Celtic Discussion [Archive] - Page 16

Junior

22/10/2004, 1:47 PM

Be a barstooler and go down to a pub to cheer on a foreign team?! :D

KOH

sorry to ruin your theory - but I happily spend large amounts of my hard earned cash and time supporting Celtic and Ireland. However I tend to refrain from going on ego trips telling the world they are 'thick', 'barstoolers' ' not a REAL fan' etc. look at me I support my local team yadda yadda yadda........

Blue Peter badge for that man - woo hoo

Junior

22/10/2004, 1:49 PM

You're quite right, the commitment shown by people going to the pub to watch English teams never fails to inspire me and I only wish I could manage the same level fandom as them.

So only if you support an EL team would you know this? What about the coach and plane loads of supporters who regularly make the trip to glasgow to support their team - are these REAL fans? I guess not, because they are supporting a foreign club yadda yadda yadda

Gary

22/10/2004, 2:03 PM

What you are basically suggesting is that Irish Celtic fans support them for the sole reason of it being "cool" to do so or because of religion.
A very uneducated generalisation IMO. Just because you're not a Celtic supporter yourself and can't understand it doesn't mean you should pidgeonhole people who are.

Walk into Tom Lynchs on Barracka, and you will see that my 'generalization' uis quite accurate. IRA tattoos with Celtic jersies. Great fashion statement there.

Okay, I do take the point that a guy can be a genuine GCFC fan, while living abroad.

I don't understand how you support Cork City but I don't question it or have a problem with it ;) ;) :D

Wha??? :confused:

NY Hoop

22/10/2004, 2:18 PM

Er,the Shams.are your own team :confused: ....met many Rovers fans' over the years who are happy with this title......I would challenge anyone's ignorance of wider Irish culture,inc.those natives who take on the notion that the EL is worthless*

* Largely in my experience,assuming they are soccer fans,many 'barstoolers' perceive the EL as being dull & skilless.....probably as their senses have been dulled by the extensive diet of TV footy currently available.Would dispute this with them,but is undoubtedly of a lower level than most CL/EPL/SPL games....but happy to see the concept of the domestic game progress.
A little less paranoia about Celtic & foreign clubs from EL fans,though would not go amiss :rolleyes: ! if yer really bothered about the 'enemy within',save yer energy for the G.A.A. ,though they're entitled to'laugh' @ you! :D

Only ignoramus' call us shams. Dont know who these ROVERS' fans are that are happy with that title.

I'm not paranoid. Ultimately people will do what they want. Dont take any notice of barstoolers generally. Their senses cant be dulled. They are already brain dead. Why do you think they all follow manure or liverpool?!!They know about as much about the game as the gum on my shoe. If andy gray said drink paint they would do it :D

Undoubtedly the EL is a lower level than the CL and the EPL but on a par with the SPL, bar the big 2 of course.

And I have absolutely no problem with the GAA.

KOH

Gary

22/10/2004, 2:25 PM

Only ignoramus' call us shams.

I believe the term is Ignoramii!!! :p ;)

drinkfeckarse

22/10/2004, 2:25 PM

I don't understand how you support Cork City but I don't question it or have a problem with it ;) ;) :D

Wha??? :confused:[/QUOTE]

Just joking Gary, should've put "why you support" instead of "how you support" and it would've came across a bit better.

Basically, each to their own I suppose is the moral of the story!!

NY Hoop

22/10/2004, 2:57 PM

I believe the term is Ignoramii!!! :p ;)

LOL.

Now where's my blue peter badge yadda yadda yadda?! :rolleyes: :D

KOH

Slash/ED

22/10/2004, 3:05 PM

So what about the vast majority of Irish people that support e.g. Liverpool or Man Utd? Are they all mad too for supporting a team that they have no affinity with?

If anything it's understandable that so many Irish people support Celtic, the first thing that drew me to them was whenever I saw them on telly when I was young, I always saw loads of Irish flags at the games. That is naturally going to please any young Irish man who loves their country. You don't see too many of them flying about in the Premiership so what draws people to support them?

