American Politics

[dahamsta]

@Nesta99 is right, I've had enough of this crap. @seanshear and @nesta99 banned permanantly for trolling. I'm middle-aged now, I've better things to do with my time than deal with idiots and smart-arses. Trolls are scum, the only people that thinks they're funny is themselves. F*ck them.

[pineapple stu]

Nesta? Mistaken identity there, no? He's right but banned - did you mean someone else? Nesta is a very sensible poster

[Razors left peg]

I didnt think anyone was Trolling tbh, I just thought Seanfhear is a dope

[sbgawa]

@Nesta99 is right, I've had enough of this crap. @seanshear and @nesta99 banned permanantly for trolling. I'm middle-aged now, I've better things to do with my time than deal with idiots and smart-arses. Trolls are scum, the only people that thinks they're funny is themselves. F*ck them.

Nesta?? Apart from questionable knowledge of good football indont think he earned a ban here

[dahamsta]

That was a mistake, I corrected it immediately afterwards. I meant to say mark12345.

[Nesta99]

Ahhh I love you guys! Group hug! I might have banned me, though I was genuinely trying to get a handle on the mindset, see if there was any common ground at all. But there obviously was just an entrenched nonsensical bias, being nice maybe a confabulation. Having enaged with the trolls I didnt like being called an idiot, but I didnt need to thow it up at dahamsta either. A pm would have been the thing to do if I had really been significantly annoyed. So apologies there even if mistaken identity.

[Razors left peg]

Trumps speech to the UN today is quite something!

[CraftyToePoke]

I didnt think anyone was Trolling tbh, I just thought Seanfhear is a dope

I'd agree. Just not at, or anywhere near, the level of the conversation. The inability to understand not only the points made but even the question asked was in itself astounding.

Mark12345 is no better but he has the cop on when faced with people capable of critical analysis and competent counterpoint, to just go away for a month before returning banging the same stupid drum again about something else.

Not a lot between them & neither any loss IMO, here or elsewhere on the site.

I'd dropped out pages back over them, pointless. Fair play to those who argued on.

[SkStu]

is Seanfhear banned permanently from all subforums? jeez, it looks like it. Politics deffo, everywhere else he is harmless enough...

[Razors left peg]

Must admit the perma ban does not sit well with me. The fella has been a member since 2007. He wasn't abusive to anyone. I don't think hes the smartest lad in the world and he was dug in on stupidity... but its a bit ironic to ban someone during a conversation about free speech.

Should add that its not that Id particularly want him back either, just something doesnt feel right about it

[pineapple stu]

is Seanfhear banned permanently from all subforums? jeez, it looks like it. Politics deffo, everywhere else he is harmless enough...
I think I'd agree with that alright. A Current Affairs ban, yeah, but he was fine in the Ireland forum.

[nigel-harps1954]

Forum has rules though, to be fair.

Act the idiot, pay the punishment.

Certainly never caused much harm away from the public affairs forum, but really took the biscuit in here.

[SkStu]

It’s a bit of a Trumpian response let’s be honest. Close to 20 years good behaviour tarnished by a couple of weeks of idiocy is harsh. Nothing a perma-ban from Current Affairs and a stern warning to keep his nose clean everywhere else wouldn’t have fixed.

Seanfhear was a bit of a foot.ie institution. Our very own Dame Judi Dench.

[Nesta99]

I dont think he was trolling, obfuscating for sure and obstructing. I feel like a particpiant because I asked questiones which were replied to rather than answered, but not with insult except to my sense of logic. If there was an in between like banning from one sub rather than all I would have been more comfortable with it. It happens in the LoI firum where posters can get entrenched and usually the weight of others puts a stop to things, we didnt here or didnt listen. Buuuttt I think were all just a little afraid of being labled as, funnily enough, a bit rightie with ageeing a ban was warranted. That a ban is being discussed shows it isnt really the case. Who knows....

[dahamsta]

I disagree, I think both of them are trolls, pure and simple. They were asked to stop many, many times, provide evidence, stop making false claims, etc, etc, they simply ignored it. Enough was enough.

And if I'm wrong, and they're truly that ignorant, it's no loss either. I'm middle-aged now, with a mildly-nasty auto-immune disease, and this site basically costs me money to run at this point*. I have better things to do with my time that deal with trolls and cretins. Screw them.

* Which is fine, I don't mind. In fact I've just realised that Google can go f*ck themselves too, I'll take the ads off the site in a minute. It's not enough to care about.

