Terry Venables

[eekers]

i'd rather venables than aldridge but its a non argument because alridge is not being considered

[backstothewall]

I wouldn't prefer to see John Aldridge get the job. I would prefer to see John Sheridan get it though

[EalingGreen]

Those yes votes are from Ealing Green and Not Brazil. Ignore at least two of them!

It's not my team, so it's not for me to cast a vote (either way). Which you'd have seen if you'd bothered to View the Results. T wat. :rolleyes:

[geysir]

Hopefully they are going to interview every worthwhile candidate and then decide. on somebody else

[Noelys Guitar]

Venners is out to 21/20 on Betfair on the day he met the FAI! The big mover is Haan into 17/2 2nd favourite.

[soccerc]

Venners is out to 21/20 on Betfair on the day he met the FAI! The big mover is Haan into 17/2 2nd favourite.


It gets better, just got this in an email from Arie Haan's agent/pr company. It was in the junk folder and was sent late on Wednesday night


Arie Haan's agent today urged Irish football fans to unite behind his candidate for the Irish manager's job.

"It's time to break with the past and move on from the age of the gaffer to the 'Haan Dynasty'," said the Hong Kong based sports agent, Mark It gets better, just got this in an email from Arie Haan's agent/pr company. It was in the junk folder.


Arie Haan's agent today urged Irish football fans to unite behind his candidate for the Irish manager's job.

"It's time to break with the past and move on from the age of the gaffer to the 'Haan Dynasty'," said the Hong Kong based sports agent, Mark Mullan.

Mr Mullan, who submitted the Holland legend's application to the FAI on Wednesday, is urging fans to unite behind the Dutchman in order to avoid 'another managerial fiasco:

"It's not too late if we act now. Terry Venables may be popular with some people, but there is also a lot of discontent out there. A lot of people want a clean break with the style of the past. And Arie Haan is the perfect man for the job -- a combination of experience, success and tactical mastery."

Haan, who was in Beijing Wednesday to offer advice to the Chinese Football Association, said the Irish job would be perfect for him.

"I have always admired the fighting spirit of the Irish, but the current squad also has some gifted technical players. I think I could really turn things around," said Haan in a statement issued via his media representative.

"Ireland has its own particular style. But I am from Holland, where we have different ideas on how to play. If we can match the two styles, I think it would be perfect.

"As a player, I played against Liam Brady and George Best and had the highest respect for them. I know that Best played for Northern Ireland, but the attitude was the same. Both were gentlemen. My agent and spokesperson are Irish, so I know I can definitely work with the Irish. And I love the fans."

In a number of interviews on Wednesday, Haan reiterated his interest in a new challenge, after quitting as Cameroon boss in February:

"I am itching to get involved in management again and work in Europe," said the Stuttgart-based Dutchman, who speaks fluent English.

"There are a lot of top candidates for this job. But all I can say is that I bring a lot of experience and success, and maybe it's also time for Ireland to have a continental coach.

"If you keep the same mentality not much will change. Also, to win, the players need a coach and staff around them who know what it is to win. And all my life I have won a lot more than I lost," said the five-time European Cup winner and veteran of two World Cup finals.

[Bondvillain]

i'd rather venables than aldridge but its a non argument because alridge is not being considered

I agree, it IS a non argument, and that was my point about the Poll. People are saying yes to Venables despite them thinking that someone else would be the correct man for the job simply because it's a yes or no choice..

The major fear we seem to have is that NO-ONE is being considered by the FAI except Venables. While that would no doubt have Dion Fanning and Paul Hyland (and maybe even some journalists too) wahnking into their chardonnay at El Tel's unveiling as the new "Air-Uh" manager down in Break for the Border, it frankly leaves me cold.

Some hint from a non-mutant in the FAI's employ, suggesting that ALL avenues regarding hiring a truly competent manager are being explored would be welcome.

[Noelys Guitar]

soccerc have you any inside info on what is going on? Are Howe and Givens definetely 2 of the 3?

[eekers]

It gets better, just got this in an email from Arie Haan's agent/pr company. It was in the junk folder and was sent late on Wednesday night


Arie Haan's agent today urged Irish football fans to unite behind his candidate for the Irish manager's job.



i posted that up on the haan thread - pretty laughable stuff i thought

[soccerc]

soccerc have you any inside info on what is going on? Are Howe and Givens definetely 2 of the 3?