I personally don't give a sh!te about the argument about whether they are an "Irish" or "Scottish" club, all I know is that any club that celebrates it's links to Ireland is ok in my book.

If that makes people think that I jumped on the proverbial "bandwagon", then look a bit closer to home and ask yourself why you support some Premiership team on the side.

The point is there's no difference between the Celtic fans and the EPL "barstoolers". I've no problem with people supporting foreign clubs, if you want to do that than that's fine, nobody is obliged to support anybody, but don't try and tell me some random foreign club is more "Irish" than another. They're all the same. You can fly all the Irish flags you want at CP and be formed by whoever you want, it doesn't change a thing. Now, I wont be daft enough to say that as a result of this celtic fans aren't "real" fans, all I'm saying is there's no difference between them and the rest of the people who follow foreign clubs.

Someone mentioned how Celtic have connections here due to the fact that so many Irish support Celtic. Well I'd say the most popular club over here is Man U, not Celtic, and at least nobody trys to claim anything about how "Irish" or not they are.

And to the person complaining about RTE showing the celtic game over the other CL games, get yourself Sky :D Watched Milan V Barca myself, absolutley cracking game. Two teams who simply have world class players all over and oddly enough the Italians actually left their own half at times in the match, wouldn't suprise me at all if thsoe two clubs contested the final if that's possible.

drinkfeckarse

22/10/2004, 3:15 PM

The point is there's no difference between the Celtic fans and the EPL "barstoolers". .

I think you'll find there's no difference between the Celtic barstoolers and EPL barstoolers not the Celtic fans Slash. That was my point about every Celtic fan being pidgeonholed with the same stigma.

drinkfeckarse

22/10/2004, 3:22 PM

but don't try and tell me some random foreign club is more "Irish" than another. They're all the same.

I wasn't trying to say that at all. It's quite simple really, I saw a lot of Irish stuff at Celtic games when I was younger and naturally, that would attract any Irishmans interest.

Slash/ED

22/10/2004, 3:23 PM

I think you'll find there's no difference between the Celtic barstoolers and EPL barstoolers not the Celtic fans Slash. That was my point about every Celtic fan being pidgeonholed with the same stigma.

Well yes, that's what I meant. There are genuine Celtic fans over here of course, who spend a lot of their hard earned money traveling to Celtic Park every second week. Now, while personally it's frustrating seing that when the EL is in desperate need of support, that's their choice and they're as "real" as any other fans. It's the bandwagon jumpers and the gobsh*tes who seem to be attracted to supporting celtic that put alot of people off, but obviously that doesn't apply to every Celtic fan and they can't all be tarred with the same brush.

Slash/ED

22/10/2004, 3:24 PM

I wasn't trying to say that at all. It's quite simple really, I saw a lot of Irish stuff at Celtic games when I was younger and naturally, that would attract any Irishmans interest.

I wasn't really directing that at you as just saying it in general, as there are some people who do try to claim that.

drinkfeckarse

22/10/2004, 3:50 PM

Fair enough, point taken too.

Junior

22/10/2004, 4:00 PM

but don't try and tell me some random foreign club is more "Irish" than another. They're all the same. You can fly all the Irish flags you want at CP and be formed by whoever you want, it doesn't change a thing.

I beg to differ - but if a clubs history, roots etc... are not enough to distinguish why a club may have a significant support in Ireland then I'm not going to waste my time doing it. However for the record we are NOT all the same.

Slash/ED

22/10/2004, 4:18 PM

I beg to differ - but if a clubs history, roots etc... are not enough to distinguish why a club may have a significant support in Ireland then I'm not going to waste my time doing it. However for the record we are NOT all the same.

Man U has even more support in Ireland I would imagine, nobody trys to claim they're Irish. Well Dunphy did once I think :rolleyes: But history and roots, that being formed by an Irishman and flying a flag, do NOT make Celtic an Irish club. I've no problem with people supporting them, but they're a foreign club just like the rest.

Junior

22/10/2004, 4:25 PM

LOL.

