Champions League thread

[danonion]

Cafu has some serious pace left in his legs, good god! He's 37 years old he must have two hearts.

[NeilMcD]

Milan to win 2-0 and Shakhtar to win 2-1.

Hope you did not put money on that.

[EAFC_rdfl]

hope those who were chatting celtic down yesterday all lost a load of money betting against them

[OwlsFan]

Hope you did not put money on that.

Got one result correct and the correct score in the other - just the wrong way round ;)

Why or why do managers persist with the 5 in midfield when they want a draw? It just gives the opposition the ball and eventually they score due to the amount of possession. I have seen it so often. Strachan is blessed that Shakhtar screwed up against Benfica through some terrible defending.

[gustavo]

hope those who were chatting celtic down yesterday all lost a load of money betting against them

They lost didnt they ?
Just lucky that Shaktar ballsed up

[scottish_bohs]

It was perhaps fitting that we scraped through last night... penalties against Moscow, last gasp winners against Milan & Shaktar at home and a hardly convincing win against Benfica at home.

I thin kwe've probably over-achieved in getting through, but who cares, we're into the draw for the last 16 and that's all that matters. Cracking achievement, especially as we've now done it 2 years running.

I'd love Inter or Real in the next round now!

[superfrank]

Why or why do managers persist with the 5 in midfield when they want a draw? It just gives the opposition the ball and eventually they score due to the amount of possession. I have seen it so often. Strachan is blessed that Shakhtar screwed up against Benfica through some terrible defending.
:confused: Milan also played with a five man midfield.

[EAFC_rdfl]

They lost didnt they ?
Just lucky that Shaktar ballsed up

heres the posts I was replying to earlier today, no mention of match results there, simply playing down celtics chances of going through :rolleyes:


Shakhtar are 5/2 on Betfair to qualify. :eek::eek: Celtic are 4/11. I'd really put Shakhtar favourites and can't believe those odds.


Certainly worth a tenner on Shakhtar.

[eirebhoy]

Why or why do managers persist with the 5 in midfield when they want a draw? It just gives the opposition the ball and eventually they score due to the amount of possession. I have seen it so often. Strachan is blessed that Shakhtar screwed up against Benfica through some terrible defending.
I'm a big fan of 4-5-1 tbh. I don't think playing a 4-4-2 would have changed much last night. The midfielders would still be sitting deep. Pity McDonald had to go off injured because as soon as he did the defenders decided to go long to Vennegoor.

[Dodge]

Systems depend on players. Celtic have plenty of midfielders but not too many strikers.

[shanman2]

I'm a big fan of 4-5-1 tbh. I don't think playing a 4-4-2 would have changed much last night. The midfielders would still be sitting deep. Pity McDonald had to go off injured because as soon as he did the defenders decided to go long to Vennegoor.

Pity Hartley and Jarosik weren't injured. It might have helped the cause if they were. Hartley is brutal and don't get me started on Jarosik.

[scottish_bohs]

Pity Hartley and Jarosik weren't injured. It might have helped the cause if they were. Hartley is brutal and don't get me started on Jarosik.

Those two had decent games last night and have been playing well over the last month or so. Jarosik especially has came on to a much better game of late.

[superfrank]

Dunphy and Giles exposed again. Benoit Cheyrou that plays for Marseille is NOT Bruno Cheyrou that once played for Liverpool, he is in fact a younger brother. He is not a reject as Dunphy so politely put it. He is a rather handy player.

[NeilMcD]

Gerets did not think much of him as he took him off pretty quickly

[gilberto_eire]

stupid marsielle, had them in an accumulator taught the odds at 11/4 were great all things considered!!:mad:

[OwlsFan]

Dunphy and Giles exposed again. Benoit Cheyrou that plays for Marseille is NOT Bruno Cheyrou that once played for Liverpool, he is in fact a younger brother. He is not a reject as Dunphy so politely put it. He is a rather handy player.