Me? I know nothing :)

As for what's going on, no, but then again I don't think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing either.

All I can say is that I believe outside forces are manipulating this whole process for whatever reasons and that the dynamic changes daily if not hourly.

It'll all end in tears regardless whether that's next week or next year.

Hopefully someone will expose the whole charade

[Noelys Guitar]

Me? I know nothing :)

As for what's going on, no, but then again I don't think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing either.

All I can say is that I believe outside forces are manipulating this whole process for whatever reasons and that the dynamic changes daily if not hourly.

It'll all end in tears regardless whether that's next week or next year.

Hopefully someone will expose the whole charade

It all sounds like a Monty Phython sketch.

[cavan_fan]

I agree, it IS a non argument, and that was my point about the Poll. People are saying yes to Venables despite them thinking that someone else would be the correct man for the job simply because it's a yes or no choice..


I think we need a better poll, containing the real candidates. Any chance of having a first, second, third choice???

[NeilMcD]

Thats it Bosnich has given his seal of approval.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/smalltalk/story/0,,2219477,00.html

[geysir]

I really did not see anything special with Dunphy's tirade against Venables.
A balanced presentation of a coach's credentials has much more real credibility. A total fanatic biased argument for or against a candidate looks weak.
And screaming his Rod Liddle moralising lines was Dunphy at his pathetic worst.
It's not a court battle.
There was nobody on that program presenting Venables as the next messiah.

It was okay with most people because they happen to agree with Dunphy, then the flip side is when its vindictive and poisonous personal tirades against the team, the managment, as we have seen over 20 years.

[Sligo Hornet]

Thats it Bosnich has given his seal of approval.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/smalltalk/story/0,,2219477,00.html

He says:

"I wanted to tell you that if there's a chance of getting him, Ireland should seize it with both hands. He's a great manager - in fact, he's a great man.":eek:

And there's me thinking that Bosnich had quit using the halluciagenic powder!;)

[OwlsFan]

I really did not see anything special with Dunphy's tirade against Venables. A balanced presentation of a coach's credentials has much more real credibility. A total fanatic biased argument for or against a candidate looks weak.

And screaming his Rod Liddle moralising lines was Dunphy at his pathetic worst. It's not a court battle. There was nobody on that program presenting Venables as the next messiah.

It was okay with most people because they happen to agree with Dunphy, then the flip side is when its vindictive and poisonous personal tirades against the team, the managment, as we have seen over 20 years.

Are you me in disguise ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Drug using, (alleged) girfriend beating failed soccer star recommends Venables.

[citizenerased]

joke......someone start a petition!

[geysir]

How about
We need meat not vegtables.

[Stuttgart88]

IThere was nobody on that program presenting Venables as the next messiah.No, but there has been an overwhelming media campaign advocating Venables based on very flimsy evidence. This media campaign has also sought to undermine the opinions of those who don't agree.

Dunphy put the case against Venables based on reasonable evidence. Most of what he said was said here by me, D69er and many others.

Attack the argument, not the man presenting it.

Funny thing is, if TV did get the job he'd probably be the most experienced manager ever to have the job. I just think we can do better and should aim for better.

[geysir]

No, but there has been an overwhelming media campaign advocating Venables based on very flimsy evidence. This media campaign has also sought to undermine the opinions of those who don't agree.

Dunphy put the case against Venables based on reasonable evidence. Most of what he said was said here by me, D69er and many others.

Attack the argument, not the man presenting it.

Funny thing is, if TV did get the job he'd probably be the most experienced manager ever to have the job. I just think we can do better and should aim for better.
I'm attacking Dunphy´s tabloid style of argument not Dunphy.
Can´t you see the difference.
His personalised attacks on Venables, a la Rod Little.
His fanatic one sided arguments.
Objectivly looking at that program, I would value, as having a ton more weight, Giles's reservations about Venables.
He won't be able to focus on the job.

[Stuttgart88]

Either way the substance of his argument (whether you were attacking him or his presentational style - personally I thought it wasn't clear) holds water. Giles's concern is valid but on the positive side Giles was acting more on a hunch based on what "people" had told him. I just hope any appointment is based on a rigourous and thought out assessment of candidates' merits and demerits.

Separately, what's this supposed to mean (Emmet Malone in Irish Times today):

Although Delaney has repeatedly stressed that the association's aim is to have the new man in place in time for the friendly against Brazil in early February, it is anticipated that after this afternoon's meeting [with the selection panel] is out of the way, the panel members could meet with the Londoner within a matter of days and, theoretically at least, an appointment could quite easily be made before Christmas.