Now where's my blue peter badge yadda yadda yadda?! :rolleyes: :D

KOH

http://www.pressurepr.co.uk/pics/bluepeter.jpg

save you the job finding it - need any help putting it on?

liam88

22/10/2004, 6:34 PM

Having been on work experience for the last week have been slughtly detached (from this board at least ;) ) so have skipped a few pages-but for goodness sake; ya folk who everytime one of us even MENTIONS the world Celtic when we are playing well-we get crtiticism for 'hijacking' or we get a ban. But as soon as Celtic have a bad game-(and yes it was a bad game-i admit, we didn't paly great, we had injuries, the ref was a farce etc.etc.)-you're all on here going on about Celtic!
Have it one way or the other but at the moment to me it seems that it's one rule for when Celtic are winning and another for when we aren't :confused:

Looking back on it most 'hijacked' thread have been hijacked by anti-Celts having a pop! If we really want to discuss Celtic we go to the Huddle Board (or Old Firm Fans) where we don't have to put up with la!ngers!!
As for Lurgans Finest he's one of ma role modles so hey :D

Cobh Ramblers F.C, Celtic FC, ROI National Team-Erins finest!

liam88

22/10/2004, 8:42 PM

(Settle for being the best side in Corcaigh first,heh? ;) )but concur with the rest! :cool:
Just because we're lower in the league it doesn't mean we're not better ;)
3 in a row!

eoinh

22/10/2004, 11:38 PM

To all the Muppets,puppets et al on here.....read 'Celtic Minded' by Prof.J.Bradley.....the first chapter's a bit too long,but otherwise an excellent summary of why so many Irish follow Celtic & clubs like them.....eg.Belfast Celtic

LOL

Err so many support Belfast Celtic!

That because Belfast is in Ireland.

eoinh

23/10/2004, 10:33 AM

Should say in their context,'followed'......sure if BC still existed,they'd be the biggest club in Ireland,at the expense of GC.......Look @ the reasons why they disbanded & Derry City play in the EL......Presume people are familiar with what happened!

You were going on about why Irish people follow clubs with supposidly Irish links abroad.

You proceeded to give some examples besides Celtic of Glasgow. You mentioned Belfast Celtic (which isnt abroad), Hibs (in all my life ive never met a hibs supporter, never seen someone wearing a hibs jersey - supports my theory that those Irish people who "support" celtic are nothing but grayites.
Your last example was London Irish (which is a rugby club - no interest in rugby). I'ld burn that book you bought by your Prof. friend.

lopez

23/10/2004, 2:40 PM

You were going on about why Irish people follow clubs with supposidly Irish links abroad... I'ld burn that book you bought by your Prof. friend.Yet another fine example of the Irish Free State education system! :rolleyes: Clubs with 'supposidly' Irish links? Perhaps emigration was also 'supposidly' a figment of the imagination.

eoinh

23/10/2004, 5:15 PM

Was talking outside the '26'......if you've never met a person who supports another sports club,other than Celtic,founded by the Irish Diaspora,I'll ask Bertie the next time I see him :rolleyes: ,to increase the budget for Cork Libraries as some of their more unenlightened citizens need further educating ! ;)

So now youre saying cork people support belfast celtic. err, ive never met one.

eoinh

23/10/2004, 6:09 PM

Lots of people in Corcaigh follow Celtic & er,plenty of people inside/outside Ireland follow other sporting clubs,on the basis of their links with the auld country!More enlightenment,beyond parochialism would :rolleyes: ,er,be good! ;)

C'mon now Davros you didnt mention Belfast Celtic! Are we having a rethink. We're all wrong sometimes.

liam88

23/10/2004, 6:39 PM

So now youre saying cork people support belfast celtic. err, ive never met one.
Head over to London for the Christmas party, shake my hand and you will have :D

liam88

23/10/2004, 6:52 PM

Should say in their context,'followed'......sure if BC still existed,they'd be the biggest club in Ireland,at the expense of GC.......Look @ the reasons why they disbanded & Derry City play in the EL......Presume people are familiar with what happened!
Belfast Celtic still exist-just not playing football! One day though- re-build paradise, get the Bhoys back together and FECK scumfield!

