Saipan - 20 Years On

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah fair enough. I THINK it was a pre-arranged interview.....but in general the media around Keane (the testimonial etc) played a big part in it all. Should have been given a few days to cool down, sat down with Mick for a pint/cup of tea and then lifted the World Cup trophy. Instead, it's 20 years later and I'm furiously refreshing an internet forum looking for a fight about a footballer not playing in a football tournament because there was a lack of footballs provided for the footballing preparation for the football.

[Eirambler]

What criticisms of the team do you remember? The interview he gave was harmless enough, even funny at times and McCarthy blew it out of all proportion. They could have put it to bed over a cup of tea and moved on. Instead McCarthy tried to dress down his captain in front of the team. It was a really bizarre decision for me. Obviously stuff had been building and they don't seem to have ever seen eye to eye but again, it's one of the worst displays of man mgmt I can remember. If Keane hadn't been completely committed on the field it might be different but he was. Accusing him of faking injuries and calling him out in front of people like that was just the worst way to handle the situation.

You can read the interview here. (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/people-were-not-happy-but-life-goes-on-nobody-died-1.1058213)

Nothing in there attacking the team at all. He mentions the bust up with Kelly that they were laughing about together afterwards. He mentions something Quinn said previously. Nothing else about any players or the team in general. Nothing even about McCarthy himself really. The FAI are the main target if anyone is. And the media over the coverage he got for missing Quinn's testimonial. McCarthy took it personally though which says more about McCarthy than Keane to me. Both flawed but one was there to manage, flaws and all.

I don't agree with your assessment of that interview - he had a swipe at pretty much everyone over the course of that! The manager, the keepers, the other players, the media, the association etc. Not that there wasn't any truth in much of it, but if ever an opinion needed to be held over until after a tournament that was the time. Especially after the staying/leaving drama the day before, he should have just put his head down at that point, retired after the tournament and saved it all for the book.

Reading it again 20 years on just reinforces my view that he didn't want to be there and if they had somehow made it to Japan he'd have just walked out over something else anyway.

Interesting comment at the end about becoming a manager one day - nobody would want to play for me but we'd have great training facilities. He thought he was joking but it preempted his failed management career pretty well.

[Fixer82]

McCarthy, by his own account, DID go to Saipan to check the island out.
The idea was to do some light training, acclimatise to the heat and let the lads have a few pints one of the nights cos when they got to Japan/Korea it would be down to business.

Check out his live interview with Eamon Dunphy

https://youtu.be/F0Sn5ggFKfQ

[ontheotherhand]

I don't agree with your assessment of that interview - he had a swipe at pretty much everyone over the course of that! The manager, the keepers, the other players, the media, the association etc. Not that there wasn't any truth in much of it, but if ever an opinion needed to be held over until after a tournament that was the time. Especially after the staying/leaving drama the day before, he should have just put his head down at that point, retired after the tournament and saved it all for the book.

Reading it again 20 years on just reinforces my view that he didn't want to be there and if they had somehow made it to Japan he'd have just walked out over something else anyway.

Interesting comment at the end about becoming a manager one day - nobody would want to play for me but we'd have great training facilities. He thought he was joking but it preempted his failed management career pretty well.

What would you pick out as examples of swipes? I read a captain giving his honest opinions in a very light tone and as you say most of it was accurate. It's not as if the team didn't know how he felt already so for anyone to take any of that personally is very strange.

He even admits he's been a bit of a weapon to soften anything that could be taken the wrong way.

"I come off the worst, no matter what! Eventually the penny has to drop but you need to put the penny in. I'm learning but I'm only human. These things happen for a reason. You have to learn from these things, the bad things. Without a doubt. I think the best has still to come. I've made mistakes. I'm better for the mistakes. Introduce me to somebody who hasn't made mistakes and I'll shake his hand. Things happen for a reason, I'm sure the man upstairs is guiding me along the way, putting a few obstacles in the way but I feel very happy with life. I do. I just don't want us going home saying 'if only we'd prepared better'."

[Kingdom]

McCarthy, by his own account, DID go to Saipan to check the island out.
The idea was to do some light training, acclimatise to the heat and let the lads have a few pints one of the nights cos when they got to Japan/Korea it would be down to business.

Check out his live interview with Eamon Dunphy

https://youtu.be/F0Sn5ggFKfQ

Wasn't it Ray Treacy who did the scouring for the training camp and settled on Saipan?