Is this trying to imply that the panel is almost certain to recommend Venables, or is part in emboldened print just mischief making?

[NeilMcD]

[quote=cavan_fan;829099]
I'm not saying Venables is the messiah but I think he is one of a number of candidates who passes the basic qualifications. I agree Hodgson does too, but I feel not enough is made of the fact that when given major club jobs he has been unsuccesful. Also his only experience with 'British' style players is not great.

/QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean that is record was not great with British style players. He got Blackburn to the Uefa cup one season and then the next they had a poor start and he was sacked in much the same way that Martin Jol was sacked this year, Brian Kidd took over and they got relegated. It would be like sacking Mark Hughes next season if they have a poor start. Does that make Mark Hughes a bad manager.

In addition I would argue that many of our midfielders are not the typical British style player in that Ireland, Reid, Miller Duff McGeady do not fall into this category. I dont think your points stand up to be honest.

The other major club he managed and he got Inter to a Uefa Cup Final and respective finishes in the league.

Finally we are not a major club, we are a mid ranking European International team and his record with such teams, is

2 qualifactions and 1 near miss or 32 games played 4 losses. To put that into perspective, Ireland lost 3 games from 12 in the last campaign.
__________________

[NeilMcD]

Either way the substance of his argument (whether you were attacking him or his presentational style - personally I thought it wasn't clear) holds water. Giles's concern is valid but on the positive side Giles was acting more on a hunch based on what "people" had told him. I just hope any appointment is based on a rigourous and thought out assessment of candidates' merits and demerits.

Separately, what's this supposed to mean (Emmet Malone in Irish Times today):

Although Delaney has repeatedly stressed that the association's aim is to have the new man in place in time for the friendly against Brazil in early February, it is anticipated that after this afternoon's meeting [with the selection panel] is out of the way, the panel members could meet with the Londoner within a matter of days and, theoretically at least, an appointment could quite easily be made before Christmas.

Is this trying to imply that the panel is almost certain to recommend Venables, or is part in emboldened print just mischief making?


I think he is saying that they are going to meet Venables this week and if that goes well theoretically they could appoint him before Christmas. I don't think this is going to happen as they are going to have to chat or interview other people than Terry Venables in my view. I am actually quietly confident that Venables will not get the job.

[geysir]

Either way the substance of his argument (whether you were attacking him or his presentational style - personally I thought it wasn't clear) holds water. Giles's concern is valid but on the positive side Giles was acting more on a hunch based on what "people" had told him. I just hope any appointment is based on a rigourous and thought out assessment of candidates' merits and demerits.

If a microphone is stuck under a players nose and asked what do you think of Terry Venables then I'd regard that as having no value.
With Giles, he talks football with a lot of people, he has his hunches and his instincts but they are coming out of a place with decades of experience with playing and coaching at high enough levels.
It has value when he has discussed Venables's coaching credibility with players and other coaches and got their unsolicited opinions. Giles can discriminate the merits of those opinions.
That Venables can coach is supported by many in the game.
That too many self interests get in the way of him doing the job with the dedication it deserves is imo the biggest evident negative on EL Tels cv.
The nature of the Irish job allows him free range to continue with his outside interests.
He should stick with the business interests imo.

[Stuttgart88]

It has value when he has discussed Venables's coaching credibility with players and other coaches and got their unsolicited opinions. Giles can discriminate the merits of those opinions.
Do we know if he's done that?

You see what I'm getting at here? I'm in no way convinced that those advocating, or even cautiously positive on, Venables have done any degree of due diligence.

[cheifo]

Players seem to respect Venables and I dont think we would have a problem with players not wanting to play a la S. Ireland.On the other hand he seems to have the attn span of a flea and never sees projects through to the end.

[geysir]

Its easy to tell when Giles hasn´t a clue what he is talking about.
He´ll resort to a stock phrase after a few ehhs.

[backstothewall]

if he gets the job i'll be known as "backtothechaironitvbetweenjimrozenthalandandytowns end"

[Stuttgart88]

Here's Liam Mackey's view on Venables (positive) in today's Examiner. He puts forward a decent case.

Worth putting up here to add to the debate.