liam88

23/10/2004, 6:53 PM

RAAA-Spect! :D

:D
Still waiting for Adam to put up the BCFC avater-(may alternate it with me Cobh one!)

eoinh

23/10/2004, 6:59 PM

BCFC's old ground - sadly no longer exists (http://www.belfastceltic.net/images/paradise.jpg)

liam88

23/10/2004, 9:32 PM

BCFC's old ground - sadly no longer exists (http://www.belfastceltic.net/images/paradise.jpg)
Aye but both the club and the memory live on-hence the ambition to re-build paradise and once again rule Irish football!

(alonmg with Cobh of course ;) )

Ephor

24/10/2004, 1:05 AM

Just a couple of points, Robert.
Hibernians were also founded by the Irish, yet there is no mad scramble over here to support them.

Apologies for throwing a spanner in the works, but Hibernian and Celtic are really two clubs in very different circumstances. For whatever reason - well, probably more likely due to the sectarianism that existed and still exists in the west of Scotland - the culture amid which Celtic was created has been preserved with far more in tact than that of Hibernian.

Of course, I'm not trying to pass Celtic as possessing a "true Irish culture" or whatever, such a claim would be ridiculous.

I am a Celtic fan though ;)

lopez

24/10/2004, 8:46 AM

Apologies for throwing a spanner in the works, but Hibernian and Celtic are really two clubs in very different circumstances. For whatever reason - well, probably more likely due to the sectarianism that existed and still exists in the west of Scotland - the culture amid which Celtic was created has been preserved with far more in tact than that of Hibernian.

Of course, I'm not trying to pass Celtic as possessing a "true Irish culture" or whatever, such a claim would be ridiculous.

I am a Celtic fan though ;)A sensible post at last. Pity you spoilt it by admitting you're a Celtic fan. ;)

I'd agree that there is a certain amount of glory-hunting with Irish football fans supporting any team outside their home town or area that they have no connection with (eg: themselves or a parent born or lived in said place). However the Irishness of Celtic was long apparent before Sky TV came on the scene and half of Ireland started wearing Celtic shirts. Look at the photos of 'What's The Story' by my old friend Shay Blair and another bloke I can't remember, or Mary Hunt's Euro 88 or Italia 90 diaries, and the Celtic shirts are ever-present.

I'm reading another book at the moment that should be no doubt placed on the eoinh literature pyre. :rolleyes: Called 'Irish: The Remarkable Saga of a Nation and a City' by John Burrowes, it is the first history written of the Irish in Glasgow which doesn't centre around Celtic, beginning with a chapter on the luxurious travel arrangements of those bound for Scotland around the time of the famine. The story of the SS L*****derry makes particularly grim reading where a quarter of its passengers were suffocated below decks on a overnight journey in a heavy storm from Sligo to Derry. Not that I suspect this incident was ever brought up in an Irish school's history lesson (tut, tut: Can't dwell on the past can we?). Anyways, despite being about the city's Irish community, the book still manages to have a whole chapter on the 'supposidly' Irish links of Celtic FC.

eoinh

24/10/2004, 9:58 AM

Ireland is a nation of many influences. What you are doing is just concentrating on one tiny aspect of it while ignoring everyother aspect.

liam88

24/10/2004, 10:43 AM

Junior

24/10/2004, 11:02 AM

Ireland is a nation of many influences. What you are doing is just concentrating on one tiny aspect of it while ignoring everyother aspect.

what you are doing is simply ignoring FACTs surrounding Celtics formation, history and fanbase.

lopez

24/10/2004, 11:37 AM

Ireland is a nation of many influences. What you are doing is just concentrating on one tiny aspect of it while ignoring everyother aspect. :confused: Well let's see! What has been the most overriding aspect of Irish history over the last two hundred years?

Act of Union? Lasted 120 years in it's entirety although still going on today viz a viz the North!

Independence? 82 years. At first limited and still not taking in all the country.

The troubles? 25 - 30 years recently. Couple of years either side of WW1 and a civil war between two shades of nationalists.