It was the same old, same old. Dunphy expected a Marseille win and as usual, when his prediction doesn't come to pass, it's blame the opposition for being poor. Time and time again and the tedious moaning about the rotation system. They slammed Benitez for taking Gerrard off against Reading to rest him. Who came out of the blocks like a shot: Gerrard? Dunphy scoffed (jeered) at Kewell before the game. He had two assists and also defended well.

Liverpool now not only have to win, but they have to win with style :rolleyes: I think they didn't let Marseille play and powered them out of the game in the 1st 20 minutes. No credit for that. Liverpool were much the fresher team. Rotation ??

Anyway, any team that plays in jerseys that colour don't deserve to win ;)

Ray and George (who didn't realise a peno had been given and seemed to miss most of what was going on) were on a high that 6 British teams (if Rangers get through) were in to the knock out stage.

[gustavo]

It was the same old, same old. Dunphy expected a Marseille win and as usual, when his prediction doesn't come to pass, it's blame the opposition for being poor. Time and time again and the tedious moaning about the rotation system. They slammed Benitez for taking Gerrard off against Reading to rest him. Who came out of the blocks like a shot: Gerrard? Dunphy scoffed (jeered) at Kewell before the game. He had two assists and also defended well.

Liverpool now not only have to win, but they have to win with style :rolleyes: I think they didn't let Marseille play and powered them out of the game in the 1st 20 minutes. No credit for that. Liverpool were much the fresher team. Rotation ??

Anyway, any team that plays in jerseys that colour don't deserve to win ;)

Ray and George (who didn't realise a peno had been given and seemed to miss most of what was going on) were on a high that 6 British teams (if Rangers get through) were in to the knock out stage.

Also according to the lads a British team will win it , cos Barca and Real are poor at the back , and there's nothing to fear from Inter and Milan :rolleyes:

[OwlsFan]

Dunphy predicted early on that 3 out of the 4 teams in the semis would be from England. You can guess which team he thought would be missing.

[superfrank]

O-Lim-Pack Lyon.

You gotta love Peter Collins.

[OwlsFan]

At least he can make a decent stab at pronouncing Besiktas unlike laughing Bill.

Enjoyable game last night between Rangers and Lyon. Rangers battled hard but the difference between the teams was Karim Benzema. Looked a class act. I expect to see him playing in the Premiership soon.

The Man U (violence apart) and Arsenal games were non-events as predicted elsewhere.

[Dodge]

Looked a class act. I expect to see him playing in the Premiership soon.

"or Spain or Italy" as Brady added. Dunphy said 2 years ago Barcelona wouldn't win it as their defence was terrible and they've bolstered it considerably since then. He, and many pundits, simply don't understand that a team would rather win 2-1 than 1-0. Its beyond comprehension that Ronaldinho and Messi are instructed NOT to track back and that Iniesta, Deco and xavi are given free reign to move about midfield.

Laughable they spend hour deriding the premiership and then predict the winner will be either Chelsea/Man U

[OwlsFan]

Laughable they spend hour deriding the premiership and then predict the winner will be either Chelsea/Man U

I think they slag off the quality of the Premiership outside of the Top 4. But then I wonder what the strength of the teams outside the Top 4 in Italy, Spain and France is like? I don't know and I suspect Messrs Dunphy, Giles and Brady know even less.

[tetsujin1979]

This was posted on a Celtic mailing list. I think it's brilliant, not sure if it should be here or in the SPL discussion thread though.

On the way to the match last Saturday I heard Strachan on radio again state when questioned on poor CL Away form - "We'll have to have a look at that" in what seemed to me to be a somewhat nonchalant manner.

I ask you. After 8 seasons of this Away debacle & 2 wins in 29 attempts against serious opposition on Continental soil & a "look" is on the agenda?

Well, when Strachan & his minions have their "look", here are some facts & home truths which might assist them in the task & help to concentrate their minds.

I don't think any of them have an understanding of how close we walk to the edge of the edge. All it will take is for 1 Group stage team to fluke a draw at Parkhead (it will happen as surely as the Sun rises in the East - St Mirren last Saturday) & then we will be truly rooted if we continue Away as we have done.

This seasons Group stage was completed last night. Every one of us is delighted to be in the last 16 with all the attendant press cheers but beneath all that lurks the real story.

In the 8 seasons of this century 77 teams have participated in the 1st CL Group stage.

A league table comprising the 77 Teams on Home results alone shows Celtic in 6th position. Many teams have played differing numbers of games - the measure is points won/points possible as a %. An Away League table shows Celtic in 72nd position - down with the no-hopers.

Overall (Home & Away) Celtic rank 33rd.

Because many of the clubs participated in only 1 or 2 campaigns, the tables can be & are skewed by this eg Seville & Sturm Graz are the only 2 teams with 100% Home records but each has only 1 CL campaign.

A more relevant assessment in my view is to include only those teams who have played in at least 50% of the 8 seasons ie the regular participants with a minimum of 24 H/A games each.

32 teams fall into this category.

Because the overall tone of this is negative it is only fair to give great credit for an absolutely outstanding Home performance by Celtic who are a Pot 3 team more often than not. A Home League table shows Celtic in 4th position. Here's the top 10 -


P W D L F A GD Pt % Team
18 16 1 1 41 11 30 49 90.7% Juventus
24 21 2 1 66 16 50 65 90.3% Man Utd
21 18 2 1 56 13 43 56 88.9% Barcelona
15 12 2 1 23 9 14 38 84.4% Celtic
24 18 4 2 52 18 34 58 80.6% Arsenal
24 17 6 1 64 24 40 57 79.2% Real Madrid
18 13 2 3 34 15 19 41 75.9% Inter Milan
12 9 0 3 26 15 11 27 75.0% Bayer Leverkusen
12 8 2 2 27 16 11 26 72.2% Werder Bremen
21 14 3 4 43 22 21 45 71.4% AC Milan

A table calculated as above favours Teams who have played fewer games as it becomes more difficult for top achievers to maintain form over a longer period. Adjusting for this places Celtic in 6th pos. However, let's ignore this & move on as per the original. Either way illustrates the point being made

Some of the big guns who are outwith the Home top 10 - Chelsea, Liverpool, Lyon, Bayern Munich, Valencia & Porto. I'll say again - a marvellous record considering the resources available to Celtic.

I have heard more than a few of the Blues Brothers & others put Celtic's Parkhead CL results mostly down to good fortune. You cannot be consistently visited by such luck over a 5 season, 15 game period.

The other side of the coin (Away results) is too embarrassing to list in detail. We have taken 1 pt from a possible 45. The 32 team Away table shows Celtic at the bottom about 10 places behind Dynamo Kiev in 31st. Chelsea are the top performers in this department followed by Lyon, Barcelona & AC Milan.

That wouldn't be Lyon in 2nd position, would it? :-) They have played in all 8 CL first Group stages in this millennium - 24 Away games as opposed to Chelsea's 15. Facts which had obviously escaped the vast majority of the media prior to the Ibrox humping last night. In the Home League table Rangers sit 26th of 32 having played 12 games at Home - winning 4.

As further evidence of Celtic's prowess at Parkhead we have beaten the 3 we have played from this quartet of Europe's top travellers (Barcelona in the UEFA Cup). In the CL at Parkhead our only defeat has been by Barcelona.

Worst home performers are Anderlecht (31st) & Rosenborg (32nd). It would you make you cry - both managed to beat us.

The difference between Celtic's Home(4) & Away(32) positions is 28. Only 1 other team of the 32 gets into double figures - AS Roma with 14 & they are better Away than at Home!

Overall H/A we sit 19th.

Now nobody would be getting terribly excited about it all if we had consistently fluked our way to the Home performance or our Home results were to win 1, draw 1, lose 1 of ever 3 at Parkhead & the Away results were as above. We would conclude that we are performing 'at our level', have a grumble, move on & hope to do better.

But to perform like we do at Parkhead & then fling the Away form in thousands of fans' faces is a disgrace. It is not all down to Gordie. O'Neill made a bigger contribution to this state of affairs.

For people at Parkhead being paid millions to get it sorted & it still continues season after season is not acceptable. We have not learned or improved 1 iota Away over 5 CL seasons - that is why I find this "We'll have to have a look at that" comment to be mind boggling. Any CEO in big bizzo who had overseen such a similar historic difficulty & made that comment to his Board - they would have the company car keys off him in about 2 seconds as his arse went out the door.

I'm sick to death of apologists banging on about winning domestic honours as a defence of the above, as if that somehow excuses it. GS, & MON before him, DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about how to counter skilful & talented players who attack us on their own patch for most of the game, playing swift, passing football on the ground. The evidence for that view is now too copious for it to be otherwise.

In addition to being bottom of the Away table we are 1 team away from having conceded most goals per game away from home of the 32; Shaktar Donetsk being that team. As it is Panto time (an analogy) in a foreign Court we couldnae defend the beautiful Cinders on a trumped up charge of being one of the Ugly Sisters. M'Lud would have her locked up after about 5 minutes of proceedings.

For anyone interested in Rangers 32 team league performance - 26th at Home, 21st Away, 24th overall. If we had Rangers CL away form we would be 8th overall of 32 H/A - a possible Qtr Final candidate on paper. Never was there a truer indication of why Celtic's CL Away form is totally unacceptable - we have been the dominant Old Firm force in this millennium to date having taken 53 SPL pts to their 29.

Which leads me to the last 16 H/A knockout round...

When we got over the immediate shock of Artmedia Bratislava I think the vast majority of Tims were fair minded enough to conclude, 'Well, these things happen from time to time'. I am not so sure now.

Strachan, in his 10 (Celtic & Southampton) Euro 'H/A rounds', has not 'won' a single one on aggregate scoreline. Bodes well, does it not. The Chairmen of the Big Guns will be biting arms off at the shoulder to get Celtic in the last 16 on account of our Away record - of all possible opponents they'll calculate that there is the greatest likelihood of them winning by more at Home than their opponent (Celtic in this case) would win by on their ground. Of their possible opponents Celtic concede Away goals at a rate miles higher than any other.

Our only continental Away success in 8 seasons against a genuine Big Gun is the 0-0 Draw in Barcelona. Our extremely laudable & merited victories at Parkhead against Big Guns have generally been by 1 goal - Juventus, AC Milan, Barcelona (UEFA), Valencia (UEFA); Lyon (2 goals). Sorry, Gordon, Benfica are not a Big Gun.

My own preference from the 7 possible opponents is definitely NOT a continental team. My view is that Strachan is as wee boy lost in this arena once he disembarks from the Channel Ferry outbound. If he does indeed have any nous on the Euro road then it will be concerning English teams & their style of play. That'll be Chelsea or Man Utd then. The potential severity of a test against either of these 2 shows how much Strachan's continental ventures have inspired me.

In conclusion:

A Gingerista response to this would probably be along the lines of - any 'Away' conclusions drawn are based mainly on historical date & should therefore be suspect as they have little current relevance. I beg to disagree on the evidence of the Group stage. Celtic are the only Club in the last 16 to lose all 3 Away games, making it 7 consecutive CL Away losses for GS over the last 2 seasons. Celtic are the only Club in the last 16 to be scoreless Away. If that is not a telling indication of current Away woefulness then I'm an Orangeman.

I have yet to be convinced that those responsible understand the true scale of the disparity between CL Home & Away performance. I have heard some of them refer to it as a 'Monkey on our back'. A more accurate reference would be to an Orang-Utang with 6 weans hanging on its back. Understanding & acceptance of that will be a challenge equal to getting it sorted for Stracahn as there is a megaton of hubris & stubbornness in his character. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard Strachan's summation of a game just played & thought to myself - "Was I watching the same game?"

Not withstanding all of the above I'll be away wherever at the last 16 venue thinking that Celtic have a chance. Eternal opTIMism, eh?

Yours in a 'Glass Half Empty' zone congratulations if you have stuck to the task & got this far :-)

On a seperate note - A Happy Christmas to all

[OwlsFan]

Celtic's away form is not unlike ours (Ireland's). Could take the rest of the afternoon off to read the rest of the post though ;)

[eirebhoy]

He seems to be mentioning the "We'll have to have a look at that". That's just Gordon Strachan's way of talking to the media. Everyone saw how disappointed he was to lose in Milan a couple of weeks ago.

tbh I think its a huge physchological thing atm. Not only should Celtic have had a peno early on in the San Siro last season but Nakamura was fouled in the box after running the length of the pitch and nothing was given. Italian TV didn't show any replays of it but I'm certain it should have been a peno. That was in the 88th minute. If that decision went for Celtic and they scored the resulting peno I think results on the road would have been better this season.

[GavinZac]

Italian TV didn't show any replays of it but I'm certain it should have been a peno.Faith, eh?

[OwlsFan]

Only conceded 9 at home in 15 games :eek:

[tetsujin1979]

He seems to be mentioning the "We'll have to have a look at that". That's just Gordon Strachan's way of talking to the media. Everyone saw how disappointed he was to lose in Milan a couple of weeks ago.
He did mention it a bit at the start, I think it was what inspired him to do the research and put it all together, it's quite impressive I think

BTW this was on the topica Celtic mailing list, did you used to contribute to that mant moons ago?

[eirebhoy]

Never heard of it. I did see a few of the articles you posted from the mailing list on a website. I can't remember which site it is but it could just have been a copy and paste from the email. Certainly a well researched article.

[Stuttgart88]

He seems to be mentioning the "We'll have to have a look at that". That's just Gordon Strachan's way of talking to the media. Everyone saw how disappointed he was to lose in Milan a couple of weeks ago.

tbh I think its a huge physchological thing atm. Not only should Celtic have had a peno early on in the San Siro last season but Nakamura was fouled in the box after running the length of the pitch and nothing was given. Italian TV didn't show any replays of it but I'm certain it should have been a peno. That was in the 88th minute. If that decision went for Celtic and they scored the resulting peno I think results on the road would have been better this season.The early penno appeal was a marginal handball as far as I can recall. The late foul an Nakamura was a nailed on slam dunk penalty. Even the defender (Colossini?) knew it. Astoundingly bad decision. Only thing that stopped it being given (apart from a home team decision) was that Nakamura had just knocked the ball too far ahead. The run was coming to an end but that should be irrelevant. Certain foul, maybe obstruction in the technical sense but that rule has as good as disappeared from the game.

The Celtic fans can knock Strachan's way record in the CL all they want. The truth is that Celtic aren't a patch on the team that Martin O'Neill had. O'Neill's 2002-2003 team was an English top 6 equivalent in my opinion (as good as, say, Everton, if not a bit better). Strachan's team is top of Championship standard, home advantage at CP notwithstanding. Celtic fans should marvel at the 9 points at home this season, not moan about the zero points away.

[tetsujin1979]

Never heard of it. I did see a few of the articles you posted from the mailing list on a website. I can't remember which site it is but it could just have been a copy and paste from the email. Certainly a well researched article.
Fair enough, I thought I remembered a poster using the handle "eirebhoy" on it from back in the day.


The early penno appeal was a marginal handball as far as I can recall. The late foul an Nakamura was a nailed on slam dunk penalty. Even the defender (Colossini?) knew it. Astoundingly bad decision. Only thing that stopped it being given (apart from a home team decision) was that Nakamura had just knocked the ball too far ahead. The run was coming to an end but that should be irrelevant. Certain foul, maybe obstruction in the technical sense but that rule has as good as disappeared from the game.

The Celtic fans can knock Strachan's way record in the CL all they want. The truth is that Celtic aren't a patch on the team that Martin O'Neill had. O'Neill's 2002-2003 team was an English top 6 equivalent in my opinion (as good as, say, Everton, if not a bit better). Strachan's team is top of Championship standard, home advantage at CP notwithstanding. Celtic fans should marvel at the 9 points at home this season, not moan about the zero points away.

If Juventus's Brazilian striker hadn't been tackled by the force of gravity in Celtic's first away game to win a penalty and deny them a point, I think they would have qualified from that group. Having said that, if my auntie had balls....

[bennocelt]

Good to see my two tips still there...Inter and AC

As for celtic, give me a break. They are a very poor team, and were pish poor under O Neill too.

[eirebhoy]

The early penno appeal was a marginal handball as far as I can recall. The late foul an Nakamura was a nailed on slam dunk penalty. Even the defender (Colossini?) knew it. Astoundingly bad decision. Only thing that stopped it being given (apart from a home team decision) was that Nakamura had just knocked the ball too far ahead. The run was coming to an end but that should be irrelevant. Certain foul, maybe obstruction in the technical sense but that rule has as good as disappeared from the game.

I was looking on youtube for the incident when I was posting about it yesterday and the only thing I can find is a video taken on camcorder which doesn't even show the collision. The first clip in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPELPoBBVFs

Celtic fans talk about unfair decisions against Man Utd, Juve, Lyon, etc. but that one never gets a mention.

As for the quality of the current team. Of the whole squad the only players I'd be happy to have in the first team next season are Boruc, McManus/O'Dea, Brown, Naka, McGeady and McDonald. So only 1 defender is good enough imo. Only 1 striker is good enough. The midfield I'm happy with, just needs the one player. I don't know what happened to Vennegoor. He was excellent at the start of his Celtic career and has just gotten worse. Donati has a lot to do and is finding it hard to adjust to the SPL where you get no time on the ball. Jarosik and Hartley are good squad players. The rest can be sold for all I care. Although Wilson has been unlucky with injury. Classed as the best defender in Scotland by Strachan after his first half season with Celtic.

[Stuttgart88]

If Juventus's Brazilian striker hadn't been tackled by the force of gravity in Celtic's first away game to win a penalty and deny them a point, I think they would have qualified from that group. Having said that, if my auntie had balls....Amoruso or Amoroso, wasn't it? Terrible decision, blatant dive. Joos Valgaeren was the defender. He was astonished. Not unlike the Defoe penalty against Croatia recently,but without the minor tug.

[OwlsFan]

Looking forward to the draw. Man U vs Celtic ??

[eirebhoy]

Apparently there's statistically more chance of Celtic drawing one of the 2 English teams than 1 of the 3 Spanish teams. All to do with the domino effect where you can't play teams from your own country or group. I don't know how it was calculated though.

[RogerMilla]

Celtic fans should marvel at the 9 points at home this season, not moan about the zero points away.

why not do both ?

[Stuttgart88]

Because zero points away as about what you'd expect a team of Celtic's standard, 9 points at home is more!

[eirebhoy]

Celtic's chances of drawing each team worked out to be:

Man Utd 19.7%
Chelsea 18.8%
Inter Milan 13.4%
Porto 12.5%
Sevilla 12.5%
Real Madrid 11.5%
Barcelona 11.5%
AC Milan 0%

So that adds up to: English team: 38.5%, Spanish team: 35.5%, Neither: 26%

Coral odds for the draw for Celtic are;

Man Utd 7/2
Chelsea 4/1
Inter 5/1
Porto 6/1
Sevilla 6/1
Real Madrid 13/2
Barcelona 13/2

So the value bet there is Chelsea. Coral reckon there's a 17.5% chance of Celtic drawing Chelsea when it's actually 18.8%. As small a percentage as it sounds, if you could work out the odds for every bet like that you'd be a rich man. It's impossible to work out the actual odds of a horse or football team winning though.