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=soccer-qqqa=sport-qqqid=49343-qqqx=1.asp

If Venables gets it so be it, and as Mackey says it's not an exact science, he may well do a good job - he's bound to be an improvement - but the "process" stinks. It's like reading about the elections in some dodgy African backwater.

[NeilMcD]

Good Aricle by Mackey in my view. Balanced in my view I dont agree with his hunch that he will turn out to be good and its not worth the risk when you have other top class candidates who would be interested.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Here's Liam Mackey's view on Venables (positive) in today's Examiner. He puts forward a decent case.

Worth putting up here to add to the debate.

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=soccer-qqqa=sport-qqqid=49343-qqqx=1.asp

If Venables gets it so be it, and as Mackey says it's not an exact science, he may well do a good job - he's bound to be an improvement - but the "process" stinks. It's like reading about the elections in some dodgy African backwater.

I dunno, he seems to be basing his case on the fact that Venables picked Paul McGrath for his team of the tournament in Italia 90 and the myth that England were brilliant in Euro 96 which has been picked apart on this thread big time, one good performance against the Dutch and a plucky defeat to Germany may have been the most exciting football England played at Wembley for decades but that doesn't say much for what else has been on display.

I like Mackey as a writer but he's ignored everything TV has done in the last 11 years bar the England assistant job and that amounts to 3 managerial positions (4 including boro) and a chief executive job where he had an unhealthy influence on first team affairs. We're not judging him on one 3-5-2 debacle away to Croatia.

Howard Wilkinson won the league 15 years ago and got Leeds to a major final the same year that England got to the Euro semis and I wouldn't want him within a asses roar of the Ireland job.

[geysir]

from Makay´s article
"On the fan websites there is also evidence of a groundswell of disapproval for the man, though whether the Dunph’s high profile impact actually reflects or shapes elements of the popular mood is always a moot point."

It is not a moot point here, the storm was in full swing before Dunphy´s RTE rant.
The % of vote hasn´t changed since the RTE outburst.
I have sent an email to Makay correcting him about that.
Influenced by Dunphy is a personal insult.:eek:

(Also the debate last time Venables name was mentioned in late 2005 when Ladbrokes suspended their betting after a few heavy bets on TV)

Other points I made, the jist, are that as fans we are not convinced that the FAI are doing anything other than reining in TV
We want other top candidates to be contacted and interviewed and it is disgraceful that Hodgson has not been contacted. That Jewell´s contact was made by John Giles.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, I noticed that he insinuated the forums may have been swayed by Dunphy. It's more likely to have been the other way around. Every one of Dunphy's points was made here.

I have no recollection of TV's comments on Italia 90 - I was there for 4 weeks! - but have always cringed at his punditry since, always feelong he just turned up and did no research. Calling Rangers' goalkeeper Simonsen instead of Christianson in a CL match, just because he was Danish always grated with me.

I still stand by the arguments put forward against (.g., the Euro 96 performances being a popular myth), but do agree that he may do a decent job. He does have some idea and it can't get any worse. But that's not a recommendation by any means.

I do think thare are far better candidates - Houllier as well as Hodgson, for example - and think it'd be a huge shame to overlook people with more extensive experience of the modern game and also outside England. The process stinks however.

[eekers]

I do think thare are far better candidates - Houllier as well as Hodgson, for example - and think it'd be a huge shame to overlook people with more extensive experience of the modern game and also outside England. The process stinks however.

the process itself isnt a bad idea.
its the manipulation of the media that stinks
the idea that venables has it already.

i cant see the dons recommending him for the job above other candidates

[osarusan]

Yes, I noticed that he insinuated the forums may have been swayed by Dunphy. It's more likely to have been the other way around. Every one of Dunphy's points was made here.


I'd say the most likely answer is that Dunphy and footie posters came to the same conclusions independently because those conclusions are bloody obvious!!

[geysir]

Yes indeed, literate fans are not swayed by Dunphy's rants :)
The argument about TV´s coaching cv is open for a lot of debate and can be complicated imo. We might not be impressed by TV but many are, that´s the reality.
I´d keep much of the debate simple, that the fans want an experienced manager who will focus on the job 100%. That the process of getting that person stinks.