Socialism? Yeah right! :rolleyes:

Emigration? From a population in Ireland of around 9m in 1841 to over 5m in 2001. Bearing in mind that most European countries population have increased in that time, this is quite startling. England's increased from around 13m to 50m in that period. Ireland would be looking at around 40m people by now in comparison. Mass emigration stretched from before the Famine (mostly Protestants) to around the early to mid 1990s. With the exception of a brief period in the 1960s and 70s, only the present Celtic Tiger and the North's Peace Dividend has halted emigration from Ireland and that now it's population is actually growing. Looking back, there is no guarantee that emigration will not return and the Irish government will have to go grovelling to the US arguing that they take some people off their hands while other more worthy populations freeing famine and war should be told to f*ck off.

I would argue that this has been the most important event to have happened to Ireland over the last 200 years. I would also like to know how much of this subject was ever discussed in Irish schools (either in History or some other subject like Sociology), because the level of ignorance on such an important event is quite frankly, laughable aswell as highly irritating. (EG: What's an Englishman doing s'porting Ireland? How come you're not at Wembley? etc.,etc, ad nauseam)

eoinh

24/10/2004, 12:05 PM

Lopez i'm perfectly aware of all this.

My brother lives happily in England and i suspect wont be coming back. If you can find one post where i even hint that you or persons in your situation should support england post it up.

But the point you keep pounding on about is that i should support celtic is laughable. I feel no connection whatsoever to them. If there were thousands of people in Ireland who supported Brann Bergen because of Bergens deep historical roots with Ireland that would annoy me to. But as Brann dont enjoy major success that doesnt happen. (I live in Waterford which has many viking links - even the name of the county itself "ford" = "fjord").

No one can deny that the vast majority who support celtic only do so because they are successful. Most of them have probably never been to a live match in their lives and wouldnt recognise a football if it hit them in their face.

A curious anomoly is that most emmigrants or their offspring tend to support their home town not the clubs of the towns they live in. You dont find mant Turks in Germany supporting german clubs. They are all besiktas, Trabzonspor or Ankaragucu supporters. Not many Turkish based greeks in Istanbul would support Fenerbahce for instance. They are more likely to be Panathinaikos fans. In Ireland we get the reverse :rolleyes:

Plastic Paddy

24/10/2004, 1:03 PM

A curious anomoly is that most emmigrants or their offspring tend to support their home town not the clubs of the towns they live in. You dont find mant Turks in Germany supporting german clubs. They are all besiktas, Trabzonspor or Ankaragucu supporters. Not many Turkish based greeks in Istanbul would support Fenerbahce for instance. They are more likely to be Panathinaikos fans. In Ireland we get the reverse :rolleyes:

Well, if the standard of eircom League football was any good, we second- and third-genners would support Irish clubs instead, wouldn't we? :eek: ;) :D

:D PP

lopez

24/10/2004, 1:10 PM

But the point you keep pounding on about is that i should support celtic is laughable. I feel no connection whatsoever to them.I've never said that you should support Celtic. I don't support Celtic myself. I go to their games in London to meet up with my mates - our Northern friend Duncan Gardner did likewise - and get hammered (unfortunately too hammered last time). Why would I want to encourage someone to support Celtic.

I've consistently championed Irish domestic football. It p*sses me off to hear about Celtic fans questioning the Irishness of St Pats fans during their match. And I've seen first hand the lunatic fringe of Celtic support both in Ireland and Glasgow.

However, Celtic is not Brann Bergen. Largescale Irish emigration into Scotland finished in the fifties. You cannot compare the connection with a bunch of cow-horned rapists a thousand years ago. As for the Turkish analogy, you're right. I support Deportivo for that reason. I don't follow an English club. Many 2G come from areas without a EL team or have two parents from different countries, but you can see that plenty of 2G posters on here have EL club avatars. Please DH, could we have a SJG to keep Davros happy? I've personally seen EL clubs in Europe more over the past 15 years than Celtic. I would have gone to Lille, but I fancied Depor in Monaco with Conchita. Lille or Monaco? Which would you prefer? Conchita said if it's anywhere with Dubs, I won't be coming home with my cojones. :D

And I've yet to see an answer from anyone about what they learnt about emigration in Irish schools. Please!!!!!!!! I'm interested...seriously!

eoinh

24/10/2004, 2:23 PM

And I've yet to see an answer from anyone about what they learnt about emigration in Irish schools. Please!!!!!!!! I'm interested...seriously!