[dahamsta]

Done, gone.

[SkStu]

You're gonna Make Footie Great Again!! :D

[pineapple stu]

Ooh - remember the Santa hat that used to be on the foot.ie logo? It could be a MAGA baseball cap :p

[Razors left peg]

I disagree, I think both of them are trolls, pure and simple. They were asked to stop many, many times, provide evidence, stop making false claims, etc, etc, they simply ignored it. Enough was enough.

And if I'm wrong, and they're truly that ignorant, it's no loss either. I'm middle-aged now, with a mildly-nasty auto-immune disease, and this site basically costs me money to run at this point*. I have better things to do with my time that deal with trolls and cretins. Screw them.

* Which is fine, I don't mind. In fact I've just realised that Google can go f*ck themselves too, I'll take the ads off the site in a minute. It's not enough to care about.

Fair enough, they did constantly make false statements and refuse to back it up. They wont be missed

[Nesta99]

Meh! Im fickle enough to change my mind from one post to the next - maybe im catching maga mouth disease!

[Razors left peg]

I disagree, I think both of them are trolls, pure and simple. They were asked to stop many, many times, provide evidence, stop making false claims, etc, etc, they simply ignored it. Enough was enough.

And if I'm wrong, and they're truly that ignorant, it's no loss either. I'm middle-aged now, with a mildly-nasty auto-immune disease, and this site basically costs me money to run at this point*. I have better things to do with my time that deal with trolls and cretins. Screw them.

* Which is fine, I don't mind. In fact I've just realised that Google can go f*ck themselves too, I'll take the ads off the site in a minute. It's not enough to care about.

Im still getting ads btw, is it a case of itll take a few days to go away?

[SkStu]

"Anti-immigration enforcement mass shooter shoots two immigrants dead"

Is there any more America 2025 headline than this? F*cking idiots one and all.

[Razors left peg]

"Anti-immigration enforcement mass shooter shoots two immigrants dead"

Is there any more America 2025 headline than this? F*cking idiots one and all.

The head of the FBI released images of a clip of unused bullets with "anti-ICE" written on it. Lets just assume for a second this it real actual evidence (and not the obvious plant).... everything Ive ever learned about TV police investigations tells me that this is tainting the evidence and no evidence is ever released to public as it may affect its use in court.

For the head of the FBI to be releasing this kind of stuff is unbelievable

[SkStu]

the dude shot himself though...court not required. If he is left/right/up/down it will come out. Its just all so fcking American.

[Razors left peg]

the dude shot himself though...court not required. If he is left/right/up/down it will come out. Its just all so fcking American.

Thats true, but what if there were accomplices. Its just insane that the FBI chief is tweeting supposed evidence for political gain

[SkStu]

Its evidentiary value is nil. Motive is important and public interest. Without it stupid people’d be saying dead dude was right wing racist aiming at immigrants. Political gain is politics. Another violent attack on law enforcement is a political statement. None of it is surprising and none of it is shocking. Welcome to America 2025.

[Razors left peg]

Motive is something that is being assumed based on a dodgy photo from a very dodgy guy. Anti Ice is a bit of a weird thing to write on a bullet that just happens to be left around. If it was fcuk ICE it would be more believable.

Im sorry, I just dont trust a single thing that comes from a single person in this administration

[Nesta99]

It's just too convenient. Its like somebody said I hope there is anti Ice evidence and somebody put anti- Ice evidence on the bullets ala a Naked Gun gag. Just as RLP says fook Ice, or fascist whatevers, a mispelling even....no scratch the last one, that would make it definitely planted.

[SkStu]

Motive is something that is being assumed based on a dodgy photo from a very dodgy guy. Anti Ice is a bit of a weird thing to write on a bullet that just happens to be left around. If it was fcuk ICE it would be more believable.

Im sorry, I just dont trust a single thing that comes from a single person in this administration

That's a reasonable position to take but there have been a few attacks on ICE and other law enforcement over the last 9 months and more so I am going to lean away from the conspiracy angle on this one. Like, what's the realistic alternative here?

[SkStu]

It's just too convenient. Its like somebody said I hope there is anti Ice evidence and somebody put anti- Ice evidence on the bullets ala a Naked Gun gag. Just as RLP says fook Ice, or fascist whatevers, a mispelling even....no scratch the last one, that would make it definitely planted.