[eekers]

aussies agree with dunphy - from in the sydney morning herald today

http://www.smh.com.au/news/football/kaka-ready-to-play-by-the-good-book-not-the-rule-book/2007/12/01/1196394687446.html?page=2


EAMON Dunphy, a former Millwall legend and respected Irish pundit, on Terry Venables, who is in line to take over the Irish national team: "If you want to know why Ireland should not touch Venables with a barge pole, then you only have to look at the way he spent the first half at Wembley against Croatia in the royal box hobnobbing with Britain's Prince William. Remember, England were 2-0 down at the time. But that sums up Venables. An A-list celebrity with a fondness for singing on chat shows but, these days, he's a Z-List manager." It was 10 years ago last week that Venables stood on Australia's sidelines, overseeing our calamitous - and, frankly, unnecessary - draw with Iran at the MCG that sent them, and not the Socceroos, to France '98.

[geysir]

In the same paper it seems the Aussie FA received an email about Capello

The story goes something like this: when Australia was eliminated from the Asian Cup, an email arrived in my inbox: "Would Australia be interested in Capello?"

It was passed onto the Aussie FA and ignored for months.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/football/ffa-chief-on-hunt-for-socceroos-boss/2007/12/01/1196394687453.html

[Drumcondra 69er]

I'd say the most likely answer is that Dunphy and footie posters came to the same conclusions independently because those conclusions are bloody obvious!!

I'd say that he either looked at this thread or someone e mailed him the Hell Tell article as the start of the thread because he quoted the fact that Dundee United had beaten Barca out of sight home and away and the holiday programme incident for his first Leeds friendly word for word and he was reading from his notes at the time.

For Mackey to suggest that opinion is being dictated by Dunphy is insulting in the extreme.

[eekers]

I'd say that he either looked at this thread or someone e mailed him the Hell Tell article as the start of the thread because he quoted the fact that Dundee United had beaten Barca out of sight home and away and the holiday programme incident for his first Leeds friendly word for word and he was reading from his notes at the time.

For Mackey to suggest that opinion is being dictated by Dunphy is insulting in the extreme.

exactly. especially as dunphy himself mentioned he'd been researching venables for 10 days. ie he googled it

[Stuttgart88]

Venables was at Wigan vs Man City yesterday.

3 Irish were on view.

Not sure there's any relevance!

[Delbertt]

Terry Venables to be ireland manager lol, the media would make you believe el tels a jose morinho

[eekers]

this sneaked into an article on liam george in the sindo today

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/saying-goodbye-to-an-old-life-1234642.html


He leaves you with a question: "Are they seriously considering Terry Venables as Ireland manager?" He shakes his head at the thought of such old-school thinking.

[Noelys Guitar]

Venables says nobody from the FAI has contacted him.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2007/1202/ireland.html

[amaccann]

Venables says nobody from the FAI has contacted
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2007/1202/ireland.html
Doesn't that contradict many of the rumours and reports from this and other threads?

[carloz]

Venables says nobody from the FAI has contacted
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2007/1202/ireland.html


well he would say that wouldnt he. He wants to try to make it appear that the first people to contact him were the kingmakers

[Stuttgart88]

Shows him up to be the liar he is. Unless he's telling the truth of course!

[geysir]

I still think it was the talking clock when he shouted into his phone, Hello John, the Irish Job? money no object? I´ll think about it.

[Bondvillain]

well he would say that wouldnt he. He wants to try to make it appear that the first people to contact him were the kingmakers

Exactly.

"Mr Venables would like it to be known that he didn't know anything about the Air-uh job until his old mates Don and Don,( Jocasta - fix this so it reads in bold "The Official FAI consultancy team: )"The Official FAI consultancy team" (made up of an FAI employee that he played alongside for a considerable period, and his former assistant from the England set up - Jocasta - drop this bit from final proof. Ta. Hugh. ) approached him to tell him that there was a fair and balanced selection process in progress to select the next Ireland manager, and that Mr Venables was going to win. (Prob Overkill, Jocasta - take this bit out - fans wont like it -remember what Mr Delaney said!!!!!)

Mr Venables is delighted to take the reins at Air-uh, and is looking forward to his first competitve fixture sometime later on in the year, as he is unavailable for the Brazil friendly in February, (and most likely the others yet to be announced) due to previous scheduling commitments with the BBC's "Celebrity Holiday in the sun" programme.

We wish him a hearty "Chuckie our boys in green" indeed, and all the very best of British luck in his new hobby!


Wrmst Rgds,


PP Hugh Chancer, (on bhlf T.Venables)
Dirtbird, Fraudster and Chancer, Solicitors. "





Cynical? Moi? :rolleyes: