior to that cockney crook.

[Ash]

They say that when Venables went to Leeds he tried 4-4-2,
4-3-3 and 5-4-1 ... but he still couldn't open the office safe!

:D

(Apologies if that was posted somewhere else in the previous 5 pages)

[dublinred]

Picking some of the names batted around here:
Roy Hodgson
Martin Jol
Arie Haan
Houllier
Troussier

The choices are not unlimited, none are inferior to that cockney crook.

I would go for the Cyprus manager he has transformed them and is on circa 200k a year , it would also guarantee us 6 points against them.

[tetsujin1979]

If anyone wants to see what a team under Venables plays like, head to Manchester this weekend: http://www.mcfc.co.uk/default.sps?pagegid={DBD12D53-8346-431D-A04F-5D0F8664DE80}&newsid=511339

[Jerry The Saint]

Wake up people!!!!


I can't decide whether Deckydee is someone from the FAI or Frank Vincent from The Sopranos/Goodfellas/those dodgy Permanent TSB ads. ;)

[lionelhutz]

anyone....

i'd sooner have John Aldridge than Venebles...

Ah come off it, you're really exaggerating there

[Dr. Ogba]

Ah come off it, you're really exaggerating there

nope! genuinely would prefer Aldo to Venebles...at least he'd have a bit of passion for the job...

Obviously would prefer Hodgson to either of these 2 though...

[blobbyblob]

Roy Hodgson is the man with the plan. Has he made any comment yet?

[eekers]

Roy Hodgson is the man with the plan. Has he made any comment yet?

he said

"But I'm proud of what I've done. I've had 32 qualifying games with Switzerland and Finland and lost four of them."

[Stuttgart88]

Given that people here have commented positively on Hodgson's Wikipedia entry, I was wondering how Venables' stacks up.

Here it is:

Managerial career

Early management
He took over as manager of Crystal Palace when they were in the Third Division, he coached them to the Second Division in 1977 and the First Division in 1979. After a mid-table finish in 1980 he left that October for Queens Park Rangers, whom he led to promotion as Champions in 1983 and a very respectable 5th place in the First Division the following season. He also guided Rangers to the FA Cup final in 1982 whilst still a Second Division side, but lost in a replay against his former club Tottenham.


Barcelona
His growing reputation bought him offers from some of Europe's most prestigious clubs and in 1984 he took the role of manager at Barcelona, earning the sobriquet "El Tel". Venables was recommended by Bobby Robson, a good friend of the Barcelona President and who himself, years later, would take over the team. Terry used a very English system, a classic 4-4-2, which took advantage of outstanding defenders like Gerado, Migueli and Julio Alberto and a hard-working midfield led by German Bernd Schuster. During his three seasons in Catalonia, Venables led the club to the Spanish title and League Cup but lost in the final of the first post-Heysel European Cup to Steaua Bucharest on penalties. He was sacked in September 1987, after failing to repeat his title success at the Camp Nou.


Tottenham Hotspur
On 23 November 1987, he returned to England to manage Tottenham Hotspur. His success with the north London team was varied, with the side finishing in mid-table for most of his tenure, though they did win the FA Cup in 1991 and finished 3rd in 1990. Venables had brought both Gary Lineker and Paul Gascoigne to Spurs and was a favourite to replace Bobby Robson as England national football team manager when the job became vacant in 1990, but doubts about his probity led him to be passed over in favour of Graham Taylor. After a failed £20m bid to take over Spurs with Larry Gillick, Venables was appointed chief executive by Alan Sugar who had won the takeover battle against Robert Maxwell in June 1991.[1] Over the next two seasons, the Spurs team was managed by Peter Shreeves and then the joint management team of Ray Clemence and Doug Livermore. A clash of personalities developed and Sugar dismissed Venables on 14 May 1993, over his business dealings. After gaining a temporary injunction he was reinstated, but lost a 3-day high court hearing and ordered to pay costs.[1]


England
By November 1993, the England national football team had reached its lowest depths in 15 years under Graham Taylor, who resigned after being unable to take England to the World Cup finals. Venables, though not active in the game, seemed to have the presence and charisma that could re-ignite some patriotic pride and achievement. He was appointed manager on 28 January 1994.