We agree totally. I dont why we are arguing. i have no problem with Irish people supporting teams of the cities they live in abroad. Im sure I'ld do it myself.

As for emigration studies in school. I think we learnt about why it happened - potatoe crop failure, large families, inaction of the majority of the British
authorities, no large scale industry and tarrifs on anything irish produced sent to england causing no industrial development and hence no job opportunities.

However the experiences of the Irish abroad and their life in Britain, Austalia, New Zealand, South africa, The carribean etc was totally overlooked.

I did my leaving in 1988 so things might have changed since then. Doubt it though.

Oh and happy birthday! Youre one of the few on here older than me. Congrats :)

Plastic Paddy

24/10/2004, 7:28 PM

And I've yet to see an answer from anyone about what they learnt about emigration in Irish schools. Please!!!!!!!! I'm interested...seriously!

Well, those of us hailing from the diaspora county of Shepherd's Bush who actually gave a **** in the first place had to study to Masters' level to find the answers, so I'm not surprised that all the ard sc�il sheep have never heard of it... are you? :confused: ;) :D

:D PP

Pat O' Banton

24/10/2004, 8:11 PM

F*** sake I go away for a couple of days...

Pat O' Banton

24/10/2004, 8:39 PM

Chorlton Irish Club? Leeds Irish Centre? Or the many other Irish centre's around the world, never mind Britain? Why wouldn't they be welcome there :confused:

Well thank you Macy I see you are finally understanding.

These places are IRISH CENTRES because when Irish people came to Britain (or Austrailia, USA etc) they set up centres to provide a cultural, social, sporting, emotional or advice support to emigrants. Glasgow Celtic are one facet of this proud heritage, to me saying Celtic are nothing to do with Ireland is as pointless as saying that the London Irish Centre is nothing to do with Ireland. Thanks for making your point in such an interesting way.

As for the football, why are eL fans informing us that the Scottish league is of a poor standard? Well duh, Celtic fans are the ones who watch more it than you do, we are well aware of the fact.

lopez

25/10/2004, 12:53 AM

We agree totally...Oh and happy birthday! Youre one of the few on here older than me. Congrats :)Muchas gracias, amigo! Another year with my liver. Shame I had to spend most of it at work, but hey! To add to PP's obs, I studied emigration at Uni BA level in Britain at the Uni North London, which did have a half decent Irish Studies course (Major or minor but sadly not whole). Personally a bit more on the emigrants' experience should be given in Irish education but I can also appreciate that farting around with this subject at the expense of something more vocational could lead to the spectre of largescale emigration returning. Anyway, noone can deny that Ireland is short of books on the subject for those interested or in need of direction. ;)

lopez

25/10/2004, 1:29 AM

...I am & always will be 1g...Nonsense!! The day you lost your Oirish accent you became 2G like Finnan, Doherty and that bloke who's shooting everyone in The Bill who used to be in Eastbenders. Welcome to the club, honcho! It's a club you'll never leave. :D :D

sylvo

25/10/2004, 8:38 AM

PS.A.B.M.! :D

To right Dav :mad: :D

liam88

25/10/2004, 9:56 AM

A curious anomoly is that most emmigrants or their offspring tend to support their home town not the clubs of the towns they live in. You dont find mant Turks in Germany supporting german clubs. They are all besiktas, Trabzonspor or Ankaragucu supporters. Not many Turkish based greeks in Istanbul would support Fenerbahce for instance. They are more likely to be Panathinaikos fans. In Ireland we get the reverse :rolleyes:

CRFC till I die-and yes I do come over and see the matches and no at the moment we're not highly 'sucessful'!!