People were saying it was just too convenient that Kirks assassin left his rifle where it could be found, that there was antifascist memeology on the ammo etc etc...sometimes (most of the time) it just is what it is.

[Razors left peg]

That's a reasonable position to take but there have been a few attacks on ICE and other law enforcement over the last 9 months and more so I am going to lean away from the conspiracy angle on this one. Like, what's the realistic alternative here?

Well the only ones killed were detainees

[Nesta99]

Ok fair points. Atacks on ICE or any law enforcement during crackdowns even in the most balanced of administrations would be expected and not classed as an ideological 'war'. But it does show the generalised lack of trust. After the Kirk murder, very quickly, without any evidence there were shouts of being under attack by the radical left. I think this was the basis for the Kimmel issues, he was countering this by inferring that the killer came from within a conservative community. or one of the rights own.

I mostly agree with the whole occam's razor thing, I dont run with conspiracy. But eg on covid I didnt run with the lab based pathogen release, it was an insterspecies transmission, I believed the published materiel and I was wrong. When issues with the astrazenica vaccine in young people were flagged it was unfortunate stats that in large scale rollouts there will always be a small cohort who have adverse reactions as with any drug, but the numbers now are looking like the red flags were warranted and ignored so I was wrong. Even fecking the whole JFK stuff I denied the conspiracy really, people see what they want to see....well he offical finding seem a stretch.

I am now questioning things a whole lot more in recent times. Im not so sure that occams razor applies so much depending on where and what. Its not cynicism, its speculation on whether evidence is legit and the balance of likelihood has changed - unlikely to be planted to possible. Im willing to accept either, when evidence is 'tested' by forensics or in investigation/court/crononer, but an awful lot of people have already decided one way or another which in itself is scary.

It feels dodge but thats not scientific, it feels ridiculously convenient so it might be real.

[SkStu]

Well the only ones killed were detainees

so you think that it was an anti-immigrant shooting and the authorities are engaged in an active cover up and deceiving the public? Fair enough - but its conspiracy theory territory, Razor.

[Razors left peg]

so you think that it was an anti-immigrant shooting and the authorities are engaged in an active cover up and deceiving the public? Fair enough - but its conspiracy theory territory, Razor.

No I dont Stu, all Im saying that the immediate jump to blame another "lefty lunatic" that is coming from Republicans over here again is a problem. The head of the FBI live tweeting evidence when he doesnt know the full picture at the time is cause for concern, hell just having the head of the FBI having such an open agenda is concerning tbh.

[SkStu]

Is it just the Republicans/Right/Conservative that engage in that jumping, Razor? I'm playing devils advocate a bit - as i agree - but all sides in America are doing it...both sides cant f*cking wait to blame the other...whether in/out of power. You will get that agenda / point scoring with a position that is a political appointee. Its the system y'all signed up for.

[Razors left peg]

Is it just the Republicans/Right/Conservative that engage in that jumping, Razor? I'm playing devils advocate a bit - as i agree - but all sides in America are doing it...both sides cant f*cking wait to blame the other...whether in/out of power. You will get that agenda / point scoring with a position that is a political appointee. Its the system y'all signed up for.


Stu do you not think its a problem when the head of the FBI is tweeting pictures of evidence right after something happens? I have never seen that sort of thing ever happen before. Trump was literally talking about how he hates his opponents the other day, again I have never seen that ever happen from a President in the past on either side. You have Jesse Waters on Fox News this week saying that the UN building should be blown up because the escalator and teleprompter didnt work for Trump. Last week the FCC forced Kimmell off the air, because in Trumps own words it should be illegal to criticize him so much. Every day there is something new that I could add to this list.

So no I dont think this is both sides are the same and one is as bad as the other.

[SkStu]

You just keep changing the goalposts of the argument and its getting difficult to keep up...

For what its worth - Hoover, Comey - two examples off the top of my head of FBI Directors who played their own political game for their own ends or the interests of their overlords. What happened yesterday is so far down the list of awful or questionable actions perpetrated by that office over the last 100 years. I agreed with you more than once that it is political gamesmanship and that it is problematic but its the system you lot have and seem to live happily with until the wrong side does something.

All i said was that it had no evidentiary value as the person had shot himself after you tried to claim it would taint evidence...remember that's how this sliver of conversation started.

Trump saying he hates his opponents - wrong.
Jesse Waters saying blow up the UN - wrong.
FCC forcing Kimmel off the air - wrong.
What Clinton said about black people / super predators or whatever - wrong.
Kathy Griffin holding up a severed head of Trump - wrong.
Kimmels comments about Kirk - wrong.