[Eirambler]

What would you pick out as examples of swipes? I read a captain giving his honest opinions in a very light tone and as you say most of it was accurate. It's not as if the team didn't know how he felt already so for anyone to take any of that personally is very strange.

He even admits he's been a bit of a weapon to soften anything that could be taken the wrong way.

"I come off the worst, no matter what! Eventually the penny has to drop but you need to put the penny in. I'm learning but I'm only human. These things happen for a reason. You have to learn from these things, the bad things. Without a doubt. I think the best has still to come. I've made mistakes. I'm better for the mistakes. Introduce me to somebody who hasn't made mistakes and I'll shake his hand. Things happen for a reason, I'm sure the man upstairs is guiding me along the way, putting a few obstacles in the way but I feel very happy with life. I do. I just don't want us going home saying 'if only we'd prepared better'."

I mean the whole thing nearly feels like a dig at them, but there's a few quotes in particular - things that you just can't say while you're in camp with your teammates, especially just a week out from the world cup. If he comes off worst it's because of the things he says to people, or about them...

"I've come over here to do well and I want people around me to want to do well. If I feel we're not all wanting the same things, there's no point."

"Some people accept it easier. Maybe that's why some of our players are playing where they are."

"I'm here for myself and the people of Ireland and my family. Sod everybody else."

"I told Mick I had enough. Basically that was it. We've had discussions already the other night about training facilities. You've got to prepare properly is my attitude..."

[Razors left peg]

Whatever about the Saipan and Keane stuff, Ive also thought it was completely glossed over of how bad a job McCarthy did in that World Cup. We did well in spite of him because we had brilliant players like Robbie and Duffer.

He constantly picked an out of form Ian Harte, who if I recall correctly was subbed off in almost every game. He even allowed Harte to take a pen when his confidence was completely destroyed. There was also a presser where someone called McCarthy out on it and asked something along the lines of "What do you say to those who have concerns about Hartes lack of form and confidence", to which McCarthy replied "Tell them to Bo11ocks" or something like that.

He constantly picked Duff out of position up front where he was far less effective than on the wing, again in every game that had to be adjusted at some point.

My favorite one though was that he admitted that he didnt realize that Spain were down to 10 men for the 2nd half of extra time.

For years before that World Cup I didnt rate him, and its annoyed me ever since that hes held up at this great manager who did well for us in the World Cup. He was carried by great players with Ireland.

[ontheotherhand]

The first and last are harmless for me..nothing that hadn't been discussed and more of a clarification on the context of any arguments. The middle two are borderline but he doesn't name names and if you're a professional footballer you should be well able to deal with an indirect call out from your captain. Or a direct one in person which I'm sure they all got as well. The whole time of the interview is "yeah we had an argument, I got fed up, yeah I'm a hothead but heres the context, it's put to bed now, we move on".

I wouldn't think any player read that in the morning and took it too badly. Mick clearly did but he wasn't even being blamed in the article for the situation.

[SkStu]

Managers job is to get the best players on the pitch to give you the best chance of winning.
McCarthy obviously didn't prepare properly (having one of his team check out the facilities) or the facilities would have been up to scratch.
This is done routinely by any competent management team going to a finals.
Keane may be a tosser but he had reason to complain and shouldn't have had any reason if the Management team had done their job.......and i'm not a United fan :)

McCarthy .....guilty of poor preparation and not getting the best team on the pitch by confronting Keane when he should have said "Roy is right the conditions are ****".
.
Keane .....guilty of being a whingy fecker.

I'd agree fully with this take if Saipan (or something of similar "quality") had been the intended squad camp for the duration of the tournament. But, as someone else pointed out, it wasnt. It was a pitstop for a few days where the squad could relax, bond and do some light physical and tactical work. I think thats where that side of the argument falls down.

[Eirambler]

Whatever about the Saipan and Keane stuff, Ive also thought it was completely glossed over of how bad a job McCarthy did in that World Cup. We did well in spite of him because we had brilliant players like Robbie and Duffer.

He constantly picked an out of form Ian Harte, who if I recall correctly was subbed off in almost every game. He even allowed Harte to take a pen when his confidence was completely destroyed. There was also a presser where someone called McCarthy out on it and asked something along the lines of "What do you say to those who have concerns about Hartes lack of form and confidence", to which McCarthy replied "Tell them to Bo11ocks" or something like that.

He constantly picked Duff out of position up front where he was far less effective than on the wing, again in every game that had to be adjusted at some point.

My favorite one though was that he admitted that he didnt realize that Spain were down to 10 men for the 2nd half of extra time.

For years before that World Cup I didnt rate him, and its annoyed me ever since that hes held up at this great manager who did well for us in the World Cup. He was carried by great players with Ireland.

There's no question Mick made some mistakes at the tournament alright.

Firstly he let McAteer trick him into thinking he was fit for the opening game. He was a waste of a jersey for 45 minutes before he was taken off.

Harte was carrying an injury the whole tournament. The problem was we didn't have any other decent left backs in the squad. Staunton was too old and slow to play left full at that stage and Kilbane was an out and out midfielder, he only played in defence later in his career. So I'm not sure if that was a mistake or we just had no other option. I can't even think of any other good Irish left backs from that time that were left out of the squad, although maybe I'm forgetting someone.

I think Duff up front was an OK call, Quinn couldn't really play the full 90 by then so using Duff that way allowed Quinn to come on fresh later in the game. The next best option was probably Morrison, but when it came to it against Spain he brought on Connolly instead, who I never thought was international quality other than against the minnows. I think he should have brought on Morrison there.

And absolutely no excuses for not recognising Spain were down to 10 in extra time, as bad a blunder as I can remember from an Irish manager (if you exclude Staunton's entire time as manager!)

[pineapple stu]

The thing with that Spain game is what would he have done differently had he noticed anyway?

We were all over them at that stage, and in the second period, Spain pretty much had everyone behind the ball and were lumping clear. We'd used all our subs, including bringing Connolly and Quinn on for Harte and Kelly - so we had Keane, Duff, Connolly and Quinn all on the pitch.

I'm not sure what else could have been done really.

Can certainly agree on the frustration of starting Harte every time only to sub him off.

[elatedscum]

Staunton was too old and slow to play left full at that stage and Kilbane was an out and out midfielder, he only played in defence later in his career. So I'm not sure if that was a mistake or we just had no other option. I can't even think of any other good Irish left backs from that time that were left out of the squad, although maybe I'm forgetting someone.

you could argue denis irwin's decision to retire was down to mccarthy (or at least that was how it was explained to me as a 9 year old). he was still really good in the 2 seasons he played for wolves after the world cup, which probably cost him a place in the squad.

presumably delap was purely a midfielder at that point in his career? he went on to play left back for stoke. i remember he gave the ball away badly which led to a goal in one of the friendlies in the advance of the world cup.

John O'Shea perhaps?

[tetsujin1979]

I think Duff up front was an OK call, Quinn couldn't really play the full 90 by then so using Duff that way allowed Quinn to come on fresh later in the game. The next best option was probably Morrison, but when it came to it against Spain he brought on Connolly instead, who I never thought was international quality other than against the minnows. I think he should have brought on Morrison there.

Connolly was brought in because he was performing really well in training, definitely remember reading that he scored five times in a game

[Razors left peg]

Irwin was told by McCarthy in some game to "go and prove himself". Irwin rightly basically said F you and retired.

[Eirambler]

Yes possibly O'Shea. He made his debut in the run up to the tournament but McCarthy went for Andy O'Brien over him at centre back and never played him or Dunne at the tournament. I'm not sure how much O'Shea had played as a full back at that stage but he played there a fair bit for United afterwards.

[seanfhear]

Irwin was told by McCarthy in some game to "go and prove himself". Irwin rightly basically said F you and retired.
McCarthy badly mis-handled Denis Irwin alright. Irwin was still playing great stuff at that stage.

McCarthy made plenty of mistakes as did Roy Keane. I suppose the thing is, McCarthy was the manager and is supposed to be smarter than to be making such mistakes !!

[Eirambler]

Irwin was told by McCarthy in some game to "go and prove himself". Irwin rightly basically said F you and retired.

That was nuts from McCarthy. Irwin was 36 by the time the World Cup came around but could have offered useful cover for Harte.

It's a shame Irwin only ever played two finals games for Ireland, he just missed the 1990 World Cup at the start of his career and just missed 2002 at the end.

[ontheotherhand]

I'd agree fully with this take if Saipan (or something of similar "quality") had been the intended squad camp for the duration of the tournament. But, as someone else pointed out, it wasnt. It was a pitstop for a few days where the squad could relax, bond and do some light physical and tactical work. I think thats where that side of the argument falls down.


Until it resulted in players getting injured though. I think it was more than the training facilities though. It was the 3 flights they took en route, the lack of equipment and general chaos surrounding the whole camp. Even as rest and relaxation exercise it was a failure. Aside from the breezy jaunt up Suicide Hill of course.....

At least we can surely all agree that the FAI are a shower of tossers?

[John83]

Irwin was told by McCarthy in some game to "go and prove himself". Irwin rightly basically said F you and retired.
I see where he's coming from, but that sounds like vanity to me. At that level, if you don't always feel like you're proving yourself, your motivation is probably flagging. He was just leaving Man Utd - he'd clearly lost a yard of pace - and I'd interpret that quote as "show me why you should start ahead of Harte", which he had no automatic right to do at that point in their careers.


Yes possibly O'Shea. He made his debut in the run up to the tournament but McCarthy went for Andy O'Brien over him at centre back and never played him or Dunne at the tournament. I'm not sure how much O'Shea had played as a full back at that stage but he played there a fair bit for United afterwards.
O'Shea only really broke through at Man Utd the following year. He did that quite dramatically at left back, but I think he'd have been viewed as a talented but completely green centre half / right back at the time. It was only after he got his shot at left back at Man Utd the following season (I think there must have been injuries to Silvestre and Phil Neville) that it was clear he could play men's football to a high level across the back four. I never saw him play as well again at full back as that first season. I think they must have coached his attacking instincts out of him to improve his defending, but watching him nutmeg Figo before bombing up the wing against Real Madrid was glorious. Anyway, McCarthy would have taken a risk to take him; even if it might have worked out brilliantly in hindsight, I don't think it was a strange decision at the time.


At least we can surely all agree that the FAI are a shower of tossers?
I think it's the site motto.

[jbyrne]

Reading it again 20 years on just reinforces my view that he didn't want to be there and if they had somehow made it to Japan he'd have just walked out over something else anyway.


Have always thought that he was injured at the time and his frustration that he knew he wasn't going to be in proper physical condition for the tournament contributed to his mood.
Probably a small thing but I remember discussing with a few friends at one of the warm up games a couple of weeks before (Nigeria I think) that Roy looked very out of sorts.
The fact that he needed a hip operation that summer might back up my theory.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Reactions to Keane's interview will of course differ from person-to-person, and some might see no harm in it. But I think you can't treat it as if it's in a vacuum, it came after Keane's behavior at the camp was already bothering players and coaches, after he told people he was leaving, then staying and a constant sense that the man treated his team-mates as some terrible burden. You can easily imagine a degree of frustration building about the man, then he takes a few swipes in a newspaper. Considering Keane's club background, under a manager practically famous for a mantra that you never, ever criticise your own players in public, if it was just a case of comments with no genuine ill-intention Keane is the one player in the squad who should have known better. But I think he was in a low place, didn't really want to stay even if he had just said he did, and thus no longer cared about those kinds of things. He had checked out internally.

[seanfhear]

One can only wonder that except for his, football talent = = Where would Roy Keane have ended up otherwise ?

[Fixer82]

Not sure McCarthy would have done anything different had he known Spain were down to 10.
We were all over them by the end of it.

Breen had a chance, Connolly came close too

[sbgawa]

I'd agree fully with this take if Saipan (or something of similar "quality") had been the intended squad camp for the duration of the tournament. But, as someone else pointed out, it wasnt. It was a pitstop for a few days where the squad could relax, bond and do some light physical and tactical work. I think thats where that side of the argument falls down.

Fair point but even for light training for a few days a rock hard pitch and no "skips" with the kit is unacceptable.
Keane had a point which imo he should have been able to get over but if Mick had done his job it wouldn't have arisen

[jbyrne]

Fair point but even for light training for a few days a rock hard pitch and no "skips" with the kit is unacceptable.
Keane had a point which imo he should have been able to get over but if Mick had done his job it wouldn't have arisen

to be fair, i dont think its the managers responsibility to ensure the equipment arrives. there was a probably a few logistics personnel employed to look after these things. I would be very worried if there wasn't.

i cant believe that i am debating this again 20 years later!

[seanfhear]

Goes to show it hasn't been a great 20 years of international football for the Republic of Ireland.

[Fixer82]

The buck stops with the manger but I feel a bit for McCarthy cos it seems someone royally fu##ed up with the gear and the skips.
The team flew to Holland first because they did a deal with the Dutch FA to purchase their tickets/flight because they'd assumed they'd be going and not us.

FAI are the real culprits at the back of it all. Amateur organisation. And in our time of need when we need a real hero, one stepped in.....John Delaney

[NeverFeltBetter]

And it was during that transfer that Keane had the opportunity to have a pop at some journalists who had written unflattering things regards his non-appearance at the Niall Quinn testimonial.

[Kingdom]

to have a pop at some journalists

I referred to that earlier :)

[Diggs246]

Reactions to Keane's interview will of course differ from person-to-person, and some might see no harm in it. But I think you can't treat it as if it's in a vacuum, it came after Keane's behavior at the camp was already bothering players and coaches, after he told people he was leaving, then staying and a constant sense that the man treated his team-mates as some terrible burden. You can easily imagine a degree of frustration building about the man, then he takes a few swipes in a newspaper. Considering Keane's club background, under a manager practically famous for a mantra that you never, ever criticise your own players in public, if it was just a case of comments with no genuine ill-intention Keane is the one player in the squad who should have known better. But I think he was in a low place, didn't really want to stay even if he had just said he did, and thus no longer cared about those kinds of things. He had checked out internally.

Did you do the same thing at man utd. I think it was on their in-house tv channel
Criticised the utd team etc. Ferguson sacked him on the spot.

[jbyrne]

The buck stops with the manger but I feel a bit for McCarthy cos it seems someone royally fu##ed up with the gear and the skips.


i just cant accept that any manager of a professional team would accept responsibility for the equipment arrangements.
their skillset is management of the players and coaching not dealing with DHL.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Yeah, after they got stuffed in a game against Middlesboro he went on a rant and named several players he felt were underperforming, John O'Shea among them. It was a pre-record so never made it to air. I don't think he was let go on the spot, it took a few weeks, but his time as a United player was finished that day really.

[Diggs246]

Yeah, after they got stuffed in a game against Middlesboro he went on a rant and named several players he felt were underperforming, John O'Shea among them. It was a pre-record so never made it to air. I don't think he was let go on the spot, it took a few weeks, but his time as a United player was finished that day really.

If memory serves Utd went on to have one of their most successful periods after that?

[NeverFeltBetter]

If memory serves Utd went on to have one of their most successful periods after that?

They won three leagues, a Champions League and two League cups in the next three and a half seasons. But for Barca becoming who they were at the time they might have had more in Europe. I wouldn't put Keane's departure as a huge part of that (I mean, Ronaldo came good for one thing!), but it was an element of a transition period when Ferguson was forming what would be his third great side. Keane was declining on the field, but by all accounts was as big a personality (you could say bully, but there's a fine line really) as ever on the training ground, and that was a problem I think. Keane has said Ferguson wasn't too torn up by his leaving, and there were plenty of options - Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Anderson, etc - in line to fill that role, albeit none of them could ever claim to be as good as Keane at his peak.

[John83]

Keane's legs started to go around then. He was tried in centre half, not without success, but he certainly hastened his own departure by making trouble he was no longer worth. None of that bunch were as good as peak Keane (though people started to revise opinions of Carrick when they realised how hard he was to replace) but he wasn't that player any more either.

[Razors left peg]

The current United squad could use someone like Keane in the dressing room calling them all out now.

[Eirambler]

They'd all just tell him to **** off I think.

[ontheotherhand]

If they don't listen to Ronaldo I don't think they'd listen to Keane. Ronaldo should be a hero to them and from what I can see they couldn't give a toss. That's a lost bunch.

Funny reading all the negative stuff about Keane though. I understand people might not forgive him for Saipan if they put the blame (wrongly!) at his door and I get why a Liverpool fan wouldn't like him but I don't know how anyone watching him play for Ireland, particularly in qualifying for that WC could hold such a negative view of him to be honest. You'd swear he wasn't one of the best midfielders and captains of his time as declared by some of the best players he played with and against. (https://punditarena.com/football/robredmond/roy-keane-quotes-about/) His character let him down here and there but it also raised him and those around him up.

It's a bit sad all around that his legacy was ruined for some by, in what is apparently not the average foot.ie opinion, a really badly managed situation on multiple fronts. I'd already had a pretty intense dislike of the FAI but after that WC I lost my interest in the national side altogether. It just didn't have the same attraction with Delaney taking headlines and the sour taste of Saipan left over. Gradually I've gotten back into it but it took almost 20 years!