[Junior]

Because zero points away as about what you'd expect a team of Celtic's standard, 9 points at home is more!

I think you are right in what you say, but that gives us all the more right to have a moan about the consistently poor away form. Celtic supporters are not daft enough to think that this home form can go on for ever and when it does falter we will absolutely need to take something from an away game or two. Hence why we need to overcome this mental barrier starting in the last 16 game!!!

[gustavo]

http://www.skysports.com/football/draw/ucl_stream/#

[reder]

All I want for Christmas is Real Madrid in the next round.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Celtic vs Barcelona
Lyon vs Man Utd
Schalke vs Porto
Liverpool vs Inter Milan
Roma vs Real Madrid
Arsenal vs AC Milan
Olympiakos vs Chelsea
Fenerbache vs Seville

Arsenal vs Milan will be a cracker. Some very interesting ties there too.

[gustavo]

Celtic vs Barcelona
Lyon vs Man Utd
Schalke vs Porto
Liverpool vs Inter Milan
Roma vs Real Madrid
Arsenal vs AC Milan
Olympiakos vs Chelsea
Fenerbache vs Seville

Arsenal vs Milan will be a cracker. Some very interesting ties there too.

I'd predict all group winners to come through , the only doubt being the Milan Arsenal one and the Schalke Porto one

[jebus]

Celtic vs Barcelona (w)
Lyon (w) vs Man Utd
Schalke vs Porto (w)
Liverpool vs Inter Milan (w)
Roma vs Real Madrid (w)
Arsenal (w) vs AC Milan
Olympiakos vs Chelsea (w)
Fenerbache vs Seville (w)

Is the way I see those ties going

[eirebhoy]

I certainly don't fancy Arsenal against Milan.

[jebus]

I certainly don't fancy Arsenal against Milan.

I think Arsenal will hop them personally. I'm gonna even put a cheeky tenner on them scoring 6 goals over the two legs

[eirebhoy]

Really? Milan are the masters of stopping teams play. While it may be hard to stop the likes of Messi, Arsenal are a team of playmakers which can easily be marked. Take the space away from Arsenal and they're screwed because they rely almost completely on a passing game. As would Milan if they didn't have Kaka. You can't pass Milan off the park because usually the only players available to pass to are behind you.

[jebus]

Really? Milan are the masters of stopping teams play. While it may be hard to stop the likes of Messi, Arsenal are a team of playmakers which can easily be marked. Take the space away from Arsenal and they're screwed because they rely almost completely on a passing game. As would Milan if they didn't have Kaka. You can't pass Milan off the park because usually the only players available to pass to are behind you.

Milan haven't been able to stop the likes of mighty Empoli, Catania and Torino from taking points off them at home this year, last time I looked they hadn't even won one game at the San Siro yet this year, haven't checked in a couple of weeks but I don't think thats changed. There defence have finally come of old age and the pace of Arsenal will shatter them. Add to that that Arsenal have progressed from a one man attack system, whilst Milan are stuck in their Kaka dominated world and I think I'm safe in saying Arsenal will beat them

[Cymro]

Celtic vs Barcelona (w)
Lyon (w) vs Man Utd
Schalke vs Porto (w)
Liverpool vs Inter Milan (w)
Roma vs Real Madrid (w)
Arsenal (w) vs AC Milan
Olympiakos vs Chelsea (w)
Fenerbache vs Seville (w)

Is the way I see those ties going

Lyon won't beat Man United in my opinion, other than that I largely agree. Could also see Schalke beating Porto.