However, the speculation coincided with Venables coming under scrutiny and censure in connection with several of his business dealings. The Football Association struggled to identify an alternative candidate but their discomfort with his soiled reputation for probity was articulated in their appointment of him as England 'coach' rather than under the traditional title of 'manager'. However, Venables agreed to leave the England job after the 1996 Championship in January 1996.

As hosts, England did not need to qualify for the 1996 European Football Championship. His skill in analysis, coaching and motivation resulted in some of England's best ever footballing performances [ you're ****ing jokuing? S88], including a famous 4–1 demolition of the Netherlands, and only ended in the losing to Germany on penalties in the semi-final.


Australia
Venables' next managerial role was with Australia. His side swept through the Oceania World Cup qualifiers but were beaten in a play-off by Iran on away goals, a match often referred to as the most tragic moment in Australian football history.


Portsmouth (chairman)
At the same time, Venables acted as consultant and then chairman at Portsmouth. He purchased a 51% controlling interest in the club for £1 in February 1997 but left in controversial circumstances in 11 months later. His company Vencorp received a £300,000 bonus in the summer of 1997 and he is thought to have been paid around £250,000 upon leaving the club, but he left them bottom of Division One.[3]


Crystal Palace
In March 1998, he returned to Crystal Palace who had just been taken over by Mark Goldberg, and then relegated from the Premier League, for a brief period, before leaving acrimoniously in January 1999, as the south-London club went into administration. His appointment had created a media frenzy, with Goldberg boasting that he was going to turn Palace into a European force within the next five years. But the dream was over within a year, and Palace narrowly avoided going out of business.


Middlesbrough (head coach)
Despite being linked with vacant managerial positions with Wales and Chelsea, Venables remained out of football for nearly two years until December 2000, when he was appointed head coach to assist Middlesbrough manager Bryan Robson in a bid to help the club avoid relegation. The club eventually finished 14th and survived. However, Venables felt Teesside was too remote a base for his media and business interests and he left at the same time as Robson in June 2001.


Leeds United
In July 2002, Venables joined Leeds United as manager. Despite Venables inheriting a stronger squad than the one that had qualified for the UEFA Champion's League two years earlier, by December of that year the side had crashed out of both the League Cup and the UEFA Cup and were languishing in the bottom half of the table. Venables had fallen out with the vital midfield pairing of Olivier Dacourt and David Batty, and this was widely blamed for this decline.[4][5] Further trauma was to follow in January 2003, when Jonathan Woodgate was sold to Newcastle United without Venables being informed, in an attempt to pay off mounting debts. With the club spiralling towards relegation, Venables was sacked in March 2003.[6]


England (assistant)
Venables was linked with Australian club Newcastle United Jets in 2005, but his commitments in the UK prevented him from taking up a role within the club, and his agent announced that he did not sign any deal with the club. At the end of the 2005–06 season, he was linked with a return to Middlesbrough,[7] but decided that at his age he would be unable to manage a Premier League club full time. Later in the year, Venables returned to the England set-up as assistant to new manager Steve McClaren. He was later sacked from this role in November 2007, along with McClaren, after England failed to qualify for the 2008 European Football Championship, although largely escaping blame for the failure to qualify[8] At the same time, Venables was linked with the Republic of Ireland manager job.[9]


Other interests
Venables is also well known for his business interests, most notably with English clubs Tottenham Hotspur and Portsmouth. However, on 14 January 1998 he was disqualified by the high court from acting as a company director for seven years under section 8 of the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 for mismanagement of four companies - the London drinking club Scribes West Ltd, Edenote plc, Tottenham Hotspur plc and Tottenham Hotspur Football and Athletic Company Ltd.[10] The case was brought by the Department of Trade and Industry who cited instances of bribery, lying, deception, manipulation of accounts and taking money that should have been given to creditors.[11]

[gspain]

Roy Hodgson is the man with the plan. Has he made any comment yet?

just that we and the English FA haven't been in touch.

[Deckydee]

No, Im not a supporter of Venables (certainly not after wathing Dunphy anyway!) but we are a small country and we have to remember that 'Beggars cant be choosy'

:o

[amaccann]

No, Im not a supporter of Venables (certainly not after wathing Dunphy anyway!) but we are a small country and we have to remember that 'Beggars cant be choosy'

:o
Ah the old "sure we're only de' Oirish, too wee to have big oideas" mentality.