[geysir]

For me it's not a black or white, for Ireland Keane was the epitome of a midfield general plus team leader yet at the same time I totally take issue with his issues in Saipan. Imo for some contrary reason he didn't want to be there right from the beginning of the trip, fine then take responsibility for that state of mind instead of railing against the world for being at fault. That game against Spain, still the feeling lingers that we were more than a match against them and left a great opportunity behind on the pitch.

[pineapple stu]

It's a bit sad all around that his legacy was ruined for some by, in what is apparently not the average foot.ie opinion, a really badly managed situation on multiple fronts.
I don't think anyone doubts Keane was a great player.

I'm not sure though if Saipan is as standalone an incident as you suggest. From the 92 row to that infamous handshake after the Dutch win, Saipan seems more like the spark that set things off rather than an isolated incident of Keane sticking up for his squad and their facilities.

That's definitely Keane's fault, even if you can for sure criticise other parties for their contributions (especially the FAI)

[Fixer82]

Keane also suggested bringing a fitness expert into the Irish squad to prepare for WC. Forget his name but he was the man who made United the fittest team around. McCarthy didn't agree he should be brought in.

[ULsurvey1]

Mick Clegg was the guy Keane wanted to bring in

[Diggs246]

Question. Was Keane's attack on McCarthy rasist? ( or the like)

It went some like.
"You some how ended up managing my country you English c""t"

[NeverFeltBetter]

Keane also suggested bringing a fitness expert into the Irish squad to prepare for WC. Forget his name but he was the man who made United the fittest team around. McCarthy didn't agree he should be brought in.

Mick Clegg probably, he's a name that crops up in a lot of players memories of that period. I read somewhere that he was credited with turning Ronaldo into, well, Ronaldo. I never knew Keane wanted him in Saipan/Japan. But how much could he have done in a few weeks?

[third policeman]

Question. Was Keane's attack on McCarthy rasist? ( or the like)

It went some like.
"You some how ended up managing my country you English c""t"

Yes and I wonder how the other English born players in the squad would have taken that comment from their so-called leader and captain. Presume at some level he had similar views about McAteer, Reid, Breen, Morrison Kilbane, Connolly and Kelly.

[tetsujin1979]

Mick Clegg probably, he's a name that crops up in a lot of players memories of that period. I read somewhere that he was credited with turning Ronaldo into, well, Ronaldo. I never knew Keane wanted him in Saipan/Japan. But how much could he have done in a few weeks?
That only came out this year - https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/i-was-what-roy-wanted-but-mccarthy-said-no-united-fitness-guru-mick-clegg-on-new-twist-to-the-saipan-tale-41473447.html
Unfortuantely, the article is behind a paywall


Yes and I wonder how the other English born players in the squad would have taken that comment from their so-called leader and captain. Presume at some level he had similar views about McAteer, Reid, Breen, Morrison Kilbane, Connolly and Kelly.
There was something in his first autobiography about that, something like "I thought the lads who weren't born in Ireland didn't try as hard". Alan McLoughlin was another one named in the book, but that was Dunphy putting his name in. Keane apologised to McLoughlin in person for that.

[Exgrad]

Question. Was Keane's attack on McCarthy rasist? ( or the like)

It went some like.
"You some how ended up managing my country you English c""t"

Would really like to see some evidence something along these lines was said. I don't believe it was.

[ontheotherhand]

I don't think anyone doubts Keane was a great player.

I'm not sure though if Saipan is as standalone an incident as you suggest. From the 92 row to that infamous handshake after the Dutch win, Saipan seems more like the spark that set things off rather than an isolated incident of Keane sticking up for his squad and their facilities.

That's definitely Keane's fault, even if you can for sure criticise other parties for their contributions (especially the FAI)

A row and a handshake tho stu? If most players and managers went back over their career (particularly in their era) there would be similar events. Quinn's account of the Boston row doesn't paint McCarthy in the greatest light either (targeting the youngest player when half the team were on the ****) so I wouldn't be putting too much weight on it other than to say they didn't get on and it went back a fair way.

McCarthy should have been able to manage around that to get his best player going and he failed to do so. If anything he antagonized Keane.

Is Keane blameless? No. But I see why he was fuming about Saipan more than I see why McCarthy made the decisions he did to manage to situation. I still just don't understand calling that team meeting and slapping the newspaper on the table. What did he think was going to happen? David Brent would have done a better job.

But ultimately I still blame the FAI more than anyone.

[seanfhear]

Probably time to call it ~ ~ Sigh-Pain !

[ontheotherhand]

Probably time to call it ~ ~ Sigh-Pain !

Yeah let's move on to Thierry Henry.