"duh racist" and "duh libtard" as the default reaction to every incident or default position on every topic. Wrong.

In America, both sides of the political aisle/discourse have proven themselves to be as bad as each other.

[Razors left peg]

I dont see how I was moving the goalposts, but I havent the energy to argue that both sides are not the same if thats what you really think. I would have thought its pretty clear that what is happening under the current administration is unprecedented and the country will suffer for a long time because of it. Id actually probably say that right now the Democrats are not being strong enough in their opposition and calling out the bullsh1t

[SkStu]

The current administration is a complete pox. Its disgusting. American society is a disgrace to the word civilization and both sides of the political aisle can take an equal share of the blame for that, going back decades. Those statements can and should live beside each other.

[Razors left peg]

Thats something I can agree with

[dahamsta]

Anyone else still seeing ads? I'm not, but Google does "automatic ads" now and I could have left some code behind that allows them to continue injecting ads. I can't close the account until they pay out the pay few quid

[Nesta99]

I'm not, since they were done away with.

[Razors left peg]

Im still seeing them, maybe its a location thing?

[SkStu]

not seeing them

[samhaydenjr]

You just keep changing the goalposts of the argument and its getting difficult to keep up...

For what its worth - Hoover, Comey - two examples off the top of my head of FBI Directors who played their own political game for their own ends or the interests of their overlords. What happened yesterday is so far down the list of awful or questionable actions perpetrated by that office over the last 100 years. I agreed with you more than once that it is political gamesmanship and that it is problematic but its the system you lot have and seem to live happily with until the wrong side does something.

All i said was that it had no evidentiary value as the person had shot himself after you tried to claim it would taint evidence...remember that's how this sliver of conversation started.

Trump saying he hates his opponents - wrong.
Jesse Waters saying blow up the UN - wrong.
FCC forcing Kimmel off the air - wrong.
What Clinton said about black people / super predators or whatever - wrong.
Kathy Griffin holding up a severed head of Trump - wrong.
Kimmels comments about Kirk - wrong.

"duh racist" and "duh libtard" as the default reaction to every incident or default position on every topic. Wrong.

In America, both sides of the political aisle/discourse have proven themselves to be as bad as each other.

Just on the point of what Kimmel said, Stu, I want to note that he said nothing about Kirk's murder itself, except to express horror and sadness. The comments that were touted as a reason to suspend him were when he pointed our that the Right was scrambling to portray the guy arrested as having nothing to do with them (they were) and said that the Right would use it as an opportunity to score political points, which they clearly did when they forced him off the air.

[SkStu]

Yes! Sam, you are right. Sorry, I was rushing in quite a few of my posts yesterday as i was distracted at work so my wording was a bit sloppy alright. I said at the time (and I think on here?) that the decision to take him off the air was absolutely ridiculous and wrong... even though I do believe the comments he made about the situation were also wrong - not helpful.

[Razors left peg]

Watching the Ryder Cup gives a better understanding of how Trump gets elected. The American crowd are absolutely obnoxious bellends

[osarusan]

Watching the Ryder Cup gives a better understanding of how Trump gets elected. The American crowd are absolutely obnoxious bellends

Both Europe and USA as hosts have been happy to ratchet up the 'engagement' with crowds to develop a more gladiatorial atmospehere. Remember the exhuberance that greeted Mahan's duffed chip about 15 years ago.

We now have McIlroy shouting at the crowd to f**k off....grim stuff.

[CraftyToePoke]

You chaps need to watch some Mosconi Cup from the 90s on YouTube :D:D
As fcuked as America is, this crowd / participant interaction in USA v Europe isn't new, we can't blame the Donald for this one.

I would say search an early 90s Jimmy White / Alex Higgins doubles match particularly, both so visibly coked they actually could not sit down when the Americans had the table. And winning. And laughing hard at everything American throughout including the audience.

[Razors left peg]

You chaps need to watch some Mosconi Cup from the 90s on YouTube :D:D
As fcuked as America is, this crowd / participant interaction in USA v Europe isn't new, we can't blame the Donald for this one.

I would say search an early 90s Jimmy White / Alex Higgins doubles match particularly, both so visibly coked they actually could not sit down when the Americans had the table. And winning. And laughing hard at everything American throughout including the audience.

I don't blame Donald at all for the cretins at the Ryder Cup, Im blame those type for why we have the Donald